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 Galas wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Guard has Reece and therefore Frontline gaming in their corner now. They will be good as long as that continues.

...You're aware that Reece's competitive list is Codex: Space Marines, right? He plays Raptors.

That makes sense. Consdiering Guilliman keeps getting nerfed and Ravengaurd have the most busted tactic in the game. Not to mention the only powerful stratagem in the marine codex - which is now effectively the only method for marines to leave their deployment zone other that walking.

Yeah because a single playtester is surely responsible for the design of the Codex: Space Marines.

He is also one of the heads of ITC which gives him significantly more weight than just "a single playtester." I agree that there's no proof its actually him skewing balance, but thinking he has just as much weight as some random dude who showed up on playtest day is pretty mistaken. Especially since a significant chunk of tournament data comes from FLG's app.

StarHunter25 wrote:
I'm on day 3 of "How do I get half my PL of khorne daemons to survive turn 1?". No answers yet. Bloodcrushers went from "Kinda ok if I DotW a big squad in along side a Herald" to "Worst PL usage for deepstrike allowance".

I'd deploy Skull Cannons, Wingthirsters, and Characters down on the board, DS a standard letterbomb plus skulltaker. The real struggle is how to get to double battalion or brigade (because you want the CP - even if just the one letterbomb gets in if you have enough CP to just keep burning them you'll do serious damage)

The one nice thing about the FAQ in relation to guard is it cuts down on the numbers of those goddamn mortars significantly, which means they don't have a super points efficient way of removing infantry outside of lasgun range. 9 mortars, assuming you're playing an opponent competitive enough to do that, removes 7 bloodletters in a round of shooting.

The next best way they have to get upfront shooting is a Wyvern, which deals about as much as 1.5 mortar squads to GEQ/bloodletters, but which costs 93 points vs 27.

Not so fast. I play against a guy with 20 infantry squads and yup, 20 mortars.

The whole 0 line of sight while providing the same firepower thing needs to go. Where's the tradeoff? Yeah the units are less durable, who cares if they don't ever have to move out?

mungkorn88 wrote:
The whole 0 line of sight while providing the same firepower thing needs to go. Where's the tradeoff? Yeah the units are less durable, who cares if they don't ever have to move out?

Yeah... And these units often have insane range too. Even if it wasn't a balance issue (which it is), it would still be super boring. There is zero tactics involved, the attacker doesn't need to do anything in order to attack, and the defender cannot do anything to avoid or mitigate the attack.

Also some tables in our store provide absolute perfect artillery cover, even if you see their deployment zone you cannot fire at them because they sit in a hole in the table.

The 4+ BS that IG players complain about is pretty much redundant with the tons of rerolls that they get. I'd take 4+ bs while having that range and firepower with rerolls over a 3+ bs that most of my deathguard shooting has. I usually don't even reach artillery.

Btw since artillery doesn't see vehicles usually, does that mean you get cover against it? Since the vehicle is in theory 100% obstructed

mungkorn88 wrote:

Btw since artillery doesn't see vehicles usually, does that mean you get cover against it? Since the vehicle is in theory 100% obstructed

If the target vehicle is in terrain, then yes.

 DominayTrix wrote:

He is also one of the heads of ITC which gives him significantly more weight than just "a single playtester." I agree that there's no proof its actually him skewing balance, but thinking he has just as much weight as some random dude who showed up on playtest day is pretty mistaken. Especially since a significant chunk of tournament data comes from FLG's app.

These are all the people and groups involved in playtesting:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/19/the-big-faq-words-from-the-playtesters/

 Crimson wrote:

mungkorn88 wrote:

Btw since artillery doesn't see vehicles usually, does that mean you get cover against it? Since the vehicle is in theory 100% obstructed

If the target vehicle is in terrain, then yes.

What terrain would that be? The vehicle is obstructed by the fact that you do not see it directly through whatever is there on the table.

the_scotsman wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:
I'm on day 3 of "How do I get half my PL of khorne daemons to survive turn 1?". No answers yet. Bloodcrushers went from "Kinda ok if I DotW a big squad in along side a Herald" to "Worst PL usage for deepstrike allowance".

I'd deploy Skull Cannons, Wingthirsters, and Characters down on the board, DS a standard letterbomb plus skulltaker. The real struggle is how to get to double battalion or brigade (because you want the CP - even if just the one letterbomb gets in if you have enough CP to just keep burning them you'll do serious damage)

The one nice thing about the FAQ in relation to guard is it cuts down on the numbers of those goddamn mortars significantly, which means they don't have a super points efficient way of removing infantry outside of lasgun range. 9 mortars, assuming you're playing an opponent competitive enough to do that, removes 7 bloodletters in a round of shooting.

The next best way they have to get upfront shooting is a Wyvern, which deals about as much as 1.5 mortar squads to GEQ/bloodletters, but which costs 93 points vs 27.

Easy peasy for double battalion.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:

He is also one of the heads of ITC which gives him significantly more weight than just "a single playtester." I agree that there's no proof its actually him skewing balance, but thinking he has just as much weight as some random dude who showed up on playtest day is pretty mistaken. Especially since a significant chunk of tournament data comes from FLG's app.

These are all the people and groups involved in playtesting:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/19/the-big-faq-words-from-the-playtesters/

I doubt theres any one person skewing anything who isn't a GW rules writer. From what I understand they simply forward the data and give suggestions, many of which are not heeded. Its GW that looks at the numbers and decides what to do with the information. Its even harder for FLG to "skew" the data when its from hundreds of small tournaments using their formats sending the data to their app (and if I ran a tourney and saw that they had changed what I had inputted I would be furious, you bet everyone would know about it). At the end of the day GW's rules writers are the final stop for all of these decisions, not Reece, not the guys at Nova, not the guys at Adepticon, etc. (and possibly the marketing team if they need to sell more Basilisk kits =P)

mungkorn88 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

mungkorn88 wrote:

Btw since artillery doesn't see vehicles usually, does that mean you get cover against it? Since the vehicle is in theory 100% obstructed

If the target vehicle is in terrain, then yes.

What terrain would that be? The vehicle is obstructed by the fact that you do not see it directly through whatever is there on the table.

Pretty sure that cover saves for being obscured isn't a thing in 8th edition.

mungkorn88 wrote:

What terrain would that be? The vehicle is obstructed by the fact that you do not see it directly through whatever is there on the table.

Ruin, woods or something that works similarly to those. Non-infantry models need to be in such terrain and at least 50% obscured to be in cover (which is silly, but that's the rules.) Note that they don't need be 50% obscured by the same piece of terrain in which they are, they can be obscured by anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Pretty sure that cover saves for being obscured isn't a thing in 8th edition.

It is, but only in conjunction with being in the terrain and only for non-infantry models.

The rule of 3 and tacres beta rule prohibits plasma cms spam. It was nerfed and it was justified.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Pretty sure that the Deep Strike nerf is a nerf to Scions, but what do I know?

Scions got nerfed but gunlines received a huge buff.

Pandabeer wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Pretty sure that the Deep Strike nerf is a nerf to Scions, but what do I know?

Scions got nerfed but gunlines received a huge buff.

Taurox Primes are your friend, BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!

For what little Scions cost compared to how much they can do, the nerf is not going to change anyone's mind on them. They're still abusively good. The fact that the rest of the Guardline army got massively buffed also isn't going to change much either. Your opponents are going to have to come forward to deal with you, and that's when Scions will strike.