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I'm normally not one for Doom and gloom, but the Tau codex announcement actually has me rather worried. I'm probably reading far too much into it, but it seems very much like they're addressing concerns from outside rather than inside.
By which I mean the "good news, everyone" announcement is that commander spam will be addressed. Not that Tau are getting a solid look over to make sure things work right, not that they'll be making commanders act like... Actual commanders instead of suicidal assassins. It seemed very much like assuring non Tau players that they won't have to worry about it anymore, rather than assuring Tau players they can actually play something else at higher levels.
Because, there's two big ways to "address commander spam", increase the effectiveness of the rest of the army so that they're not entirely reliant on the crutch that commanders have become, or reduce the effectiveness of commanders so that they're not taken... I fear that if they do the later without at least doing a bit of both, that there won't be any reason to play Tau at all. I mean, they're already a highly specialized shooting army that can be outgunned by several other factions.
But... Here's hoping I'm just paranoid and reading far too much into the statement.
The better way to adress Commanders would be to just remove Supreme Command Detachment from the game system.
However, I am sure Tau would get at least up to 25% point decrease on everything, especially vehicles and some weapon choices. Even their core troops, which are quite solid, don't look that hot in comparison to, say AM Skitarii Rangers which are everything like Firewarriors, but better in many ways and cheaper.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/26 16:40:23
More big toys.
More new stuff for Ao$ too.
All the while letting the base rot with NO new models,
no updates, just codex creep to push out of date bs until they replace it all with the flavor of the month next year.
Donkey carrot stick.
Tired of pulling these lugz' wagon.
.
Good newz! Xenos codexes! And done.
No orks. No real story advance. No attention to marginal factions
- just Girlyman and Stormcaste fraternals with their new BBC BFFs Goldencaste fraternals cuz, NEW PLASTIC!
.
For the rest of yooz,
lookin to move forward on your new codex with no new model support?
Buy some new Ao$ models to convert for your 40k stuff that you know you want but aren't gonna get made.
Next year this time, new 40k faction - Sisters of Corn! Newish Ao$ plastics with magic pistols that do everything that DE wyches ever did but better, cuz you know, NEW PLASTIC for the profit gods.
Meh.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/26 16:43:17
More big toys.
More new stuff for Ao$ too.
All the while letting the base rot with NO new models,
no updates, just codex creep to push out of date bs until they replace it all with the flavor of the month next year.
Donkey carrot stick.
Tired of pulling these lugz' wagon.
As time passes, I see GW for what it is.
Sure, I watch and wait,
but I have learned my lesson.
Good newz! Xenos codexes! And done.
Buy some new Ao$ models to convert for your 40k stuff that you know you want but aren't gonna get made.
Next year this time, new 40k faction - Sisters of Khorne! Newish Ao$ plastics with magic pistols that do everything that DE ever did but better, cuz you know, NEW PLASTIC for the profit gods.
Gw can rot.
Oh, I am not going anywhere I am not givin GW money until they do something right.
Until then, I tell it like it is.
New Coke ain't Old Coke, not by a long shot.
Those that think New Coke is good, great.
Good for you/them.
Swill, fetid swill.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 16:46:23
Deadawake1347 wrote: I'm normally not one for Doom and gloom, but the Tau codex announcement actually has me rather worried. I'm probably reading far too much into it, but it seems very much like they're addressing concerns from outside rather than inside.
By which I mean the "good news, everyone" announcement is that commander spam will be addressed. Not that Tau are getting a solid look over to make sure things work right, not that they'll be making commanders act like... Actual commanders instead of suicidal assassins. It seemed very much like assuring non Tau players that they won't have to worry about it anymore, rather than assuring Tau players they can actually play something else at higher levels.
Because, there's two big ways to "address commander spam", increase the effectiveness of the rest of the army so that they're not entirely reliant on the crutch that commanders have become, or reduce the effectiveness of commanders so that they're not taken... I fear that if they do the later without at least doing a bit of both, that there won't be any reason to play Tau at all. I mean, they're already a highly specialized shooting army that can be outgunned by several other factions.
But... Here's hoping I'm just paranoid and reading far too much into the statement.
I'm guessing what they actually mean is "we'll make sure Commanders aren't the auto-take unit they are now, and that other Tau units are actually worth taking as well". You see Commander/Drone spam because of their efficiency compared to everything else Tau can field, if they level out the playing field a bit then that's something to look forward to. Look at the transition Eldar made from Index to Codex. Almost all of their units were hot garbage. Some of them still are but the majority are now usable to a decent degree. I'd expect the same will happen to Tau, major points drops like Eldar will fix so many problems they have.
Oh, I am not going anywhere I am not givin GW money until they do something right.
Until then, I tell it like it is.
New Coke ain't Old Coke, not by a long shot.
Those that think New Coke is good, great.
Good for you/them.
Swill, fetid swill.
Oh, then you're welcome to stay, also, though it seems like much of your misery is self-inflicted.
If you won't buy anything, then can you expect to keep up with evolving times? I know my 3rd Edition Guard armoured company was lucky to fit 5 tanks on the field at the time, because games were like 1250-1500 and they were vastly more expensive. If I only owned five Leman Russes and never anything else, well... I suppose I'd be understandably upset in 4th, or 5th, or 6th, or 7th, or 8th, that GW wasn't keeping the old armies up to day.
40k players are the architects of their own misery.
It's good they're helping DE and Necrons. These factions need it, badly.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Deadawake1347 wrote: I'm normally not one for Doom and gloom, but the Tau codex announcement actually has me rather worried. I'm probably reading far too much into it, but it seems very much like they're addressing concerns from outside rather than inside.
By which I mean the "good news, everyone" announcement is that commander spam will be addressed. Not that Tau are getting a solid look over to make sure things work right, not that they'll be making commanders act like... Actual commanders instead of suicidal assassins. It seemed very much like assuring non Tau players that they won't have to worry about it anymore, rather than assuring Tau players they can actually play something else at higher levels.
Because, there's two big ways to "address commander spam", increase the effectiveness of the rest of the army so that they're not entirely reliant on the crutch that commanders have become, or reduce the effectiveness of commanders so that they're not taken... I fear that if they do the later without at least doing a bit of both, that there won't be any reason to play Tau at all. I mean, they're already a highly specialized shooting army that can be outgunned by several other factions.
But... Here's hoping I'm just paranoid and reading far too much into the statement.
I'm guessing what they actually mean is "we'll make sure Commanders aren't the auto-take unit they are now, and that other Tau units are actually worth taking as well". You see Commander/Drone spam because of their efficiency compared to everything else Tau can field, if they level out the playing field a bit then that's something to look forward to. Look at the transition Eldar made from Index to Codex. Almost all of their units were hot garbage. Some of them still are but the majority are now usable to a decent degree. I'd expect the same will happen to Tau, major points drops like Eldar will fix so many problems they have.
And I hope that's the case, I really do. That was basically what I meant when I said doing both, toning down what could be overly good while boosting the things that just aren't usable...
That being said, if that's what they meant there are a half dozen different ways that they could have made that far more clear. Which is the part that concerns me. Again, it feels like it was said by someone who plays against Tau instead of as them.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
I hope Tau sees minor balance tweaks. The last thing I want to see is another imperial guard running around, except highly mobile and with stronger shooting.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
tneva82 wrote: They are getting similar level of support to several imperial armies. But oh yeah they are xenos so they deserve special attention.
There are imperial armies who would be jealous of necron release support. Including ones with already codex.
That's a fair point and less a strawman.
The difference is that Dark Eldar can't just ally with Necrons if they like the look of the new Cryptek model unlike all of the Imperium armies. That's the issue, if I want to run the sexy new Primaris with my IG, I can within the rules. Xenos don't have this luxury.
Not sure which Imperial armies would be jealous of the single Necron model? Grey Knights maybe?
All Marines have had Primaris and lieutenants for specific Angels.
IG had Marbo of all things.
AdMech get their mini Knight.
Custodes are all new.
What army do you think would be jealous of the single, monopose, new xeno model.
tneva82 wrote: They are getting similar level of support to several imperial armies. But oh yeah they are xenos so they deserve special attention.
There are imperial armies who would be jealous of necron release support. Including ones with already codex.
That's a fair point and less a strawman.
The difference is that Dark Eldar can't just ally with Necrons if they like the look of the new Cryptek model unlike all of the Imperium armies. That's the issue, if I want to run the sexy new Primaris with my IG, I can within the rules. Xenos don't have this luxury.
Not sure which Imperial armies would be jealous of the single Necron model? Grey Knights maybe?
All Marines have had Primaris and lieutenants for specific Angels.
IG had Marbo of all things.
AdMech get their mini Knight.
Custodes are all new.
What army do you think would be jealous of the single, monopose, new xeno model.
You absolutely can bring a necron model with an eldar or tau army.
You can't in Matched Play, but Matched Play is silly in a lot of other ways too, and you can't assume that 'miniature releases' only are targeted at Matched Play styles.
The difference is that Dark Eldar can't just ally with Necrons if they like the look of the new Cryptek model unlike all of the Imperium armies. That's the issue, if I want to run the sexy new Primaris with my IG, I can within the rules. Xenos don't have this luxury.
That said blanket alliances aren't always a good thing. I think its always best to view armies as single entities. Sure you can take lots of allies as Imperials/Marines (and several of the smaller groups are almost made-to-be-allies by design or limited range); but in general the core armies are what they should be judged upon.
That said at present the ones to be jealous of are Nurgle
Oh, then you're welcome to stay, also, though it seems like much of your misery is self-inflicted.
If you won't buy anything, then can you expect to keep up with evolving times? I know my 3rd Edition Guard armoured company was lucky to fit 5 tanks on the field at the time, because games were like 1250-1500 and they were vastly more expensive. If I only owned five Leman Russes and never anything else, well... I suppose I'd be understandably upset in 4th, or 5th, or 6th, or 7th, or 8th, that GW wasn't keeping the old armies up to day.
40k players are the architects of their own misery.
I am working on airbrushing, atm.
Building my own storage/carry cases from foam core and hot glue
with spaces hand cut for tanks and walkers and so on all from memory foam,
to replace foam trays that are slow to pack and repack.
Strippin a chimera also got in trade, for the imp grd that will fit in with the inquisitorial force that i have been collecting for more than 20 years
Have 30 imp grd just built and have a few old metal characters to lead them, again with the air brush now under the brush.
Eldar are getting redone.
Have a couple old Eldar start collecting boxes to build, and the ones that have been effed with to strip a bit and/or repaint.
Add those to the harelquins that I bought when the harlies were released a couple years ago - like the bikes and skimmer, those were done well,
skipped the rest but used the chance to update my old metals and build some conversions.
Need to magnetize the stompa and build it a box, plus you know, foam core for everything.
Got the arms from an ork boyz box to convert a bunch of old fantasy orcs to 40k boys.
Got a Mantic terrain box to build out, a huge box, and a bunch of 40k terrain bits and pieces to add and base.
When that is all done, I have a couple tanks to finish painting to a higher standard,
some LOTS of stuff to have shipped over from the States to complete the assortment - old predator, really excited to get that here,
and GKs and SoBs to finish, too.
Metal shipping is huge, so.... Might let that stuff go to the ebay gods if my brother wants to list them else they will sit for another ten years.
Anyways, I have a lot on my plate atm.
If I buy anything, it will not be from GW.
China, trades, ebay.
Oh, and I am not miserable.
Far from it.
Disappointed, in humanity generally and especially bizniz people, but not miserable.
Perfectly happy to point out the obvious to those blinded by the rose colored glasses.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 17:27:23
tneva82 wrote: They are getting similar level of support to several imperial armies. But oh yeah they are xenos so they deserve special attention.
There are imperial armies who would be jealous of necron release support. Including ones with already codex.
That's a fair point and less a strawman.
The difference is that Dark Eldar can't just ally with Necrons if they like the look of the new Cryptek model unlike all of the Imperium armies. That's the issue, if I want to run the sexy new Primaris with my IG, I can within the rules. Xenos don't have this luxury.
Not sure which Imperial armies would be jealous of the single Necron model? Grey Knights maybe?
All Marines have had Primaris and lieutenants for specific Angels.
IG had Marbo of all things.
AdMech get their mini Knight.
Custodes are all new.
What army do you think would be jealous of the single, monopose, new xeno model.
You absolutely can bring a necron model with an eldar or tau army.
You can't in Matched Play, but Matched Play is silly in a lot of other ways too, and you can't assume that 'miniature releases' only are targeted at Matched Play styles.
The content seems to target narrative but the rules seem more bent on matched play.
What percentage of players do you think do not use matched play rules? It has to be tiny. Every narrative game i've ever seen uses matched play rules, for instance. The game is just super broken without those restrictions.
In 8th edition it seems like the game is absolutely targeting matched play almost exclusively.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
Deadawake1347 wrote:And I hope that's the case, I really do. That was basically what I meant when I said doing both, toning down what could be overly good while boosting the things that just aren't usable...
That being said, if that's what they meant there are a half dozen different ways that they could have made that far more clear. Which is the part that concerns me. Again, it feels like it was said by someone who plays against Tau instead of as them.
Tau are a challenging army to balance, unfortunately. I really hope they get it right. Honestly, given how amazingly they did with the Tyranid codex, I'm thinking they're certainly capable of getting it right this time. Mostly what they need are major points drops, the nice thing is that we don't have a good grasp of what their stratagems will be so they could surprise us with some really neat stuff.
Marmatag wrote:I hope Tau sees minor balance tweaks. The last thing I want to see is another imperial guard running around, except highly mobile and with stronger shooting.
Tau need some pretty major buffs as an overall faction to compete in 8th Edition. Ideally, every codex would be equivalent to Tyranids where virtually every unit is strong with some being slightly stronger than others but not invalidating those other choices. Thematically, a Tau army should not be spamming Drones and Commanders. Tau players don't want "ZOMG OP" they just want a nicely balanced codex. Of note is that the internal balance of the Tau has been garbage for several editions straight, so if GW can rectify that after so many failed attempts then they'll earn (more of) my respect.
Daedalus81 wrote: Yea, I give up on you Xenos players. You're getting three books in a row and you'll still nitpick everything.
I actually really appreciate that my primary army is getting a confirmed update soon, and that they are updating the character models to plastic.
That doesn't mean I can't critique aethestique choices the designers made. To me, the cryptek update looks rather confusing; its hard to tell what, exactly, its doing, or how it could be practical to have a large machine like that attached to its back that just sort of trails behind him. Likewise, in terms of structure I'm worried that the stem it's on isn't tough enough and might break, or its not balanced right, resulting in the damned thing tipping over when its touched by a light breeze. Like the plastic terradons. Which fall every. Goddamned. Time.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
tneva82 wrote: They are getting similar level of support to several imperial armies. But oh yeah they are xenos so they deserve special attention.
There are imperial armies who would be jealous of necron release support. Including ones with already codex.
That's a fair point and less a strawman.
The difference is that Dark Eldar can't just ally with Necrons if they like the look of the new Cryptek model unlike all of the Imperium armies. That's the issue, if I want to run the sexy new Primaris with my IG, I can within the rules. Xenos don't have this luxury.
Not sure which Imperial armies would be jealous of the single Necron model? Grey Knights maybe?
All Marines have had Primaris and lieutenants for specific Angels.
IG had Marbo of all things.
AdMech get their mini Knight.
Custodes are all new.
What army do you think would be jealous of the single, monopose, new xeno model.
You absolutely can bring a necron model with an eldar or tau army.
You can't in Matched Play, but Matched Play is silly in a lot of other ways too, and you can't assume that 'miniature releases' only are targeted at Matched Play styles.
The content seems to target narrative but the rules seem more bent on matched play.
What percentage of players do you think do not use matched play rules? It has to be tiny. Every narrative game i've ever seen uses matched play rules, for instance. The game is just super broken without those restrictions.
In 8th edition it seems like the game is absolutely targeting matched play almost exclusively.
The 'rules' and 'gameplay' and 'community' might be, but we're talking about miniature releases.
Do you think GW bases its miniature releases on Matched Play alone? Hell, not even it's book releases are focused on Matched Play alone.
I can't believe xenos are getting three codices in a row that is not fair. :(
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
Daedalus81 wrote: Yea, I give up on you Xenos players. You're getting three books in a row and you'll still nitpick everything.
I actually really appreciate that my primary army is getting a confirmed update soon, and that they are updating the character models to plastic.
That doesn't mean I can't critique aethestique choices the designers made. To me, the cryptek update looks rather confusing; its hard to tell what, exactly, its doing, or how it could be practical to have a large machine like that attached to its back that just sort of trails behind him. Likewise, in terms of structure I'm worried that the stem it's on isn't tough enough and might break, or its not balanced right, resulting in the damned thing tipping over when its touched by a light breeze. Like the plastic terradons. Which fall every. Goddamned. Time.
You should have seen these guys
All metal original hormagaunts - ALWAYS front heavy!
As for aesthetics I often find that some models look odd in "most" or standard photos, but look fantastic in person. Vis versa some models look great in photos, but never quite live up to their photographs in the flesh. The Cryptek might well be one of those cases where the model doesn't quite look right until you've got it in hand and see it in person.
I think it will be more interesting also when we see the rules for it and how it interacts with the spyders and scarabs in the army. Heck might be a fun one to put a few spare/extra scarabs onto the base along with its deadly spider assistant.
In my opinion, Tau should either have mobility or good shooting, but not both.
There is nothing more frustrating than playing against Tau. You will never catch them. If by some miracle you do, they'll just fly out of combat.
I really don't like Tau, at all. They're just not fun to play against.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
The IK looks interesting. We’ll have to see how it’s costed. More codices are always welcome, and if they take after Tyranids rather than GK then we might see some decently balanced rules. The Cryptek looks weird, but that might just be the paint job and the pose.
40k drinking game: take a shot everytime a book references Skitarii using transports.
Marmatag wrote: In my opinion, Tau should either have mobility or good shooting, but not both.
There is nothing more frustrating than playing against Tau. You will never catch them. If by some miracle you do, they'll just fly out of combat.
I really don't like Tau, at all. They're just not fun to play against.
The problem as it is now is that Tau don't really have good anything. They're a heavily dedicated shooting army with no melee, that can't win most fire fights, and their mobility is nearly non-existent after the loss of jump-shoot-jump. All jetpack models are now worse jump pack ones.
Although I can't help but find it amusing that you don't find it fun to play against. That's what I'm hearing now, and people are destroying my army without too much effort, unless I rely on the crutches that are commanders and drones. I've been playing Tau since fifth edition and not once before eighth have I ever have someone complaining about my army. But in eighth I basically have two options, win first turn through commanders hitting as much of the enemy line as possible... Or lose hard if I use any strategy aside from alpha strike. I want to play the game, not be shoehorned into one winning strategy with effectively one list.
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
~4100
~1660
