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Hey


Some may know that I managed to find a mint unused 3rd Ed space marine battleforce,

Will be used for veterans, and left with a speeder and 3 bikes so naturally they will be assimilated into the 2nd Company, looks weird having a plastic landspeeder next to a metal one.

With the bike squad I will replicate the 2nd Ed squad box, but don’t know how many bikes to have?

I have found an new all plastic attack bike to go with the squad, I remember back in 3rd Ed the bike squadwas 4 bikes and an attack bike, where 2 of the bikes can select from the special weapons list and the attack bike can upgrade the H-Bolter to a multi Melta

Somehow I have a feeling 4 regular bikes don’t cut it anymore?

Cheers

Sadly bikes are terrible and overpriced right now.

That's...inaccurate at best.

People are just too fixated on the "good old days" when they were absurdly broken compared to non-bikers and could be troops. they are not nearly as good as they used to be, but that does not make them terrible.

Basically speaking, compared to a 13 point tactical marine, the biker costs twice as much (27) but has twice the wounds, twice the firepower, higher toughness and is much faster.

So, durability-wise they are better at taking single-wound guns, but worse at tanking multi-wound guns, the problem here is that plasma is currently THE meta gun of choice.

Shooting-wise they are better, as they can pick their fights better and more often than not be the first to shoot, or first to rapid fire (and at some cases, rapid fire before the enemy gets a shot off), also picking up a special does not cost them their bolters, so you get to shoot both, the added mobility makes the specials far easier to make good use off.

Assault-wise you are actually worse. you only get the same number of attacks per model, with half the model count. you are better at getting there-but worse at actually fighting.



at 107 points you get six bolters and two plasmas across 3 bodies with 2 T5 wounds each. a tac squad of 6 with 2 plasma (if that was legal) would have been 104 points, barely any difference-but the bikes maneuver far better to use their guns, can pick their battles better and are tougher against anti-horde guns while being more vulnerable to anti-elite guns.


Bikes are a more than decent unit. they are a good unit even, but the current meta is saturated with an overtuned 2 damage gun that makes every 2 wound models have issues.
If plasmas get nerfed (price or power) to the point they are not spammed so much-I'd except the bikes to make a big comeback.

They are no longer the autopick they used to be, but they are good, especially for surgical melta teams that you want cheap and fast.

Yeah, I don't find bikes particularly bad. They're not tournament winning/meta-breaking stuff --- but they're not garbage.

Hell I picked up five the other day to build. Just because having options is what an army is all about.

 AaronWilson wrote:
Sadly bikes are terrible and overpriced right now.

I don't really think so. I at least, am fairly pleased with Wolf Guard Bikers with Storm Bolters. They're pretty much points-to-shots and points-to-wounds equivalent to Wolf Guard with Storm Bolters, with better toughness. More relevantly, they can start on the board and naturally move into rapid-fire range on turn 1, freeing up other units for outflanking.

I was a probably little hyperbolic, my issue is with plasma everywhere they just get shredded and that T5/2W you pay for just doesn't matter.

I was going to have a melta and plasma, was considering flamers

But back to the original question how many bikers in a squad with an attack bike?

For CSM at least, bikers are your best source of raw Dakka that actually has staying power. Cultists can get more shots off, but those shots are also one less strength and BS, and are on a FAR less mobile and resilient unit. And with plasma being so rotten good, a MSU of plasma bikers is downright great for taking out select targets. They cant win a game, but they can support your heavier hitters certainly.

 AaronWilson wrote:
Sadly bikes are terrible and overpriced right now.

Really ? Scout bikers are 77 pts. and can unleash 22 bolter shots (actually 16 bolter shots and 6 shotgun shots, but all are S4 AP0 D1) at 12". Doesnt sound terrible and overpriced to me.

Bikes with DA support options are pretty good, if that's the direction you're leaning. Vanilla I wouldn't be so certain though. Depended on which faction.

Bike heavy DA is easily the best Marine list I've made so far though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:


Really ? Scout bikers are 77 pts. and can unleash 22 bolter shots (actually 16 bolter shots and 6 shotgun shots, but all are S4 AP0 D1) at 12". Doesnt sound terrible and overpriced to me.

That was one of the better proposed counters to conscript spam back when that was actually a thing people saw. Those things put out a stunning amount of shots for the points, and I'm surprised we don't see more of them.

 p5freak wrote:

 AaronWilson wrote:
Sadly bikes are terrible and overpriced right now.

Really ? Scout bikers are 77 pts. and can unleash 22 bolter shots (actually 16 bolter shots and 6 shotgun shots, but all are S4 AP0 D1) at 12". Doesnt sound terrible and overpriced to me.

If DA scout bikes had Jink... the world would be a better place to live on.

I'm seriously torn between scout bikers or RW bikes to supplement Black Knights. Ones has more staple firepower at 12", but the other has special weapons and with 2 flamers at 8" it is more or less the same (whilst not even having to hit with them). Also, 3+ and Jink. But more expensive...

 AaronWilson wrote:
I was a probably little hyperbolic, my issue is with plasma everywhere they just get shredded and that T5/2W you pay for just doesn't matter.

I don't really care all that much about the T5W2. The 14" move is what we're here for, because it means they can make RF range on turn 1. That's 200% the turn-1 firepower you're getting, and it starts on the board, so it's also allowing another unit to go into outflank reserve/deep strike if that's the plan.

However, I think that the T5W2 is actually pretty valuable. At T5, it means that they pretty much have to be targeted with heavy and medium guns instead of infantry weapons, which is nice. While their toughness isn't anything to write home about, I don't find it objectionable and find it entirely adequate for the unit.

Guys while the info your providing may help not that I have a problem with it

I just want to know how many bikers are in a squadron for 8th ed?

The squad size is 3-8 universally. You can include one attack bike per squad.

Well, the change to AP makes bikes... Not too bad. But gone are the glory days of scouting bikes ahead with relentless firepower, jink saves, and Hammer of Wrath. Grav guns are not the auto include they used to be (which is good IMO) , and my plasma bikers are actually pretty good. Bikers are still a good melta delivery for codex Marines that can't take assault marine Meltas.

There is no real stand out chapter tactic that fits bikes however. My formerly White Scars are being played with Salamander tactics. Rerolls are kinda Hunter like, right?






Automatically Appended Next Post:
My ideal load has been 4 per squad. I always include 2 specials, the appropriate Combi on the sarge, and an extra bullet catcher.

Another good way to use bikes is to act as bodyguards for psyker bikers. Not much else besides jump pack boys can keep up with a bike, and Bikers are tougher to kill than Jumppack boys. It's a niche to even use biker psykers in the first place, but it's a use all the same.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Another good way to use bikes is to act as bodyguards for psyker bikers. Not much else besides jump pack boys can keep up with a bike, and Bikers are tougher to kill than Jumppack boys. It's a niche to even use biker psykers in the first place, but it's a use all the same.

Biker Psychs From Mars!

I still tend to field my bike squads as 4 normal bikes, plus the attack bike. But I’ll fully admit that I do it mostly due to tradition at this point.

There are some perks to keeping the attack bike in the squad. With some wound allocation tricks it can help the squad live longer. If eating a lot of 1D attacks, you can pile them on it and not loose any firepower until it’s destroyed. Take advantage of wound breakpoints. Nothing game breaking, but some advantage in certain circumstances.

Rybrook wrote:
Guys while the info your providing may help not that I have a problem with it

I just want to know how many bikers are in a squadron for 8th ed?

5 in a wolf guard squad.

I'm not sure if i should give on a storm shield.

 daedalus wrote:
Bikes with DA support options are pretty good, if that's the direction you're leaning. Vanilla I wouldn't be so certain though. Depended on which faction.

Bike heavy DA is easily the best Marine list I've made so far though.


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 p5freak wrote:


Really ? Scout bikers are 77 pts. and can unleash 22 bolter shots (actually 16 bolter shots and 6 shotgun shots, but all are S4 AP0 D1) at 12". Doesnt sound terrible and overpriced to me.

That was one of the better proposed counters to conscript spam back when that was actually a thing people saw. Those things put out a stunning amount of shots for the points, and I'm surprised we don't see more of them.

I think this is one of those times where nobody wants to buy those models. They aren't exactly great looking, and even older Marine players didn't own any of them because they didn't much purpose for several years. Now they actually have a role. I guess.

Regular Bikers are just plain blech though. At least the Chainsword does SOMETHING this time around? Otherwise I'm not trying to fit them in my lists anymore as there's not much point. At least if I had the option of getting them in the Troop slot I would consider them, as otherwise I have better Fast Attack options LIKE the Scout Bikers and Inceptors.

Scout bikers had a few tricks in the past. 5th edition melta torpedo might have been their high point. I liked them due to the massive toolbox of deployment/maneuver tricks they could bring to the table. Rapid firing krack grenades into the backs of tanks out of outflank was always good for laughs. When they got the jink save the 4+ armor was a little less relevant. Some perks in the 10th company formation in 7th as well.

I have 3 and enjoy them, getting another 3 is on my short list of things to buy.

 Nevelon wrote:
Scout bikers had a few tricks in the past. 5th edition melta torpedo might have been their high point. I liked them due to the massive toolbox of deployment/maneuver tricks they could bring to the table. Rapid firing krack grenades into the backs of tanks out of outflank was always good for laughs. When they got the jink save the 4+ armor was a little less relevant. Some perks in the 10th company formation in 7th as well.

I have 3 and enjoy them, getting another 3 is on my short list of things to buy.

Melta Torpedo was regular Scouts last I checked. Storm with Multi-Melta, then Sergeant with Combi-Melta and Melta Bomb. Cheap and disposable.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Scout bikers had a few tricks in the past. 5th edition melta torpedo might have been their high point. I liked them due to the massive toolbox of deployment/maneuver tricks they could bring to the table. Rapid firing krack grenades into the backs of tanks out of outflank was always good for laughs. When they got the jink save the 4+ armor was a little less relevant. Some perks in the 10th company formation in 7th as well.

I have 3 and enjoy them, getting another 3 is on my short list of things to buy.

Melta Torpedo was regular Scouts last I checked. Storm with Multi-Melta, then Sergeant with Combi-Melta and Melta Bomb. Cheap and disposable.

I recall it taking advantage of the scout bikes deployment options and speed to plant 1st turn melta bombs on tanks that hadn’t had a chance to move yet (and thus were auto-hit) Might have been different versions; it’s been a while.

Right, I bought the cheapest squad box I could find on eBay,
I will now have 6 bikers and one attack bike,

Can I ask what the hubbub is about regarding plasmas?

I thought everyone was jacking off to graviton or what ever it is

Plasma is extremely effective for its cost, and if you have a character providing a reroll buff (like a captain or chapter master), you can overcharge without much fear of blowing yourself up. With a profil of S8 AP-3 D2 you can shred elite infantry, and do some solid damage against tanks as well.

Grav is useless. Plasma is way better.

Rybrook wrote:
Guys while the info your providing may help not that I have a problem with it

I just want to know how many bikers are in a squadron for 8th ed?

For non-vet bike squad:
4 when going with 2 special weapons, namely plasma, the sarg and extra bike serves as ablative wounds. This is load out to get most mileage out of your plasmas.
5 when going with 1 special weapons. Generally 5 twin boltguns + 1 special weapon pose little psychological threat and are less likely to be focused down. I tend to get more board time (for obvious reasons of having more wounds/models) as well as lesser perceived threat. The special weapon is in there for pot shots.
3 when going with 2 special weapons and 1 combi - this is my distraction carnifex unit. This load out is terribly costed for EPP (efficiency per point) but it sure draws a lot of enemy fire power.

 p5freak wrote:
Grav is useless. Plasma is way better.

Overcharged plasma is better, with a source of re-rolls. If you are running solo, without character support, grav is a lower risk option. It's not the overpowered underpriced 7th edition version, but a far cry from useless.

 Nevelon wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Grav is useless. Plasma is way better.

Overcharged plasma is better, with a source of re-rolls. If you are running solo, without character support, grav is a lower risk option. It's not the overpowered underpriced 7th edition version, but a far cry from useless.

The Grav Gun? Nah those are actually useless. I'd rather risk overheating every time than pay extra for a Grav Gun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Scout bikers had a few tricks in the past. 5th edition melta torpedo might have been their high point. I liked them due to the massive toolbox of deployment/maneuver tricks they could bring to the table. Rapid firing krack grenades into the backs of tanks out of outflank was always good for laughs. When they got the jink save the 4+ armor was a little less relevant. Some perks in the 10th company formation in 7th as well.

I have 3 and enjoy them, getting another 3 is on my short list of things to buy.

Melta Torpedo was regular Scouts last I checked. Storm with Multi-Melta, then Sergeant with Combi-Melta and Melta Bomb. Cheap and disposable.

I recall it taking advantage of the scout bikes deployment options and speed to plant 1st turn melta bombs on tanks that hadn’t had a chance to move yet (and thus were auto-hit) Might have been different versions; it’s been a while.

Nah I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one. I've even used the tactic myself.