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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Just curious if anyone is against "counts as" characters. Basically, you use the existing rules as written for something that doesn't belong in the setting as established. For example, you're a cyborg from a scifi setting who somehow got teleported to this fantasy world and you're using a warforged artificer to simulate the tech. Nothing different in the rules but rather just how they're reflected in the game.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

I'm doing pretty much that at the moment, using the Bugbear race from Volo's Guide to play as an Ogre. Aside from counting the character as Large (with the mini on a 50mm base) the rest of it is being used as written, with the bonus to carry capacity and the 5ft extra reach just representing the larger stature and the ambusher rule reflavoured as a character trait specific to him rather than a racial tendency (he's a Barb/Rogue, attacks from stealth as hard and fast as possible). It definitely works, only thing I had to actually change/justify was the Languages he spoke, so we just swapped out Goblin for Giant and it all worked fine, without the faff of having to go full homebrew.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/12/20 00:03:45


 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Counts as characters I think are fine. Sometimes a class fits what you want mechanically but is the wrong 'class idenity' or theme or whatever. Reflavoring rules isn't that much of a challenge.

   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 warboss wrote:
Just curious if anyone is against "counts as" characters. Basically, you use the existing rules as written for something that doesn't belong in the setting as established. For example, you're a cyborg from a scifi setting who somehow got teleported to this fantasy world and you're using a warforged artificer to simulate the tech. Nothing different in the rules but rather just how they're reflected in the game.
It usually depends on where the player plans on going with it.
I had one player who wanted to come from a high magic background in a mid-magic setting game, which was fine until they kept wanting to call in their multiple high-level relatives to solve their problems.

Similarly for the cyborg - it's one thing to be an odd metal man that fell from the sky with only vague memories of their past, it's another if they start scouting out suitable materials for a plasma reactor to power their starport.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

A.T. wrote:
Similarly for the cyborg - it's one thing to be an odd metal man that fell from the sky with only vague memories of their past, it's another if they start scouting out suitable materials for a plasma reactor to power their starport.


I'm sure to some that are opposed to the idea completely (which is a reasonable stance) that I'm splitting hairs but that's not what I was talking about. That's not using the rules as written and beyond the scope of both the setting and game. In my cyborg example, the character may end up searching for suitable materials for a plasma reactor to power his dormant plasma weaponry built into his body instead... which in game would be represented by the character taking fire spells in his artificer class and casting them when "firing".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Paradigm wrote:
I'm doing pretty much that at the moment, using the Bugbear race from Volo's Guide to play as an Ogre. Aside from counting the character as Large (with the mini on a 50mm base) the rest of it is being used as written, with the bonus to carry capacity and the 5ft extra reach just representing the larger stature and the ambusher rule reflavoured as a character trait specific to him rather than a racial tendency (he's a Barb/Rogue, attacks from stealth as hard and fast as possible). It definitely works, only thing I had to actually change/justify was the Languages he spoke, so we just swapped out Goblin for Giant and it all worked fine, without the faff of having to go full homebrew.


Other than the change in size, I'd say that's a pretty cool use. I suppose you could just use the "powerful build" class ability to count for that as well while still staying technically medium (using a half ogre instead as the background for the character).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/20 15:38:36


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 warboss wrote:
Just curious if anyone is against "counts as" characters.
I love this idea. I should also note that I prefer players roll stats 3d6 in order with no substitutions. So, in a way, all characters count-as using that methodology. If someone, looking at their characters stats rolled up like that, worked out that the PC made sense as some kind of warbot from a sci fi setting, I would be totally stoked.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

I'm glad that someone other than me is open to the idea of flavor based "counts as" using the existing rules as written. Honestly, I was expecting a bit more pushback.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Using different monster stat blocks is a good way to throw players off. Take a young red dragon and call it some kind of mutant fire breathing troll. The players think its a really unique monster they are fighting. They don't need to know it's that easy to mix things up for a "unique" encounter.

Need a tough goblin chieftain? Give it orc stats and call it a goblin.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Good point. There is nothing restricting this type of counts as to players exclusively.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Ahhhhhh! We finally accomplished a milestone in Strahd and got to level up! Woot us! Only 30+ sessions to accomplish two milestones!

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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





USA

Congrats Easy E! I'm glad that your group has finally made some progress

@Warboss: I'm not against "counts as" either. I think each group and DM is fine to play the way they want, and allow what they want. I'm helping a player have a unique character that is basically a combination of a warforged and a flesh golem. That would probably bother people too.

   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





Kansas, United States

 Octopoid wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
It is pretty lackluster. I've seen many try necromancer of the years I've now played. I've rarely seen anyone feel satisfied by it. Many of the Wizard subclasses in general honestly feel meh to me. Most of the fantasy for the class really just comes from the base class itself.

I'd suggest switching to a Warlock if you can. Pact of the Chain, Undead Patron. You'll have less ability to unleash a skeleton army, but you'll feel more like a master of necromantic power/a lich.

Another option is the Circle of Spores Druid, who is basically a Druid Necromancer. Mechanically, they can get an army of minions going, but it takes a DM willing to go along with it in a lot of ways cause the mechanics are a bit wonky.


Thanks for the suggestions! I talked it out with my DM, and we're going to homebrew an Artificer sub-class based on the Arcane Defender. I'll let you all know how it goes: we play again this Sunday.

Thanks again!


Seemed to work pretty well, actually! I have a "necromantic defender" that functions basically the same as the Arcane Defender from the canon Artificer sub-class in Tasha's. We went through a monastery, fought a flesh golem, did some poking about... it worked fine. I'm much happier with my character now than when he was a necromancer, even though he lost a lot of combat utility in the switch. It just FITS better.

Death Guard - "The Rotmongers"
Chaos Space Marines - "The Sin-Eaters"
Dark Angels - "Nemeses Errant"
Deathwatch 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

In episode 38 of Curse of Strahd, (Warning: Slight CoS spoilers ahead!) we had a nice dinner date with Strahd and his harem. My character is a small, passive knowledge cleric who has been overawed and fearful of Strahd in all of our past encounters. However, I had a real drop the mike moment at the end of this RP heavy session that I wanted to share.

Spoiler:

We had managed to go through about half of the Tome of Strahd at this point. In addition, Strahd had given us some backstory. He also confirmed our theories about how death in Barovia works. Starhd is mad at us for breaking his loves' reincarnation cycle by destroying a Tree in his past.

At the end of the dinner party (and session) Strahd says: Give me one good reason why I should not kill you where you stand?

Me: <Starts to outright laugh, and laugh, and laugh, till I have tears of laughter. My compatriots just look at me in shock.>

Strahd: Am I amusing you?

Me: Thank you Count Von Zarovich, for giving me the best laugh I have had since entering this forsaken and blighted land.

I have know folks like you my whole life Strahd. You have your "I am the land" persona, your long, noble lineage, you appear wherever you want, people talk about you in hushed whispers, and you are a powerful wizard. Then you invite us to this dinner. You collect us in a magic coach, bring us to your big castle, give us a big feast, show off your impressive harem of concubines. Clearly, you are attempting to overawe us and impress us with your power.

But at the end of the day, you have no power. By your own admission, you can't get us out of Barovia. You can't even leave. You got your power by dealing with the real heavy hitters of this land. You are no different than the serfs here.

You want us to think you have all this power over us. That we are trapped here with you. But the truth is, you are trapped in here... with us! The Lord of the Land has no clothes.

You can't. get.rid.of.us! Kill us? Our souls will just recycle back into other bodies, and be a pain in your ass all over again, and again.

You think you beat Vasilly? Sergei? Yet, they are still here! You said it yourself, nothing in Barovia can ever leave Barovia. The foes you claim to have bested are still all around you.

<Stands up and looks Strahd in the eyes>

Moments ago you derided us for not knowing as much as we thought we knew, for asking the wrong questions. Yet, here we are; and you are the one asking the wrong questions.

You want to know why you should let us live? That's the wrong question Count. The right question is, why are you wasting our time right now with this show dinner party when we should be out there doing what we do best? Breaking stuff.....

Breaking YOUR curse.

Unless you have something useful or helpful to say I think we are done here.



That was the end of the adventure that night. Mike.... dropped. My whole view on Strahd shifted immediately from frightful BBEG, to powerless, pathetic pawn in an instant. Who knows it that is the right interpretation yet.


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/26 20:48:47


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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Back at it in Barovia last night.

Our whole group's strategy is to try to never have to roll initiative, because then we die. If initiative has to be rolled, we have failed and typically need to run for it.

Every time we have had to roll Initiative, I have been reduce to 0 Hp, typically by 1 hit possibly 2 hits. I do everything I can to avoid even being a target, including using disengage, tactical placement and dodge actions. Many times, half our group or more is down at a time, and the end result is typically us running away as best we can.

Maybe that is why we have accomplished so 2 milestones in 120 hours of play, because D&D is not really designed for such an approach? Curse of Strahd seems to lean heavily towards tough foes. Therefore, it makes little sense to try to out fight the module and brains/diplomacy are required more than brawn, which we also appear to be lacking in!

All that being said, we have only had 1 real death which was by disintegration. However, we have all been to 0 HP many times, sometimes multiple times in a single event. I am still unsure how to approach or frame my thinking around this campaign and we are 7-8 months in.

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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

To my mind, a player droppong to 0HP in combat shouldn't be an irregular occurance. In more specfically dangerous fights, half the party to going down is not unreasonable, accounting for the fact that 1HP fights as well as 100HP on their turn and healing is plentiful. Threat creates tension, which is generally a good thing, and even as a very figiving/narrative-over-rules DM, I err on the side of designing high-damage/danger encounters because that's where we have the most fun.


That said (and I don't mean this an attack) your DM seems to be running a really unusual campaign, where you can p[ay that long and only level twice. I get that slow campaigns are a thing (my own current game is significantly slower on a per-session basis that my last one, despite my efforts to speed things along), but it seems to me like they've set the specific milestones ahead of time and are only willing to hand out a level when you hit those specific points (many of which will presumably need you to be more powerful to achieve anyway).

I don't know if that's how the book sets it out, but to my mind Milestone levelling is there to give you freedom to control the pace of progress, not to be bound by a dozen pre-arranged checkpoints. If the group is in a good place and enjoying their current level of power, ease off a bit, and if they're getting frustrated (as you seem to be?). speed things up a bit and arrange for them to level up sooner rather than later by putting things in their path that directly lead to worthwhile progress.

It may be that your DM is stimply running the campaign 'by the book', and thus hasn't considered changing the pace in that way, but it might be worth bringing up if you're not having a good time. Possibly the book is more linear, and your group is taking a more sandbox approach, leading to progress towards lots of objectives but not yet actually achieving many? Or perhaps, as you say, your approach to combat isn't gelling with the tone or mechanics of the game.

Having run a lot of horror games myself, there is something to be said for making monsters seems scarier than they are, while still keeping them within what the players can mechanically manage. But if you're having to run from everything, your DM should definitely be considering that either the party is low-power or more geared towards non-combat solutions and adapting encounters accordingly. It shouldn't matter, as it's on the DM to balance around such things, but what's your party composition? If you've got a Wizard, two Bards and a Rogue for instance, then obviously you're going to be a little squishier than a party with a Barbarian, a Paladin and a Fighter up front, and that does need to be taken into account.

Do you know if the other players having the same frustrations? Might be worth checking in with them and seeing, because from what you've said it feels a little like not everyone is on the same page regarding the tone/pacing of the campaign, which might be easily resolved with some conversation over these issues.

Oh, and that writeup in your last post is awesome!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/02 19:04:01


 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Yeah, it definitely is the case where there are 17 pre-planned milestones, and the DM estimated we will need to hit at least 7 to have a chance to end the campaign successfully.

Our mix is a ranger, cleric, bard, fighter, and rogue. Our ranger is a distance fighter, our rogue is stealth, our fighter is a close combat person, Bard is the party face with spell casting, and the Cleric is the know-stuff guy. We have a decent amount of healing ability which we use.... a lot. However, we do not have great sponge or damage dealer.

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Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Easy E wrote:
Maybe that is why we have accomplished so 2 milestones in 120 hours of play, because D&D is not really designed for such an approach?
It's a DM thing rather than a D&D thing.

High-threat games where combat is a last option are so long as it is structured that the players can advance through the story via their non-combat options rather than banging their heads against walls, and so long as the players know what they are in for before they bring characters that are only useful in combat (similar to how you'd warn a player who wanted to bring a socialite into the tomb of horrors).

That said slow level progress in d&d is sometimes needed just due to the leaps in power spellcasting characters make, some plots will fall on their face when confronted with teleport, passwall, etc. There is even a variant of 3.5 called 'E6' where the character progression stops at level 6 and then just hands out feats (and the occasional bonus feat, skill points, or hitpoints aren't a bad way to break up a long gap between levels).
   
Made in gb
Mad Gyrocopter Pilot





Northumberland

Had a great villain moment in my campaign yesterday and I wanted to share it with you all.

So at the start of the campaign the party all received a mysterious note tasking them to meet. It was my little necromancer who has been terrorising the local area and seeks a powerful staff which he tasked the adventurers with retrieving. Now they've been battling his followers and helping to restore order to the land for a while and are off to this tomb. Now this necromancer has been trying to locate the artefact for several hundred years and has finally found it. But he knows he can't pick it up without having dragonsblood within him.

Now I'm running this campaign over discord with some very good friends and about 4 months ago I had a fun little idea. I got one of our other friends and his partner to play minor characters that they meet at the entrance of the tomb. A scholarly ancient wizard and his kobold servant. Only in was in fact the necromancer in disguise. I stressed that they play really daft and rather comical characters and they absolutely aced it. I asked them to keep it all a secret and so for 4 months they did just that. Now with seven of us it became so much harder to organise everyone and on top of that the entire dungeon took 3 separate sessions for them to navigate. I made it so that the dragonborn rogue had to be the one to grab the artefact thanks to multiple references in game and the wizard player urging him on.

As the party was fighting the undead defender of the tomb tasked with stopping the artefact being taken the dragonborn raced up the stairs to grab it. I said I'll give you a free action to take it if you like!

I talked up the feeling of raw power that surges through his hands as he picks up the staff.
I made him roll a con save which he promptly failed and he feels a sharp stabbing sensation in his spine, his body locks up and he falls backwards down the stairs and lands on the ground right in front of their friendly wizard. His face and clothes start to shimmer and suddenly they see a face they recognise. The necromancer grabs the staff from the rogue's unfeeling fingers, blasts the tomb guardian with the staff before laughing evilly and departing, with the threat on the town they've been helping now greater than ever. The look on their faces as I was describing it all was just delicious. All that prep and planning finally paid off and it was so worth it. What a game!

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Painting Log of various minis:
# Olthannon's Oscillating Orchard of Opportunity #

 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I used Speak with Dead to try and negotiate with a Banshee to let us pass and not attack..... it did not work too well.

Oh well!

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Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

As a break from our Curse of Strahd game (session 48 or so), we played a one-shot of 5e and a one shot of Star Wars d6 from West End Games.

It was nice to play something a bit different, and let the CoS GM be a player, and other players to stretch their GM muscles. Our group is lucky as we have 4 alternate GMs in our group of 7.

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Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

We are back to CoS tonight, and we are going into month 4 (real life time, with 1 session a week) of being trapped in Castle Ravenloft. I have spent about two months on 4 or fewer hit points. LOL.

I am really looking forward to getting out of the castle at some point.

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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





USA

Best of luck getting out Easy E, sounds stressful to be stuck at 4 HP for that long.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Easy E wrote:
We are back to CoS tonight, and we are going into month 4 (real life time, with 1 session a week) of being trapped in Castle Ravenloft. I have spent about two months on 4 or fewer hit points. LOL.

I am really looking forward to getting out of the castle at some point.


Is that some sort of negative energy effect specific to the adventure that you couldn't heal?

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





 Easy E wrote:
We are back to CoS tonight, and we are going into month 4 (real life time, with 1 session a week) of being trapped in Castle Ravenloft. I have spent about two months on 4 or fewer hit points. LOL.
After two months i'd be seriously considering a level of berserker strength barbarian - which explicitly only works at 4 hitpoints or less :p
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

If all else fails, you could ask Strand nicely whether you can be excused.

Depending on his current mood, and how politely you ask, he might allow it.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 warboss wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
We are back to CoS tonight, and we are going into month 4 (real life time, with 1 session a week) of being trapped in Castle Ravenloft. I have spent about two months on 4 or fewer hit points. LOL.

I am really looking forward to getting out of the castle at some point.


Is that some sort of negative energy effect specific to the adventure that you couldn't heal?


No, just resource exhaustion and no place to rest in the dungeon equals 4 HP for two months!

We managed to escape BUT no long rest yet means I am still at 4 HP! LOL.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Spelljammer is back!




This is the minis video from Wizkids but there are others out there from WOTC. Yay? I was always more into the Forgotten Realms both in the novels and the games personally but I'm glad others can get their classic 80s dnd itch scratched. I didn't even know about the giant space hamster but I'm hooked on getting that model.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

That is an adorable giant miniature giant space hamster

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Well, the only DnD book I have purchased in the last 2 editions has been the Eberron source book. Now I will be buying the Spell Jammer one.



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Lance845 wrote:
Well, the only DnD book I have purchased in the last 2 editions has been the Eberron source book. Now I will be buying the Spell Jammer one.


Just as a word of warning, you might want to look into it first.
They... made some pretty significant changes.

Crystal Spheres are gone.
Phlogiston is gone, as you move away from the planetary systems, you just go directly into the Astral Sea (which means effectively just a normal mid/high level D&D planar adventure, but on boat).
A chunk of the 'new' races in the book are Star Frontiers refugees (like the Hadozee and Plasmoids) and have nought to do with Spelljammer at all.

And that's just what I've picked up from the initial preorder coverage. A deep dive will probably pick up more.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/26 00:32:24


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
 
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