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Made in ca
Dipping With Wood Stain






 Lance845 wrote:
"Fighters have always had the highest HP totals in DnD."

"Thats not true. Starting in 3rd edition Barbarian had a higher hit die than fighters so their HP was greater."

"Yeah, but thats just nitpicking wording and isn't productive. In practice Fighters have always always had the highest because I think so and that makes it a basis in reality."


Barbarians were introduced in 1st edition in Unearthed Arcana and had a d12 hit die….
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Lance845 wrote:
 warboss wrote:
I appreciate you doing the legwork. Yeah, that's a pretty sad way to use an otherwise awesome abilitiy in theory. I'd hope that animal companion would be better. From the wiki, they seem mutually exclusive for subclasses; you either have one or the other. If wildshape is that lame, I'd rather have a bear buddy assuming that is an actual creature and not another cosmetic power excuse.


Small look at them, it looks like their lvl 10 paragon paths amount to.

Wild Shape ground predator big boosts.
Wild Shape flying predator big boosts.
Damage caster
Control/support caster.


Were those subclasses level 10 and up? I just figured they were from the start as variants of the druid in general. That sucks even more if you have to unlock them 1/3 of the way through the full progression just to get what amounts to what I'd personally consider iconic druid abilities.

We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






 warboss wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
 warboss wrote:
I appreciate you doing the legwork. Yeah, that's a pretty sad way to use an otherwise awesome abilitiy in theory. I'd hope that animal companion would be better. From the wiki, they seem mutually exclusive for subclasses; you either have one or the other. If wildshape is that lame, I'd rather have a bear buddy assuming that is an actual creature and not another cosmetic power excuse.


Small look at them, it looks like their lvl 10 paragon paths amount to.

Wild Shape ground predator big boosts.
Wild Shape flying predator big boosts.
Damage caster
Control/support caster.


Were those subclasses level 10 and up? I just figured they were from the start as variants of the druid in general. That sucks even more if you have to unlock them 1/3 of the way through the full progression just to get what amounts to what I'd personally consider iconic druid abilities.


Yeah, the sub classes of 5th were an evolution of the paragon paths from 4th. In 5th you pick one at level 3. In 4th you pick them at level 10.

You do however have little things you pick right from the beginning. EXTREMELY minor things.

Like the druid picks.

Primal Aspect
Druidic lore speaks of the Primal Beast, the first
spirit of the world’s noble predators. A formless thing
of shadows, fur, feathers, and claws, this creature
appears in many druids’ visions, and they speak of
channeling the Primal Beast when using their wild
shape and beast form powers. As a druid, you choose
which aspect of the Primal Beast you most strongly
manifest with your powers.
Choose one of these options. Your choice provides
bonuses to certain druid powers, as detailed in those
powers.

Primal Guardian: While you are not wearing
heavy armor, you can use your Constitution modifier
in place of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifier to
determine your AC.

Primal Predator: While you are not wearing
heavy armor, you gain a +1 bonus to your speed.


I don't really see any powers that are effected by it oddly enough...

I do see looking through the powers that they have a bunch of daily ones that modify the Wild Shape. So like.. one of them makes you a tiny creature like a mouse or snake or whatever and then for the rest of the encounter you can use wild shape to shift between this, another form, or back to humanoid. And THAT provides bonuses to sneak and stealth etc... Another makes you a dire wolf and you gain bonuses against prone enemies and your attacks have a chance to knock enemies prone.

So there is generic wild shape with a bunch of wild shape powers that are at will or encounter and then daily powers that allow tweaked wild shapes that modify your stats and skills and perks of the form.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in fr
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 Lance845 wrote:
I understand the difference. I did not claim that Druid was a prestige class in ADnD. I said it was closer to a prestige class than the base class that Aecus Decimus was claiming the druid had been "for decades". A statement that is factually untrue and just catastrophizing nonsense to give his lack of argument the illusion of added weight. THAT is bad faith arguing.


Bad faith arguing is you continuing to nitpick over whether druids in earlier rules were technically a "class" or a "sub-class" or "variant class" and ignoring the substance of the argument: that a core piece of the game was removed from the PHB so WOTC could sell it as day one DLC. It's the kind of thing you do when you're treating the argument as an e-sport and have no personal stake in it, where identifying an error scores points even if that error is minor and unrelated to the actual point being made.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/07 03:51:54


 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Aecus Decimus wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
I understand the difference. I did not claim that Druid was a prestige class in ADnD. I said it was closer to a prestige class than the base class that Aecus Decimus was claiming the druid had been "for decades". A statement that is factually untrue and just catastrophizing nonsense to give his lack of argument the illusion of added weight. THAT is bad faith arguing.


Bad faith arguing is you continuing to nitpick over whether druids in earlier rules were technically a "class" or a "sub-class" or "variant class" and ignoring the substance of the argument: that a core piece of the game was removed from the PHB so WOTC could sell it as day one DLC.


Ive laid out pretty clearly the sheer volume of content that was given in PHB 1 in 4th edition. You brushed that content off as "not for you" and ignored it's actual existence because you didn't think you would use it.

YOU ignored that fact to continue to argue in bad faith about your OPINION on why it was removed. You also continue to argue in bad faith calling it "day one DLC", even though people asked you if it was released x months/year later or if it was literally released day one. I suspect you ignored their question because the answer would showcase the catastrophizing bs that is your argument.


I am going to repeat the thing that kicked this all off. 5th edition is just 4th edition with a bunch of fluff wrapped around the mechanics to hide it. All of 4ths ideas are present in 5th. And your impotent anger at it because you didn't like that they just laid out how bad a game dnd is in plain rules text instead of hiding it behind the fluff is just that. Your ignorance becoming nonsensical anger.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Lance845 wrote:

I don't really see any powers that are effected by it oddly enough...

I do see looking through the powers that they have a bunch of daily ones that modify the Wild Shape. So like.. one of them makes you a tiny creature like a mouse or snake or whatever and then for the rest of the encounter you can use wild shape to shift between this, another form, or back to humanoid. And THAT provides bonuses to sneak and stealth etc... Another makes you a dire wolf and you gain bonuses against prone enemies and your attacks have a chance to knock enemies prone.

So there is generic wild shape with a bunch of wild shape powers that are at will or encounter and then daily powers that allow tweaked wild shapes that modify your stats and skills and perks of the form.


Are those powers that change your stats/bonuses available right away or are they level gated to 10+ like the subclasses you posted? The discussion here of 4e initially made me want to see if 4e was "fixable" as I also watched some videos talking about its relative strengths/innovations at the time (like skill challenges, ease of creation and variety of encounters) but more of the bugbears keep coming out. I was actually going to post a thread asking specifically that question (Could it have been saved?) but I think I've answered it again 14 years later.

You mentioned that monsters were changed in later books/manuals; do you know what changes they made? I saw a combat explanation of 4e on youtube and it was lauding the exact scenario that I detested in that there was a level 1 fighter fighting against a low tier goblin (obviously not a minion) and the gobbo had almost 30 hp (so did the fighter) as a sample combat example. That was the grindy mess that broke our group in that the big finale fight of the session had a couple of those types of goblins and a few minions. We cleared out the minions and after two rounds were left with just at will powers to chip away at the gobbos' health. With miss chances on the hit roll, smart tactics, and average damage factored in, it would have taken over an hour at a minimum of real time just doing the same basic at will attacks to take out the goblins. And those weren't solos in 4e parlance as there were multiple we were facing (I think one less than the number of party members).

One thing I like about Forbidden Lands is that the basic enemy mook is still a viable threat even to experienced characters with lots of skills and traits; you're only one good attack/bad defence roll away from being taught a lesson even by a lowly goblin but you can always do the same back as well. Full PC HP and 3.5/5e low HP for starting enemies simulate that to some degree as well though less elegantly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/07 14:19:15


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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




So on a scale of 1-10, where does everyone currently place their marker for "trusting WOTC" and going back to DnD:B?
   
Made in us
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 warboss wrote:

Are those powers that change your stats/bonuses available right away or are they level gated to 10+ like the subclasses you posted? The discussion here of 4e initially made me want to see if 4e was "fixable" as I also watched some videos talking about its relative strengths/innovations at the time (like skill challenges, ease of creation and variety of encounters) but more of the bugbears keep coming out. I was actually going to post a thread asking specifically that question (Could it have been saved?) but I think I've answered it again 14 years later.


The paragon paths are in addition to your base class. So you are a druid and gain druid abilities from level 1-30. But at level 10 you also pick a paragon path and gain additional abilities as you continue to level up based on the paragon path.

The adjusting your stats looked like they were basically all daily powers (so each form you get you can use once per long rest) and you gain them starting at...lvl 2. Which would be the sneaky small animal one.

You mentioned that monsters were changed in later books/manuals; do you know what changes they made? I saw a combat explanation of 4e on youtube and it was lauding the exact scenario that I detested in that there was a level 1 fighter fighting against a low tier goblin (obviously not a minion) and the gobbo had almost 30 hp (so did the fighter) as a sample combat example. That was the grindy mess that broke our group in that the big finale fight of the session had a couple of those types of goblins and a few minions. We cleared out the minions and after two rounds were left with just at will powers to chip away at the gobbos' health. With miss chances on the hit roll, smart tactics, and average damage factored in, it would have taken over an hour at a minimum of real time just doing the same basic at will attacks to take out the goblins. And those weren't solos in 4e parlance as there were multiple we were facing (I think one less than the number of party members).


I am mostly working off of what I remember from discussions in designer circles from back then. It was that the distribution of health/stats/whatever made the monster stat blocks in the second MM were better balanced for a more interesting encounter. Finding a small guy stats you could just call a goblin was then easy.

I mean, it's still dnd. So it's still always escalating HP pools that don't do anything until you hit zero. Thats just baked into the D20 mechanics.

One thing I like about Forbidden Lands is that the basic enemy mook is still a viable threat even to experienced characters with lots of skills and traits; you're only one good attack/bad defence roll away from being taught a lesson even by a lowly goblin but you can always do the same back as well. Full PC HP and 3.5/5e low HP for starting enemies simulate that to some degree as well though less elegantly.


Yeah. The smaller tighter numbers means the world always feels dangerous but so do you. Forbidden Lands is just a better over all game. Not perfect. But better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So on a scale of 1-10, where does everyone currently place their marker for "trusting WOTC" and going back to DnD:B?


Zero. Never.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/07 16:14:40



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

But to be fair you didn't like DnD before the event



That said I expect a majority will resume their DnD Beyond accounts over time and that the next edition marketing will bring a fresh wave of users to their game. Both new to RPG gaming and those returning from previous editions to the new system.


DnD is still the juggernaught in the market and those 3rd parties didn't fight to abandon the DnD content they produce, they fought to keep it and to keep going. Sure some might change course now; some might well splice out into other game systems; but many will continue with DnD systems.


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3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






 Overread wrote:
But to be fair you didn't like DnD before the event


Very Fair

That said I expect a majority will resume their DnD Beyond accounts over time and that the next edition marketing will bring a fresh wave of users to their game. Both new to RPG gaming and those returning from previous editions to the new system.


DnD is still the juggernaught in the market and those 3rd parties didn't fight to abandon the DnD content they produce, they fought to keep it and to keep going. Sure some might change course now; some might well splice out into other game systems; but many will continue with DnD systems.


My hope is that the podcast market picks up new games and that as a result the people THEY were bringing to DnD will be spread to other systems. I don't think the podcast/live play guys impact can be underestimated.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Lance845 wrote:


I mean, it's still dnd. So it's still always escalating HP pools that don't do anything until you hit zero. Thats just baked into the D20 mechanics.


FWIW, I think we were second level for that encounter and the gobbos with 30ish hp were the lowest non-minion entries. YMMV but I kind of expect a different feel at the lowest levels myself and they used the excuse of minions (which I like the addition of mechanically!) to bulletsponge everyone else MMO style. The key difference being that in an MMO your character makes two attacks every couple seconds automatically and you can just watch (and enjoy?) whereas on the tabletop it's 5 seconds of activity followed by 10-20 minutes of inactivity before you get to do anything again.

Yeah. The smaller tighter numbers means the world always feels dangerous but so do you. Forbidden Lands is just a better over all game. Not perfect. But better.


Agreed. I just like both on tabletop and in video games when your character noticeably improves but doesn't being a demigod compared with when you start. It's just a personal preference though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/07 16:36:43


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

I went from a 0 to a 0. I am not a big fan of D&D, but play it to get in some TTRPGs as the people around me are fans.

That said, I have noticed a bit of a shift in my local fanbase thanks to the OGL, but it is too soon to tell if it will drive them to other games.

I think their eyes have been opened a bit as we play L5R, and the next GM in line wants to play Avatar: The Last Airbender game instead of going back to D&D.

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The Battle Barge Buffet Line

3/10. Up from 0 before the creative commons release but down from 6 before the unnecessary OGL drama and "undermonitized" comments came to light (it was 7 two years ago before they accelerated their production schedule pushing out substandard books like Hogw... I mean Strixhaven and Spelljammer came out).

I had hoped that years of prosperity under 5e had convinced them that their goals with 4e and the GSL were short sighted and harmful. I was wrong. Very wrong. My current 3 is tentative and only that high because they can't backtrack out of the creative commons; it also indicates my pessimism regarding 6e.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Easy E wrote:

I think their eyes have been opened a bit as we play L5R, and the next GM in line wants to play Avatar: The Last Airbender game instead of going back to D&D.


Is the L5R campaign planned as a limited run to begin with?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/07 18:45:02


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So on a scale of 1-10, where does everyone currently place their marker for "trusting WOTC" and going back to DnD:B?


0 and 10 (most likely). Never playing D&D again probably means never playing tabletop RPGs again- at some point D&D will come up - common ground is pretty inevitable for group activities, especially without a permanent group that exactly mirrors your own preferences..

But trusting a company is dumb and completely unnecessary to boot. It has nothing at all to do with playing a game.

And this little snafu hasn't changed either of those numbers. I wouldn't trust the WotC devs to successfully cut grass, and that's been true since ex-devs starting talking about playtesting and design decisions for 3.0. How they pushed playtesters to just play fighters, wizards, clerics and thieves over the other classes, how the devs knew different feats were worth more than others (and some intentionally added 'trap options' to the list), and how the sorcerer was punished with getting higher level spells a level later because Skip Williams simply hated the class and wouldn't budge on it.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2023/02/07 19:38:23


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Easy E wrote:

I think their eyes have been opened a bit as we play L5R, and the next GM in line wants to play Avatar: The Last Airbender game instead of going back to D&D.

Is the L5R campaign planned as a limited run to begin with?


Yes, I wrote it for 1 adventure per season. So a Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter adventure. Each adventure is 1-3 sessions each, so about 10-12 sessions total to play through. Each session is designed to showcase a unique aspect of L5R. It also (theoretically ends) ends in such a way that we can return to the campaign again if we want to later.

Once it is done, we will rotate out to Avatar. Then, when that is done, we will decide what to do next. Maybe it will be L5R again, but maybe it won't be? After Avatar, we may have 1 or 2 GMs take a rotation before my turn comes up again, and I will probably want to do something else by then.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/07 19:46:57


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UK

 warboss wrote:
3/10. Up from 0 before the creative commons release but down from 6 before the unnecessary OGL drama and "undermonitized" comments came to light (it was 7 two years ago before they accelerated their production schedule pushing out substandard books like Hogw... I mean Strixhaven and Spelljammer came out).

I had hoped that years of prosperity under 5e had convinced them that their goals with 4e and the GSL were short sighted and harmful. I was wrong. Very wrong. My current 3 is tentative and only that high because they can't backtrack out of the creative commons; it also indicates my pessimism regarding 6e.



The core problem is the way Hasbrow/Wizards/Shareholders are aiming to manage things IS short term.
They are doing the same thing with Magic the Gathering, riding it hard whilst its popular and over-producing to generate more sales and more profit in the short term at the expense of the long term. Even to the point where they released something like 45 special cards (that you can't use in regular magic) for £1000. They weren't gold plated, they were just regular cards of exclusive old popular designs with a unique back design to them.

They are copy-catting the 90s comicbook investment boom where they made as many comics as they could with as many covers to satisfy the investor collector and to generate as much profit as they could. Again we saw that short term it generated a LOT of money and then the bubble burst and the market has suffered from those choices since.


The move with DnD was the same; the intention being to monetize the heck out of it and part of that was a new licence that allowed Wizards to collect royalties and take copyright content from 3rd parties against the original open licence. Short term that would have generated a lot of money for them; the long term cost is that many of those 3rd parties would have shut down or moved out of DnD entirely because of those terms and because those terms would likely have changed (eg Royalties were based on going over a certain income threshold which they would likely have lowered - plus it was based on turnover not profits so could easily hit many firms that turnover a lot of money, but aren't highly profitable).


Again its all short term fast growth economics designed to bleed something as fast as you can. That drives up the profits, drives up the stock price and, for a time, you maintain that insane constant rise. Then you get out fast and sell up before that bubble bursts and everything tumbles down.


Long term health, sustained growth, managed expansion, re-investment are all things they really didn't want to do or consider.
Sure they'd like long term survivability, they just aren't banking on it and working within that model. If they get it that's a bonus.

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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So on a scale of 1-10, where does everyone currently place their marker for "trusting WOTC" and going back to DnD:B?


0/10. 5e is the best D&D can do and I see no reason to move on to a new system. And I certainly see no reason to pay for a subscription service when printed books work just fine. It's not about trust, even without the SRD debacle that business model is not appealing at all. I'd only consider moving to 6e if the rules look good and it's possible to play with 100% paper books.

If I were a publisher I would trust WOTC 0/10 on this. They may not be able to revoke the licenses for the existing content but they can certainly move to a more restrictive license going forward and I expect them to do exactly that. It's time to start diversifying away from D&D so that when the market of people still playing older editions is no longer enough to support a business there's already a new customer base.
   
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The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Aecus Decimus wrote:

If I were a publisher I would trust WOTC 0/10 on this. They may not be able to revoke the licenses for the existing content but they can certainly move to a more restrictive license going forward and I expect them to do exactly that.


That's what I've been saying as well. I honestly believe their intent was to make 6e backward compatible for the most part with 5e (just like 3.5 was with 3) but that was when the larger business plan was to crush the third party industry, drive their sales into beyond, and hear the lamentations of other VTTs and crowdfunders. Now that those parts have changed, I expect 6e to significantly deviate while also under a completely new license.

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Can everyone take a second and see what came after the colon? It was "B" as in "Beyond". The digital app that WoTC has pushed heavily as the future path of DnD:One. Basically that's the platform they are launching their digital VTT on. I cancelled my sub on it last month, and won't be going back. Anyone else still using Beyond? That was my question. Not what system are you using...
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can everyone take a second and see what came after the colon? It was "B" as in "Beyond". The digital app that WoTC has pushed heavily as the future path of DnD:One. Basically that's the platform they are launching their digital VTT on. I cancelled my sub on it last month, and won't be going back. Anyone else still using Beyond? That was my question. Not what system are you using...


It's kind of the same question given the chances that 6e is heavily integrated with the official app for monetization purposes.
   
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

The best thing about the Creative Commons solution is that it removes the need to trust WOTC. I have no doubt that with One DnD they will pursue aggressive monetisation, limit third party content as much as possible and continue with their attempts to create a GW-esque closed ecosystem, but 5e is ours now and they have no way to undo that now, whether they want to or not (which os why I was so astonished to see it go under CC at all!). Things like Project Black Flag can go ahead on very firm legal footing, the various products in development at MCDM, Kobold, Paizo or Ghostfire et al are no longer under threat, and 5e stands poised to become the community edition long after WOTC rolls out One DnD.

In the long run, I personally am leaning towards going all-in on the MCDM RPG, as the stuff coming out of their early playtesting/design reports seems really fresh and innovative, and very much caters to the kind of game I enjoy. However, thanks to the CC license and the potential for pngoing support being restored, I shall likely also stay playing 5e for a good long while, expanding it as needed with third party stuff and my own ever-growing library of homebrew content. I will continue to use DnD Beyond's free tier for character sheet management when I play for as long as it sticks around (though I don't foresee it continuing to support 5e characters once One launches, especially now, so hopefully a community-created alternative pops up before then.), but WOTC won't be getting any money from me besdies the odd Nolzur's mini going forward.

 
   
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 Paradigm wrote:
(which is why I was so astonished to see it go under CC at all!)


I suspect the gamble was that WOTC knew anything less was going to be insufficient to silence the backlash against the license changes but hopefully (from their point of view) most customers would be moving on to 6e and its more restrictive licensing anyway and the value of the CC content would fade out naturally over time. Sacrifice a bit of control, minimize the PR damage to the product WOTC intends to make their money from.
   
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If they make 5E and all it's content open forever, I MIGHT be enticed to come back to DnD Beyond, just for easy access to my materials. But the rest of the app is hot garbage. Even the encounter creator, that's been in alpha for over 2 years, still doesn't function properly. The UI is atrocious, and has no quick search function STILL.

Even then only monster manuals for toilet reading.

It's funny. I've been playing off and on for the last 30 years, and I've never realized I've been playing the game wrong until I read Sly Flourish's book on how to DM. DnD has fostered the idea for so long that the GM needs to be exhaustively prepping constantly at all hours, for what amounts to a weekly board game with friends. DnD has been teaching us to play the game wrong. Just a few hours and access to my charts and rolodex of character/random NPCs and encounter ideas. Done.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/08 14:04:08


 
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can everyone take a second and see what came after the colon? It was "B" as in "Beyond". The digital app that WoTC has pushed heavily as the future path of DnD:One. Basically that's the platform they are launching their digital VTT on. I cancelled my sub on it last month, and won't be going back. Anyone else still using Beyond? That was my question. Not what system are you using...


Ah. I assumed you were trying for an emote. Words are better than jargon and acronyms, especially for niche computer programs.


Beyond is a terrible system that was never worth using in the first place. It puts information in the wrong order (not even in the natural flow of eye-movements across websites) and has far too many sub-menus.

Personally, I can't figure out why I would want it over a piece of paper that I can annotate and arrange in a functional way.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If they make 5E and all it's content open forever, I MIGHT be enticed to come back to DnD Beyond, just for easy access to my materials. But the rest of the app is hot garbage. Even the encounter creator, that's been in alpha for over 2 years, still doesn't function properly. The UI is atrocious, and has no quick search function STILL.


Honest question: why were you paying for this garbage up until the SRD debacle?

And fortunately 5E is open forever no matter what. The CC license makes that official and it's a very thoroughly litigated document with no room for WOTC to try to change their mind.
   
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The Battle Barge Buffet Line

Aecus Decimus wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If they make 5E and all it's content open forever, I MIGHT be enticed to come back to DnD Beyond, just for easy access to my materials. But the rest of the app is hot garbage. Even the encounter creator, that's been in alpha for over 2 years, still doesn't function properly. The UI is atrocious, and has no quick search function STILL.


Honest question: why were you paying for this garbage up until the SRD debacle?

And fortunately 5E is open forever no matter what. The CC license makes that official and it's a very thoroughly litigated document with no room for WOTC to try to change their mind.


I believe he is referring to his purchases of official D&D products like books on beyond and not the selectively carved out portions of the original trio of core books that make up the SRD. The SRD 5.1 is free forever now but they can disown your purchases on beyond immediately if that's what the TOS you agreed to when purchasing allows.

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Aecus Decimus wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If they make 5E and all it's content open forever, I MIGHT be enticed to come back to DnD Beyond, just for easy access to my materials. But the rest of the app is hot garbage. Even the encounter creator, that's been in alpha for over 2 years, still doesn't function properly. The UI is atrocious, and has no quick search function STILL.


Honest question: why were you paying for this garbage up until the SRD debacle?

And fortunately 5E is open forever no matter what. The CC license makes that official and it's a very thoroughly litigated document with no room for WOTC to try to change their mind.


Honest question: Why does every post of yours take the form of an attack?

Because I have a ton of content, and my players don't. I can't lend out my 1 Tashas to 3 different players every time they level up. Beyond makes sharing super easy. Now everyone can use the character maker (The only good thing) with the exact books I want to allow. Leveling and checking spells is also easy. Finally, due to covid in the past 3 years, I don't physically sit next to a lot of my players, so instead of calling them a liar on their dice, I can make them roll on the interface.

Finally, I bought the year sub BEFORE WoTC took over. They only recently took over and started making the "giant debacle."
It was a handy thing to have for checking my player's sheets while on break at work or whatnot.
   
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Beyonds greatest strengths is easy, searchable, and access to information for the entire party on the hand held device they all have; including other players sheets when they are out.

Beyond that, I am not sure what it really offers right now.

I am interested to see how the AI DM works going forward. To be honest, it sounds interesting but in reality it will probably be awful.

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 Easy E wrote:
Beyonds greatest strengths is easy, searchable, and access to information for the entire party on the hand held device they all have; including other players sheets when they are out.

Beyond that, I am not sure what it really offers right now.

I am interested to see how the AI DM works going forward. To be honest, it sounds interesting but in reality it will probably be awful.


For the AI DM, I'd quite like it to be a math bot tbf. I like the human aspect so I'd hate it if its gunna be running games.

But if it's a case of DM wants to put players through a dungoen but struggle with balancing combat for example. The AI DM could read their character sheets and the Human DM says I want a combat featuring undead and I want it "Easy, Medium, Challenging, Deadly, Unwinable".

The AI DM will then recommend an encounter to run.

OR

It recommends puzzles/traps to place in a dungeon.

If its an assistance tool for the DM's out there who find that aspect of building and balancing harder then great.

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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Finally, I bought the year sub BEFORE WoTC took over.


You could have just said that instead of complaining about the valid question of why you were paying money for a product you called "hot garbage", "atrocious", etc.

PS: why are you playing with people if you can't trust them to be honest about their dice?


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 Easy E wrote:
I am interested to see how the AI DM works going forward. To be honest, it sounds interesting but in reality it will probably be awful.


I think it will depend on your game type. If you want a straightforward "kick the door down, kill the monsters, take the loot" it will probably be fine. That kind of game is just a skirmish-scale wargame with stat advancement and it's pretty simple to script the behavior for each monster. RNG a grid of rooms, RNG a level-appropriate set of monsters behind each door, auto-generate some generic descriptive text and if it occasionally has some phrases that don't make sense it's no worse than the kind of DM that typically runs that game. If you want a game that is heavy on long-term story elements, character interactions, and NPCs with motives beyond "assign a quest to kill X monsters for Y GP at location Z" it's probably going to suck. Current AI is great at superficial stuff but it usually fails to hold up to a closer inspection and it's very bad at keeping a coherent train of thought through an extended sequence. It knows that A is often followed by B, and that B is often followed by C, but it struggles with nuances like B is usually followed by D instead of C if A happened along with E way back up the chain. So the longer you try to hold it on a specific sequence the more likely it is that the AI misses a point where a human would have known to break from the standard pattern and go in a different direction, or that the AI follows a false cue down a nonsensical path.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/02/09 16:39:49


 
   
 
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