Deathwatch and Harlequins Information / leaks rules

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**Drudge Dreadnought**

the_scotsman wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
Want info on existing DW.

My hopes are INCREDIBLY low at this point.

Any codex that comes out with an emphasis on a new model range has tended to focus almost exclusively on making the new stuff competitive/amazing while leaving anything with an existing model unbuffed from index levels or only minorly buffed.

Death Guard - Plague marines sidelined, many existing popular DG units like oblits and bikers outright removed
Dark Angels - heavy emphasis on adding new plasma-focused Primaris marines, popular existing ravenwing/deathwing line heavily de-emphasized
Thousand Sons - heavy emphasis on the AOS port units available for the first time, not even a single unique stratagem for the iconic Rubric units
Daemons - new Nurgle range is highly competitive, many existing/older models completely left by the wayside leading to nearly every competitive daemon list being nurgle-focused.

with few exceptions, the codexes without new model ranges have been aimed at the existing hobbyist/collector. But so far with marines, only Blood Angels have avoided the Primaris Only Focus.

All of these are only a problem because MeQs and S4 weapons are bad. Regular marines are not bad because GW is focusing on Primaris, they are bad because their stats didn't port well into 8th. Plague Marines got a ton of focus, including new kits, and a whole new line of new ranged and melee special weapons. They are tough and reasonably cheap. But they are still bad because Str 4 ap 0 sucks and can't kill anything.

All of these problems are just problems with MeQs in general.

**fresus**

Davespil wrote:
Galef wrote:
Davespil wrote:
Or, the beta rules might have made this better. The Beta rules say you can't deepstrike outside of your deployment turn 1, but this allows you to circumvent this rule.

Actually the beta rules doesn't allow units that arrive from Tactical Reserves to arrive outside their DZ on turn 1
So it is gonna be very hard to circumvent that if the WW Gate brings in Tactical Reserves, even for the most rules lawyery of rules lawyers
-

Do you even know how rules work? Special rules circumvent the normal rules all the time, that's their purpose.

That's pretty rude and uncalled for.

If you advance and then shoot assault weapons you have a -1 to hit. Battle focus: you dont suffer a -1 to hit while firing an assault weapon even if you advanced this turn. See, the special rule circumvented the normal rule. That's its purpose. The portal can have a rule that let's you ignore the 1st turn restriction of not being able to deploy outside of your DZ. Sheesh...

As I and other said, it's very unlikely that the rules in the codex will contain such exception, because:
- the "no DS on T1" rule is still beta, and the codex are not
- the codex was very likely written way before that beta rule
It's always possible that GW will address it with an FAQ, but it's very unlikely it will be the case when the gate is first released.

**tneva82**

Davespil wrote:
Galef wrote:
Davespil wrote:
Or, the beta rules might have made this better. The Beta rules say you can't deepstrike outside of your deployment turn 1, but this allows you to circumvent this rule.

Actually the beta rules doesn't allow units that arrive from Tactical Reserves to arrive outside their DZ on turn 1
So it is gonna be very hard to circumvent that if the WW Gate brings in Tactical Reserves, even for the most rules lawyery of rules lawyers
-

Do you even know how rules work? Special rules circumvent the normal rules all the time, that's their purpose.

If you advance and then shoot assault weapons you have a -1 to hit. Battle focus: you dont suffer a -1 to hit while firing an assault weapon even if you advanced this turn. See, the special rule circumvented the normal rule. That's its purpose. The portal can have a rule that let's you ignore the 1st turn restriction of not being able to deploy outside of your DZ. Sheesh...

For that to do so that would require post-codex release errata. For one codex was almost certainly written before that FAQ beta rule was came in place(if that rule wasn't the one that caused delay after adepticon what was? Codex was written and finished months ago...). For second that rule is still beta and subject to change so even on super rare chance that particular FAQ entry WAS thought up months ago it would have been stupid to change codex rules to fit with beta rules...

...then again stupid and GW? That actually fits!

**casvalremdeikun**

I kinda wish the Deathwatch get access to the Special Issue Boltgun. That would be phenomenal. Kraken Rounds would be nuts on those. Str 4, 36", AP-3. Heck, even their Storm Bolters will be pretty sweet. So they still have some cool options for the basic Marines.

One thing I really hope for is that those basic blades that every DW Marine has in the kit actually gets stats. Even if it is the equivalent to a Chainsword like the Combat Blade, or even just called Combat Blades I would love it. I don't want ALL of my DW Marines to have Power Swords.

**ritualnet**

Not sure if it's an aside or not, I've got the Dark Imperium primaris marines (which I stuck in a drawer and not touched), would it be easy enough to turn them into Death Watch? I have a feeling their shoulder pads are moulded on though.

**Eldarain**

ritualnet wrote:
Not sure if it's an aside or not, I've got the Dark Imperium primaris marines (which I stuck in a drawer and not touched), would it be easy enough to turn them into Death Watch? I have a feeling their shoulder pads are moulded on though.

Yeah. You'd have to cut/grind them off. You don't have to be all that careful as long as you keep the devastation to where the pad will cover.

**casvalremdeikun**

ritualnet wrote:
Not sure if it's an aside or not, I've got the Dark Imperium primaris marines (which I stuck in a drawer and not touched), would it be easy enough to turn them into Death Watch? I have a feeling their shoulder pads are moulded on though.

They are, but that is nothing a knife and file can't fix. I did that with the Lieutenant for my Blood Angels and will be doing so for the Ancient. It is a pretty quick process. I wouldn't worry about it at all. Cheap way to get a lot of the stuff needed for a couple Kill Teams.

**LunarSol**

For the non Dark Vengeance stuff; how easy is it to swap out the bolter types? do they need pins or magnets or do they just kind of clip in place?

**casvalremdeikun**

LunarSol wrote:
For the non Dark Vengeance stuff; how easy is it to swap out the bolter types? do they need pins or magnets or do they just kind of clip in place?

You mean for the Bolt to Auto Bolt to Stalker Bolt? They are all the same base piece, they just have a different piece that is the magazine, feeder, and scope.

Edit: In other news, I think I am going to pick up another complete Dark Vengeance Loyalist half to make my Deathwatch Primaris Marines. I still think the Rapid Fire Bolt Rifle is the way to go for them. Though I am not completely certain. Still, it is a decent way to get the army going. I have carved shoulder pauldrons from starter set Marines enough times (for my Deathwatch in fact), this should be cake.

**H.B.M.C.**

Eldarain wrote:
Want info on existing DW.

You will get the options that are on the sprue. No more, no less.

**Geifer**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
Want info on existing DW.
You will get the options that are on the sprue. No more, no less.

You sure? In the Deathwatch there's always room for less.

At least we can always rely on Deathwatch getting better Necron swords than Necrons.

**Red Corsair**

Davespil wrote:
Galef wrote:
Davespil wrote:
Or, the beta rules might have made this better. The Beta rules say you can't deepstrike outside of your deployment turn 1, but this allows you to circumvent this rule.

Actually the beta rules doesn't allow units that arrive from Tactical Reserves to arrive outside their DZ on turn 1
So it is gonna be very hard to circumvent that if the WW Gate brings in Tactical Reserves, even for the most rules lawyery of rules lawyers
-

Do you even know how rules work? Special rules circumvent the normal rules all the time, that's their purpose.

If you advance and then shoot assault weapons you have a -1 to hit. Battle focus: you dont suffer a -1 to hit while firing an assault weapon even if you advanced this turn. See, the special rule circumvented the normal rule. That's its purpose. The portal can have a rule that let's you ignore the 1st turn restriction of not being able to deploy outside of your DZ. Sheesh...

Do you know what a beta rule is? Because it appears as though you don't. GW is not going to right a special exception to a rule that is in it's beta test phase mate.

**Silentz**

Ok, I really like the new stratagems posted here. I feel like my Deathwatch Kill Team might have to be extracted from whichever box I've tucked them away in.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/03/3rd-may-deathwatch-a-stratagem-for-every-enemygw-homepage-post-2/

I mean realistically they will probably go right back in the box after proving to still be overpriced 1w models but WOW!

**bullyboy**

Yeah, looks to be a lot of fun. Definitely a thinking mans army as you try to utilize the right strategem at the right time. The 5+ to get a CP back looks to be invaluable as you will run out pretty fast. 2 Battalions does seem feasible as I don't want 3 units of heavies or fast attack.

**rollawaythestone**

Those are some really nice stratagems that help Deathwatch feel like the anti-xenos counter they are supposed to be. I hope they sprinkle a few more into their repertoire.

**the_scotsman**

rollawaythestone wrote:
Those are some really nice stratagems that help Deathwatch feel like the anti-xenos counter they are supposed to be. I hope they sprinkle a few more into their repertoire.

On the contrary, I hope they add a whole lot more non-xenos specific strats. For fighting the Imperium and Chaos armies that are realistically going to be around 75% of your games.

So far, what we have for that is pretty dull. 2CP to add 1 to wound rolls against anything is great (Why that is 8 different stratagems instead of "add 1 to wound roll against any unit" is beyond me) and d3 mortals for shooting your gun is fine, but I'm really hoping that's not all the Deathwatch Specific strats right there.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Anyone else notice that the Primaris Apothecary is in the pictures? Might be one of the few armies you'd want an Apothecary in seeing as everyone is really expensive.

Also the wounding Strategems are lame for the sole reason CSM get one that's generic. For one CP.

**the_scotsman**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Anyone else notice that the Primaris Apothecary is in the pictures? Might be one of the few armies you'd want an Apothecary in seeing as everyone is really expensive.

Also the wounding Strategems are lame for the sole reason CSM get one that's generic. For one CP.

TBF i just realized - this allows multiple units to use the stratagem in the phase. That's pretty potent - if you told me with my thousand sons I could cast multiple VOTLWs in a turn for 2cp, I'd take that pretty happily.

**dan2026**

Kinda gakky that they still aren't doing a Start Collecting Harlequins box :(

**Chris521**

The problem I have with the +1 to wound stratagems is that they negate Mission tactics since you won't ever have a 1 to re roll. I would have preferred +1 to hit.

**the_scotsman**

Chris521 wrote:
The problem I have with the +1 to wound stratagems is that they negate Mission tactics since you won't ever have a 1 to re roll. I would have preferred +1 to hit.

Rerolls happen before numbers modification. They stack.

**Chris521**

Yeah got mixed up

**Galas**

the_scotsman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Anyone else notice that the Primaris Apothecary is in the pictures? Might be one of the few armies you'd want an Apothecary in seeing as everyone is really expensive.

Also the wounding Strategems are lame for the sole reason CSM get one that's generic. For one CP.

TBF i just realized - this allows multiple units to use the stratagem in the phase. That's pretty potent - if you told me with my thousand sons I could cast multiple VOTLWs in a turn for 2cp, I'd take that pretty happily.

Yeah, thats why they cost 2CP even being more limited than VOTLW.

Warhammer Community wrote:As all these doctrines are different Stratagems, you’ll be able to use several in a turn across various different units in your army – handy!

**Nightlord1987**

Wow. That Orks strategem.

**LunarSol**

I like them a lot. Very cool. A shame that the Eldar one is going to be roughly as effective as Overwatch fire though. :(

**Kanluwen**

dan2026 wrote:
Kinda gakky that they still aren't doing a Start Collecting Harlequins box :(

We don't know that for sure. It might be one of the unlisted releases that sometimes happen.

**LunarSol**

Kanluwen wrote:
dan2026 wrote:
Kinda gakky that they still aren't doing a Start Collecting Harlequins box :(

We don't know that for sure. It might be one of the unlisted releases that sometimes happen.

What all releases were announced in White Dwarf? I was just aware of the codexes and warp gate.

**Sarevokk**

Its seems that my rumor/ Source is again 100% accurate^^

**Cephalobeard**

Sarevokk wrote:
Its seems that my rumor/ Source is again 100% accurate^^

Good, now go get me some Knight leaks and I'll kiss your mouth.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Galas wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Anyone else notice that the Primaris Apothecary is in the pictures? Might be one of the few armies you'd want an Apothecary in seeing as everyone is really expensive.

Also the wounding Strategems are lame for the sole reason CSM get one that's generic. For one CP.

TBF i just realized - this allows multiple units to use the stratagem in the phase. That's pretty potent - if you told me with my thousand sons I could cast multiple VOTLWs in a turn for 2cp, I'd take that pretty happily.

Yeah, thats why they cost 2CP even being more limited than VOTLW.

Warhammer Community wrote:As all these doctrines are different Stratagems, you’ll be able to use several in a turn across various different units in your army – handy!

Which is why they shouldn't cost 2CP. Who cares if I'm able to use it on a few potential units when I'm gonna burn 6CP to do that.