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Chicago

 Ouze wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
And I’m sure Dems would be heaping praises just because Obama did it.


I would say the same thing I am going to say now: While I am dubious it will happen, I am hopeful that this can lead to peace on the Korean continent, denuclearization of NK, and a better standard of living and freedom for the North Korean people. This would be a great accomplishment for this or any other POTUS. Nothing we have done so far have improved the situation, and worst case scenario, we can resume the exercises anyway.




People seem to forget about the concentration camps (potentially death camps?) that the Kim family runs in NK, if those still exist then every single agreement or treaty with NK will be tainted

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
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Even if you manage to craft a deal with Kim on NK nuclear weapons its going to be downright impossible I think to get any serious reform on the HR front. The camps are a vital part of how NK keeps the state together and repress dissent. With that said, it doesn't make Trump's comments on HR any less fething stupid or insensitive.

Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
On the war games and exercises thing, the USA and South Korea have probably wargamed to death

a) defending and countering a North Korean invasion

b) Striking first and invading North Korea.

There's probably 100+ volumes on it by now, so it's not a big deal in my book

And if all else fails, lure the North down the Korean Peninsula, and then hit them at Inchon...

That's not why they do it. Its to train new US troops and the yearly load of SK conscripts in part. If it was just about war plans you wouldn't have to leave the Pentagon. Plus add putting pressure on NK's military to keep pace.


If that's the case, they could take South Korean troops over to Japan or the USA or something and train them there. They said no exercises in South Korea. They never said anything about exercises somewhere else.

It's not like the US military is short on cash these days.

Yeah - exactly.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
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Again, why would NK fall for such an obvious move? The issue is that they train together period, not where they do it. NK knows what its about whether you do it in Japan or SK.

Trump is like a shark, but instead of swimming his mantra is to keep digging. All those people Kim tortured, that was last month. Lets not get stuck in the past people
https://twitter.com/CarrieNBCNews/status/1006512447677755397?s=20

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/06/12 16:18:33


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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Somewhere in south-central England.

The basic point is that Trump has gone off script and promised to halt exercises, without any concession from Kim.

All Kim did at this meeting, in the statement, was to reaffirm the statement he had given back in April, to denuclearise Korean peninsula.

Whether you think this was a great piece of negotiation on Trump's part seems to depend on whether you are a Republican.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

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 Grey Templar wrote:
 Wolfblade wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
I don’t know if you can really say agreeing to not do exercises is a concession. After all we can just start them up again if Kim continues being naughty.

What will really determine if we get change is any future agreements with more concrete conditions.


I'm sure you would be saying this if Obama had made that decision. I completely believe it. You wouldn't hold a double standard whatsoever. Not you!


Don’t really care much about weather we do exercises in Korea or not. What matters is if we have troops there or not.


I take it you've never been in the military and don't understand what the exercises are for, or how important they are to keeping said troops sharp.

Exercises are training so everything becomes muscle memory. How well do you think a sports team would do if they never practiced their sport?


Of course they are important for keeping troops sharp, but that isn’t relevant to this discussion. And given how often our troops in Korea do drills and exercises I think canceling a few won’t hurt their ability to fight NK. NKs ground troops are poorly equipped, malnourished, and out classed anyway.


They're not cancelling a few, they're cancelling all though. And given that SK is normally a 12 month posting, those exercises are very important for those new troops. It's not like just because the previous group went through the exercise the new group gets all that experience too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 16:21:47


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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Ustrello wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
And I’m sure Dems would be heaping praises just because Obama did it.


I would say the same thing I am going to say now: While I am dubious it will happen, I am hopeful that this can lead to peace on the Korean continent, denuclearization of NK, and a better standard of living and freedom for the North Korean people. This would be a great accomplishment for this or any other POTUS. Nothing we have done so far have improved the situation, and worst case scenario, we can resume the exercises anyway.




People seem to forget about the concentration camps (potentially death camps?) that the Kim family runs in NK, if those still exist then every single agreement or treaty with NK will be tainted


Yes, what NK has done has proven that you can essentially do a low-level holocaust without repercussions as long as you do it slowly enough. It's horrible.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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MN (Currently in WY)

So, we pissed off the G7 and had a Presidential summit with NK for... essentially nothing.

What an idiot. I feel dumber for having this idiot as our President. Maybe a SK reporter should throw a shoe at him.

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 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Again, why would NK fall for such an obvious move? The issue is that they train together period, not where they do it. NK knows what its about whether you do it in Japan or SK.

Trump is like a shark, but instead of swimming his mantra is to keep digging. All those people Kim tortured, that was last month. Lets not get stuck in the past people
https://twitter.com/CarrieNBCNews/status/1006512447677755397?s=20

I think you are really thinking too much into this here. They only care if they are doing excersizes near NK. Why? Because each time they have to be on high alert because of a potential invasion. Plus the humiliation factor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Easy E wrote:
So, we pissed off the G7 and had a Presidential summit with NK for... essentially nothing.

What an idiot. I feel dumber for having this idiot as our President. Maybe a SK reporter should throw a shoe at him.

We essentially know nothing right now. Only that Trump says it went better than expected.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 16:50:55


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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Building a blood in water scent

 Xenomancers wrote:

We essentially know nothing right now. Only that Trump says it went better than expected.


So, based on his relationship with the truth, we should assume it went spectacularly bad?

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Again, why would NK fall for such an obvious move? The issue is that they train together period, not where they do it. NK knows what its about whether you do it in Japan or SK.

Trump is like a shark, but instead of swimming his mantra is to keep digging. All those people Kim tortured, that was last month. Lets not get stuck in the past people
https://twitter.com/CarrieNBCNews/status/1006512447677755397?s=20

I think you are really thinking too much into this here. They only care if they are doing excersizes near NK. Why? Because each time they have to be on high alert because of a potential invasion. Plus the humiliation factor.

I'm not, this is ridiculous. The US has around 10K troops participating in every yearly exercise. You're going to invade NK with 10K troops? The 'fear' that the exercise has been a cover for an invasion has always been preposterous. The real issue is that NK thinks its practice for one in the future, and whether you do that in SK or Japan doesn't matter. The US training with SK troops is the issue here.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/12 16:55:50


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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MN (Currently in WY)

Anyone want to talk about Voter Roll purges instead of this waste -of-time PR Summit where the NK's make our President look like a bigger idiot than everyone all ready knows he is?

Here is the opinion:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-980_f2q3.pdf

Basically if you move, do not respond that you have moved, and don't vote for 4-years in Ohio you can be purged from the voter rolls. I'm sure there is more to it.... but that is my brief and probably inaccurate summary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 17:00:53


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North Carolina

 Easy E wrote:
Anyone want to talk about Voter Roll purges instead of this waste -of-time PR Summit where the NK's make our President look like a bigger idiot than everyone all ready knows he is?

Here is the opinion:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-980_f2q3.pdf

Basically if you move, do not respond that you have moved, and don't vote for 4-years in Ohio you can be purged from the voter rolls. I'm sure there is more to it.... but that is my brief and probably inaccurate summary.


It’s 6 years. If you don’t vote for 2 years the state mails a notice to your last known address on the voter rolls. If you fail to respond to the mailed notice and you don’t vote for another 4 years (6years total of not voting) your name is expunged from the voter rolls. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t vote on a future election it just means you have to follow Ohio state law and register to vote at least 30 days prior to Election Day. If you don’t vote but respond to the mailed notice you stay on the rolls. States have an obligation to maintain accurate voter rolls and residents have a civic obligation to vote.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
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 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Again, why would NK fall for such an obvious move? The issue is that they train together period, not where they do it. NK knows what its about whether you do it in Japan or SK.

Trump is like a shark, but instead of swimming his mantra is to keep digging. All those people Kim tortured, that was last month. Lets not get stuck in the past people
https://twitter.com/CarrieNBCNews/status/1006512447677755397?s=20

I think you are really thinking too much into this here. They only care if they are doing excersizes near NK. Why? Because each time they have to be on high alert because of a potential invasion. Plus the humiliation factor.

I'm not, this is ridiculous. The US has around 10K troops participating in every yearly exercise. You're going to invade NK with 10K troops? The 'fear' that the exercise has been a cover for an invasion has always been preposterous. The real issue is that NK thinks its practice for one in the future, and whether you do that in SK or Japan doesn't matter. The US training with SK troops is the issue here.

This agreement does not mean that SK and US can't practice with their armies.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
On the war games and exercises thing, the USA and South Korea have probably wargamed to death

a) defending and countering a North Korean invasion

b) Striking first and invading North Korea.

There's probably 100+ volumes on it by now, so it's not a big deal in my book

And if all else fails, lure the North down the Korean Peninsula, and then hit them at Inchon...

That's not why they do it. Its to train new US troops and the yearly load of SK conscripts in part. If it was just about war plans you wouldn't have to leave the Pentagon. Plus add putting pressure on NK's military to keep pace.


If that's the case, they could take South Korean troops over to Japan or the USA or something and train them there. They said no exercises in South Korea. They never said anything about exercises somewhere else.

It's not like the US military is short on cash these days.

Yeah - exactly.


Isn't the US government running a massive deficit that turns into political jousting every two years or so, creating an ever larger national debt? You got something like 20 trillions in debt, representing around 105% of your GDP and growing (rather fast thanks to trump's economical policies of ''more money now and pay later''). You don't have a lot of money, you have a lot of credit. There's a huge difference between the two.

On Trump and Korea, it seems like an exercise of propaganda from both party. We will have to keep an eye on this in the comming years to see how it evolves. The good thing is that the status quo will remain as Un will be able to stabilise his regime thanks to those recent victories. The problem of hte implosion or explosion of North Korea will wait for a few more years.
   
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Prestor Jon wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
Anyone want to talk about Voter Roll purges instead of this waste -of-time PR Summit where the NK's make our President look like a bigger idiot than everyone all ready knows he is?

Here is the opinion:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-980_f2q3.pdf

Basically if you move, do not respond that you have moved, and don't vote for 4-years in Ohio you can be purged from the voter rolls. I'm sure there is more to it.... but that is my brief and probably inaccurate summary.


It’s 6 years. If you don’t vote for 2 years the state mails a notice to your last known address on the voter rolls. If you fail to respond to the mailed notice and you don’t vote for another 4 years (6years total of not voting) your name is expunged from the voter rolls. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t vote on a future election it just means you have to follow Ohio state law and register to vote at least 30 days prior to Election Day. If you don’t vote but respond to the mailed notice you stay on the rolls. States have an obligation to maintain accurate voter rolls and residents have a civic obligation to vote.


Indeed. It’s actually more lenient than CA. Here if you miss two cycles they stop sending you stuff and make you inactive.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Again, why would NK fall for such an obvious move? The issue is that they train together period, not where they do it. NK knows what its about whether you do it in Japan or SK.

Trump is like a shark, but instead of swimming his mantra is to keep digging. All those people Kim tortured, that was last month. Lets not get stuck in the past people
https://twitter.com/CarrieNBCNews/status/1006512447677755397?s=20

I think you are really thinking too much into this here. They only care if they are doing excersizes near NK. Why? Because each time they have to be on high alert because of a potential invasion. Plus the humiliation factor.

I'm not, this is ridiculous. The US has around 10K troops participating in every yearly exercise. You're going to invade NK with 10K troops? The 'fear' that the exercise has been a cover for an invasion has always been preposterous. The real issue is that NK thinks its practice for one in the future, and whether you do that in SK or Japan doesn't matter. The US training with SK troops is the issue here.

This agreement does not mean that SK and US can't practice with their armies.

This agreement does not mean anything to begin with. The exercises is just something Trump threw out there without informing the US military. And really, practicing outside of SK is never going to happen. We're talking about 10.000 US troops versus 200.000 South Koreans with all their equipment that would need to be ferried over every year, and basically sending half the army overseas when you still have an official enemy right outside your border. Its completely unrealistic if it is even politically feasible. The whole point is that NK wants the US to stop practising with SK, they are going to push that harder now that Trump has already handed over the yearly exercise.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/12 17:40:57


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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Fort Worth, TX

Prestor Jon wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
Anyone want to talk about Voter Roll purges instead of this waste -of-time PR Summit where the NK's make our President look like a bigger idiot than everyone all ready knows he is?

Here is the opinion:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-980_f2q3.pdf

Basically if you move, do not respond that you have moved, and don't vote for 4-years in Ohio you can be purged from the voter rolls. I'm sure there is more to it.... but that is my brief and probably inaccurate summary.


It’s 6 years. If you don’t vote for 2 years the state mails a notice to your last known address on the voter rolls. If you fail to respond to the mailed notice and you don’t vote for another 4 years (6years total of not voting) your name is expunged from the voter rolls. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t vote on a future election it just means you have to follow Ohio state law and register to vote at least 30 days prior to Election Day. If you don’t vote but respond to the mailed notice you stay on the rolls. States have an obligation to maintain accurate voter rolls and residents have a civic obligation to vote.


If that's all there is to it, and there are no hidden shenanigans going on, then I'm cool with that.

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One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
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-

Does South Korea really need American infantry?

They seem a well equipped, well trained, and numerous force.

I'm not saying that the US should pull the plug and walk away

But America won't be fighting in the trenches. They'll be launching jets from aircraft carriers or firing a 1000 cruise missiles Pyongyang's way or something similar.

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deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
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 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Again, why would NK fall for such an obvious move? The issue is that they train together period, not where they do it. NK knows what its about whether you do it in Japan or SK.

Trump is like a shark, but instead of swimming his mantra is to keep digging. All those people Kim tortured, that was last month. Lets not get stuck in the past people
https://twitter.com/CarrieNBCNews/status/1006512447677755397?s=20

I think you are really thinking too much into this here. They only care if they are doing excersizes near NK. Why? Because each time they have to be on high alert because of a potential invasion. Plus the humiliation factor.

I'm not, this is ridiculous. The US has around 10K troops participating in every yearly exercise. You're going to invade NK with 10K troops? The 'fear' that the exercise has been a cover for an invasion has always been preposterous. The real issue is that NK thinks its practice for one in the future, and whether you do that in SK or Japan doesn't matter. The US training with SK troops is the issue here.

This agreement does not mean that SK and US can't practice with their armies.

This agreement does not mean anything to begin with. The exercises is just something Trump threw out there without informing the US military. And really, practicing outside of SK is never going to happen. We're talking about 10.000 US troops versus 200.000 South Koreans with all their equipment that would need to be ferried over every year, and basically sending half the army overseas when you still have an official enemy right outside your border. Its completely unrealistic if it is even politically feasible. The whole point is that NK wants the US to stop practising with SK, they are going to push that harder now that Trump has already handed over the yearly exercise.
An invasion of NK would start with overwhelming air and sea power - very few soliders if any would see action for a few weeks or more. A solider is almost meaningless on the modern battlefield. We conduct massive displays of military power just outside of their waters. The exercises on land mean very little.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
Anyone want to talk about Voter Roll purges instead of this waste -of-time PR Summit where the NK's make our President look like a bigger idiot than everyone all ready knows he is?

Here is the opinion:
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-980_f2q3.pdf

Basically if you move, do not respond that you have moved, and don't vote for 4-years in Ohio you can be purged from the voter rolls. I'm sure there is more to it.... but that is my brief and probably inaccurate summary.


It’s 6 years. If you don’t vote for 2 years the state mails a notice to your last known address on the voter rolls. If you fail to respond to the mailed notice and you don’t vote for another 4 years (6years total of not voting) your name is expunged from the voter rolls. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t vote on a future election it just means you have to follow Ohio state law and register to vote at least 30 days prior to Election Day. If you don’t vote but respond to the mailed notice you stay on the rolls. States have an obligation to maintain accurate voter rolls and residents have a civic obligation to vote.


If that's all there is to it, and there are no hidden shenanigans going on, then I'm cool with that.

My apprehension about it is the fact that you have to “ check in” with the state every “x” years in order to use a right... a right that includes not voting. But nothing stoppifng you from reregistering so the burden is really low. Not to mention we put in soft burdens on other aspects our rights


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Does South Korea really need American infantry?

They seem a well equipped, well trained, and numerous force.

I'm not saying that the US should pull the plug and walk away

But America won't be fighting in the trenches. They'll be launching jets from aircraft carriers or firing a 1000 cruise missiles Pyongyang's way or something similar.

Traditionally yes.... it’s the trip wire effect.

While NK may want to annihilate SK, the didn’t want to invit a war with the US.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 17:59:40


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 Disciple of Fate wrote:
This agreement does not mean anything to begin with. The exercises is just something Trump threw out there without informing the US military. And really, practicing outside of SK is never going to happen. We're talking about 10.000 US troops versus 200.000 South Koreans with all their equipment that would need to be ferried over every year, and basically sending half the army overseas when you still have an official enemy right outside your border. Its completely unrealistic if it is even politically feasible. The whole point is that NK wants the US to stop practising with SK, they are going to push that harder now that Trump has already handed over the yearly exercise.


BTW, can Trump actually stop the military excersises in South Korea? Isn't there a Congressional decision on having those?
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Does South Korea really need American infantry?

They seem a well equipped, well trained, and numerous force.

I'm not saying that the US should pull the plug and walk away

But America won't be fighting in the trenches. They'll be launching jets from aircraft carriers or firing a 1000 cruise missiles Pyongyang's way or something similar.
Yeah - SK would woop NK even witohut US support. However - with it NK is one of the easiest countries to destroy with airpower to - it is a narrow peninsula - anti air defenses can be easily removed from 3 directions. Plus any retaliatory missile strike would be easily intercepted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spetulhu wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
This agreement does not mean anything to begin with. The exercises is just something Trump threw out there without informing the US military. And really, practicing outside of SK is never going to happen. We're talking about 10.000 US troops versus 200.000 South Koreans with all their equipment that would need to be ferried over every year, and basically sending half the army overseas when you still have an official enemy right outside your border. Its completely unrealistic if it is even politically feasible. The whole point is that NK wants the US to stop practising with SK, they are going to push that harder now that Trump has already handed over the yearly exercise.


BTW, can Trump actually stop the military excersises in South Korea? Isn't there a Congressional decision on having those?

Hes commander in chief. The only thing he can't order the armed forces to do without consent is go to war. During a war he can do anything with it.

Which is also why it's silly to keep saying things like. "He didn't even inform the military about the decision" - well - he doesn't have to.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/12 18:06:45


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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Chicago

And Seoul would be turned into a recreation of that hive city that the DKoK bombarded for more than 10 years.

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
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On moon miranda.

Spetulhu wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
This agreement does not mean anything to begin with. The exercises is just something Trump threw out there without informing the US military. And really, practicing outside of SK is never going to happen. We're talking about 10.000 US troops versus 200.000 South Koreans with all their equipment that would need to be ferried over every year, and basically sending half the army overseas when you still have an official enemy right outside your border. Its completely unrealistic if it is even politically feasible. The whole point is that NK wants the US to stop practising with SK, they are going to push that harder now that Trump has already handed over the yearly exercise.


BTW, can Trump actually stop the military excersises in South Korea? Isn't there a Congressional decision on having those?
The President, as Commander in Chief, can decide not to hold the exercises. Congress cannot mandate the military do anything, they can nix the President's authorization to deploy forces, cut funding, etc, but they cannot compel an exercise to take place.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Which is also why it's silly to keep saying things like. "He didn't even inform the military about the decision" - well - he doesn't have to.
While true, that said, just because he doesn't *have* to doesn't mean that it's not moronic however. Cancelling large scale military readiness exercises on an offhanded whim with no input or planning is no minor thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 18:11:49


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 Ustrello wrote:
And Seoul would be turned into a recreation of that hive city that the DKoK bombarded for more than 10 years.

Where do you think US air-power would target first? Offensive capability would be removed first.

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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Again, why would NK fall for such an obvious move? The issue is that they train together period, not where they do it. NK knows what its about whether you do it in Japan or SK.

Trump is like a shark, but instead of swimming his mantra is to keep digging. All those people Kim tortured, that was last month. Lets not get stuck in the past people
https://twitter.com/CarrieNBCNews/status/1006512447677755397?s=20

I think you are really thinking too much into this here. They only care if they are doing excersizes near NK. Why? Because each time they have to be on high alert because of a potential invasion. Plus the humiliation factor.

I'm not, this is ridiculous. The US has around 10K troops participating in every yearly exercise. You're going to invade NK with 10K troops? The 'fear' that the exercise has been a cover for an invasion has always been preposterous. The real issue is that NK thinks its practice for one in the future, and whether you do that in SK or Japan doesn't matter. The US training with SK troops is the issue here.

This agreement does not mean that SK and US can't practice with their armies.

This agreement does not mean anything to begin with. The exercises is just something Trump threw out there without informing the US military. And really, practicing outside of SK is never going to happen. We're talking about 10.000 US troops versus 200.000 South Koreans with all their equipment that would need to be ferried over every year, and basically sending half the army overseas when you still have an official enemy right outside your border. Its completely unrealistic if it is even politically feasible. The whole point is that NK wants the US to stop practising with SK, they are going to push that harder now that Trump has already handed over the yearly exercise.
An invasion of NK would start with overwhelming air and sea power - very few soliders if any would see action for a few weeks or more. A solider is almost meaningless on the modern battlefield. We conduct massive displays of military power just outside of their waters. The exercises on land mean very little.

So you shift from saying that the exercise presents a potential invasion to saying it means very little? The naval and air forces participating from the US side are only a small number, far fewer than what would be gathered for a full scale invasion. You can't seriously be arguing that NK fear should be taken serious? The invasion of Afghanistan alone, the world's military butthole, was initially proposed to involve 60.000 US troops in the initial invasion. Are we seriously going to argue that 10K represent an existential threat?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 18:17:21


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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-

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
And Seoul would be turned into a recreation of that hive city that the DKoK bombarded for more than 10 years.

Where do you think US air-power would target first? Offensive capability would be removed first.


There was a video on youtube about North Korean self-propelled artillery. 200mm stuff or something. It's all tucked away in concrete bunkers or something.

Yeah, the USA will know where it is and could probably take them out, but the problem is that if those things fire first, then Seoul becomes a smoking pile of rubble.

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Spetulhu wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
This agreement does not mean anything to begin with. The exercises is just something Trump threw out there without informing the US military. And really, practicing outside of SK is never going to happen. We're talking about 10.000 US troops versus 200.000 South Koreans with all their equipment that would need to be ferried over every year, and basically sending half the army overseas when you still have an official enemy right outside your border. Its completely unrealistic if it is even politically feasible. The whole point is that NK wants the US to stop practising with SK, they are going to push that harder now that Trump has already handed over the yearly exercise.


BTW, can Trump actually stop the military excersises in South Korea? Isn't there a Congressional decision on having those?

As Vakathi said, not really. The exercises are a natural development out of the Korean War to keep the alliance trained. The manner in which they have been conducted has shifted over time and there are years in which nothing was done. This however breaks a 20 year period of active training. Last time they got cancelled it was because the US achieved some actual progress in talks with NK (although NK reneged on them later),now they got cancelled at a whim.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Hes commander in chief. The only thing he can't order the armed forces to do without consent is go to war. During a war he can do anything with it.

Which is also why it's silly to keep saying things like. "He didn't even inform the military about the decision" - well - he doesn't have to.

This is such a terrible argument. Just because the president doesn't have to inform or discuss his opinions doesn't mean its a good idea if he just goes out and does things without them knowing. Yeah, technically he could declare war on China on TV tomorrow and not tell the military, but it would be fething stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Ustrello wrote:
And Seoul would be turned into a recreation of that hive city that the DKoK bombarded for more than 10 years.

Where do you think US air-power would target first? Offensive capability would be removed first.

By which time you would already have tens of thousands of dead.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/12 18:21:14


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
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Here’s the video that was shown to Kim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUajFAl9vDY

Pretty ballsy... but maybe something that Kim responds to...

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