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Necromunda - mostly only human gangs.

vs.

Kill Team - everyone else?

angel of death 007 wrote:
I don't really get how kill team is going to be that different then like necromunda which already seems like a pretty well developed skirmish game.

40k models instead of gangers. That and the slightly different ruleset.

I haven't seen the Necromunda rulesset. Do they seem compatible?

 xttz wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:
The two kits are £41 and we don't know exactly what else is in there. (new rules, custom tokens and cards have been mentioned).

Not exactly a steal unless the extras are more extensive than has been suggested.

The pricing is a bit skewed in this case because the Ork kit is so old and therefore a lot cheaper than modern kits. There are plenty of newer (and rather overpriced) infantry kits like GSC Acolytes or AdMech Sicarians would result in a ~£10 discount in a starter box.

Absolutely, that's probably the worst value one we're going to see and its meh. Not exactly "having a laugh" pricing like the post I was responding to asserted though.

Bharring wrote:
I haven't seen the Necromunda rulesset. Do they seem compatible?

No, unless you use them count-as AM Guardsmen. (and many count-as weapon to fit what a Guardsman can have based on their codex)

Bharring wrote:
I haven't seen the Necromunda rulesset. Do they seem compatible?

Not really. Necromunda has some additional model stats and differences in what we've seen so far, like using Templates.

I feel like they better be withholding a lot of units or they're just messing with us. In the kill team video we saw a thunderwolf cavalry, and nids have access to lictors and warriors, yet no lychguard/praetorians? No ogryns for crying out loud?

They say they want it to be based off easily converted models, yet leave out ideal multi-option kits that can build many different unit like the ones I mentioned above.

They say they can't leave out really fluffy yet finecast things like eldar rangers, yet forget mandrakes? ratlings?

This is the worst preview ever. We have no idea how the game works or what is even an option for our units, so how the hell are we supposed to get ready? I'm just using pre-existing models of mine until I find out the game is actually worth it. Argh, angry rant over, sorry.

 Mr Morden wrote:
And not even Veteran Guardsmen as they are not included - well you can roll that they are Veterans as background but not select them as a unit - because...........

Just upgrade eone of your boys on the veteran specialist track, it's all good!

Chopstick wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/16/16th-july-kill-team-focus-necronsgw-homepage-post-1/

Flayed one, Guess someone out there is really happy.

Awwwhhhh yes.

Bharring wrote:
I haven't seen the Necromunda rulesset. Do they seem compatible?

Necromunda, aside from having its rules spread out over several books, has a very solid foundation for game play in a skirmish setting. I know the old GW killteam used to still be kinda squad based which really wasn't all that great. Even though it sounds like it gives you a nice assortments of terrain, that I will probably use for necromunda, it seems to be falling a little short on everyones expectations especilly considering they are looking to release at the end of the month. Necromunda, has a pretty solid campaign rules, character upgrades, weapons and weapon upgrades, kinda everything you should have in a skirmish game. I am optimistic for kill team though as i love skirmish games especially with all the terrain heavy and smaller board will make it more versitile to play anywhere. The set up on 40k is pretty obnoxious for a weekday game.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Honestly I just don't get the whole "roll for your background". Like, seriously, I want to CHOSE those things, not roll for them.

So choose, then. It's not like this stuff directly affects gameplay - it's simply a way to give you an idea for a background. If you already have an idea for a background, congratulations.

Well good that the rolling isn't mandatory.
Are we 100% sure it doesn't affect gameplay too? Or is this supposition?

You can read the same articles I've read:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/13/13th-july-naming-your-kill-teamgw-homepage-post-3/

Anything more on the Killteam dice? I don't see them listed on the pre-order sheet.

I find "These random generation tables mean you can quickly create a background for your kill team and all the specialists in it with just a few dice rolls. This is really cool for roleplayers and narrative fans" really weird. Role players are exactly the one who would want to decide their own background rather than role it out...

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Anything more on the Killteam dice? I don't see them listed on the pre-order sheet.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/15/kill-team-one-week-until-launch/

Nothing in the pre-order bumf article.

angel of death 007 wrote:
I don't really get how kill team is going to be that different then like necromunda which already seems like a pretty well developed skirmish game.

From what we've seen so far, it isn't. It seems to be a simplified version of new-cromunda used with existing GW models that they can use as a gateway game to 40k.

Pretty much every aspect of the game is borrowed from Necromunda, but simplified.

Alternate activation: In necromunda, you alternate and leaders/champions can bring regular gang members along with them if they're close together (which introduces the risk of being in Frag Grenade Formation). you perform a full turn, then your opponent performs a full turn.

Kill Team: all models move, then alternate taking combat actions.

Necromunda: The whole gang takes a Bottle Test to see if they start to run off. This is an individual leadership test, but just as with activation, leaders and champions cause nearby regular team members to auto-pass if they pass their check.

Kill Team: Take one leadership check with your leader to determine if your gang loses morale. If you fail, you're at a teamwide -1 to hit.

Necromunda: A model that fails morale runs 2d6" to try and find a location where enemy models can't see him.

Kill team: A model that fails morale just doesn't do anything.

Necromunda: Every weapon has short and long range, with effects pertaining to each. Some weapons have minuses to hit at long range, some are easier to hit at short range but have very short Short ranges (like shotguns)

Kill Team: Take weapon range, divide by half. -1 to hit if in the second half.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I find "These random generation tables mean you can quickly create a background for your kill team and all the specialists in it with just a few dice rolls. This is really cool for roleplayers and narrative fans" really weird. Role players are exactly the one who would want to decide their own background rather than role it out...

They are a few meaningless tables for a little bit of fun. You might be in danger of over-thinking things.

Chopstick wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/16/16th-july-kill-team-focus-necronsgw-homepage-post-1/

Flayed one, Guess someone out there is really happy.

I am. GW actually thought of Fayled Ones. This calls for a celebratory Battle Sister dress to commemorate such a momentous occasion.

Now if they release Necron dice as well Kill Team is going to be like Necron Christmas.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I find "These random generation tables mean you can quickly create a background for your kill team and all the specialists in it with just a few dice rolls. This is really cool for roleplayers and narrative fans" really weird. Role players are exactly the one who would want to decide their own background rather than role it out...

Several explanations for this. Maybe they subscribe to random generation that you get in some RPGs more than player driven creation that other RPGs do (of course they do - it's GW we're talking about). I'll just leave it at that. The rest I can think of are not... polite.

Sad how GW is so far removed from having fluff and narrative in their games that players no longer know how to handle seeing it. These games have come a long way since the days when they were basically an extension of D&D where you fought a battle because that'd be cool.

It would be neat if the team lists include a few special/big options (like Necromunda/Mordheim or Blood Bowl did), but at the same time people need to try accepting this game on its own terms. There already is a game where you can use all your 40K models, it's called 40K. This is going to be different than that, and people who just take it as it is and give it a chance that way are probably going to have a much better time playing.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I find "These random generation tables mean you can quickly create a background for your kill team and all the specialists in it with just a few dice rolls. This is really cool for roleplayers and narrative fans" really weird. Role players are exactly the one who would want to decide their own background rather than role it out...

It works for me (and it's the way I played WFRP 1st and 2nd editions and Dark Heresy); I'm crap at thinking up a background - to the point that I've got more than one nameless RPG character - but I'll happily play out a character that's already written up. Or the tables act as inspiration for one's own ideas.

 Geifer wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I find "These random generation tables mean you can quickly create a background for your kill team and all the specialists in it with just a few dice rolls. This is really cool for roleplayers and narrative fans" really weird. Role players are exactly the one who would want to decide their own background rather than role it out...

Several explanations for this. Maybe they subscribe to random generation that you get in some RPGs more than player driven creation that other RPGs do (of course they do - it's GW we're talking about). I'll just leave it at that. The rest I can think of are not... polite.

Um, what? You fellas do understand that those things aren't ruling each other out in any way?

The fluffside has no strict mechanical meaning. If your group is so inclined, you can use it to spice your games up (like having the hotheaded demoman make an Ld-check to not charge the bastard that wounded him few weeks ago or whatever on the spot fun you agree on), but you can just play matched without any of that just fine. The same with the backgrounds with indexed random generation tables: no-one is forcing you to use them, or to use them in the way someone intended. Please explain to me in any way that makes sense how it would be BAD that they've put some ideas in the book for the players to get inspired from. You don't have to roll, you can just as well browse through the lists and perhaps build on something that caught your eye, or not. That is how every creative endeavour works anyway: you come across ideas and mull them over in your head for some time, perhaps even years, and at some later point you perhaps synthetize something new on your own.

And I call bull on "role players would want to decide", as if that would be some categorical truth. What is true though, is that there are people who like to decide and those who enjoy rolling for ideas, role players or not. Both of them benefit from the fact that the table exists, in any case. Tables are tools, not some restricting scaffolds that ruin your life. They provide you with interesting combinations you might not have thought of and give you something to riff up on afterwards, if you don't get too hung up on what's in them and instead treat them as something to take inspiration from. They are also singlehandedly the best aid for providing place for emergent narratives, especially in a way that is driven by the players (hello, longtime gamesmaster of player driven oldschool sandbox RPG's here ;D).

I read it as just some fun optional tables that some people may use. Is anyone really going to tell someone they have to roll up their army fluff before the game?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlSv1EJF_ia/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1n4fnehmeztne

some pics of the core box

frankelee wrote:
Sad how GW is so far removed from having fluff and narrative in their games that players no longer know how to handle seeing it. These games have come a long way since the days when they were basically an extension of D&D where you fought a battle because that'd be cool.

It would be neat if the team lists include a few special/big options (like Necromunda/Mordheim or Blood Bowl did), but at the same time people need to try accepting this game on its own terms. There already is a game where you can use all your 40K models, it's called 40K. This is going to be different than that, and people who just take it as it is and give it a chance that way are probably going to have a much better time playing.

Agreed. I'm having a heck of a time convincing my local friend group that this isn't just 40k. They look at everything that I'm telling them with these weird... grimdark-tainted goggles and think that it's just going to be 40k but with unit sizes of 1. It'll be a lot easier to convince them once I put models on the table, though.

gunna be a long couple weeks till we get the rules in hand!

 Sherrypie wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I find "These random generation tables mean you can quickly create a background for your kill team and all the specialists in it with just a few dice rolls. This is really cool for roleplayers and narrative fans" really weird. Role players are exactly the one who would want to decide their own background rather than role it out...

Several explanations for this. Maybe they subscribe to random generation that you get in some RPGs more than player driven creation that other RPGs do (of course they do - it's GW we're talking about). I'll just leave it at that. The rest I can think of are not... polite.

Um, what? You fellas do understand that those things aren't ruling each other out in any way?

The fluffside has no strict mechanical meaning. If your group is so inclined, you can use it to spice your games up (like having the hotheaded demoman make an Ld-check to not charge the bastard that wounded him few weeks ago or whatever on the spot fun you agree on), but you can just play matched without any of that just fine. The same with the backgrounds with indexed random generation tables: no-one is forcing you to use them, or to use them in the way someone intended. Please explain to me in any way that makes sense how it would be BAD that they've put some ideas in the book for the players to get inspired from. You don't have to roll, you can just as well browse through the lists and perhaps build on something that caught your eye, or not. That is how every creative endeavour works anyway: you come across ideas and mull them over in your head for some time, perhaps even years, and at some later point you perhaps synthetize something new on your own.

And I call bull on "role players would want to decide", as if that would be some categorical truth. What is true though, is that there are people who like to decide and those who enjoy rolling for ideas, role players or not. Both of them benefit from the fact that the table exists, in any case. Tables are tools, not some restricting scaffolds that ruin your life. They provide you with interesting combinations you might not have thought of and give you something to riff up on afterwards, if you don't get too hung up on what's in them and instead treat them as something to take inspiration from. They are also singlehandedly the best aid for providing place for emergent narratives, especially in a way that is driven by the players (hello, longtime gamesmaster of player driven oldschool sandbox RPG's here ;D).

With regard to "you fellas", I'd like to point out that I am not opposed to the existence of those random tables. You seem to have read something into my reply that isn't meant to be there.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I read it as just some fun optional tables that some people may use. Is anyone really going to tell someone they have to roll up their army fluff before the game?

I think it's funny how we've now repeatedly (I think?) seen that naming your Kill Team is absolutely mandatory as if GW had any way of enforcing that. It wouldn't be hard to suggest it in the same way they tend to point out that games are most fun with nicely painted models on fully realized boards. But making it an actual rule?

Normally I form background without a second thought. It adds to the fun. I do have a problem with being told to have fun already, so my first reaction to reading that on Warhammer Community was to make it a point to only ever play completely fluffless Kill Team. I'm adversarial like that.

drbored wrote:

frankelee wrote:
Sad how GW is so far removed from having fluff and narrative in their games that players no longer know how to handle seeing it. These games have come a long way since the days when they were basically an extension of D&D where you fought a battle because that'd be cool.

It would be neat if the team lists include a few special/big options (like Necromunda/Mordheim or Blood Bowl did), but at the same time people need to try accepting this game on its own terms. There already is a game where you can use all your 40K models, it's called 40K. This is going to be different than that, and people who just take it as it is and give it a chance that way are probably going to have a much better time playing.

Agreed. I'm having a heck of a time convincing my local friend group that this isn't just 40k. They look at everything that I'm telling them with these weird... grimdark-tainted goggles and think that it's just going to be 40k but with unit sizes of 1. It'll be a lot easier to convince them once I put models on the table, though.

gunna be a long couple weeks till we get the rules in hand!

The usual outlets / podcasts / YouTubers appear to have preview copies (at least a couple I know of for definite), so we should start getting actual solid rules info at midnight on Saturday or shortly thereafter. Provided GW don't give us a more in-depth preview in that time.

Just in case this hasn't been posted yet....unboxing shot from FB...

That seems like a lot of terrain!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I find "These random generation tables mean you can quickly create a background for your kill team and all the specialists in it with just a few dice rolls. This is really cool for roleplayers and narrative fans" really weird. Role players are exactly the one who would want to decide their own background rather than role it out...

That's not true at all. I love role-playing and always prefer to roll my characters out randomly whenever possible.