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My bad on the shield my eye have failed me once again.

Krennic doesn't make sense that he is part of the First Order and the Galactic Empire has already been dismantled because the Emperor has died. I think it means all Imperial ships, how could he call a ship an optimized proto-type to old Imperial Ships?

I'm assuming and hoping it will get FAQ'd or printed correctly

 Maddok_Death wrote:
Krennic doesn't make sense that he is part of the First Order and the Galactic Empire has already been dismantled because the Emperor has died. I think it means all Imperial ships, how could he call a ship an optimized proto-type to old Imperial Ships?

Huh? Krennic died before ANH, while the emperor was very much alive. There is no reason to believe that his ability does anything other than exactly what it says, or that an FAQ is ever going to change this. Krennic's condition applies to any Galactic Empire sub-faction ship, and may not be applied to First Order sub-faction ships.

Krennic is the villain from Rogue One Maddok_Death. He isn't from the sequel trilogy.

Must've mixed him up with Hux. Man... My Starwars memory is all messed up... forget I said anything.

5pts is a big chunk, but that's a huge boost to many builds of Imperial ace. I've been out of the loop for at least 3 waves so I don't know if such aces are viable right now.

hmm more titles, band aid fixes and conditions, not luring me back in I'm afraid, and where are my Resistance A-wings ?

I'll certainly admit now that the game could well do with a reset. 14 waves of releases over what will be 6 years? A bevy of new concepts in that time that could and maybe should be retroactively applied to earlier ships. Yeah, it's high time.

I'm not so sure how you'd best go about it though - card packs, new dials, base inserts - there's a lot of the FFG 'bumpf' to account for.

It worked for Malifaux, but I don't know FFG would be down with paper only updates.

Seriously, just proposing something like the objectives thingy could bring back sub-optimal ships.

I wish there was more 'mission' stuff in X-wing especially in the tourney scene. Instead of everything being death matches.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Seriously, just proposing something like the objectives thingy could bring back sub-optimal ships.

Maybe, but likely not. The ships that are good at standard games tend to be good at other formats too, and bad ships are still bad. You adjust the metagame a bit, but you aren't going to make bad ships good.

The real problem with trying to fix the game format without a full reboot is that there's way more than just balance issues. X-Wing has some massive complexity creep happening. New waves introduce new rules, which don't get applied back onto older ships even when they'd be appropriate. And in the absence of a full reboot FFG can only fix old ships by introducing new upgrade cards for them. Look at the T-65 buff, to fix the ship FFG has to add two new upgrade cards for it, one of them a double-sided card with the complexity of two upgrades. It works from a balance point of view, but it really takes away from one of the game's former strengths: the design elegance that made it really accessible to new players.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Seriously, just proposing something like the objectives thingy could bring back sub-optimal ships.

Maybe, but likely not. The ships that are good at standard games tend to be good at other formats too, and bad ships are still bad. You adjust the metagame a bit, but you aren't going to make bad ships good.

The real problem with trying to fix the game format without a full reboot is that there's way more than just balance issues. X-Wing has some massive complexity creep happening. New waves introduce new rules, which don't get applied back onto older ships even when they'd be appropriate. And in the absence of a full reboot FFG can only fix old ships by introducing new upgrade cards for them. Look at the T-65 buff, to fix the ship FFG has to add two new upgrade cards for it, one of them a double-sided card with the complexity of two upgrades. It works from a balance point of view, but it really takes away from one of the game's former strengths: the design elegance that made it really accessible to new players.

I agree, the game is a travesty of a money pit at this point. I have stopped introducing people, or even actively playing the game. It is hard to tell a player who wants to run say, a TIE Interceptor that he needs the expansion, Imperial Aces, and the Starviper to make his Interceptor even worth fielding.

The game is so hard to buy into now, with how scattered the upgrades and fixes are.

But it is easy to show them a webpage where you can download the cards and print as many as you want. If They are then keen enough to go hard-core tournamenting then they will at that point know what they are getting themselves into.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I wish there was more 'mission' stuff in X-wing especially in the tourney scene. Instead of everything being death matches.

Yeah, we did the Aturi cluster co-op campaign (a couple of times) and that was great fun. I'd like to see more of that sort of stuff officially supported. Even a book or two of missions that have objectives beyond "death match" would bring a lot of life back to the game for me.

I think it'd open up the meta more too.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Seriously, just proposing something like the objectives thingy could bring back sub-optimal ships.

Maybe, but likely not. The ships that are good at standard games tend to be good at other formats too, and bad ships are still bad. You adjust the metagame a bit, but you aren't going to make bad ships good.

The real problem with trying to fix the game format without a full reboot is that there's way more than just balance issues. X-Wing has some massive complexity creep happening. New waves introduce new rules, which don't get applied back onto older ships even when they'd be appropriate. And in the absence of a full reboot FFG can only fix old ships by introducing new upgrade cards for them. Look at the T-65 buff, to fix the ship FFG has to add two new upgrade cards for it, one of them a double-sided card with the complexity of two upgrades. It works from a balance point of view, but it really takes away from one of the game's former strengths: the design elegance that made it really accessible to new players.

I introduced a new player a couple of weeks ago, across the language barrier too, and he flew a very simple list of Baby Blues while I tried to man-handle a TIE swarm. Aside from the fact that it was a 2 and a half hours slog because of constant interruptions, he picked up the basic rules quite handily and has joined the community. The core sets are still well designed for this purpose. The conplexity escalates much more quickly (much quicker?) than it did back when I joined just pre-wave 7, true, but since the totally of the rules, cards and ship texts are available online for free (rather than having to buy a 50$ book per faction, say) keeps it open to anyone.

The rest of your paragraph remains a very valid critique of the game at this point. I do wish Segnor's Loops and Tallon Rolls would make it onto older ships, and other mechanics such as reload were incorporated into the core of the game. What are the odds though?

I thought we never told you the odds ?

I suspect we won't see any changes unless FFG largely abandons the strange LCG mentality and goes full digital

 Stormonu wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I wish there was more 'mission' stuff in X-wing especially in the tourney scene. Instead of everything being death matches.

Yeah, we did the Aturi cluster co-op campaign (a couple of times) and that was great fun. I'd like to see more of that sort of stuff officially supported. Even a book or two of missions that have objectives beyond "death match" would bring a lot of life back to the game for me.

Though we have gotten really far afield here, I agree 100% with this. Even if FFG just released a PDF of the missions they have already made it would be a start. They managed to make the campaign pack for Armada so why is it so difficult to do the same for x-wing?
That said though I wonder how many people actually look for the alternate formats and not just 100/6 deathmatch, I asked around at the last SC about trying Epic, hangar bay, missions, 35pt furball etc. and most people have never tried it and many were not even willing to try because of how much it shifts what is good and bad.

but stick a couple of popular cards and/or a re-skin or two to sell to both 'casual' and 'hardcore' and a mission/campaign box might shift

Yeah mate indeed, I have already seen the cards. In Spoilers because they are not part of the release.

hehe, thats me back in then, have an exult

Whereas in my meta, we're all about alternate formats for events. We'll have Q-kits, SC and Regionals, but in November it was generics/no doubles, now it's objectives, last month it was furballs. We have an Epic league that is three editions old now.

Turnip Jedi wrote:hehe, thats me back in then, have an exult

Glad you approve, I love Strange Eons!

Mathieu Raymond wrote:Whereas in my meta, we're all about alternate formats for events. We'll have Q-kits, SC and Regionals, but in November it was generics/no doubles, now it's objectives, last month it was furballs. We have an Epic league that is three editions old now.

No. That's not true... That's impossible!

Ehm.

Sorry about that, how are you all finding it? Epic especially? I love the fact that it really mixes things up and what is excellent in 100/6 is crap and vice versa. I think my most hated thing to face is three Gold Ys with Ion bombs and cannons especially when they are going after my C-Roc, more importantly though have you ever seen anyone play 4 IG88?

Suppose we really should be starting a new thread by now...

Well to bring it back to the release at hand, somehow:

The U-wing is a cheap, fast ship that still totes a three dice attack, it might be good in Epic.

Having a slew of X-wing on the table would just fill the cockles, or even slightly below the cockles, with happiness.

So....





That certainly LOOKS like they fixed it.

So it's now a cut price T70 with all the good pilots dropping 3 pts?

Might be time to actually do something with a rebel force, I do like the X-Wings in that color, and U Wings are cool.

And most importantly you get to shout "lock s-foils in attack position" with some actual meaning during your games

And they move!!!!!

My personal reservation is that too many X Wing pilots have mediocre pilot skill and the game is still either spam low PS ships or take aces, with one or two exceptions.

None of this in any way hurts the T65, but I'm not sure it does enough to shift it out of the place where it was either.

But then I think I've only played one game in 2018, so it's quite possible I've overlooked something.

Seems like a good expansion, nothing meta shattering jumps out so far.
Porting over the rest of the cards;

Unimpressed with the pilots, but the upgrade cards look pretty good.

Actually, I take that back for Kullbee. With both the upgrade cards, and a 1pt integrated mech (Flight--assist astromech, probably), he ends up at 25pt. He gets VI for free, so will actually be very maneuverable. Not amazing, but I think that he has potential as a cheap 3rd ship.