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Made in us
Been Around the Block




Hi, I'm working on a Necron list for playing n00bs ( I haven't played necrons before so I should be a natural). I have forgebane, looking at grabbing Getting Started, debating on getting the apocalypse box (my heart says yes, but my brain says... n00bs caleb you don't need a bunch of vehicles, on the other hand... what are the odds this someday I evolve this beyond n00bs).

Questions.
What codes (factions) are good? maybe it's all but I'm debating based on paint scheme, on the other hand maybe I'll paint sauhtek and who but other necron players would notice.

Should I get the Apoc box? (is it actually worth it? the CSM one was barely, and only because it was $10 cheaper than buying 3 boxes of marines did I get it)

Any commentary on my list?
Anything else I should know/think about before starting to build necrons?

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [60 PL, 999pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 87pts]: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

+ Elites +

Deathmarks [5 PL, 85pts]: 5x Deathmark

Lychguard [8 PL, 140pts]: 5x Lychguard, Warscythe

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [9 PL, 144pts]
. 3x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers [3 PL, 50pts]
. Destroyer: Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Annihilation Barge [8 PL, 113pts]: Tesla Cannon

++ Total: [60 PL, 999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






xenoterracide wrote:
Hi, I'm working on a Necron list for playing n00bs ( I haven't played necrons before so I should be a natural). I have forgebane, looking at grabbing Getting Started, debating on getting the apocalypse box (my heart says yes, but my brain says... n00bs caleb you don't need a bunch of vehicles, on the other hand... what are the odds this someday I evolve this beyond n00bs).

Questions.
What codes (factions) are good? maybe it's all but I'm debating based on paint scheme, on the other hand maybe I'll paint sauhtek and who but other necron players would notice.

Should I get the Apoc box? (is it actually worth it? the CSM one was barely, and only because it was $10 cheaper than buying 3 boxes of marines did I get it)

Any commentary on my list?
Anything else I should know/think about before starting to build necrons?

Spoiler:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [60 PL, 999pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Overlord [6 PL, 87pts]: Hyperphase Sword

+ Troops +

Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 110pts]: 10x Necron Warrior

+ Elites +

Deathmarks [5 PL, 85pts]: 5x Deathmark

Lychguard [8 PL, 140pts]: 5x Lychguard, Warscythe

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Wraiths [9 PL, 144pts]
. 3x Canoptek Wraith

Destroyers [3 PL, 50pts]
. Destroyer: Gauss Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Annihilation Barge [8 PL, 113pts]: Tesla Cannon

++ Total: [60 PL, 999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

All our value boxes are okay, Lychguard are pretty terrible as a 5-man unit, I'd make sure you lock down a really good sale/trade for the Mechanicus portion of the box before you buy it since the Lychguard are useless outside 30-man gimmick lists or in casual games and even then you'll probably want 10 to raise the chances of you getting Reanimation Protocols. Warriors are not the best choice in units of 10, I feel like you need at least 5 more Immortals so you can run a unit of 20 Warriors and 2x5 Tesla Immortals. Gauss blasters are kind of gak atm, I recommend you put Tesla on your Immortals at the very least and it's probably best if you also put tesla on any Tomb Blades you get.

Sautekh is good if you want to bring Unique characters since they have most of the Necron Unique characters, they are also good if you have a lot of shooting. You need a certain amount of Sautekh shooting units before their Stratagem makes sense, but when it does it's devastating. It's our most common Dynasty in tournament lists, the Code is useless to most of our units, but it's good for Doomsday Arks and Doom Scythes which are common in tournament play.

Mephrit is good for RF and AP- shooting units, if you just have a small Battalion or an Outrider with some Tomb Blades and you don't have at least 1000 pts you can make into Sautekh then Mephrit is your backup choice.

Nihilakh is good for Doomsday Arks, Gauss Pylons, Sentry Pylons and Titanic units. Nihilakh is okay for Wraiths and Lychguard with shields. Nihilakh is pretty terrible for other units.

Nephrekh is great for Canoptek units and Destroyers, okay for units with Assault weapons. Mostly we see Nephrekh taken for Outrider Detachments.

Novokh is great for Canoptek units and Lychguard, it's okay for Troops if you're bringing Anrakyr, but it's generally useless for most of our Shooting units.

I'd recommend you build Sautekh or Mephrit, Novokh can steamroll newbs because they don't have the first clue about how to play against melee armies, Nihilakh is pretty much the get carried by your Doomsday Arks or die subfaction which isn't great. Nephrekh is too explosive in terms of first turn charges and relying on various Stratagems to be fun.

The Veil of Darkness is our best relic by far IMO, it's super versatile and a lot of fun to use, I also think it helps capture some the Necron feel because Monoliths and Night Scythes aren't great options ATM so it's our best mobility option outside Nephrekh.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Small units of shield guard are only good for absorbing wounds for characters if your opponent manages to get to them. Otherwise they are a bit useless. They are really expensive for what they are. CA did help them a little, but they are still 28 points each.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/08 08:39:58


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in ie
Deranged Necron Destroyer





Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
dapperbandit wrote:
It's a tactic I'd still like to try. It's undeniably expensive, but also one of the surest ways to deliver Lychguard into combat turn one.

Between the smackdown Lychguard can do to MEQ, elites and vehicles and Nemesor's Counter Tactics shutting down one character's auras it's a great way to disrupt enemy castles.

An underrated benefit of Nemesor Zahndrehk is he can give your melee units an additional attack making Lychguard even better.


I've made some extensive posts on this subject before, but I think there are essentially 2 sensible ways to teleport Lychguard into combat:
Spoiler:


1: An Overlord with the Veil of Darkness Relic, and re-roll charges Warlord Trait.

Only costs 87pts (plus your WL + Relic), put MWBD on the Lychguard and teleport for an 8" rerollable charge. IIRC it gives about a 75% chance of a successful charge.


2: Zhanrek + Obyron + Overlord with the Veil.

The Overlord Veils Zhandrek, and Obyron Ghostwalks the Lychguard to Zhandrek for a pretty much guaranteed charge. This is obviously very expensive, but you can include these units in a list without committing to this tactic, and only use it when the payoff makes it worthwhile.


The Deceiver is only worth it if you go first which means it's not a sensible option.



Imo, it's better to use the Cryptek then it is an Overlord. As Zahndrekh already gives MWBD and Cryptek will give 4+ RP. And it can take the re-roll charge Warlord trait as well.

I have a Youtube. Rage Against The Imperium. Here is the link if you are interested - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0WxDMsMyI7WcChiSfApB4Q

Necrons - Legion of The Silent King - [756-809 PL, 15038-16076pts]
Spoiler:

Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons)
HQ
Anrakyr the Traveller
Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 3
Cryptek
Selections: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light - 2
Cryptek
Selections: Chronometron, Staff of Light - 3
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Staff of Light
Illuminor Szeras
Imotekh the Stormlord
Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Orikan the Diviner
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Warscythe - 3
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light
Overlord
Selections: Hyperphase Sword, Resurrection Orb
Trazyn the Infinite
Vargard Obyron

Troops

Immortals
Selections: Gauss Blaster, 15x Immortal
Immortals
Selections: 15x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals
Necron Warriors
Selections: 100x Necron Warrior
Necron Warriors

Elites

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Deathmarks
Selections: 25x Deathmark
Flayed Ones
Selections: 20x Flayed One
Lychguard
Selections: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard
Lychguard
Selections: 6x Lychguard, Warscythe
Triarch Praetorians
Selections: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Heat Ray*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Particle Shredder*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon*

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
Selections: 63x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Canoptek Wraiths
Selections: 3x Canoptek Wraith
Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer
Selections: 3x Transdimensional Beamer
6x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
Selections: 6x Whip Coils
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Tomb Blades
Selections: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters - 9
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon - 3*
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3x Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
Selections: 2x Tesla Cannon
Transcendent C'tan

Flyer
Doom Scythe - 4*
Night Scythe - 4*


Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark - 3*

Lord of War
Gauss Pylon
Obelisk

* - This unit is magnetized so can be either model e.g. Doomscythe or Nightscythe
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 vict0988 wrote:

All our value boxes are okay, Lychguard are pretty terrible as a 5-man unit, I'd make sure you lock down a really good sale/trade for the Mechanicus portion of the box before you buy it since the Lychguard are useless outside 30-man gimmick lists or in casual games and even then you'll probably want 10 to raise the chances of you getting Reanimation Protocols.

well I already have forgebane, part of how I got to this list, I took inventory of the models I had, and the models I would get if I did start collecting.

Warriors are not the best choice in units of 10, I feel like you need at least 5 more Immortals so you can run a unit of 20 Warriors and 2x5 Tesla Immortals. Gauss blasters are kind of gak atm, I recommend you put Tesla on your Immortals at the very least and it's probably best if you also put tesla on any Tomb Blades you get.

I'm guessing deathmarks aren't so good so I converted them to immortals. What does "gak" mean? context suggests bad. Though tesla carbines look like they're for clearing chaff (and if I go sautek, I don't really need the assault factor).

So lychguard, are you better off taking the sword and shield? or the warsythe? ( I may not use them right now, and get a second destroyer, but, if I build them...)
the annihilation barge, should I build the command barge instead? what do people run as HQs.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/08 19:08:35


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

DakkaDakka has a built in language filter that changes cursewords into other words.
Gak is Dakka's version of excrement.

If you are running warscythes, you'll need 10. 5 is too flimsy, as they don't have an invul.
Sword and board can get away with being in units of 5, but then they are pretty much stuck in guard duty as their damage output isn't great.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/08 19:26:02


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in ie
Deranged Necron Destroyer





Could run a Cryptek with chronometron bc for 5++ against shooting or use Orikan if you want to do the Zahndrekh bus.

Ghost Arks w/ Zahndrekh, Orikan inside, Deceiver the ark, disembark whenever it's your turn, move + advance both Zahndrekh and Orikan then GWM Obyron and 10 Scytheguard.

Kinda expensive to do but if your playing 1k and it's for fun then that list is pretty fun.

I have a Youtube. Rage Against The Imperium. Here is the link if you are interested - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0WxDMsMyI7WcChiSfApB4Q

Necrons - Legion of The Silent King - [756-809 PL, 15038-16076pts]
Spoiler:

Unbound Army (Faction) (Necrons)
HQ
Anrakyr the Traveller
Catacomb Command Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon, Warscythe - 3
Cryptek
Selections: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light - 2
Cryptek
Selections: Chronometron, Staff of Light - 3
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Destroyer Lord
Selections: Staff of Light
Illuminor Szeras
Imotekh the Stormlord
Lord
Selections: Warscythe
Nemesor Zahndrekh
Orikan the Diviner
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Warscythe - 3
Overlord
Selections: Resurrection Orb, Staff of Light
Overlord
Selections: Hyperphase Sword, Resurrection Orb
Trazyn the Infinite
Vargard Obyron

Troops

Immortals
Selections: Gauss Blaster, 15x Immortal
Immortals
Selections: 15x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals
Necron Warriors
Selections: 100x Necron Warrior
Necron Warriors

Elites

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer
Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Deathmarks
Selections: 25x Deathmark
Flayed Ones
Selections: 20x Flayed One
Lychguard
Selections: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard
Lychguard
Selections: 6x Lychguard, Warscythe
Triarch Praetorians
Selections: Rod of Covenant, 10x Triarch Praetorian
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Heat Ray*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Particle Shredder*
Triarch Stalker
Selections: Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon*

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
Selections: 63x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Canoptek Scarabs
Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Canoptek Wraiths
Selections: 3x Canoptek Wraith
Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith w/ Transdimensional Beamer
Selections: 3x Transdimensional Beamer
6x Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
Selections: 6x Whip Coils
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Destroyers
5x Destroyer
Selections: 5x Gauss Cannon
Tomb Blades
Selections: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters - 9
Heavy Support
Annihilation Barge
Selections: Gauss Cannon - 3*
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Canoptek Spyder
Selections: Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
3x Heavy Destroyer
Monolith
Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
Selections: 2x Tesla Cannon
Transcendent C'tan

Flyer
Doom Scythe - 4*
Night Scythe - 4*


Dedicated Transport
Ghost Ark - 3*

Lord of War
Gauss Pylon
Obelisk

* - This unit is magnetized so can be either model e.g. Doomscythe or Nightscythe
 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

So uh, I played against the new obliterators for the first time.
They pretty much one shot my destroyers off the table. Granted, the destroyers were down to half strength because RP is unreliable, but it doesn't matter because CSM can use a stratagem to get units to shoot twice.

Any advice on counter play? Other than spam more destroyers and hope the DDA fires more than 1 shot per round?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 15:21:08


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So uh, I played against the new obliterators for the first time.
They pretty much one shot my destroyers off the table. Granted, the destroyers were down to half strength because RP is unreliable, but it doesn't matter because CSM can use a stratagem to get units to shoot twice.

Any advice on counter play? Other than spam more destroyers and hope the DDA fires more than 1 shot per round?


as a CSM player, focus fire until they're dead, they only have a 5+ invuln so bring AP, 4 wounds a model, and 6 shots a model, so killing even one hurts them significantly. They're pretty much guaranteed to oneshot something. oh, and they have to reroll their profile every time they're selected to shoot, so endless cacophony, they have to reroll their profile.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 15:31:59


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

xenoterracide wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So uh, I played against the new obliterators for the first time.
They pretty much one shot my destroyers off the table. Granted, the destroyers were down to half strength because RP is unreliable, but it doesn't matter because CSM can use a stratagem to get units to shoot twice.

Any advice on counter play? Other than spam more destroyers and hope the DDA fires more than 1 shot per round?


as a CSM player, focus fire until they're dead, they only have a 5+ invuln so bring AP, 4 wounds a model, and 6 shots a model, so killing even one hurts them significantly. They're pretty much guaranteed to oneshot something. oh, and they have to reroll their profile every time they're selected to shoot, so endless cacophony, they have to reroll their profile.


Except its not a 5+, its a 4+ because psychic powers, and -1 to hit them because GW didn't nerf Alpha Legion when they nerfed Raven Guard and gave Blood Axes +1 to cover instead of -1 to hit. Oh, and they're behind a wall of warpflame throwers, so no charging them.
If it were just a 5+ invul and no hit penalty, sure. But with all those buffs and debuffs, focusing them down is a lot harder than it sounds, especially when necrons have mediocre damage output to begin with.

I mean, I get the overall consensus is that the CSM codex has some problems, but compared to necrons they actually have tools at their disposal that works for them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 15:56:59


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 17:10:49


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in se
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm



Stockholm

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.

---- +++ ----

My mother was a woman

---- +++ ---- 
   
Made in no
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.


Are you sure?

Wouldn't you just measure a direct line from start point to end point of intended move if you ignore terrain? Wraithform says nothing about ignoring vertical distance, only ignoring terrain.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.


That's what I thought, but apparently that's not how it works.
I guess that's something that has to be asked in a FAQ.

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Jackson, TN

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
If they get a 4+ Invuln, they either deep struck right near a Master of Possessions (who's shackled to a 6" movement) or are Tzeentch, which means no double tapping.


Isn't there a Tzeentch spell that gives +1 to Invul? Because he had that. He was running 2 battalions, 1 Thousand Sons, 1 Alpha Legion with marks of Slannesh on shooty gits and Khorne on Choppy gits.
The Tzeentch Spell only works on Tzeentch units.


Huh, I guess he flubbed the rules then. It doesn't really matter, after he killed the destroyers it started to go downhill from there.
Another question that arose from the same game - can wraiths go up floors? My opponent claimed as they aren't infantry and can't fly, they can't even go up floors in the movement phase. Now, to me that sounded reasonable, but it does make wraiths a little less appealing.


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.


You do ignore the terrain for horizontal movement. But you must measure vertical if you are going up. Only VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES are limited to staying on the ground floor of ruins.

So you measure a direct line to where you want to go up, then measure up to the floor you wish to stop on.
This is in contrast to FLY keyword models who can draw a direct line to the floor in which they want to land on.
This also applies in the charge phase as long as the model in question is not a BUILDING (Aquilla fortress and Landing pads and the like)

And the rule about ending a Move and staying more than 1" away still applies, thus that shenanigans does not apply.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 21:33:23


 
   
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Yeah, I knew about vertical movement, but my opponent said I can't go up levels at all because its a beast, not infantry.

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Jackson, TN

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, I knew about vertical movement, but my opponent said I can't go up levels at all because its a beast, not infantry.


Did a quick edit above.

VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES are the only keywords that are prevented from going above the ground floor. (page 248 brb)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 21:36:37


 
   
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 Draco765 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, I knew about vertical movement, but my opponent said I can't go up levels at all because its a beast, not infantry.


Did a quick edit above.

VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES are the only keyword that are prevented from going above the ground floor. (page 248 brb)


Ah, so he flubbed it. Thanks, I'll show him that page next time it comes up.

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~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

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Kahi the Uncertain wrote:


The Wraith Form rule states that they can move across models and terrain "as if they were not there". It doesn't matter if the rules for ruins are that only infantry and units with fly can move up them; as far as the wraiths are concerned the terrain piece in question literally doesn't exist.
This is also why wraiths don't need to measure vertical distances, wraiths ignore any and all terrain. If a unit of havocs are standing on the top floor of a ruin, from the wraiths' perspective they are standing on the ground.

By raw this technically means that wraiths can end their move inside other models, but that's shenanigans.


This is FAQ-ed in the Necron errata, vertical movement applies, they can just move through terrain features

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 23:26:32


 
   
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 Draco765 wrote:

Did a quick edit above.

VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES are the only keywords that are prevented from going above the ground floor. (page 248 brb)


VEHICLES, MONSTERS and BIKES can go above ground floor when they have FLY.

DW BIKES can go above ground floor when they are part of a kill team.
   
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 Draco765 wrote:

So you measure a direct line to where you want to go up, then measure up to the floor you wish to stop on.
This is in contrast to FLY keyword models who can draw a direct line to the floor in which they want to land on.

No, you never draw a direct diagonal line for Movement, you can only go vertically or horizontally and units with Fly ignore the vertical movement. I think there were some ITC judges that believed for a time that you had to measure directly with FLY units but that was never the case RAW and now we know that it's not RAI either. I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I wanted to help make it clear since there might still be some people that draw diagonal lines with FLY units.
   
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Jackson, TN

 vict0988 wrote:
 Draco765 wrote:

So you measure a direct line to where you want to go up, then measure up to the floor you wish to stop on.
This is in contrast to FLY keyword models who can draw a direct line to the floor in which they want to land on.

No, you never draw a direct diagonal line for Movement, you can only go vertically or horizontally and units with Fly ignore the vertical movement. I think there were some ITC judges that believed for a time that you had to measure directly with FLY units but that was never the case RAW and now we know that it's not RAI either. I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but I wanted to help make it clear since there might still be some people that draw diagonal lines with FLY units.


Hm, interesting, let's work through this quickly.

First the FAQed rule:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf Page 1:

"Change the second paragraph to read:‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Movement phase it can move across models as if they were not there, and when moving across terrain features, vertical distance is not counted against the total it can move (i.e. moving vertically is free for this model in the Movement phase). If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Charge phase it can move across models (other than Buildings) as if they were not there."

So, as most people understood that, it should be a move following the Hypotenuse of a Right Angle Triangle. https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/12881222_f520.jpg . Plugging in generic numbers, say the model in on the ground 6" away from the point on the ground below where they want to land (in link b=6) , and the actual level they want to go is 6" up (a=6), the model travels 9" (c=8.485... round up) to the point they wish to go.

But, you are saying that it only measures the 6" (b)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/10 12:34:05


 
   
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 Draco765 wrote:
But, you are saying that it only measures the 6" (b)

Yeah. But don't worry if you really love the Pythagorean theorem you still have to use it for melee with Doomsday Arks. I prefer cheating and imagining it has a big base under the whole hull.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/10 16:01:56


 
   
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on the forum. Obviously

Wait, so you DON'T measure diagonally at all times? gak, I've been doing it wrong the whole time then.

Well, at least you can still use the theorem for weapon ranges on a diagonal.

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~1660

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Peace through power!

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On the Internet

So I decided to finally dust off Necrons for the first time in years and jumped into Nephrekh for my Dynasty (So. Much. Gold. I think I'm going to break it up a bit with some dark steel and jade), and mulling over stuff I came up with a rather silly idea to take advantage of the speed the army has:

+6 Wraiths with Transdimensional Beamers
+9 Scarabs
+Canoptek Cloak Cryptek or CCB (which also takes a Tesla Cannon) with the Solar Staff.

With the Cryptek this runs 574 points, while the CCB (which should also take the -1 to be hit WT) runs 636.

The basic idea is that Wraiths can move 18", and for a CP still shoot and charge (shotting gitting on 4s) with 6d3 shots that can also drop mortal wounds before charging. The staff can let you shut down the Overwatch on an Infantry unit, while the CCB can lay in some extra hurt with the Tesla Cannon. Scarabs are a bit slower, but you can use them to help screen the HQ model, or eat Smite.

It's likely only a combo that'll work on someone once, but the idea of running a Cantopek wing up the board, going full disco on the enemy before charging either what's left or something else looks pretty fun.

Downside is that it is very expensive, though dropping the 9 bases of Scarabs from the combo can help a bit (especially since they have uses all over the army, not just here) and can be pretty alpha strike-y. On the flipside it's got an effective threat range of about 30" meaning that you can reach out and touch things pretty easilly, though with the beamers only being S4 it feels like a lot of fishing for 6s.

Anyone else have some thoughts on this before I try building it? You know, other that it'll never win an ITC major since I don't go to those.
   
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 ClockworkZion wrote:
So I decided to finally dust off Necrons for the first time in years and jumped into Nephrekh for my Dynasty (So. Much. Gold. I think I'm going to break it up a bit with some dark steel and jade), and mulling over stuff I came up with a rather silly idea to take advantage of the speed the army has:

+6 Wraiths with Transdimensional Beamers
+9 Scarabs
+Canoptek Cloak Cryptek or CCB (which also takes a Tesla Cannon) with the Solar Staff.

With the Cryptek this runs 574 points, while the CCB (which should also take the -1 to be hit WT) runs 636.

The basic idea is that Wraiths can move 18", and for a CP still shoot and charge (shotting gitting on 4s) with 6d3 shots that can also drop mortal wounds before charging. The staff can let you shut down the Overwatch on an Infantry unit, while the CCB can lay in some extra hurt with the Tesla Cannon. Scarabs are a bit slower, but you can use them to help screen the HQ model, or eat Smite.

It's likely only a combo that'll work on someone once, but the idea of running a Cantopek wing up the board, going full disco on the enemy before charging either what's left or something else looks pretty fun.

Downside is that it is very expensive, though dropping the 9 bases of Scarabs from the combo can help a bit (especially since they have uses all over the army, not just here) and can be pretty alpha strike-y. On the flipside it's got an effective threat range of about 30" meaning that you can reach out and touch things pretty easilly, though with the beamers only being S4 it feels like a lot of fishing for 6s.

Anyone else have some thoughts on this before I try building it? You know, other that it'll never win an ITC major since I don't go to those.

You are better off without the transdimensional beamers, too expensive, at least build them without it and just proxy the naked Wraiths as disco Wraiths for the one game it'll take you to regret it. Nephrekh Scarabs and Wraiths are amazing. The Cryptek is nice, there's a Stratagem that allows you to get Wraiths back and going from 5+ to 4+ is nice, the CCB is okay if you have Tesla Immortals, but quite terrible otherwise.
   
 
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