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Sarevokk wrote:
Its seems that my rumor/ Source is again 100% accurate^^

And your 100% accurate leak source also listed a Tactical Flexibility stratagem to allow splitting up mixed squads of deathwatch!

Yippie ki ay its the only thing I wanted out of the codex. As they say in frankaiz, mercy boh-coop.

Sarevokk wrote:
Its seems that my rumor/ Source is again 100% accurate^^

You might want to reiterate stuff for the thread then, as it's now 11 pages and nobody wants to sift through that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sarevokk wrote:
Its seems that my rumor/ Source is again 100% accurate^^

You might want to reiterate stuff for the thread then, as it's now 11 pages and nobody wants to sift through that.

stuff we don't know

WWP: 120 points, W14(ish, they said "not less than") T8 Sv3+ 5++. Put it on the board 12" from enemy deployment, 6" from an objective, lets you deep strike out of it (meaning it is restricted by the beta rule).

However, there is apparently no Over 9" restriction on striking out of the portal, and it comes with a special stratagem that works the same as the Emergency Disembark one on the Necron Monolith - so if your opponent pops it you can spend cps to save one unit.

Deathwatch: A "split your squad" stratagem for kill teams, and a generic "deep strike some guys" stratagem.

the_scotsman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sarevokk wrote:
Its seems that my rumor/ Source is again 100% accurate^^

You might want to reiterate stuff for the thread then, as it's now 11 pages and nobody wants to sift through that.

stuff we don't know

WWP: 120 points, W14(ish, they said "not less than") T8 Sv3+ 5++. Put it on the board 12" from enemy deployment, 6" from an objective, lets you deep strike out of it (meaning it is restricted by the beta rule).

However, there is apparently no Over 9" restriction on striking out of the portal, and it comes with a special stratagem that works the same as the Emergency Disembark one on the Necron Monolith - so if your opponent pops it you can spend cps to save one unit.

Deathwatch: A "split your squad" stratagem for kill teams, and a generic "deep strike some guys" stratagem.

I'm banking on the Deep Strike one personally. It was something they did before and even GW can't be that dense in not giving us at least an equivalent.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Anyone else notice that the Primaris Apothecary is in the pictures? Might be one of the few armies you'd want an Apothecary in seeing as everyone is really expensive.

Also the wounding Strategems are lame for the sole reason CSM get one that's generic. For one CP.

TBF i just realized - this allows multiple units to use the stratagem in the phase. That's pretty potent - if you told me with my thousand sons I could cast multiple VOTLWs in a turn for 2cp, I'd take that pretty happily.

Yeah, thats why they cost 2CP even being more limited than VOTLW.

Warhammer Community wrote:As all these doctrines are different Stratagems, you’ll be able to use several in a turn across various different units in your army – handy!

Which is why they shouldn't cost 2CP. Who cares if I'm able to use it on a few potential units when I'm gonna burn 6CP to do that.

I they didn't cost 2CP then you only make it more of an Alpha strike thing, boy.

 Galas wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Anyone else notice that the Primaris Apothecary is in the pictures? Might be one of the few armies you'd want an Apothecary in seeing as everyone is really expensive.

Also the wounding Strategems are lame for the sole reason CSM get one that's generic. For one CP.

TBF i just realized - this allows multiple units to use the stratagem in the phase. That's pretty potent - if you told me with my thousand sons I could cast multiple VOTLWs in a turn for 2cp, I'd take that pretty happily.

Yeah, thats why they cost 2CP even being more limited than VOTLW.

Warhammer Community wrote:As all these doctrines are different Stratagems, you’ll be able to use several in a turn across various different units in your army – handy!

Which is why they shouldn't cost 2CP. Who cares if I'm able to use it on a few potential units when I'm gonna burn 6CP to do that.

I they didn't cost 2CP then you only make it more of an Alpha strike thing, boy.

Which is the shtick of Deathwatch in the first place. Everyone is super expensive so you make the hits count. Making the Strategems that expensive is basically an auto-deduction from where they'd stand on the tier list.

So far, I am liking most everything I am seeing from the Deathwatch. I have noticed something conspicuously absent from all of the pictures. The Repulsor tank. But they have tons of Corvus Blackstar shown. Could it be that Deathwatch Primaris Marines will be able to ride in a Corvus Blackstar? If so, I will be needing two more!

Those +1 to wound strats will be extra mean paired with the rerolls to wound against targets. Even on a basic Bolt Rifle, paired with Vengeance rounds, you are wounding Eldar on 3s, rerolling 1s, AP-3. With the right positioning, you can rip apart a good portion of many armies.

Having both special ammo, rerolls of 1 to wound, and these strats for 1CP would be a huge amount of fire power, especially with the upgrade to battalion CPs. And I don't get why people are knocking the anti-eldar strat. Alaitoc is the main source of most eldar units having -1 to hit, and it doesn't work within range of the strat.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Having both special ammo, rerolls of 1 to wound, and these strats for 1CP would be a huge amount of fire power, especially with the upgrade to battalion CPs. And I don't get why people are knocking the anti-eldar strat. Alaitoc is the main source of most eldar units having -1 to hit, and it doesn't work within range of the strat.

I play Drukhari. You want to use that strat on me? Thats fine, I could use Agents of Vect, but I'm more likely to use Lightning Fast Reflexes. You're now shooting at -2 to hit, if you're target is a Venom or a flyer it's now -3 to hit. Craftworlds have the same stratagem, I wouldn't be surprised if Harlequins get it as well, but they also have a lot of units with an inbuilt -1 to hit and remember if Conceal was cast on a unit the previous turn thats another -1 as its effect wont end until the start of the following Psychic Phase.

Basically, it's 2CP for Marines to shoot at something like they're Orks.

 Imateria wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Having both special ammo, rerolls of 1 to wound, and these strats for 1CP would be a huge amount of fire power, especially with the upgrade to battalion CPs. And I don't get why people are knocking the anti-eldar strat. Alaitoc is the main source of most eldar units having -1 to hit, and it doesn't work within range of the strat.

I play Drukhari. You want to use that strat on me? Thats fine, I could use Agents of Vect, but I'm more likely to use Lightning Fast Reflexes. You're now shooting at -2 to hit, if you're target is a Venom or a flyer it's now -3 to hit. Craftworlds have the same stratagem, I wouldn't be surprised if Harlequins get it as well, but they also have a lot of units with an inbuilt -1 to hit and remember if Conceal was cast on a unit the previous turn thats another -1 as its effect wont end until the start of the following Psychic Phase.

Basically, it's 2CP for Marines to shoot at something like they're Orks.

Are you just ignoring that they had to spend equal or more CPs, and/or powers for that? Having the potential for this extra shooting to make them blow all those buffs is great. It costs more in opportunity cost for them to protect from it than for you to do it.

Only Imperials would get such strong stratagems against specific foes, and pay no penalty for it.

What's a few CP when you have access to Imperial Guard?

Some of us don't want to spend money on another codex for another army we don't play and pay for models we didn't want to use.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So far, I am liking most everything I am seeing from the Deathwatch. I have noticed something conspicuously absent from all of the pictures. The Repulsor tank. But they have tons of Corvus Blackstar shown. Could it be that Deathwatch Primaris Marines will be able to ride in a Corvus Blackstar? If so, I will be needing two more!

You'd seriously hope that the thing that can currently carry BIKES would also be able to fit Primaris in there, but it would certainly be a first

fe40k wrote:
Only Imperials would get such strong stratagems against specific foes, and pay no penalty for it.

What's a few CP when you have access to Imperial Guard?

What the what now?

Imperials have freaking awful Stratagems on the whole. Have you seen the Stratagems that we xenos get?

Rubenite wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So far, I am liking most everything I am seeing from the Deathwatch. I have noticed something conspicuously absent from all of the pictures. The Repulsor tank. But they have tons of Corvus Blackstar shown. Could it be that Deathwatch Primaris Marines will be able to ride in a Corvus Blackstar? If so, I will be needing two more!

You'd seriously hope that the thing that can currently carry BIKES would also be able to fit Primaris in there, but it would certainly be a first

One would think. But honestly, if it can carry Terminators and Jump Pack Marines like a Stormraven, you would think it could carry Primaris as well. Still, I have high hopes. I would love for the Corvus Blackstar to be able to carry them. Technically, they can do so using the Index rules and the rules that allow the PA Primaris Marines. And technically it can hold Gravis Armor Marines at a 1:1 capacity too. I hope that remains. I would love an excuse to buy two more Blackstar.

the_scotsman wrote:

fe40k wrote:
Only Imperials would get such strong stratagems against specific foes, and pay no penalty for it.

What's a few CP when you have access to Imperial Guard?

What the what now?

Imperials have freaking awful Stratagems on the whole. Have you seen the Stratagems that we xenos get?

Xenos players love playing the victim. Waaaaaa, there was an Imperium and Chaos codex that came out in OUR year! Nevermind the fact Eldar and Tyranids came out in ours. But facts don't exactly matter to the wounded egos of Xenos players.

I'm of the opinion that the Land Raider (and all variants) should be FAQed to allow Primaris to be carried. They are large enough for Custodes to ride around in, they should be just fine for Primaris.

It's hardly broken either. Yes, Rhinos should be restricted, but not Raiders.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I'm of the opinion that the Land Raider (and all variants) should be FAQed to allow Primaris to be carried. They are large enough for Custodes to ride around in, they should be just fine for Primaris.

It's hardly broken either. Yes, Rhinos should be restricted, but not Raiders.

I agree. I would actually like to see Land Raiders and Stormravens FAQ'd. But GW has to make money, so I am sure the Repulsor will remain the sole Primaris transport. I could even see them removing the Blackstar's ability to carry Primaris.

The restrictions are clearly just a marketing decision. Rhinos should be the only Astartes vehicle restricted from transporting Primaris intercessors. I'd love to see GW try to do somersaults with the lore to say otherwise. However I feel like if they're gonna make some exception to this, the Corvus and Deathwatch codex would be the most easy to make given its specialized nature.

I just hope DW can mix Primaris and conventional marines, even though it looks less likely. The lore being what it is, having these limited sized forces stationed at watch fortresses they'd be severely operationally hampered if they were unable to mix the two. What would a watch captain do is he needed to dispatch a Kill Team and all he has available is 4 conventional marines and a primaris? - Does the one stay home? -Does he operate as a lone wolf type marine?

The real mixing I'd want to do is with Intercessors and Frag Cannon vets. That would be soooooooo cool.

I'm done wishlisting for now.

I could see banning Gravis Armor, aggressors, and Inceptors from Landraiders, just as I agree that Centurions are too large to carry.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that Blackstars will be able to carry Primaris. If they do I will likely buy another one.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Some of us don't want to spend money on another codex for another army we don't play and pay for models we didn't want to use.

Indeed! Indeed! Indeed!

I’ve brought lot of death watch upgrade kits and unbuilt models, I stopped glue them when 8th rumour was out and my genestealers cult was very unlucky! I brought them just before 8th ed confirmed and 3 months cool down.. only if I wait two week then I can take money back. Bahhhhh!

I can’t buy any more models unless brought models on my wife back!
Any rumours about terminators load-out? If it’s same as index then I would be very piss off! Heh

What is load-out for Primaris? I hope Deathwatch Primaris can carry shield...

the_scotsman wrote:
So far, what we have for that is pretty dull. 2CP to add 1 to wound rolls against anything is great (Why that is 8 different stratagems instead of "add 1 to wound roll against any unit" is beyond me) and d3 mortals for shooting your gun is fine, but I'm really hoping that's not all the Deathwatch Specific strats right there.

Why 8 different? If it would be 1 strategem that says "add 1 to wound roll against any unit" would be LOT worse in most games. Or do you think it's common enemy army has only units from ONE battlefield role you want to shoot?

Now if he has elite, troop, fast attack and heavy support you want to shoot with different units you can even potentially use +1 to wound against ALL. If it was 1 strategem it would be for one unit vs one unit only regardless of how big game it is(as strategems have zero scalability). Now if you have targets and CP's you have lot more freedom.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Some of us don't want to spend money on another codex for another army we don't play and pay for models we didn't want to use.

Well if you are concentrating on one faction only in Imperium that's your choice but then you have to admit you'll handicapping yourself against what GW wants you to do and has made game for. No point then complaining your faction is too weak when you aren't utilizing 100% of it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Anyone else notice that the Primaris Apothecary is in the pictures? Might be one of the few armies you'd want an Apothecary in seeing as everyone is really expensive.

Also the wounding Strategems are lame for the sole reason CSM get one that's generic. For one CP.

TBF i just realized - this allows multiple units to use the stratagem in the phase. That's pretty potent - if you told me with my thousand sons I could cast multiple VOTLWs in a turn for 2cp, I'd take that pretty happily.

Yeah, thats why they cost 2CP even being more limited than VOTLW.

Warhammer Community wrote:As all these doctrines are different Stratagems, you’ll be able to use several in a turn across various different units in your army – handy!

Which is why they shouldn't cost 2CP. Who cares if I'm able to use it on a few potential units when I'm gonna burn 6CP to do that.

Then it would be too powerful. +1 to wound rolls is nothing to sneeze at, especially if you can spam it.

Not a big fan of the anti-xenos strats. Especially considering Imperial guard will make it a 5+ to get it 50% off every use by allying in the usual CP battery. The Tau one is going to be obnoxious since the best way to play around it is to roll each markerlight individually and be a jerk about the timing on when they can use it. It has to be immediate so if they say no on the last one you are free to use either markerlight strategem and they cannot do anything to stop it since they don't "hit." Either way not a fan of silver bullets since it usually makes the units overcosted unless you are specifically tooling a list for an opponent. I'm pretty sure most GK players would happily give up all their anti-daemon garbage if it meant cost reductions across the board. Fluff wise this is going to be super cool for narrative missions and few against many scenarios.

 DominayTrix wrote:
Not a big fan of the anti-xenos strats. Especially considering Imperial guard will make it a 5+ to get it 50% off every use by allying in the usual CP battery.

What you mean by this? Deathwatch has 5+ regeneration of CP on their own and you can't combine the two. So best IG will do over what DW does is provide cheap battallion or two.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Anyone else notice that the Primaris Apothecary is in the pictures? Might be one of the few armies you'd want an Apothecary in seeing as everyone is really expensive.

Also the wounding Strategems are lame for the sole reason CSM get one that's generic. For one CP.

TBF i just realized - this allows multiple units to use the stratagem in the phase. That's pretty potent - if you told me with my thousand sons I could cast multiple VOTLWs in a turn for 2cp, I'd take that pretty happily.

Yeah, thats why they cost 2CP even being more limited than VOTLW.

Warhammer Community wrote:As all these doctrines are different Stratagems, you’ll be able to use several in a turn across various different units in your army – handy!

Which is why they shouldn't cost 2CP. Who cares if I'm able to use it on a few potential units when I'm gonna burn 6CP to do that.

Then it would be too powerful. +1 to wound rolls is nothing to sneeze at, especially if you can spam it.

Yeah it'd be really nuts if three other factions already had exactly that Stratagem, but for one CP instead of two.

Veterans of the long war anyone?

tneva82 wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:
Not a big fan of the anti-xenos strats. Especially considering Imperial guard will make it a 5+ to get it 50% off every use by allying in the usual CP battery.

What you mean by this? Deathwatch has 5+ regeneration of CP on their own and you can't combine the two. So best IG will do over what DW does is provide cheap battallion or two.

The guard ones are better. You can get 5+ on both players strategems if you use both kurov's aquila and grand strategist. Sure you lose out on a reroll for your warlord, but its much safer to have an officer tucked away somewhere generating points than a space marine which you will want to make use of besides holding backfield objectives. Lots of Imperial Soup lists already use this too.

Why can't we fit Primaris in a rhino? Doesn't the top hatches open? Ok their heads will stick out of the top, but it's still possible!

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah it'd be really nuts if three other factions already had exactly that Stratagem, but for one CP instead of two.

Veterans of the long war anyone?

Which is for 1 unit in 1 turn. Not up to 8 units in one turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DominayTrix wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:
Not a big fan of the anti-xenos strats. Especially considering Imperial guard will make it a 5+ to get it 50% off every use by allying in the usual CP battery.

What you mean by this? Deathwatch has 5+ regeneration of CP on their own and you can't combine the two. So best IG will do over what DW does is provide cheap battallion or two.

The guard ones are better. You can get 5+ on both players strategems if you use both kurov's aquila and grand strategist. Sure you lose out on a reroll for your warlord, but its much safer to have an officer tucked away somewhere generating points than a space marine which you will want to make use of besides holding backfield objectives. Lots of Imperial Soup lists already use this too.

Ah well that's true though then again you don't need IG warlord to get that steal from enemy. And still that 50% thing depends on opponent using strategems and is 1 possibility for 1 strategem rather than CP spent.

"why isn't this Deathwatch Stratagem just +1 to wound against any unit, rather than wasting 8 of the Deathwatch Stratagems on the off chance you want to use it twice in a turn?"

"Because rhat would be so broken op!"

"Chaos gets that exact thing for 1cp"

"That's balanced because it's only one Stratagem so you can only use it once"