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fe40k wrote:
I love how people think that no T1 deepstrike = no need for screens, and that army lists will significantly change.

Why?

You still need screens for T2 deepstrikers; and, if you're a gunline, you don't give a feth about needing to move. The only thing will change is that non-gunline armies will have a weaker alpha strike, as more points will need to be spent on durability to weather the first turn alpha strike; meaning less offense, meaning your gunline operates just as well.

Basically.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
BETA - full half by units and PL ON THE TABLE!

If it arrives FIRST TURN ONLY IN YOUR DEPLOYMENT ZONE.

So shooting is the only way to play the game now?

So in regards to the deepstrike rule, what I’m getting from GW is to play Alpha Legion or die.

fe40k wrote:
I love how people think that no T1 deepstrike = no need for screens, and that army lists will significantly change.

Why?

You still need screens for T2 deepstrikers; and, if you're a gunline, you don't give a feth about needing to move. Their army list won't change, and neither will yours.

Lists might not change (I think they will, but no matter), but the pressure to Precision Deploy will be reduced, speeding up deployment.

At this point, if it can deepstrike, it needs a points decrease.

There's very little reason to take deepstrikers, when you also need to take enough durable units so your army doesn't get wiped out ("boots on the ground" rule).

Gunline 40k; probably the most apt description of it at this point.

fe40k wrote:
I love how people think that no T1 deepstrike = no need for screens, and that army lists will significantly change.

Why?

You still need screens for T2 deepstrikers; and, if you're a gunline, you don't give a feth about needing to move. The only thing will change is that non-gunline armies will have a weaker alpha strike, as more points will need to be spent on durability to weather the first turn alpha strike; meaning less offense, meaning your gunline operates just as well.

It gives gunlines 1 more turn of free shooting. Which is a big deal. Aswell as give them a free turn to spread out and deny even more area to deepstrike in for the assault list.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Holy moly - no more multiple saves.

WOW.

feth Iron Hands players huh?

It's about staggering the alpha strike potential over multiple turns. Sure now you only get to do that turn 2 but that is a turn of shooting/ preparing your target gets.

DCannon4Life wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
With the changes to CP. Guard got aassive buff
As the army that can spam CP has even more CP to spam with.

Guard run out of effective things to do with CP, and they've already been able to soft-cap CP, so it doesn't really matter. What this change DOES matter for is allowing elite Imperial armies not NEED to bring along a CP farm detachment of Guard in order to have enough CP to fuel their stratagems.

I don't quite get this reasoning. The reason those armys had few CP to begin with, was that they have trouble filling out detachments. That is still the case.
And the CP farm detachment is even better now at +5, right?

Soo...

 Ordana wrote:

 Kelligula wrote:
True. I feel like Blood Angels are gonna feel that the most. Isn't that their entire schtick!?

Glad my Scions will still be useful. Will just have to rely on my Guardsmen to withstand the storm before they drop in and deal with the tough stuff.

BA are basically dead with these deepstrike rules yeah.
They get 1 DC unit across the board turn 1 (using pre-game move). which are out all on their own and no one else will show up until T2 atleast.

Blood Angels veterans please educate me if you think otherwise... but RIP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Holy moly - no more multiple saves.

WOW.

feth Iron Hands players huh?

GW doesn't even try to hide their complete disregard for them lol

They confirmed not a lot of points changes so I don't think it should majorly change local meta's/ lists. Tournaments will be affected but they always are.

 GuardStrider wrote:
RIP Grey Knights? I mean, their only viable strategy is to deepstrike and assault, if they are forced to wait for the 2nd turn most likely they will be tabled before their army can get in.

Sudden death only kicks in on the second battle round, so if the GK player goes first and initial deployments get tabled they can still bring the pain. If they went second.... Auto loss

 Earth127 wrote:
They confirmed not a lot of points changes so I don't think it should majorly change local meta's/ lists. Tournaments will be affected but they always are.

Point increase for Dark Reapers. Tyrand list got hit by the max 3 limit.

 Earth127 wrote:
It's about staggering the alpha strike potential over multiple turns. Sure now you only get to do that turn 2 but that is a turn of shooting/ preparing your target gets.

Gunlines alpha strikes aren't "staggered".

If they were, there would be a -1/-2/-3 to hit penalty for all shooting in the first round; but the addition that a natural roll of 6 always hits.

Feth melee armies, right?

 Ordana wrote:

fe40k wrote:
I love how people think that no T1 deepstrike = no need for screens, and that army lists will significantly change.

Why?

You still need screens for T2 deepstrikers; and, if you're a gunline, you don't give a feth about needing to move. The only thing will change is that non-gunline armies will have a weaker alpha strike, as more points will need to be spent on durability to weather the first turn alpha strike; meaning less offense, meaning your gunline operates just as well.

It gives gunlines 1 more turn of free shooting. Which is a big deal. Aswell as give them a free turn to spread out and deny even more area to deepstrike in for the assault list.

As a Guard player I can easily see myself nuking anything without having to worry about T1 deepstrike. It feels really dirty now.

The detachement CP change makes it even better to have a AM batallion for CP farming.

MalfunctBot wrote:
Gunline 40k.

I think that the 50% points on the table is a good enough change, it limits deepstrikes without killing it entirely with the deployment zone limit.

R.I.P. Farsight Enclaves.

I believe it is 50% points AND 50% Power level on the table lol... Trying to make Power Level mean something

 Aaranis wrote:
SOUP IS DEAD ! No more Chaos, Imperium, Tyranids or Aeldari keywords can be used !

Soup is still in as far as I can see, they don't understand what soup is. You can still build a AM / Guard battery. Have a separate detachment of Blood Angels, and spend every CP in the Blood Angels detachment.

Unless I missed something which is possible, I have a bad signal in this concrete block I call my work office it cut out several times.

Weidekuh wrote:
The detachement CP change makes it even better to have a AM batallion for CP farming.

Yup; it just further magnifies CP inbalances between armies.

I'm still a fan of the suggestion someone posted - All armies have a base CP (say, 10), and detachments provide a negative, not a positive - larger armies are harder to command than small, elite armies.

 lolman1c wrote:

fe40k wrote:
I love how people think that no T1 deepstrike = no need for screens, and that army lists will significantly change.

Why?

You still need screens for T2 deepstrikers; and, if you're a gunline, you don't give a feth about needing to move. The only thing will change is that non-gunline armies will have a weaker alpha strike, as more points will need to be spent on durability to weather the first turn alpha strike; meaning less offense, meaning your gunline operates just as well.

Basically.

It actually makes screens less important as you don't have to weather the T1 strikes. It doesn't change my list, but it does change other lists.

 Kelligula wrote:

Blood Angels veterans please educate me if you think otherwise... but RIP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Holy moly - no more multiple saves.

WOW.

feth Iron Hands players huh?

GW doesn't even try to hide their complete disregard for them lol

You guys should read the rest of the stuff before you spaz out.

You guys understand the deep strike thing is a BETA rule amd as such can be changed by your feedback right? Why are you bitching about a rule that is both no official and still subject to change.

Kdash wrote:

MalfunctBot wrote:
Gunline 40k.

I think that the 50% points on the table is a good enough change, it limits deepstrikes without killing it entirely with the deployment zone limit.

R.I.P. Farsight Enclaves.

I believe it is 50% points AND 50% Power level on the table lol... Trying to make Power Level mean something

Oh no - a simple way for your opponent to verify that you dropped a proper amount of stuff. How terrible.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Kelligula wrote:

Blood Angels veterans please educate me if you think otherwise... but RIP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Holy moly - no more multiple saves.

WOW.

feth Iron Hands players huh?

GW doesn't even try to hide their complete disregard for them lol

You guys should read the rest of the stuff before you spaz out.

Is it incorrect that multiple FNP doesn't stack?

That does, in fact, mean screw Iron Hands players. They can't even get benefit with their slightly better Dreads!

 Sim-Life wrote:
You guys understand the deep strike thing is a BETA rule amd as such can be changed by your feedback right? Why are you bitching about a rule that is both no official and still subject to change.

No, they do not understand any difference. Even when they saw previous beta rules get modified.

 Sim-Life wrote:
You guys understand the deep strike thing is a BETA rule amd as such can be changed by your feedback right? Why are you bitching about a rule that is both no official and still subject to change.

Because it is likely to be adopted by most play groups just like the previous Beta rules were. And our whining here does not stop us from also sending feedback to GW?

 Sim-Life wrote:
You guys understand the deep strike thing is a BETA rule amd as such can be changed by your feedback right? Why are you bitching about a rule that is both no official and still subject to change.

It's because it shows the designers have no clue what they're doing. They basically said "LOL what are Grey Knights?", which is easily the most hurt army by the change.

 Sim-Life wrote:
You guys understand the deep strike thing is a BETA rule amd as such can be changed by your feedback right? Why are you bitching about a rule that is both no official and still subject to change.

We are discussing it. Because it is a BETA rule and that is the purpose of a BETA rule, right?

So - as I expected. Nothing good in this FAQ. In fact - the 2 biggest changes are about the dumbest thing they could have done.

T1 DS gone - so most melle units will never see play now.
CP changes - uhhh...that's just about the dumbest thing they could have done.

Armies that are almsot unplayable now.
Tyranids (without tyrgons and hive tyrant DS - the army such massive chode)
I guess I can just take 9 Carnifex on 3 data slates - I thought they wanted to stop spam - not encourage it!?!?!

Grey Knights - somehow they made this army worse? I mean...Really?
Blood Angels?
Korne Daemons?
BUFF IG CP generator?

No mentions about -1 to hit stacking and -1 to hit army traits (the most busted gak in the game)

As expected - nothing good comes out of this FAQ. Plus they make the game worse LOL.

This team needs to be fired.

As far as the deep strike limit, they said it was half your units or Power Level, IF YOU'RE USING POWER LEVEL. If you're not using power level, all you have to worry about is the number of units you have.

They also said their were exceptions to the 1st turn deep strike limitation. So everyone who is having an aneurysm over that one should wait until they see the actual FAQs for what they play before they flip out too much.