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How many Neophytes have you seen in tournament winning lists? How many lists have you seen Infantry squads?

Resipsa131 wrote:
How many Neophytes have you seen in tournament winning lists? How many lists have you seen Infantry squads?

How many armies in the game have access to Infantry Squads versus how many armies in the game have access to Neophytes?

The answer is like, 10 or 12 to two.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Man, I love comparing index armies with codex armies.

Sisters of Battle don't have <Order> traits so no one should.

Completely irrelevant to ppm discussions

Resipsa131 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Man, I love comparing index armies with codex armies.

Sisters of Battle don't have <Order> traits so no one should.

Completely irrelevant to ppm discussions

Not when those discussions surround the abilities a model has. After all, Sororitas have no <Order> abilities, so obviously they'll go up in PPM when they get them, just like every other codex did. Right? Right?

EDIT: Just in case I'm being unclear: no, PPM did not change despite models getting a whole host of new abilities every time their codex came out. In fact, in some codexes, the PPM went down.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:
How many Neophytes have you seen in tournament winning lists? How many lists have you seen Infantry squads?

How many armies in the game have access to Infantry Squads versus how many armies in the game have access to Neophytes?

The answer is like, 10 or 12 to two.

Great so you would expect out of 100 armies at LVO that you'd see some armies running Neophytes whereas most Imperium armies there had guardsmen.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:
How many Neophytes have you seen in tournament winning lists? How many lists have you seen Infantry squads?

How many armies in the game have access to Infantry Squads versus how many armies in the game have access to Neophytes?

The answer is like, 10 or 12 to two.

The actual army that has Neophytes uses Infantry Squads due to being able to take guard.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Man, I love comparing index armies with codex armies.

Sisters of Battle don't have <Order> traits so no one should.

Completely irrelevant to ppm discussions

Not when those discussions surround the abilities a model has. After all, Sororitas have no <Order> abilities, so obviously they'll go up in PPM when they get them, just like every other codex did. Right? Right?

EDIT: Just in case I'm being unclear: no, PPM did not change despite models getting a whole host of new abilities every time their codex came out. In fact, in some codexes, the PPM went down.

CA could have done that but they signaled no intention of doing so for index armies. SOB and their mechanics aren't compareable to GEQ units so I have no idea why you're bringing them up you might as well be arguing Inquistion

Resipsa131 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:
How many Neophytes have you seen in tournament winning lists? How many lists have you seen Infantry squads?

How many armies in the game have access to Infantry Squads versus how many armies in the game have access to Neophytes?

The answer is like, 10 or 12 to two.

Great so you would expect out of 100 armies at LVO that you'd see some armies running Neophytes whereas most Imperium armies there had guardsmen.

Imperium armies can't have neophytes, and there were 500 armies at LVO, and I'm sure if we could access the lists (which we can't for various unexplained reasons), we'd see some neophytes.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:
How many Neophytes have you seen in tournament winning lists? How many lists have you seen Infantry squads?

How many armies in the game have access to Infantry Squads versus how many armies in the game have access to Neophytes?

The answer is like, 10 or 12 to two.

The actual army that has Neophytes uses Infantry Squads due to being able to take guard.

I'd like to see some data for this. The local GSC player here doesn't use Guard because they don't get <Regiment> traits. Though they do get Stratagems, so I could see why someone might want to pick them over an Index-only list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Resipsa131 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Man, I love comparing index armies with codex armies.

Sisters of Battle don't have <Order> traits so no one should.

Completely irrelevant to ppm discussions

Not when those discussions surround the abilities a model has. After all, Sororitas have no <Order> abilities, so obviously they'll go up in PPM when they get them, just like every other codex did. Right? Right?

EDIT: Just in case I'm being unclear: no, PPM did not change despite models getting a whole host of new abilities every time their codex came out. In fact, in some codexes, the PPM went down.

CA could have done that but they signaled no intention of doing so for index armies. SOB and their mechanics aren't compareable to GEQ units so I have no idea why you're bringing them up you might as well be arguing Inquistion

CA could have done a lot of things.

And I am using SOB as an illustration of my point that Index armies do not have the utility, capability, rules, or overhauls that the codex armies got, so comparing an overhauled army with access to all its tools to the comparatively paltry and silly Index lists is going to make the Codex seem really good. Because it is.

You can you just replace the Regiment with Brood Brother. You take a couple company commanders and your infantry units. Because Company Commanders and Infantry squads are cheaper than Neophyte Squads in a separate detachment from your meat in GSC that you want to put in Cult Ambush.

Resipsa131 wrote:
You can you just replace the Regiment with Brood Brother. You take a couple company commanders and your infantry units. Because Company Commanders and Infantry squads are cheaper than Neophyte Squads in a separate detachment from your meat in GSC that you want to put in Cult Ambush.

Does Brood Brother get Regiment Traits? I'll tell my buddy. But yes, I play guard, I know how to do it. If they get Regiment Traits it will change his mind for sure, he's already kinda on the fence.

No they do not get regimental traits.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
No they do not get regimental traits.

Right yeah that's what I thought. So my buddy will keep not taking IG.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:
You can you just replace the Regiment with Brood Brother. You take a couple company commanders and your infantry units. Because Company Commanders and Infantry squads are cheaper than Neophyte Squads in a separate detachment from your meat in GSC that you want to put in Cult Ambush.

Does Brood Brother get Regiment Traits? I'll tell my buddy. But yes, I play guard, I know how to do it. If they get Regiment Traits it will change his mind for sure, he's already kinda on the fence.

No but its still cheaper to use them to fill out your list than neophytes.

Resipsa131 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:
You can you just replace the Regiment with Brood Brother. You take a couple company commanders and your infantry units. Because Company Commanders and Infantry squads are cheaper than Neophyte Squads in a separate detachment from your meat in GSC that you want to put in Cult Ambush.

Does Brood Brother get Regiment Traits? I'll tell my buddy. But yes, I play guard, I know how to do it. If they get Regiment Traits it will change his mind for sure, he's already kinda on the fence.

No but its still cheaper to use them to fill out your list than neophytes.

Right, though he asks more out of his units than being list-filler.

Sometimes that is all a unit does though - especially in detachments you're filling out for CP generation.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
Sometimes that is all a unit does though - especially in detachments you're filling out for CP generation.

Yes, that's right, which is why people who aren't looking for list-filler don't take that unit, and players who are looking for list-filler do. Player choice is a good thing!

What can Neophytes do that Infantry squads can do; Cult Ambush? So you are going to move up the map with your elite units and put your troops in ambush? Great maybe it works if he runs Cult LRBT but if he runs more than one you're better off taking a Spearhead of AM that get to take Orders and get Objective Secured. Maybe just Maybe your buddy loads up 30 Neophytes with shotguns and puts them with a Primus and banks his game on rolling a 5 or 6 on the ambush table but that's basically all or nothing.

I

Resipsa131 wrote:
What can Neophytes do that Infantry squads can do; Cult Ambush? So you are going to move up the map with your elite units and put your troops in ambush? Great maybe it works if he runs Cult LRBT but if he runs more than one you're better off taking a Spearhead of AM that get to take Orders and get Objective Secured. Maybe just Maybe your buddy loads up 30 Neophytes with shotguns and puts them with a Primus and banks his game on rolling a 5 or 6 on the ambush table but that's basically all or nothing.

I

He runs 2 Cult LRBTs, a couple of Grinders, a couple of the other tank things (transports), and puts 3 units of 20 (numbers vary with points but he tries to get 20) Genestealers in Cult Ambush with some characters, and a few neophytes/acolytes.

I will concede that Open Top Goliath Trucks would be a reason to take Neophytes.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Man, I love comparing index armies with codex armies.

Sisters of Battle don't have <Order> traits so no one should.

OTOH, Sisters players will find anything to get mad about...

Resipsa131 wrote:
What can Neophytes do that Infantry squads can do; Cult Ambush? So you are going to move up the map with your elite units and put your troops in ambush? Great maybe it works if he runs Cult LRBT but if he runs more than one you're better off taking a Spearhead of AM that get to take Orders and get Objective Secured. Maybe just Maybe your buddy loads up 30 Neophytes with shotguns and puts them with a Primus and banks his game on rolling a 5 or 6 on the ambush table but that's basically all or nothing.

I

Don't neophytes get more special/heavy weapons on a squad than us? He could be using them like some guard players like to use outflanking vets and SWS's.

Sisters are hands down the best remaining index army, and better than several codex armies. Just sayin.

Oh please GSC take Guard because they can spam mortars and have the best chaff in the game, and the best DS deny in the game.

This isn't some mystery. GSC would not take guard if guardsmen, mortars & artillery were appropriately priced.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Sisters are hands down the best remaining index army, and better than several codex armies. Just sayin.

Tau are performing overall better. But we already know Commanders are getting a nerf to the "one per detachment" rule.... I have heard this from multiple top bay area players.

 Marmatag wrote:
Oh please GSC take Guard because they can spam mortars and have the best chaff in the game, and the best DS deny in the game.

This isn't some mystery. GSC would not take guard if guardsmen, mortars & artillery were appropriately priced.

And Tyranids wouldn't take Genestealer Cult if Genestealers were better!

Am I doing it right? Because GSC basically have the same weapon options for the same point costs. Neophytes can take Mortars as well as Guard Squads can; both get the same usage out of them in squads.

However because of synergy(that word again!) between units in the lists, some seem to choose the 'better' version at all costs.

I think sisters are a stronger force overall than Tau. Proper screening shuts down Tau hard, and sisters are just like cockroaches swarming the objectives with cheap power armor and stormbolters.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Resipsa131 wrote:
What can Neophytes do that Infantry squads can do; Cult Ambush? So you are going to move up the map with your elite units and put your troops in ambush? Great maybe it works if he runs Cult LRBT but if he runs more than one you're better off taking a Spearhead of AM that get to take Orders and get Objective Secured. Maybe just Maybe your buddy loads up 30 Neophytes with shotguns and puts them with a Primus and banks his game on rolling a 5 or 6 on the ambush table but that's basically all or nothing.

I

Don't neophytes get more special/heavy weapons on a squad than us? He could be using them like some guard players like to use outflanking vets and SWS's.

Neopythes dont have Vet BS3 but yes, They can take a Heavy Weapon Team or take 2 Heavy mining weapons and can take 2 grenade launchers but not access to plasma or melta. The heavy mining weapons are basically half range and half damage versions of heavy weapon teams that collectively out cost heavy weapon teams. I.E. Heavy Mining Laser 19 points 24 Range S9 AP-3 D3 Damage Basically a Half Range Half Damage version of the LasCannon. It can be good when you cult ambush a Small unit along with a Magus on something like a LRBT If you can get close enough you can Manifest Mind Control and force the tank to shoot its own screen then you split your fire and shoot the screen and the Tank. But you can't do that with all of your units because you want to reserve your cult ambush spots for your elites.

*All of the Ork players pray to mork and gork* - Boyz become 1pt each, T8 S8 and 20A each! Every other troop gets 2+ invuln and move 30" with a range of 500" with 60d6 weapons and d90 weapons.

 lolman1c wrote:
*All of the Ork players pray to mork and gork* - Boyz become 1pt each, T8 S8 and 20A each! Every other troop gets 2+ invuln and move 30" with a range of 500" with 60d6 weapons and d90 weapons.

But your BS becomes a 7+ with no in-codex method for raising it...

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
*All of the Ork players pray to mork and gork* - Boyz become 1pt each, T8 S8 and 20A each! Every other troop gets 2+ invuln and move 30" with a range of 500" with 60d6 weapons and d90 weapons.

But your BS becomes a 7+ with no in-codex method for raising it...

Basically GW every edition since 3rd.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, the Russ isn't under 150, which is what you claimed. I don't know what you want me to say. "Yea, sure, 152 is under 150. also 2+2 is 5."

quit being pedantic. yes 152 > 150 No fething gak. it's also not significantly over 150, about 1% or so. let me spell it out for you:

CHEAP GIANT GUNS

Arguing that "hurr durr Technically 152 is over 150" is nothing more than technicalities and pedantics. What are you? a bureaucrat?

Remember folks being technically correct is NOT the best form of correct.