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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




CypherF wrote:
Xirax wrote:
Being in cover doesn't give -1 to hit. It increases armour value by one. Fyi.
Eldar Rangers get -1 to hit and +2 to armor save while in cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azuza001 wrote:
So -1 from Alaitoc, - 1 from lightning reflexes (2cp), and -1 from conceal, all good. 3 bikers with flamers advance and fire with the flamers auto hitting and still kill reapers. Otherwise let him waste his command points and conceal and shoot something else. Dev squad with 4 heavy bolters, an armored cherub, and the srg can wreck eldar at 36", just hit them with numbers of shots.
Hum just some stats, 4 heavy bolters, including 1 firing twice thanks to the cherub, at 2+ with the signum, and the rest at 3+, targetting a unit of dark reapers at -3 to hit do an average of 0.777 wounds. And that's not counting the hypothetic Fortune casted on them that (FNP 5+, reducing the result to about 0.5). So I really don't think a gunline unit is the way to go. Bikes with flamers sound better though ^^


Why are you targeting the reapers when they're at -3 to hit? That's what the flamer bikes are for. They have a 28" threat bubble, target priority is key.

Or take a whirlwind and land speeder and use the "auto hit" stratagem to blast them. Either way you have to play smarter. Don't throw your stuff at his toughest thing thinking "if I kill that then I can turn this game to my favor" make him waste those cp and spells. I was suggesting the hb team for the dire avengers / fire dragons and the mortal wound trick. Though to be cheaky it should probably be 3 hb and a missile launcher, you could potentially get 3d3 mortal wounds on a flyer in one turn with it. Potentially.

Or take a land speeder with dual heavy flamers and a whirlwind. Land speeder advances and blasts something then target uplink to the whirlwind for 2d3 str 7 ap-1 auto hits or 2d6 str 6 auto hits. Buh by reapers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/03 13:27:09


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Still, consider those heavy flamer land speeders with Data Link Telemetry, They're pretty cheap and they auto-hit.

If you pair that with something that can threaten his fliers, like a stormhawk or a hunter (or even the humble flakk missile stratagem), you'll leave him having to decide which units to sacrifice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With all this talk of flamers and assault... Have you considered playing Salamanders against him? Assault and flamers is just how they roll. I wonder how well he'd do if you dropped Bray'Arth Ashmantle in front of him. 400 points, sure, but with S8, T9, W8, 2+ 5++ 4+++, and 2 different kinds of flamer, he's going to be all kinds of fun when he hits their gunline.

Or Raven Guard for a taste of his own medicine?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/03 14:18:22


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Azuza001 wrote:
CypherF wrote:
Xirax wrote:
Being in cover doesn't give -1 to hit. It increases armour value by one. Fyi.
Eldar Rangers get -1 to hit and +2 to armor save while in cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azuza001 wrote:
So -1 from Alaitoc, - 1 from lightning reflexes (2cp), and -1 from conceal, all good. 3 bikers with flamers advance and fire with the flamers auto hitting and still kill reapers. Otherwise let him waste his command points and conceal and shoot something else. Dev squad with 4 heavy bolters, an armored cherub, and the srg can wreck eldar at 36", just hit them with numbers of shots.
Hum just some stats, 4 heavy bolters, including 1 firing twice thanks to the cherub, at 2+ with the signum, and the rest at 3+, targetting a unit of dark reapers at -3 to hit do an average of 0.777 wounds. And that's not counting the hypothetic Fortune casted on them that (FNP 5+, reducing the result to about 0.5). So I really don't think a gunline unit is the way to go. Bikes with flamers sound better though ^^


Why are you targeting the reapers when they're at -3 to hit? That's what the flamer bikes are for. They have a 28" threat bubble, target priority is key.

Or take a whirlwind and land speeder and use the "auto hit" stratagem to blast them. Either way you have to play smarter. Don't throw your stuff at his toughest thing thinking "if I kill that then I can turn this game to my favor" make him waste those cp and spells. I was suggesting the hb team for the dire avengers / fire dragons and the mortal wound trick. Though to be cheaky it should probably be 3 hb and a missile launcher, you could potentially get 3d3 mortal wounds on a flyer in one turn with it. Potentially.

Or take a land speeder with dual heavy flamers and a whirlwind. Land speeder advances and blasts something then target uplink to the whirlwind for 2d3 str 7 ap-1 auto hits or 2d6 str 6 auto hits. Buh by reapers.


The only problem with this, is how do you get the Landspeeder within 12” of the Reapers.

They have to start on the table and have a move of 16”. They are also 80 points a pop minimum and will easily die. They also don’t benefit from chapter tactics due to them not being a “Biker”.

Also, if you’re running duel heavy flamer, then the cost shoots up to 104pts and, you can’t shoot the flamers if you advance, due to them being heavy weapons.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Kdash wrote:

The only problem with this, is how do you get the Landspeeder within 12” of the Reapers.

They have to start on the table and have a move of 16”. They are also 80 points a pop minimum and will easily die. They also don’t benefit from chapter tactics due to them not being a “Biker”.

Also, if you’re running duel heavy flamer, then the cost shoots up to 104pts and, you can’t shoot the flamers if you advance, due to them being heavy weapons.


Due to grav wash, you get a 20" move with 3 speeders. The point of using them with heavy flamers is to create a threat that the Alaitoc player can't ignore. If he doesn't target the speeders, he will lose a lot of units fast. He's sunk a lot of points into hit modifiers, but flamers don't care. So, it's a bet. Can he take out 3 speeders before they get within 8"? If not, he will suffer both flamer auto-hits and whirlwind autohits. So, he HAS to focus on the speeders.

Meanwhile, you can make that a tough choice by using a dedicated AA platform to target his fliers and skimmers. To make that decision extra difficult, you can drop sturdy deep-strike troops, like terminators in.

Scouts might be a good option due to concealed positions. You might be able to create a protected forward position. With sniper rifles, you should be able to harass his characters.

Jump-pack troops should be able to close the gap quickly and get into CC. If you can get them behind cover half-way across the board, you could potentially get a T2 charge without a deep strike.

If he's got to face down jump-pack assault on one side and land speeders that auto-hit on the other, and an anti-air platform targetting his fliers, it's not going to be an obvious choice what to target. And that's what you want.

You can build an army specifically tailored to take him out. That will be lots of flamers, lots of fast-attack, and lots of infiltrators. Get in close with auto-hit weapons and CC weapons. Threaten multiple units at the same time to force him to choose which units to protect. If you can get him distracted that way, you might get additional value out of deep strike. Terminators will land inside of rapid-fire range, which makes them extra-threatening: 20 bolter shots isn't nothing, even with the hit modifier, and they create a big CC threat window, which forces him to deal with them and ignore something else.
   
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




You may also want to consider stormhawks. They're pretty good AA platforms that move quickly and aren't that easily brought down.
   
Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




Annirak wrote:
Oh and against all those grav tanks, consider taking a stormhawk interceptor. It will force him to decide between losing his grav tanks and attacking the landspeeders, which is exactly the kind of tactical catch-22 you want to force.
Dark Angels don't have access to the StormHawk.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





With the way armies are built ever since like 6th ed effectively they do. Just get cheap ultramarine/blood angel/whatever detachment along. These days "Dark angels" or "blood angels" is bad way of looking at army anyway. It's Imperium with various shades of focus on specific factions. You can even paint it dark angels if you don't like different colour schemes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/03 16:56:43


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Forget the Stormhawk. Get a sicaran battle tank. Even if the eldar player stacks -100 to hit, the gun on the tank simply ignores any penalties to hit, if its shooting a FLY unit.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 p5freak wrote:
Forget the Stormhawk. Get a sicaran battle tank. Even if the eldar player stacks -100 to hit, the gun on the tank simply ignores any penalties to hit, if its shooting a FLY unit.


Seriously? Somehow I doubt GW intended it to work like that but then again wouldn't surprise me if they managed to screw up rule text like that.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





CypherF wrote:
Annirak wrote:
Oh and against all those grav tanks, consider taking a stormhawk interceptor. It will force him to decide between losing his grav tanks and attacking the landspeeders, which is exactly the kind of tactical catch-22 you want to force.
Dark Angels don't have access to the StormHawk.


How about a Xiphon Interceptor, then?
   
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Germany

tneva82 wrote:

Seriously? Somehow I doubt GW intended it to work like that but then again wouldn't surprise me if they managed to screw up rule text like that.


Yes, seriously.
   
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Norn Queen






There is nothing you can do other than start a different army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Forget the Stormhawk. Get a sicaran battle tank. Even if the eldar player stacks -100 to hit, the gun on the tank simply ignores any penalties to hit, if its shooting a FLY unit.


Seriously? Somehow I doubt GW intended it to work like that but then again wouldn't surprise me if they managed to screw up rule text like that.
We already discussed this in detail. The rule is explicitly clear and is in a book that uses the "proper" +1 to hit vs FLY instead of ignoring negatives, so it's 100% deliberate.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/03 19:09:02


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 BaconCatBug wrote:
There is nothing you can do other than start a different army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Forget the Stormhawk. Get a sicaran battle tank. Even if the eldar player stacks -100 to hit, the gun on the tank simply ignores any penalties to hit, if its shooting a FLY unit.


Seriously? Somehow I doubt GW intended it to work like that but then again wouldn't surprise me if they managed to screw up rule text like that.
We already discussed this in detail. The rule is explicitly clear and is in a book that uses the "proper" +1 to hit vs FLY instead of ignoring negatives, so it's 100% deliberate.


Looking at the stats of that tank... for 165 points, it’s awesome! And it’s an absolutely beautiful counter to Alaitoc grav tanks.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yes the land speeders with heavy flamers can't shoot if they advanced, but 3 of them like mentioned get 20" movements plus d6 from advance, then speed of the raven allows them to shoot so that's a threat bubble of 29-35"? Take 1 with dual flamers, 1 with flamer and heavy bolters, and 1 with a heavy bolter for wounds, and enjoy those 4++ saves while making him sweat. Add that whirlwind in for its auto hits, again I am not saying it will be easy because it won't, but I am saying you have some options to try.

Also I love the idea of scouts. Small 5 man bolter or combat squads all over the place putting pressure on him first turn.
   
Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




I just wanna react to the Whilrlwind option, I did the maths and even with the Datalink Telemetry stratagem, shooting at the Reapers in cover (and they will be if not in the Wave Serpent), it gives 0.972 wounds with the Castellan missiles and 1.111 with the Vengeance. That's with the auto-hit of the stratagem. I'm not an expert, but I don't think that's worth the ~100 pts does it?

Also a question, I know how good the Speed of the Raven is but isn't one big unit of Speeders making things easy for him. With the Reapers he has the potential to destroy two in one go, whereas if slit it becomes harder, doesn't it?
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




So, for 312 points, you get 3 landspeeders with heavy flamers that will move, on average 23” on the first turn. (Your loadout comes to 281 points) Add on the 104 points for the Whirlwind (without Hunter Killer) and you’re looking at 385 and 1 CP (potentially 2 if you need to re-roll the advance distance). And, then a 3rd if you then want to fire the weapons on the Speeders.

It is a really big investment to essentially kill 1 Dark Reaper hiding in cover at the back of the table. If you then want to add in a Lieutenant, you now kill 2 units, but, at a cost of 385 + a basic Lieutenant.

It could work, but, it is a 1 trick pony that is easily countered by Eldar. Essentially, all they need to do is one of the following –
Deploy the key unit after the speeders (if possible)
Deploy in the webway
Use a Wave Serpent
Backline the key unit (means it’s a 50/50 on whether they get into range)
If they go first – kill 1 speeder (then again, based on the expected dmg output from the Whirlwind, they could just be ignored)
If they go first, move a blocking unit up a few inches to ensure the speeders can’t get into range
Also, they only have to declare the -1 to hit stratagem when they are targeted, so, if you pull this off they essentially get to keep their 2CP for another unit that isn’t being targeted by the combo units.

They are an option to try, but they aren’t the option to build a counter around. With this trick, you’d really need to be hoping the other 1615 points of your army can do enough damage to his other 1694 points to ensure you won’t just crumble next turn. As it stands, I’m not sure they’d be able to.

For the same price as that full combo (inc Lieutenant) you can get nearly 6 squads of Scout Bikers for the Dark Angels, which, would arguably do way more damage through sheer weight of fire, and being able to spread the threat so the Eldar can’t fully stack all their -1 penalties.

Another alternative that hasn’t been mentioned yet is the Callidus assassin. Now, it’s not the greatest HOWEVER any stratagem used on the first turn potentially get increased in cost by 1. Eldar are stratagem heavy early on, most of the time. This could really help to delay them a turn, or potentially heavily reduce their ability to use their tricks. (this won’t work against a double battalion + air wing force though, due to the beta changes)
2 Culexus and 1 Callidus will set you back 250 points, but is useful against a wide variety of armies.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





The other stunt you could pull is a superheavy auxiliary. Drop a knight gallant right in the middle. and march him straight ahead.

With T8 W24 A4 3+ 5++, it's going to be hard to kill. With S8 A4 and some truly vicious close combat options, including "titanic feet" which translates to just stomping on infantry, you're going to do masses of damage to a non-CC-focused army. You can fall back, shoot, and charge each and every turn. You can potentially put out 12 S8 AP-2 attacks a turn once you hit CC.

At 389 points, it's not cheap, but your opponent just can't ignore it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/04 08:50:22


 
   
Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




Azuza001 wrote:
Take 1 with dual flamers, 1 with flamer and heavy bolters, and 1 with a heavy bolter for wounds
Why this configuration especially? I understand that I keep one cheap for sacrifice 'cause he's probably gonna destroy it T1 anyway, but apart from that I'm better off with flamers since they do more than twice the wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Annirak wrote:
The other stunt you could pull is a superheavy auxiliary. Drop a knight gallant right in the middle. and march him straight ahead.

With T8 W24 A4 3+ 5++, it's going to be hard to kill. With S8 A4 and some truly vicious close combat options, including "titanic feet" which translates to just stomping on infantry, you're going to do masses of damage to a non-CC-focused army. You can fall back, shoot, and charge each and every turn. You can potentially put out 12 S8 AP-2 attacks a turn once you hit CC.

At 389 points, it's not cheap, but your opponent just can't ignore it.
i'll keep that in mind as a last resort option ^^ But seriously I don't think I'm ever gonna go knight-size, just because of my lazyness to build and paint such a thing. Also I wanna keep my friends

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/04 08:53:50


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




A knight is an option, i agree, but, the Gallant is going to struggle to get to the Reapers and can get countered hard by a single Warp Charge 7 psychic power (which can be cast on a 6).

I would almost always go for a Warden if taking one, as it provides a decent amount of firepower. It is 466 points though.

Vs that Eldar list the Knight will probably last for 2-3 turns (fire dragons won't be able to get to it turn 1). It has to be able to do a lot of damage in that time.
   
Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




Kdash wrote:
So, for 312 points, you get 3 landspeeders with heavy flamers that will move, on average 23” on the first turn. (Your loadout comes to 281 points) Add on the 104 points for the Whirlwind (without Hunter Killer) and you’re looking at 385 and 1 CP (potentially 2 if you need to re-roll the advance distance). And, then a 3rd if you then want to fire the weapons on the Speeders.

It is a really big investment to essentially kill 1 Dark Reaper hiding in cover at the back of the table. If you then want to add in a Lieutenant, you now kill 2 units, but, at a cost of 385 + a basic Lieutenant.

It could work, but, it is a 1 trick pony that is easily countered by Eldar. Essentially, all they need to do is one of the following –
Deploy the key unit after the speeders (if possible)
Deploy in the webway
Use a Wave Serpent
Backline the key unit (means it’s a 50/50 on whether they get into range)
If they go first – kill 1 speeder (then again, based on the expected dmg output from the Whirlwind, they could just be ignored)
If they go first, move a blocking unit up a few inches to ensure the speeders can’t get into range
Also, they only have to declare the -1 to hit stratagem when they are targeted, so, if you pull this off they essentially get to keep their 2CP for another unit that isn’t being targeted by the combo units.

They are an option to try, but they aren’t the option to build a counter around. With this trick, you’d really need to be hoping the other 1615 points of your army can do enough damage to his other 1694 points to ensure you won’t just crumble next turn. As it stands, I’m not sure they’d be able to.

For the same price as that full combo (inc Lieutenant) you can get nearly 6 squads of Scout Bikers for the Dark Angels, which, would arguably do way more damage through sheer weight of fire, and being able to spread the threat so the Eldar can’t fully stack all their -1 penalties.

Another alternative that hasn’t been mentioned yet is the Callidus assassin. Now, it’s not the greatest HOWEVER any stratagem used on the first turn potentially get increased in cost by 1. Eldar are stratagem heavy early on, most of the time. This could really help to delay them a turn, or potentially heavily reduce their ability to use their tricks. (this won’t work against a double battalion + air wing force though, due to the beta changes)
2 Culexus and 1 Callidus will set you back 250 points, but is useful against a wide variety of armies.
Yup 2 Culexus and 1 Callidus is what I thought of in my very first post, I really think it could feth with his strategies. I agree that the Speeder tactic sounds too fragile, I have the feeling that the best "counter" to the Dark Reaper is not to present units that really hurt me if I lose them. And 3 speeders is IMO too expensive and too good a target for him.

PS: we play 1500pts at the moment


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kdash wrote:
fire dragons won't be able to get to it turn 1
Cause of the beta rules?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/04 08:59:39


 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





CypherF wrote:
i'll keep that in mind as a last resort option ^^ But seriously I don't think I'm ever gonna go knight-size, just because of my lazyness to build and paint such a thing. Also I wanna keep my friends


Build and paint can be pain but knights as a general are rather underpowered so if you don't keep friends it's because they get tired of beating up you all the time due to crappy armies you field.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/04 09:03:02


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




tneva82 wrote:
CypherF wrote:
i'll keep that in mind as a last resort option ^^ But seriously I don't think I'm ever gonna go knight-size, just because of my lazyness to build and paint such a thing. Also I wanna keep my friends


Build and paint can be pain but knights as a general are rather underpowered so if you don't keep friends it's because they get tired of beating up you all the time due to crappy armies you field.
I just feel it's like fielding a Primarch or a very OP character, it sets the bar to a whole new level and I wouldn't do it without their permission first. My opponent won't field 2 DR units either for example. We don't use GW models. We try to stay "reasonable" and have fun. But yeah my army isn't really good at the moment but with all the advice you all gave me so far I'm gonna try to do better next time
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




CypherF wrote:
Kdash wrote:
So, for 312 points, you get 3 landspeeders with heavy flamers that will move, on average 23” on the first turn. (Your loadout comes to 281 points) Add on the 104 points for the Whirlwind (without Hunter Killer) and you’re looking at 385 and 1 CP (potentially 2 if you need to re-roll the advance distance). And, then a 3rd if you then want to fire the weapons on the Speeders.

It is a really big investment to essentially kill 1 Dark Reaper hiding in cover at the back of the table. If you then want to add in a Lieutenant, you now kill 2 units, but, at a cost of 385 + a basic Lieutenant.

It could work, but, it is a 1 trick pony that is easily countered by Eldar. Essentially, all they need to do is one of the following –
Deploy the key unit after the speeders (if possible)
Deploy in the webway
Use a Wave Serpent
Backline the key unit (means it’s a 50/50 on whether they get into range)
If they go first – kill 1 speeder (then again, based on the expected dmg output from the Whirlwind, they could just be ignored)
If they go first, move a blocking unit up a few inches to ensure the speeders can’t get into range
Also, they only have to declare the -1 to hit stratagem when they are targeted, so, if you pull this off they essentially get to keep their 2CP for another unit that isn’t being targeted by the combo units.

They are an option to try, but they aren’t the option to build a counter around. With this trick, you’d really need to be hoping the other 1615 points of your army can do enough damage to his other 1694 points to ensure you won’t just crumble next turn. As it stands, I’m not sure they’d be able to.

For the same price as that full combo (inc Lieutenant) you can get nearly 6 squads of Scout Bikers for the Dark Angels, which, would arguably do way more damage through sheer weight of fire, and being able to spread the threat so the Eldar can’t fully stack all their -1 penalties.

Another alternative that hasn’t been mentioned yet is the Callidus assassin. Now, it’s not the greatest HOWEVER any stratagem used on the first turn potentially get increased in cost by 1. Eldar are stratagem heavy early on, most of the time. This could really help to delay them a turn, or potentially heavily reduce their ability to use their tricks. (this won’t work against a double battalion + air wing force though, due to the beta changes)
2 Culexus and 1 Callidus will set you back 250 points, but is useful against a wide variety of armies.
Yup 2 Culexus and 1 Callidus is what I thought of in my very first post, I really think it could feth with his strategies. I agree that the Speeder tactic sounds too fragile, I have the feeling that the best "counter" to the Dark Reaper is not to present units that really hurt me if I lose them. And 3 speeders is IMO too expensive and too good a target for him.

PS: we play 1500pts at the moment


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kdash wrote:
fire dragons won't be able to get to it turn 1
Cause of the beta rules?


Yeah because of the beta rules affecting the deep strike. However, I just realised it is possible for him to still get them into range depending on who goes first and deployment.

If a Knight gets frontlined during deployment, the Fire Dragons can hop out of a Wave Serpent, auto advance 6” for a total of 16” of movement, followed by a 12” range weapon. They won’t be in melta range, but, they can still shoot.

You can counter this though with your own deployment and a screen of scouts.

Generally though, they won’t be in range 1st turn, meaning you should get 2 good rounds of shooting with the Knight.
At 1500 points, it’s a big chunk of your list though (but, 7 Reapers, a Farseer, a unit of Fire Dragons and a Wave Serpent is also a big part of his points. Over 600 points)

If you take a Knight, you need to build around it at that point level.

   
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Regular Dakkanaut





CypherF wrote:
i'll keep that in mind as a last resort option ^^ But seriously I don't think I'm ever gonna go knight-size, just because of my lazyness to build and paint such a thing. Also I wanna keep my friends


Convince him to up it to 2000 and run a single warhound with an inferno cannon and a turbolaser. With a 24" move, you'll be stomping infantry in no time!

No, but seriously, it sounds like you need to close the gap to CC or flamer and run multiple threats so that the modifiers can't stack. Board control with scouts, fast attack troops, some kind of AA for those grav tanks, and something to counter the Farseers/warlocks.

Would a unit of vanguard vets with lightning claws, a chaplain, a lieutenant, and a librarian, all with jump packs do the trick?
   
Made in fi
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CypherF wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
CypherF wrote:
i'll keep that in mind as a last resort option ^^ But seriously I don't think I'm ever gonna go knight-size, just because of my lazyness to build and paint such a thing. Also I wanna keep my friends


Build and paint can be pain but knights as a general are rather underpowered so if you don't keep friends it's because they get tired of beating up you all the time due to crappy armies you field.
I just feel it's like fielding a Primarch or a very OP character, it sets the bar to a whole new level and I wouldn't do it without their permission first. My opponent won't field 2 DR units either for example. We don't use GW models. We try to stay "reasonable" and have fun. But yeah my army isn't really good at the moment but with all the advice you all gave me so far I'm gonna try to do better next time


Thing is knights are generally overpriced piece of junk so why would opponents be pissed off? Unless they get pissed off at you taking suboptimal. At which point you prolly need to fine tune to max your army everywhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Annirak wrote:
CypherF wrote:
i'll keep that in mind as a last resort option ^^ But seriously I don't think I'm ever gonna go knight-size, just because of my lazyness to build and paint such a thing. Also I wanna keep my friends


Convince him to up it to 2000 and run a single warhound with an inferno cannon and a turbolaser. With a 24" move, you'll be stomping infantry in no time!

No, but seriously, it sounds like you need to close the gap to CC or flamer and run multiple threats so that the modifiers can't stack. Board control with scouts, fast attack troops, some kind of AA for those grav tanks, and something to counter the Farseers/warlocks.

Would a unit of vanguard vets with lightning claws, a chaplain, a lieutenant, and a librarian, all with jump packs do the trick?


You trying to get him lose by recommending warhound? His opponents might for real get pissed off at him wasting their time at game where the eldars would roflstomp enemy without even having to fire a gun.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/04 09:30:08


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




Annirak wrote:
CypherF wrote:
i'll keep that in mind as a last resort option ^^ But seriously I don't think I'm ever gonna go knight-size, just because of my lazyness to build and paint such a thing. Also I wanna keep my friends


Convince him to up it to 2000 and run a single warhound with an inferno cannon and a turbolaser. With a 24" move, you'll be stomping infantry in no time!

No, but seriously, it sounds like you need to close the gap to CC or flamer and run multiple threats so that the modifiers can't stack. Board control with scouts, fast attack troops, some kind of AA for those grav tanks, and something to counter the Farseers/warlocks.

Would a unit of vanguard vets with lightning claws, a chaplain, a lieutenant, and a librarian, all with jump packs do the trick?
No such things for DA Our vets don't get jump packs.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Guessing at his list a little from what you’ve said, but I think at 1500 points I’d do the following against it.

Battalion
2 Dark Talons
Master
Lieutenant
3 Scout squads (likely all with pistols and knives)
Predator with autocannon and heavy bolters

Outrider
Talonmaster
2 scout bike squads
Dark shroud
1 unit of 3 Black Knights


Essentially, the Scouts are there to get into combat with the Rangers. They’ll prob be locked up in combat for a couple of turns, but the Rangers need to be dealt with this way. You could alternatively just run bolters and put the squads in cover on objectives, so the Rangers have to deploy elsewhere and means he has to deal with those units (esp in Maelstrom games), but, you’ll not get much out of them beyond the odd wound.

Dark Talons are distractions that have to be killed. They need to bait the Fire Dragons and/or Reapers out of their Serpents. If the Dragons are in deep strike, make sure you’re either going 2nd, or end your turn 1 outside of 12” of his deployment zone if you are going first. Also, remember you have a bomb on the Talon. If you get the chance, fly over the Rangers and remove them with mortal wounds. You’re not going to be in rapid fire range, but you also don’t want to be losing both in the same turn. Once both units are on the table, the bikers and the remaining Dark Talon can easily sweep up the 2 main threat units.

I kept the pred in there, because you had the model, and it is semi useful for targeting things like Dire Avengers and Guardians. Also adds a couple of pot shots at the Wave Serpent(s)/Fire Prisms.

You could drop the Pred and swap 1 Dark Talon for 2 Jetfighters. At this point, I’d drop the Master and Lieutenant as well, merge the Outrider into the battalion and pickup something like a deep striking Librarian/one on a bike. It’s a turn 2 drop if you deep strike, but it’ll prob give you more than a Master would.
This would give you options for targeting the Fire Prisms first turn as well, if you wanted to.

Once the units are out of the transports, the bike blob would be able to deal with most of it through high amounts of firepower, alongside any remaining flyers.

If you don’t get 1st turn, you’ll need to make sure the bike blob is completely out of LoS during deployment.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Incidentally, everywhere I've said "stormhawk interceptor," replace with "Nephilim jet fighter"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:

Annirak wrote:

Convince him to up it to 2000 and run a single warhound with an inferno cannon and a turbolaser. With a 24" move, you'll be stomping infantry in no time!

No, but seriously, it sounds like you need to close the gap to CC or flamer and run multiple threats so that the modifiers can't stack. Board control with scouts, fast attack troops, some kind of AA for those grav tanks, and something to counter the Farseers/warlocks.

Would a unit of vanguard vets with lightning claws, a chaplain, a lieutenant, and a librarian, all with jump packs do the trick?


You trying to get him lose by recommending warhound? His opponents might for real get pissed off at him wasting their time at game where the eldars would roflstomp enemy without even having to fire a gun.


I thought it was obvious that was a joke


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CypherF wrote:
Annirak wrote:
Would a unit of vanguard vets with lightning claws, a chaplain, a lieutenant, and a librarian, all with jump packs do the trick?
No such things for DA Our vets don't get jump packs.


In that case, go full ravenwing and load up on bikes. Bike Chaplain, Bike Libby, Bike vets, load up on flamers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/04 10:52:34


 
   
Made in fr
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




Kdash wrote:
Dark shroud
I'm wondering if it's necessary since the reapers dont get a malus to hit and the tanks can always target the heavies that don't benefit from the darkshroud.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




CypherF wrote:
Kdash wrote:
Dark shroud
I'm wondering if it's necessary since the reapers dont get a malus to hit and the tanks can always target the heavies that don't benefit from the darkshroud.


Only the reapers ignore it though, the rest of the army won't.
   
 
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