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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/26 17:53:29
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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Fluff-wise they were supposed to have a superior gene seed hand picked by the emperor himself (take that however you like). They were supposed to be given the best equipment and trained be better than normal marines. Thew were not psykers per se but rather resistant to the influence of chaos and able to stand toe-to-toe with daemons on any battleground.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/26 18:22:52
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Why do you need a superior gene seed, when you can just use a bigger gun, lol?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/26 18:43:53
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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Unit1126PLL wrote:I'm still not sure what people mean when they say "standalone army" anymore.
Inquisition had a codex in 6th and 7th and has a faction and army list in 8th, but I would never call them standalone.
"Imperial Agents" was a codex in 7th and was also not a standalone army.
"Standalone army" seems like a naff term in 8th edition. It's 5th edition leaking into 8th. Even my "Imperial Guard" army includes a Mechanicus detachment, and the fact that my Sororitas army doesn't include any other detachment is actively weakening it.
I know that this is a bit off-track but codices in 7e didn’t have the same connotation as codices in other editions, partially because GW decided to push out as many as possible as a cash grab and partially because the ally system meant that half factions were a thing. Remember when Scions/ MT got a codex with like 4 units in it? Remember when AdMech got split into two codices? Remember when Imperial Agents wasn’t a codex for a faction, per se, but for about 10 different mini-factions, some with only one or two units? “Having a codex in 7e” isn’t a good precedent for being a full army.
Anyway back on track it does seem like the GK codex was low-effort and the Custodes got some time out into them making them usable. Maybe it’s because GK were translated from previous rules using a defective formula and the new Custodes stuff had to have rules written from scratch?
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40k drinking game: take a shot everytime a book references Skitarii using transports.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/27 01:40:58
Subject: Re:Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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No we mean “better than rerolling a dice” ones
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 17:50:33
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Guarded Grey Knight Terminator
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Amishprn86 wrote:Im not a GK player, but i feel sorry for you, not b.c of Custodes, but b.c your Codex is trash.
ty. Our codex is trash, and Custodes are just a kick in the face of what the Grey Knights were supposed to be. That highly elite army. I may try out my grey knights as Custodes for a bit just to see how much different they play on table top.
Custodes are what I would have loved to see for my paladins. They are 3 points cheaper than paladins with +1 bs, +1 ws, +1 str, +1 tough with close combat weapon that is +1str ap -3 vs the paladins +1 str ap -2. their gun is only rapid fire 1, but has Ap-1 to make up for it (I call this a wash with their bs 2+)... and they have access to storm shields. . . . AND THEY ARE TROOPS!
Paladins have over Custodian guard... psyker. Which in an army that is full of psykers has a hard diminishing return. Also, GW over values psykers in our codex. Honestly to have the paladin's price tag, they need to have the stat line of a custodian, the weapons of the paladins that equal to a custodian, and still be psyker.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/28 18:32:06
"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus
If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 19:52:43
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Fixture of Dakka
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WOW.. they are that much better for cheaper? WTF?!?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 19:56:12
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I agree. It makes no sense that gold armour is cheaper than silver armour.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 20:04:55
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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To play devils advocate, GK Paladins are much more resilient to psychic mortal wound spamming than Custodes. Custodes really can't rely on the 6 FnP to psychic powers ability they have as much as GK can rely on Deny the Witch, which also helps prevent other potentially devastating psychic powers (3++ rerollable invuls?). I don't know what the point cost for that would be, but it's at least a... silver... lining? Also, comparing Paladins to standard Custodes Guardians, the Paladins get Deep Strike included as well. Between the psychic capabilities and DS, there is a noticeable difference. Is it worth the pricing between the two? I don't know.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/28 20:25:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 20:55:43
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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With the psychic changes to smite spam.
That plus is actually useless.
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SHUPPET wrote:
wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 21:10:57
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Water-Caste Negotiator
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Galas wrote:GK should drop all in game bonuses vs Daemons, keep that to the fluff.
This. I've been saying this for a while now and you're the first one to agree.
Make some Narrative Play -rules for daemon hunting, let me hunt everything with my shiny, mind-bullet shooting, sword swinging marines.
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-Heresy grows from idleness- |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 22:08:29
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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I'm new to playing grey knights but I gotta say having a blob with 3 paladins an apothacarey, a paladin ancient with the relic banner and a Brother captain, is a really strong alpha strike.
I'm still super confused why strike teams don't have 2 attacks base. Aren't grey knights veterans taken from other chapters?
Also if custodes are cheaper than paladins then I don't see how they can justify their price point
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 22:13:57
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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fraser1191 wrote:
I'm still super confused why strike teams don't have 2 attacks base. Aren't grey knights veterans taken from other chapters?
That's Deathwatch. Grey Knights are their own Chapter.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 22:14:25
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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Grey Knights don't take people from other SM chapters. So the Vets are GK vets.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/28 23:22:24
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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AlmightyWalrus wrote: fraser1191 wrote:
I'm still super confused why strike teams don't have 2 attacks base. Aren't grey knights veterans taken from other chapters?
That's Deathwatch. Grey Knights are their own Chapter.
Ah well there it is
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 00:33:02
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Quickjager wrote:With the psychic changes to smite spam.
That plus is actually useless.
The plus I said had nothing to do with Smite and more with psychic defense. With baby Smite, Paladins shouldn't be Smiting much, if at all. They should be using powers like Hammer Hand or Gate.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 02:06:40
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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It has everything to do with Smite, as less smite is going to be going out, so there is less value.Which means the only faction who is even vaguely threatening in the psychic phase is Thousands Sons.
Don't you DARE even get me or any other GK player started on how dumb the rule of one for psychic powers is.
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SHUPPET wrote:
wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 02:22:32
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Guarded Grey Knight Terminator
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Fueli wrote: Galas wrote:GK should drop all in game bonuses vs Daemons, keep that to the fluff.
This. I've been saying this for a while now and you're the first one to agree.
Make some Narrative Play -rules for daemon hunting, let me hunt everything with my shiny, mind-bullet shooting, sword swinging marines.
Honestly, re-rolling to wound to demons is nice, but that could be accomplished if we had a lieutenant type buff, like every other chapter has...or if our chaplins gave that buff... or our brother captains. Etc.
Honestly, my favorite anti-demon buff is our psyker. I can very much so shut down a psychic phase. That is nice. But if Grey Knights had a chapter tactic, it is the fact that we are all psykers.
To continue the trend of OMG custodes put grey knights to shame...
Lets compare HQs
Shield Captain vs Grey Knight Grand Master
Shield captain (in terminator armor) is 20 points cheaper than a Grand master, +1 wounds, +1 str, +1T, +1" move, and his rerolls to 1 within 6 inches is for more effective when your entire codex hits on a 2+.
Psyker vs Aegis of the Emperor
Shield Captain on a jet bike is still 2 points cheaper than a grand master - it has that baller reroll failed wound on charge weapon (coupled with reroll 1s to hit), +2T, +1W, +1 str, and +9" movement and a rapid fire 6 bolter vs a rapid fire 2 one. Loses deep strike. Psyker vs Aegis.
That Vexillus Praetor vs Paladin Ancient
this is a different comparison. Praetor has a few different options. To do what the ancient does costs the same (12 points more than a brother ancient). ok besides the stat boosts addressed earlier, that almost made it better except, they can take an upgrade for... less... points... (making them 20 points cheaper) to give a -1 to hit aura. This helps to offset the major Elite infantry army draw back... losing bodies. I would love to have that on my GK. and its cheaper? I would actually take a brother/paladin ancient with that!
Ugh, so much salt for what they got for cheaper.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quickjager wrote:It has everything to do with Smite, as less smite is going to be going out, so there is less value.Which means the only faction who is even vaguely threatening in the psychic phase is Thousands Sons.
Don't you DARE even get me or any other GK player started on how dumb the rule of one for psychic powers is.
Oh you got me started! 2x hammer hand a turn is just SOOOO op. lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hoodwink wrote: Quickjager wrote:With the psychic changes to smite spam.
That plus is actually useless.
The plus I said had nothing to do with Smite and more with psychic defense. With baby Smite, Paladins shouldn't be Smiting much, if at all. They should be using powers like Hammer Hand or Gate.
I agree, but the Rule of One really limits it. Now I have to pick n choose who uses hammerhand. And if another unit has hammerhand, guess what... now they are casting the diminishing returns baby smite. Its a nerf to a codex that did not need a nerf.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
fraser1191 wrote:
I'm still super confused why strike teams don't have 2 attacks base. Aren't grey knights veterans taken from other chapters?
Besides the wrong codex reference... there is still much debate as to why our purifiers (not the strike teams) don't have 2 attacks base. Them only having 1 attack essentially nerfed (last edition they had 2) the unit to a point where they cannot be used. Which is sad, I really like purifiers. Their 3" smite is a pain to use tho.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/01/29 03:16:04
"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus
If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 03:00:46
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator
California
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I think it was a major overcorrection mostly based on the Psychic Phase, but they were one of the first Codexes to test the waters (Psychic Spell focus I mean). Unfortunately being an Elite Army their point costs were already set to the higher side, and adding easier access to various spells probably made them harder to tune.
Personally I think the Daemon Focus should not be used to set costs, and I believe it is a nice bit of fluff added into the army. I would like to see more of these interactions across the board. In the grand scheme of things there are much less Daemon and Grey Knight players overall, so it is rare that anything is actually gained anyway.
Custodes sure do look nice, but I don't see them being a super overpowered force.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 03:14:19
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Guarded Grey Knight Terminator
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vyse.04 wrote:I think it was a major overcorrection mostly based on the Psychic Phase, but they were one of the first Codexes to test the waters (Psychic Spell focus I mean). Unfortunately being an Elite Army their point costs were already set to the higher side, and adding easier access to various spells probably made them harder to tune.
Personally I think the Daemon Focus should not be used to set costs, and I believe it is a nice bit of fluff added into the army. I would like to see more of these interactions across the board. In the grand scheme of things there are much less Daemon and Grey Knight players overall, so it is rare that anything is actually gained anyway.
Custodes sure do look nice, but I don't see them being a super overpowered force.
No, they wont be over powered... they will suffer from the same issues Grey knights do. They will just do a better job at it. There are things that the grey knights do have over the custodes. Just really would like to see a price adjustment.
And reroll wounds in close combat vs demons is nice, 3 wound smite is great. Just don't like paying for those rules when I am fighting necrons, tau, etc.. I agree, just call psyker + reroll wounds v demons in CC our chapter tactic. Bloodangels and Ravenguard still have a stronger chapter tactic.
Not to mention, Demon players can just resurrect units grey knights kill now. Demon complaints should be offset by that alone.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/29 03:18:39
"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus
If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 06:03:41
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation
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its pretty heartning to hear other players habe the exact same problems and gripes that i do. nothing agasint AC, but for real grey knigths eiyher need a huge amount of buffs, or tons of point reductions.
i just want a small force of super paladins, but we are weaker than custodes, and way worse at casting powers than pretty much everyone , TS, eldar.
if anyone is interested i did write ups ome home brew rules to make grey knights suck less. so if you guys want your knights of titan to be really fun to play in a freindly game these are perfect, if you want them let me knoiw and ill post them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 06:14:22
Subject: Re:Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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at the end of the day what grey knights NEED is an 8.5 codex
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 11:39:05
Subject: Re:Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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/thread
The concept that GW has thought up for psyker-heavy armies at the start of the edition obviously didn't work. If TS works better (which is basically working like Eldar), GW needs to apply that concept to Grey Knights as well, in a new codex.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 14:31:00
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Smokin' Skorcha Driver
London UK
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For my GK I thought the last straw was the change to Smite. Gk at the very least should have exemption from this, however the real last straw is the stratagem in the Daemons dex that allows them to bring back a daemon unit killed by a GK unit.
The existence of this strat in daemons dex does imply that GK are here to stay at least.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/29 14:47:42
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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As the butt of a joke. One daemon to another- Doesn't it just kill you to fight Grey Knights? Yes, but then I get better.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/01/30 13:27:02
Subject: Re:Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Agreed. At this point, too much needs to be reworked for chapter approved/errata to be the solution.
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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/02/01 04:57:42
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Quickjager wrote:It has everything to do with Smite, as less smite is going to be going out, so there is less value.Which means the only faction who is even vaguely threatening in the psychic phase is Thousands Sons.
Don't you DARE even get me or any other GK player started on how dumb the rule of one for psychic powers is.
Necessary after the dumpster fire of 7th.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/02/01 22:07:51
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
McCragge
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GK main purpose is to fight daemons and that they do that rather well now, right?
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Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/02/01 22:11:28
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Bounding Assault Marine
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Primark G wrote:GK main purpose is to fight daemons and that they do that rather well now, right?
They kill daemons fine, but daemons can now resurrect themselves when killed by Grey Knights for CP. Not super great.
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2500 pts Raven Guard, painted |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/02/01 22:52:05
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
McCragge
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That is very fluffy for daemons though so it makes sense to me.
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Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/02/02 00:20:43
Subject: Any other grey knights players salty about the Custodes rules?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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how is "Can ressurect themselves when killed by dedicated demon slayers who specificly know how to banish demons" fluffy?
the strat is a throw back to a set of rules that allow deamons some power quirks when fighting a GK army, problem is GKs are only moderately effective against them now if GKs where as good vs deamons at they where in say 5th edition, where they had a TON of special anti demon rules... then sure, now? now that start is kinda insulting
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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