Switch Theme:

Worst lore ever written?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Leicester

Hey all,

So I'd like to voice a slightly unpopular opinion. Not the smartest move for someone who doesn't deal well with being screamed at on the internet but here goes....

I was actually quite pleased they brought Guilliman back.

I know right? the guy who plays *ultramarines* and has an *ultramarines* profile pic likes the Ultramarines primarch... but let me stop you there?

-While I despise the new primaris (bar maybe the new redemptor dread, that big brute is what everyone wanted in scale from the AOBR artwork as a 12yr old)... I like Guilliman on the tabletop for the following reasons:

-Yes, he looks like he just wandered through a portal from age of sigmar rick n morty style... Yes, the fluff surrounding his awakening with Eldar and being just in time to save terra was a little poor... but purely in terms of his tabletop presence I like him.

-He's a trophy kill for players! he's not invincible, and killing him is very satisfying...

-But moreover... I don't play a hyper optimised list. that's not to say my lists are poor, and some of you may have seen me and my lists, or read my comments on people's lists trying to inject a little competitive sting to weaker forces... guilty as charged, sometimes I get competitive... and what Guilliman brings to the game is versatility for me as a player. I can run a fluffy, marine heavy light support list for fun in casual/ narrative games/intro games for new players, but also he allows me to instantly turn up the heat with his presence without having to go out and buy, build and (god forbid) PAINT a whole new army just to play at a higher level...

I know its not a popular opinion and fear some people will begin their furious keyboard warrior crusade shortly after this post; but I can't say I care too much. the fluff for him was poor but not the worst.... and honestly as an addition to many collections he's a boon of damage output that, used in the right settings, shouldn't spoil anyone's fun.

Just my 2 pence,
GamerGuy

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/02/20 08:41:11


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

BrianDavion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

Fenris is pre Gathering storm, cadia is 13th black crusade 999.M41, so I reiterate my completely correct point, as it stands, the imperium appears to be winning the war, they have not shown adequately that Chaos is kicking arse, they are failing at that, instead we have

Technologically resurgent imperium (small but happening)
Primarysues
Cawl.... ergh
Guilliman being everywhere at once
Those pesky deamon primarchs always "just" losing

the list goes on

Have you seriously not read the big rulebook?

Mortarion corrupted several worlds of the Ultramar Sector. The world of Iax, "once a verdant garden world" was left in ruins with Mortarion withdrawing from a deadlocked fight against Guilliman under the cover of a fething virus bomb.

Check pages 152 to 167 in the BRB. It basically gives brief rundowns of exactly what you're wanting to see in the form of "Chaos kicking arse".


It's not worth arguing with people like that. they won't be able until 40k consists of chaos conquering evertything and all of 40k being the last great battle for Terra


Wrong, what I want is an imperium teetering on the edge, I want meaningful battles rather than imperium winning all the time, chaos, orks, dark eldar, tau, nids all need novels showing that the imperium is being battered and losing.... slowly, but nope, all we have so far is dark imperium (good book), more needs to be done.

   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

Fenris is pre Gathering storm, cadia is 13th black crusade 999.M41, so I reiterate my completely correct point, as it stands, the imperium appears to be winning the war, they have not shown adequately that Chaos is kicking arse, they are failing at that, instead we have

Technologically resurgent imperium (small but happening)
Primarysues
Cawl.... ergh
Guilliman being everywhere at once
Those pesky deamon primarchs always "just" losing

the list goes on

Have you seriously not read the big rulebook?

Mortarion corrupted several worlds of the Ultramar Sector. The world of Iax, "once a verdant garden world" was left in ruins with Mortarion withdrawing from a deadlocked fight against Guilliman under the cover of a fething virus bomb.

Check pages 152 to 167 in the BRB. It basically gives brief rundowns of exactly what you're wanting to see in the form of "Chaos kicking arse".


It's not worth arguing with people like that. they won't be able until 40k consists of chaos conquering evertything and all of 40k being the last great battle for Terra


Wrong, what I want is an imperium teetering on the edge, I want meaningful battles rather than imperium winning all the time, chaos, orks, dark eldar, tau, nids all need novels showing that the imperium is being battered and losing.... slowly, but nope, all we have so far is dark imperium (good book), more needs to be done.



thing is, the IoM is going to win the meaningful battles (assuming they don't get dragged into a long ass stale mate ala armageddon etc) more often then not because they're defending. if you wanna preserve your game setting you need to err on the side of the status quo. otherwise you get a confused mess like what Battletech has become

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

BrianDavion wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

Fenris is pre Gathering storm, cadia is 13th black crusade 999.M41, so I reiterate my completely correct point, as it stands, the imperium appears to be winning the war, they have not shown adequately that Chaos is kicking arse, they are failing at that, instead we have

Technologically resurgent imperium (small but happening)
Primarysues
Cawl.... ergh
Guilliman being everywhere at once
Those pesky deamon primarchs always "just" losing

the list goes on

Have you seriously not read the big rulebook?

Mortarion corrupted several worlds of the Ultramar Sector. The world of Iax, "once a verdant garden world" was left in ruins with Mortarion withdrawing from a deadlocked fight against Guilliman under the cover of a fething virus bomb.

Check pages 152 to 167 in the BRB. It basically gives brief rundowns of exactly what you're wanting to see in the form of "Chaos kicking arse".


It's not worth arguing with people like that. they won't be able until 40k consists of chaos conquering evertything and all of 40k being the last great battle for Terra


Wrong, what I want is an imperium teetering on the edge, I want meaningful battles rather than imperium winning all the time, chaos, orks, dark eldar, tau, nids all need novels showing that the imperium is being battered and losing.... slowly, but nope, all we have so far is dark imperium (good book), more needs to be done.



thing is, the IoM is going to win the meaningful battles (assuming they don't get dragged into a long ass stale mate ala armageddon etc) more often then not because they're defending. if you wanna preserve your game setting you need to err on the side of the status quo. otherwise you get a confused mess like what Battletech has become


Thing is, they have broken the status quo, so they need to do something with it before the interest peters out, basically exactly like your battletech analogy, how long have we been waiting for ilClan now?
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Just Tony wrote:
Captain Cortez of the Crimson Fists getting written out as captured by Dark Eldar solely based on Dave Taylor getting his mini captured in a game.


How so? Plenty of things that happen in IRL battle reports make it into the lore of the game, not least of Captain Tycho and Sanctuary 101.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Zenithfleet wrote:


A quick fix for Necron fluff

If I could change one thing about the 3rd ed Oldcrons, I'd steal a couple of ideas from Doctor Who:

Firstly, I'd reveal that their Gauss-flayer guns are actually extremely painful teleporters. If you're shot by one, you're not zapped through the Warp like regular 40K teleportation; Necrons don't like that crazy place. Instead you're taken apart atom by atom and beamed to a tomb complex to be reassembled from the inside out, sans armour and weapons, in classic sf matter transmission style.

And once they've got you, they convert you into a new Necron. Just like the Cybermen (or the Daleks now and then). Doesn't matter who you are. Ork, Eldar, Human, Tau, whatever. Pariah gene people might be especially useful, but it works on most humanoid races. Anything the Necrons can't convert, such as a Tyranid or a vehicle, they just destroy.

That would make the whole 'harvesting' angle much scarier IMO. Necrons don't just kill planetary populations and leave no trace--they vanish them because they're converting them all into fresh Necrons. Possibly the victims remain aware in some sense, forced to obey orders in an 'I have no mouth and I must scream' situation. Or maybe they're stripped of all emotion--which would deprive the Warp of emotional energy.

The more they kill, the more Necrons there are--just like fantasy Undead--and the weaker the Warp becomes. So there's no need to muck around with complicated hints about pariah genes and ancient devices to cut off the Warp from the real universe. All the Necrons have to do is go to war. It's very hard to permanently destroy a Necron once it's created (it just phases out)... but every enemy killed by a Necron is added to their ranks. Every victory creates fresh troops and calms the raging emotions of the galaxy.

Eventually, when every sapient being is a robotic zombie, Chaos will flicker and die out and the galaxy will be at peace. The peace... of the grave! Dun dun dun.

It's just a rough fanwank idea that would need a bit of finessing, but there you go.




I really like this.

My pet theory was always that the Necrons wanted to kill the warp gods by killing their food, basically every sentient being in the galaxy.

They are the lords of Order, and there's nothing more orderly than a dead world.

And they're whispering to the Emperor... Here's a way to put down your burden, join our agenda...

 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Zenithfleet wrote:


A quick fix for Necron fluff

If I could change one thing about the 3rd ed Oldcrons, I'd steal a couple of ideas from Doctor Who:

Firstly, I'd reveal that their Gauss-flayer guns are actually extremely painful teleporters. If you're shot by one, you're not zapped through the Warp like regular 40K teleportation; Necrons don't like that crazy place. Instead you're taken apart atom by atom and beamed to a tomb complex to be reassembled from the inside out, sans armour and weapons, in classic sf matter transmission style.

And once they've got you, they convert you into a new Necron. Just like the Cybermen (or the Daleks now and then). Doesn't matter who you are. Ork, Eldar, Human, Tau, whatever. Pariah gene people might be especially useful, but it works on most humanoid races. Anything the Necrons can't convert, such as a Tyranid or a vehicle, they just destroy.

That would make the whole 'harvesting' angle much scarier IMO. Necrons don't just kill planetary populations and leave no trace--they vanish them because they're converting them all into fresh Necrons. Possibly the victims remain aware in some sense, forced to obey orders in an 'I have no mouth and I must scream' situation. Or maybe they're stripped of all emotion--which would deprive the Warp of emotional energy.

The more they kill, the more Necrons there are--just like fantasy Undead--and the weaker the Warp becomes. So there's no need to muck around with complicated hints about pariah genes and ancient devices to cut off the Warp from the real universe. All the Necrons have to do is go to war. It's very hard to permanently destroy a Necron once it's created (it just phases out)... but every enemy killed by a Necron is added to their ranks. Every victory creates fresh troops and calms the raging emotions of the galaxy.

Eventually, when every sapient being is a robotic zombie, Chaos will flicker and die out and the galaxy will be at peace. The peace... of the grave! Dun dun dun.

It's just a rough fanwank idea that would need a bit of finessing, but there you go.




I really like this.

My pet theory was always that the Necrons wanted to kill the warp gods by killing their food, basically every sentient being in the galaxy.

They are the lords of Order, and there's nothing more orderly than a dead world.

And they're whispering to the Emperor... Here's a way to put down your burden, join our agenda...


Yeah, other than the teleporting gun idea, its a pretty solid concept.
As a oldcron fan, I approve.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

It could be copying your brain for uploading into a necromancy body.

What was the doctor who where someone got trapped in a Dlaek and could only say Exterminate? Something like that.

 
   
Made in fr
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch



Netherlands

I really hate the Tyranid fluff.

"The hive fleet was descending upon the planet all powerfull, and nothing seemed to be able to stop them. But the very last moment, one brave sergeant managed a one-in-a-million shot in the eye of the X (old one/tyrant/swarmlord etc). The beast was dead and without its synaptic powers the whole tyranid army destroyed itself and also a couple of leviathans exploded and the whole Hive Fleet passed into oblivion."

Repeat for the next hive fleet.

14000
15000
4000 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Florida

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The Riptide. It fundamentally changed the Tau way of war from combined assets to "Big robots!".

The old fluff had heavy tanks and titans being taken by combined efforts of Hammerheads and aircraft. Then it was retconned that instead they developed the Riptide to fight them, even though it was worse at the job.

The Tau had also regarded the Imperium's use of Titans as wasteful. Putting that many resources into a single thing means it can only be in one place and it is only one target. Spreading them out amongst multiple units gave you more flexibility and the loss of any one single element was not a huge loss. That went straight out the window to be replaced by the Stormsurge and Supremacy.

I don't think a single unit has so drastically altered the fluff of an army in such a way since. It would be like Guilliman was only introduced in 8th edition and inserted into the victory over the tyranids as justification (can't remember which hive fleet it was).


I actually sold off a sizeable Tau army becuase of this. Tau was actually what really got me going in 40k the first time. I loved their original background and strategies.

I did keep my Kroot as I am hoping for some sort of expanded rules for them one day. Like the old Chapter Approved army list and custom units.

So other than above, I have to say the way new units have been 'always there' for Marines has always been terrible. Chibi-hawk was first. Then those so bad its laughable Centurions. And now everything Primaris. It is objectively bad story telling. I will not get over it and will never buy them. I will play 32-38k Warhammer for the rest of my days until GW and the local meta basically make that impossible. And unfortunately I think I am getting on the Heresy train close to the end of line.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/20 13:33:23


SickSix's Silver Skull WIP thread
My Youtube Channel
JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
= Epic First Post.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Please do tell how it's objective.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 Infantryman wrote:
Yeah that's actually kinda cool...


Indeed!

The original Cron fluff was problematic to me due to the timeline. 65mm years ago? Also the whole Ctan thing to me is atrocious.I prefer a race of super advanced robobeings bent on cleansing the universe in their own way. All your organics, off my galaxy!
Now if you said 65,000 years ago, and a lot of it fits better.


65 million is way more believable. That's really not a long time in terms of evolution (it's as long ago to the Imperium as the dinosaurs are to us).


The milky way is 13.5 billion years old, and the elements to create life started to be common enough to form life about 10 billion years ago, the earth is 4.5 billion years old. The fact the Necrontyr were only say 65 to 70 million years older than humanity is an amazing coincidence given the approximately 5 billion year range of possible values. Without even coming near the limits imposed, you could easily have civilizations billions years older than humanity (the C'Tan call themselves the first, and while we get that from an unreliable narrator, there is little doubt they are billions of years old).

Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.  
   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




topaxygouroun i wrote:
I really hate the Tyranid fluff.


You're right, "biotech" and living weapons is such a silly scifi trope that one should always mercilessly mock it. Biological matter-to-energy conversion is too inefficient, living stuff would be dead stuff before a hive fleet got anywhere and the bugs would collapse and die in droves if the environment they were sent into - without suits - was the slightest bit off from what they need. Not that they'd be sent anywhere from a dead hive fleet, ofc, living matter just doesn't react well to cosmic radiation.

They don't even have the excuse of being demons from beyond our dimension.
   
Made in ca
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





Canada

Spetulhu wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
I really hate the Tyranid fluff.


You're right, "biotech" and living weapons is such a silly scifi trope that one should always mercilessly mock it. Biological matter-to-energy conversion is too inefficient, living stuff would be dead stuff before a hive fleet got anywhere and the bugs would collapse and die in droves if the environment they were sent into - without suits - was the slightest bit off from what they need. Not that they'd be sent anywhere from a dead hive fleet, ofc, living matter just doesn't react well to cosmic radiation.

They don't even have the excuse of being demons from beyond our dimension.


I agree. Biotech is silly. Maybe if a Tyranid could become a Space Marine, then they'd be cool...



Gets along better with animals... Go figure. 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 darkcloak wrote:


I agree. Biotech is silly. Maybe if a Tyranid could become a Space Marine, then they'd be cool...


They can't but Space Marines can become Tyranids...

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





worst lore in 40k, thats easy "emo space terminator egyptians" for necrons. They went from a terrifying unknowable evil to those emo kids we dont want to talk to.
   
Made in au
Axis & Allies Player




 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Zenithfleet wrote:


A quick fix for Necron fluff

If I could change one thing about the 3rd ed Oldcrons, I'd steal a couple of ideas from Doctor Who:

Firstly, I'd reveal that their Gauss-flayer guns are actually extremely painful teleporters. If you're shot by one, you're not zapped through the Warp like regular 40K teleportation; Necrons don't like that crazy place. Instead you're taken apart atom by atom and beamed to a tomb complex to be reassembled from the inside out, sans armour and weapons, in classic sf matter transmission style.

And once they've got you, they convert you into a new Necron. Just like the Cybermen (or the Daleks now and then). Doesn't matter who you are. Ork, Eldar, Human, Tau, whatever. Pariah gene people might be especially useful, but it works on most humanoid races. Anything the Necrons can't convert, such as a Tyranid or a vehicle, they just destroy.

That would make the whole 'harvesting' angle much scarier IMO. Necrons don't just kill planetary populations and leave no trace--they vanish them because they're converting them all into fresh Necrons. Possibly the victims remain aware in some sense, forced to obey orders in an 'I have no mouth and I must scream' situation. Or maybe they're stripped of all emotion--which would deprive the Warp of emotional energy.

The more they kill, the more Necrons there are--just like fantasy Undead--and the weaker the Warp becomes. So there's no need to muck around with complicated hints about pariah genes and ancient devices to cut off the Warp from the real universe. All the Necrons have to do is go to war. It's very hard to permanently destroy a Necron once it's created (it just phases out)... but every enemy killed by a Necron is added to their ranks. Every victory creates fresh troops and calms the raging emotions of the galaxy.

Eventually, when every sapient being is a robotic zombie, Chaos will flicker and die out and the galaxy will be at peace. The peace... of the grave! Dun dun dun.

It's just a rough fanwank idea that would need a bit of finessing, but there you go.




I really like this.

My pet theory was always that the Necrons wanted to kill the warp gods by killing their food, basically every sentient being in the galaxy.

They are the lords of Order, and there's nothing more orderly than a dead world.

And they're whispering to the Emperor... Here's a way to put down your burden, join our agenda...


Yeah, other than the teleporting gun idea, its a pretty solid concept.
As a oldcron fan, I approve.


Thanks guys Tuomas Pirinen mentioned somewhere (in a convention appearance?) that the opposite of Chaos isn't Law, but Undead. At least in Fantasy.

Just to be clear, I imagine the Gauss-teleporter guns to work just like regular Gauss flayers... with an extra-nasty twist.

The 3rd ed codex describes them as disintegrating you atom by atom--or layer by layer, starting with the skin, then the musculature, then the bones--and pulling the atoms toward the gun.

My idea is simply that the atoms are hoovered up by the gun and sent back to the tomb for reassembly. You're rebuilt from the inside out--skeleton first, then muscles, then skin... inside some kind of holding tank, ready to be processed.

(I should probably use the term 'matter transmission' rather than 'teleportation'. The former is more classic science fiction, appropriate to Necrons, while the latter is associated with the warp in 40K.)

To any observer, it still *looks* like the target is being flayed alive. And it definitely feels like it. But the nightmare doesn't end there...

In modelling terms this could help justify the infamous glowy green plastic, which not only appears as weapon rods, but in places like the Monolith's door. You could see that as a visual clue to the relationship between the flayer-teleporters and the door-portals.

It's true that sometimes victims are only wounded, or at least that partial remains are left over. Still, the 3rd ed fluff always emphasised that whole settlements just vanished when the Necrons showed up. As far as I can tell, that's because Gauss flayers leave no trace of the victims in most cases. That's a spooky image in itself--but how much creepier if the victims were also doomed to become Necrons?

Likewise, there are indeed references to Necrons taking the 'unlucky children' (pariahs) away. That's a spooky idea to be sure--but why stop at one when you could harvest the lot? Much more efficient. (And the idea of a Lord carrying a kid in its arms always seemed a bit silly to me.)

It seems simpler to just say they flay-teleport everyone. Makes the 'red harvest' a bit more appropriate. The 'normies' get converted into Necron Warriors, the soulless become Pariahs, and the ones who remember what they were due to a glitch in the processing go insane and become Flayed Ones. (Thanks for that last idea--I like it!)

If the Necrons want to destroy something full stop, they can just let the disassembled atoms drift clear of the gun after flaying the target, rather than bothering to forward the victim to their home address. The flayers are effective as weapons whether or not the additional matter-transmission function is engaged. (No wonder they dislike Tyranids. Damn things don't even make decent robot zombies.)


@Kid_Kyoto: The specific Dalek episodes I was thinking of were the reality TV show episodes from the end of Eccleston's run (the first NuWho series from 2005). I'll admit to a slight Mass Effect influence in the mix too. But the main idea is to get the parallels to the Undead in Warhammer Fantasy a bit more--that "as we are, you shall be" terror of the living dead.

@CthuluIsSpy: Yeah, the story in the back of the 3rd ed codex about the fate of the galaxy if the Necrons win is my favourite bit of fluff in that book. The only section that genuinely feels Lovecraftian and creepy to me.


Undead vs Oldcrons

Thinking about it some more, it occurs to me that if 5th ed Newcrons are Tomb Kings in Space, 3rd ed Oldcrons are Vampire Counts in Space. You've got:

-a mass of mindless, faceless, obedient skelliebots
-ghosts (Wraiths) and beasties (Tomb Spyders and Scarabs)
-fleshy ghoulies that get all gruesome and bloody in your face (Flayed Ones)
-Wights that retain intelligence and personality and can command the others (Necron Lords)
-a small number of immortal, beautiful, sinister, insanely powerful and nigh-unkillable masters who command the hordes (C'tan are even referred to as 'star vampires'...)

Can't believe I never noticed it before. But it makes me feel a bit more comfortable with the whole "C'tan are the real stars of the show" angle.

Of course, the original concept for Necrons appeared when the Undead in Fantasy were one undivided faction, which is why you get Egyptian references as well as gothic horror.


Other stuff

The 65-million-year thing always seemed like the sort of thing a bunch of arts and history majors (i.e. the GW writers) picked because it's the one mass extinction everyone's heard of, even if you're not a science buff or a paleontologist. The trouble is that it has an accepted scientific explanation (a big rock), so it doesn't really fit with the idea of a galaxy-wide plague or bio-meltdown.


It's worth noting that two of the contentious issues--Necrons and C'tan being shoved into the backstory as ancient Big Bads, and moving the timeline forward--were both brainchilds of Andy Chambers as far as I can tell. He otherwise gets a good rap for running 40K back in the day, but the Oldcrons do feel like his personal 40K fanfic idea at times. At least they were introduced gradually, over many years of coy references.


Tyranid fluff

I always thought it was a bit ridiculous that Tyranids have DNA. I can just about buy everything in the Milky Way Galaxy using the same molecule for its genetic template system, maybe through panspermia over billions of years... but creatures from another galaxy entirely? Yeah, sure.
   
Made in ch
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 Kanluwen wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

Fenris is pre Gathering storm, cadia is 13th black crusade 999.M41, so I reiterate my completely correct point, as it stands, the imperium appears to be winning the war, they have not shown adequately that Chaos is kicking arse, they are failing at that, instead we have

Technologically resurgent imperium (small but happening)
Primarysues
Cawl.... ergh
Guilliman being everywhere at once
Those pesky deamon primarchs always "just" losing

the list goes on

Have you seriously not read the big rulebook?

Mortarion corrupted several worlds of the Ultramar Sector. The world of Iax, "once a verdant garden world" was left in ruins with Mortarion withdrawing from a deadlocked fight against Guilliman under the cover of a fething virus bomb.

Check pages 152 to 167 in the BRB. It basically gives brief rundowns of exactly what you're wanting to see in the form of "Chaos kicking arse".

Nameless, throw away worlds mean bugger all both to the narrative at large and it's attempts at giving the atmosphere of 'Imperium on the brink'. It's a failing of the writers that we're told OH NO IT'S THE DARKEST HOUR OF THE IMPERIIUUMM but from the tone, things haven't been going this good in a long time.

Actually the virus bombing served to only make Chaos look weaker. Why? Because they can recover from it. The planets lost in Dark Imperium can be recovered, when previously a Nurgle infestation on the levels of Mortarian getting involved would have turned them into Quarantine Worlds at best. Hell, look at Tallarn for what a virus bombing was previously meant to signal. Now they can just shrug it off, because Gulliman is THAT awesome and the Primarisues just THAT great.

Daemon Primarchs are still just being used as a way of making Imperial characters look awesome because of their immortality. Celestine suffers from this to a degree as well, but they're more willing to drag her through a meatgrinder on account of not being a Space Marine and there's not a dozen of her.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/21 14:49:48


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 Arbitrator wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

Fenris is pre Gathering storm, cadia is 13th black crusade 999.M41, so I reiterate my completely correct point, as it stands, the imperium appears to be winning the war, they have not shown adequately that Chaos is kicking arse, they are failing at that, instead we have

Technologically resurgent imperium (small but happening)
Primarysues
Cawl.... ergh
Guilliman being everywhere at once
Those pesky deamon primarchs always "just" losing

the list goes on

Have you seriously not read the big rulebook?

Mortarion corrupted several worlds of the Ultramar Sector. The world of Iax, "once a verdant garden world" was left in ruins with Mortarion withdrawing from a deadlocked fight against Guilliman under the cover of a fething virus bomb.

Check pages 152 to 167 in the BRB. It basically gives brief rundowns of exactly what you're wanting to see in the form of "Chaos kicking arse".

Nameless, throw away worlds mean bugger all both to the narrative at large and it's attempts at giving the atmosphere of 'Imperium on the brink'. It's a failing of the writers that we're told OH NO IT'S THE DARKEST HOUR OF THE IMPERIIUUMM but from the tone, things haven't been going this good in a long time.
Cadia fell. There are few worlds more important than that. What WOULD you have been happy with? Terra itself?


Considering it's the home base of the Ultramarines Chapter, many worlds have been destroyed in Ultramar, on record. We have:
Percepton Primus
Nuceria (presumably)
Armatura
Sotha
Iax
Prandium
which are all destroyed. That's not exactly insignificant, to be fair.


Actually the virus bombing served to only make Chaos look weaker. Why? Because they can recover from it. The planets lost in Dark Imperium can be recovered, when previously a Nurgle infestation on the levels of Mortarian getting involved would have turned them into Quarantine Worlds at best. Hell, look at Tallarn for what a virus bombing was previously meant to signal. Now they can just shrug it off, because Gulliman is THAT awesome and the Primarisues just THAT great.
I mean, not really?
It will take a VERY long time to recover. Not to mention, what did you THINK Guilliman would do? Leave a daemon world on his doorstep? Of course he'd dedicate forces to making wure that never happened. He's not stupid. I would have thought it more lazy if GW had just said "Mortarion took a planet and Guilliman did nothing to stop the unsupported, logistically-isolated world from thriving".
Plus, what makes you think that Virus Bombing Iax won't make it like Tallarn? You know Tallarn still supports life? And it's supported (and has been for ages, before this was ever relevant) that the Ultramarines are very good at terraforming desolate worlds (Quintarn, Masali, Tarantus and Calth).

I don't know how much you know of the lore, but Virus Bombs have nothing to do with the Primaris Marines.


They/them

 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Spetulhu wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
I really hate the Tyranid fluff.


You're right, "biotech" and living weapons is such a silly scifi trope that one should always mercilessly mock it. Biological matter-to-energy conversion is too inefficient, living stuff would be dead stuff before a hive fleet got anywhere and the bugs would collapse and die in droves if the environment they were sent into - without suits - was the slightest bit off from what they need. Not that they'd be sent anywhere from a dead hive fleet, ofc, living matter just doesn't react well to cosmic radiation.

They don't even have the excuse of being demons from beyond our dimension.


IOW "These extragalactic beings don't conform to what we as humans know about physics so therefore they're stupid."

No.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tyranids are an example of "life finding a way". Over the years IRL, people have been consistently surprised at what hostile conditions life can survive under. People at first though life was impossible in the abyssal zones of the ocean, yet now we know life survives around hydrothermal vents, in absolute darkness and at pressures that would crush most submarines. Bacteria have survived for a year on the exposed surfaces of spacecraft in space. Bacteria have survived ludicrous amounts of radiation, lethal to most other life. Dormant seeds since the last Ice Age have been successfully germinated, none the worse for wear.

Tyranids take that premise a bit further, with the added handwavium of psychic powers. If Space Marines can go into suspended animation for years or centuries, why not Tyranids?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/02/21 18:46:28


 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Ottawa, ON

 Bobthehero wrote:
Bringing back the primarchs, they already have 30k, keep them away from 40k. That or the Ork fluff, can't stand it.


I would argue that primarchs returning in 40k is good because we get to see the daemon primarchs.

Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Arbitrator wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

Fenris is pre Gathering storm, cadia is 13th black crusade 999.M41, so I reiterate my completely correct point, as it stands, the imperium appears to be winning the war, they have not shown adequately that Chaos is kicking arse, they are failing at that, instead we have

Technologically resurgent imperium (small but happening)
Primarysues
Cawl.... ergh
Guilliman being everywhere at once
Those pesky deamon primarchs always "just" losing

the list goes on

Have you seriously not read the big rulebook?

Mortarion corrupted several worlds of the Ultramar Sector. The world of Iax, "once a verdant garden world" was left in ruins with Mortarion withdrawing from a deadlocked fight against Guilliman under the cover of a fething virus bomb.

Check pages 152 to 167 in the BRB. It basically gives brief rundowns of exactly what you're wanting to see in the form of "Chaos kicking arse".

Nameless, throw away worlds mean bugger all both to the narrative at large and it's attempts at giving the atmosphere of 'Imperium on the brink'. It's a failing of the writers that we're told OH NO IT'S THE DARKEST HOUR OF THE IMPERIIUUMM but from the tone, things haven't been going this good in a long time.

Actually the virus bombing served to only make Chaos look weaker. Why? Because they can recover from it. The planets lost in Dark Imperium can be recovered, when previously a Nurgle infestation on the levels of Mortarian getting involved would have turned them into Quarantine Worlds at best. Hell, look at Tallarn for what a virus bombing was previously meant to signal. Now they can just shrug it off, because Gulliman is THAT awesome and the Primarisues just THAT great.

Daemon Primarchs are still just being used as a way of making Imperial characters look awesome because of their immortality. Celestine suffers from this to a degree as well, but they're more willing to drag her through a meatgrinder on account of not being a Space Marine and there's not a dozen of her.



Iax may be recolonized but it'll be NOTHING like what it once was. theworld was a GARDEN WORLD, one of the crown jewels of Ultramar. It was described as "one of the most agriculturally productive worlds in the Imperium" it's loss is pretty signfcigent (I expect Ultramar will have food shortages for a time until they can adapt to it's loss) it's also not some randomly invented world created simply so it could be destroyed, Iax datyes all the way back to the 2nd edition Ultramarines codex. This is an old and valuable piece of real estate that was wiped off the map. Worlds like Iax and Krtonor are pretty important, you can't expect GW do go around killing all the major IoM worlds. Caida was just destroyed, to be frank anyone who says that isn't eneugh needs to give their head a shake

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ca
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





Canada

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 darkcloak wrote:


I agree. Biotech is silly. Maybe if a Tyranid could become a Space Marine, then they'd be cool...


They can't but Space Marines can become Tyranids...


It's because Tyranids are girls isn't it?



Gets along better with animals... Go figure. 
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine



Leominster

Primaris Marines. The fluff is an insult to normal Marines and frankly they could have just said the new Marines were truscale and had better armor to account for the extra wound.

I actually like Primarchs and I like Cawl in concept.


"I was never a Son of Horus. I was and remain a Luna Wolf. A proud son of Cthonia, a loyal servant of the Emperor."

Recasts are like Fight Cub. No one talks about it, but more people do it then you realize.



Armies.
Luna Wolves 4,000 Points
Thousand Sons 4,000 Points. 
   
Made in us
Squishy Oil Squig





Indiana.

GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!

A few years pass.

GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.

Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...

"Gork loves me, and Mork finks I is da best. No puny oomies is gonna kill me, not when da greenest gods in da galaxy is watchin’ me!"


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 BDconrad wrote:
GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!

A few years pass.

GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.

Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...


except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





UK

I agree that making the Necrons become more "humanised" and not soulless Terminator style machines makes them a lot less menacing.

   
Made in be
Courageous Beastmaster





Anything telling us hard numbers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/22 19:58:10





 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Earth127 wrote:
Anything telling us hard numbers.


Have an exault sir

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: