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 Manchu wrote:
Did you forget to post a quotation of RJ saying "the kids at the end are reenacting the previous scene"? Because what you posted does not support that claim. You and I aren't arguing about whether RJ wanted to tell a story about Luke accepting his place in legend. We agree that is the case. Our disagreement is whether that has any bearing on anything else that happens in the film.

Again, it makes no sense that the kids would have heard about what happened on Crait so soon after it happened. It's just not supported by anything shown in the film.

I'm pretty sure the kid telling the story says the words First Order. Which indicates one of two things is true:

1. He knows about Crait. Also, his language either lacks the words or even concepts for "order" and "first", or has incorporated Basic buzzwords and names The way Japanese pop stars incorporate English phrases.

2. His language has a phrase that sounds suspiciously like First Order, but means something totally different.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
10% casualties in the opening credits before it even begins.

If there are any action scenes showing Rebels fighting Imperials in Episode IX then it will have to be set some years after the events of TLJ. That will also allow for Leia to have died and been mourned off-screen. Very convenient.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'm pretty sure the kid telling the story says the words First Order. Which indicates one of two things is true:

Or more than those two things. It could be that the kid is telling about how Luke Skywalker, who everyone has heard of (including orphaned scavengers on Jakku) will someday return and fight the First Order. Because he doesn't know that Luke did appear on Crait, where he died. Or where he projected his avatar, with such great exertion that he died on Ahch-To.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Rey falling to the Dark Side and Joining Kylo Ren, or swapping sides with him entirely with Kylo Ren being redeemed by his mother Leia would have subverted my expectations in a much better way.

This is such an excellent point. Rian Johnson is praised to high heaven for subverting Star Wars but actually the film ends with a big battle between good guys who are Rebels and bad guys who are Imperials. Our main good character has resisted the Dark Side. Our main bad character is committed to villainy. Subversion?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Finn in TLJ felt to me like he was stereotyped and relegated to being a funny black man. Complete waste of potential.

That's correct.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Finn is a great character. One of my favorite SW moments comes from TFA when he finds the bravery to stand up to Kylo Ren to protect his one friend in the world, Rey. It sucks that TLJ undermined him and relegated him to comedy relief with no character development.

Finn was underutilized in TFA.

They should have done something really interesting with his past as a brainwashed, indoctrinated child soldier Stormtrooper. They could have introduced elements of PTSD, damaged emotional development, a tendency to cruelty and desensitisation to violence and suffering of others. And its only though his interactions with the Rebels that he redeems himself, recovers emotionally from his warped upbringing in the First Order and. Basically make him a rehabilitated and reformed Waffen-SS Nazi.

To achieve that, I would have made him a spy who "defects" to the Resistance as a ruse to implant a spy in their midst, but slowly goes native and has a change of heart over the course of TFA until finally culminating in him rejecting the First Order outright in TLJ in his showdown with Captain Phasma.

Instead, his time in the First Order seems to have left no lasting impression on his mental health and personality. If the movie didn't keep reminding us that he used to be in the First Order, he'd be indistinguishable from any other Rebel soldier.

Finn in TLJ felt to me like he was stereotyped and relegated to being a funny black man. Complete waste of potential.

Now, whilst some might just dismiss this as Avatar set in A Galaxy Far Far Away, which in turn is just Dances With Wolves in space, I think this was the way to go with Finn. Now that would have been interesting. What wasted potential.

 Manchu wrote:
Did you forget to post a quotation of RJ saying "the kids at the end are reenacting the previous scene"? Because what you posted does not support that claim. You and I aren't arguing about whether RJ wanted to tell a story about Luke accepting his place in legend. We agree that is the case. Our disagreement is whether that has any bearing on anything else that happens in the film.

Again, it makes no sense that the kids would have heard about what happened on Crait so soon after it happened. It's just not supported by anything shown in the film.

Elsewhere in the article it describes the scene as re-enacting Crait. We'll just have to disagree since:

A) The play scene set up is clearly Crait; again, it has a backstop to represent the cliff face, and a big, blocky cannon as the battering ram cannon, and Luke stands between them. This is clearly Crait, as there is no other scene shown in a Star Wars movie where "Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master" is in a situation anything like that. But since they don't say "Crait" or have time to finish the scene they're playing out, I guess the clear symbolism isn't enough for you.

and

B) Your other claim was that Luke's action didn't "move the needle", and Rian Johnson has now explicitly said that you are incorrect.

The set up looked a lot like the final battle on Crait. I'm sticking to my guns on this one. That kid somehow knows what happened on Crait.


...


Or First Order commanders deploy their troops exactly as uneducated ten year olds would deploy their toys.

 frightnight wrote:
Rian Johnson has now explicitly said that you are incorrect.

Rian Johnson also says he made a great movie and the criticisms are not valid.

 frightnight wrote:
I guess the clear symbolism isn't enough for you.

The symbolism is not clear to me because the movie does not lay out how it is possible that those kids would know about something that happened so soon after it happened. But again, that's my fault since Rian Johnson explicitly said I am incorrect and we know he is right and TLJ is above criticism because he said so.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Or First Order commanders deploy their troops exactly as uneducated ten year olds would deploy their toys.

Now you're getting it.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If people are rating ROTS 1/10 and lower than TPM and ROTC, they’re clearly talking utter bollocks.

Can't rank TLJ higher than PM because PM has literally the best lightsabre battle in all of star wars.

Only from the most shallow, superficial measurement.

In terms of cinematography, emotional stakes and character impact, ESB and ROTJ slaughter it.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
The set up looked a lot like the final battle on Crait. I'm sticking to my guns on this one. That kid somehow knows what happened on Crait.


...


Or First Order commanders deploy their troops exactly as uneducated ten year olds would deploy their toys.

I wouldn't put the latter past the First Order...

 Manchu wrote:

 frightnight wrote:
Rian Johnson has now explicitly said that you are incorrect.

Rian Johnson also says he made a great movie and the criticisms are not valid.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Or First Order commanders deploy their troops exactly as uneducated ten year olds would deploy their toys.

Now you're getting it.

Lol, okay, So the guy who made the movie tells you the point of the scene, but he's wrong about that because you didn't like his movie. Gotcha.

We have two competing explanations for the final scene:

It is Crait, because a theme of the film is Luke accepting his place as an inspiration and legend, even though he failed with Ben Solo, and the scene is demonstrating that by showing the kids being excited and inspired by retelling his final showdown.

It is something else, because obviously when making a movie you should refer to something else entirely when making a point about Luke becoming legend, instead of the scene that just happened and is the climax of his story arc.

I'm comfortable with saying you're both wrong and grasping at straws to keep from admitting it. But you do you.

Hey I didn't make the movie, I just sat through it in the equivalent of a cinematic mugging.

It's not my responsibility to make sure that what happens on screen makes narrative sense. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't.

But again, Rian Johnson says it's a great film so I am wrong. I guess.

Doesn't matter what Rian Johnson claims was the intention of the scene. Its still a gak movie. If audiences are misinterpreting specific scenes, that probably has more to do with it being a poorly written and directed movie that failed to convey the intent of the Director.

 Manchu wrote:
Finn is a great character. One of my favorite SW moments comes from TFA when he finds the bravery to stand up to Kylo Ren to protect his one friend in the world, Rey. It sucks that TLJ undermined him and relegated him to comedy relief with no character development.

Finn is a wasted character. You mean to tell me the Resistance has a defected Stormtrooper that's been indoctrinated from birth to be an elite soldier... and that he's a gibbering nerd?

Listen, I'm just saying- put John Boyega in the gym and give him a protein diet. Muscle him up, and in the next movie send him after the enemy with a big blaster machine gun. You cannot go wrong with this.

 frightnight wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 frightnight wrote:
Rian Johnson has now explicitly said that you are incorrect.

Rian Johnson also says he made a great movie and the criticisms are not valid.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Or First Order commanders deploy their troops exactly as uneducated ten year olds would deploy their toys.

Now you're getting it.

Lol, okay, So the guy who made the movie tells you the point of the scene...

When did reading up on interviews/following twitter accounts/etc become part of the moviegoing experience?

Besides, I'd rather sit down with the entirety of the New Jedi Order than read a single sentence about Rian Johnson's opinions on anything relating to Star Wars.

Okay. It may not have been clear to either of you, but it was to me and a bunch of other folks on other boards what it meant.

You can not like the movie. You can think it's terrible. That doesn't make it so.

The scene makes perfect narrative sense, as I laid out in my previous post: Luke decides he has value, returns for final stand, becomes legend to inspire new generation of rebels. Your disagreement on the scene, besides being a stretch for thematic, narrative, and metaphorical reasons, is over bolt-counting on a thing that's never actually been defined: how long hyperspace travel takes, and how quickly information could be spread.

You can have it break your suspension of belief, lord knows I've had some weird things stick in my cinematic craw over the years. When I do, I say, "Yeah it's weird, but X just didn't work for me". Like how I like lasagna and pizza, but can't stand spaghetti.

Just understand that your objection to the scene does not break any established rules of the franchise, only your own.

The reason I did not interpret the scene as them talking about Crait is because there was no time for them to have heard about what happened on Crait. The movie simply did not establish that the kids could be talking about those events. You say this makes perfect sense?

This isn't bolt counting. According to you, this is supposed to be the main statement of the theme of the movie. But it's so botched that it doesn't come across clearly to at least some audience members.

You're literally the only person with that critique that I've encountered, and I've talked about TLJ on a lot of boards.

I guess you can't assume that some amount of time has passed, perhaps months, and the story of that battle has spread like wildfire across the galaxy, which, by the way, is part of the thematic point: Luke was a spark that lit a fire of resistance. That it spread so far and so wide is proof of how important he is/was.

It is a love letter, and I'm honestly sorry you didn't see it that way.

I actually think the scene with the kids was added later after a bad screen-tests of ending with Luke disappearing.

I have no facts to back this idea up, but that is what it felt like to me as the kid ending was executed so poorly.

OK let's assume months have passed. The twenty odd people on the Millennium Falcon who could not get anyone to come help them on Crait have someone managed to spread the message that ... what? Luke Skywalker forestalled the complete destruction of the Resistance? What is inspiring about this again?

I think your previous argument was, the notion that Luke returned is the big news. But he died. So that sort of cancels out the returned part. But then you also said that they could just lie about or omit that part, right? Which cuts out the hope part, because it's a false hope. The FO is exactly as powerful as it is whether or not Luke did anything on Crait.

Maybe the point of the scene is that only a naive child could understand the preceding sequence as the prologue to the rebirth and rise of the Resistance.


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 Easy E wrote:
that is what it felt like to me as the kid ending was executed so poorly

I agree. The scene with the kids looked and felt like a Target commercial. Leaving the impact of Luke's actions an open-ended question would suit the alleged themes of this subversion-obsessed movie much better. But ending on a down beat is risky, unless you are really confident in your work (i.e., Infinity War).

 frightnight wrote:
Okay. It may not have been clear to either of you, but it was to me and a bunch of other folks on other boards what it meant.

Oh no, it was clear to me. But by the time that scene was on the movie and I held each other in such contempt that there was no saving it.

I can even recall the precise moment I realised I was watching steaming garbage being poured into the audience's every sensory organ - it was soon after the Leia/space scene, and the TIE fighter action had cut away (probably to Luke/Rey). It cut back to the Raddus to a series of glum looking Rebels, talking mutedly about their hopeless situation. Suddenly I realised... hang on, this was a battle scene last time we were here, what's happening? Had to check with the guy next to me.... yep, they're apparently mid battle and just sitting around moping.

Fuel, something something something. Tracking, something something something. What happened to you Star Wars, you used to be cool.

And then Canto Bight happened. Yeah, you're never coming back from that.

I knew what the closing scene meant. I just don't believe that's how it would actually go.

Totally unearned inspiration if the truth is widely known. Totally catastrophic consequences if they feed the lie the kids believe.

"I'm here to kick FO butt with jedi master Luke Skywalker. Where can I go to shake his hand?"

It really doesn't matter if they said that Luke died or not. My point earlier was that as of the conclusion of the battle, maybe 3 people knew, and they might not tell.

Regardless, in a galaxy that was too afraid to stand up to the First Order, a galactic bully, one person did, and they won. Luke's last stand was apparently engaging and exciting enough that it spread across the galaxy in short order. Luke could be still out there, helping those in need, so the tales say, or he passed on from the battle, in which case our own history is rife with inspirational last stands that really didn't accomplish much in the grand scale of things (Alamo, Thermopylae). It's very plausible, IMO.

And I'm out for the day! I look forward to the next 5 pages you all post while I'm gone!

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Finn is a great character. One of my favorite SW moments comes from TFA when he finds the bravery to stand up to Kylo Ren to protect his one friend in the world, Rey. It sucks that TLJ undermined him and relegated him to comedy relief with no character development.

Finn is a wasted character. You mean to tell me the Resistance has a defected Stormtrooper that's been indoctrinated from birth to be an elite soldier... and that he's a gibbering nerd?

Listen, I'm just saying- put John Boyega in the gym and give him a protein diet. Muscle him up, and in the next movie send him after the enemy with a big blaster machine gun. You cannot go wrong with this.

Boyega really doesn't need the whole Chris Hemsworth treatment. In Pacific Rim 2, he had the charisma to make a scene wherein he makes and eats a chocolate sundae compelling. What he needs is Jeff Goldblum as a partner.

It's pretty telling that an actor with so much screen presence was made so bland and passive. He was Sam Jacksoned by Star Wars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
About the kids--they clearly learned about Crait through the power of Christmas The Force filling their pure hearts with the gift of hope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Riquende wrote:


Besides, I'd rather sit down with the entirety of the New Jedi Order than read a single sentence about Rian Johnson's opinions on anything relating to Star Wars.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! That is a mighty strong statement there. Have you really thought about this? The whole NJO? Against a single sentence? In terms of tempting fate, this is beyond "Goblin King, Goblin King, take this baby away from me."


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 Manchu wrote:
The reason I did not interpret the scene as them talking about Crait is because there was no time for them to have heard about what happened on Crait. The movie simply did not establish that the kids could be talking about those events. You say this makes perfect sense?

This isn't bolt counting. According to you, this is supposed to be the main statement of the theme of the movie. But it's so botched that it doesn't come across clearly to at least some audience members.

In the sequelverse, all concept of time and space is senseless. Literally senseless. As in, the timeline makes no sense at any point. The setting makes no sense. The closer you look into any question, the farther you are from understanding. If the entire Republic can fall and the FO can bust out a huge fleet and scour the galaxy of Resistance in about a day, there's no reason to believe word could not have reached those kids before their next growth spurts.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
3. The liberal politics forced into the films turns my stomach. I hate Rose Tico and that awful purple haired woman.

Again with this nonsense. The movies (and their flaws) are exactly the same if those characters are white men. Complaining about "liberal politics" just because there are characters who aren't white men is why people comment on how criticism is motivated by sexism/racism/etc.

If Rose was a white man there would be complaining about him kissing Finn.

Isn't the NJO the Yuuzhan Vong series? I'd say it's best parts are better than TLJ's best and it's worst parts are still not as bad. Seriously, the best things about TLJ (outside of the great cinematography which I can't complain about whatsoever) are Kylo and Rey's interactions in general, particularly the throne fight scene. Luke is passable, I dislike it more and more as I think about it, but I have to admit that his arc DOES make sense even if it is disappointing.

How to fix TLJ with just redubbing and tactful editing

 Kilkrazy wrote:
What's wrong with a progressive female character?

Nothing. That's why the Wonder Woman movie did so well. This is where the 'angry sexist pig' rhetoric fails, as many of the same people who hate TLJ loved Wonder Woman.

It doesn't matter what kind of character it is, if they're POORLY WRITTEN, they will not be well received. Case in point: Boba Fett. Built up heavily, then a poorly-written ending makes him look like a chump. Very much like Supreme Leader Snoke.


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 Earth127 wrote:
Poe is admonished for jumping the gun and ignoring Leia's order to pull back. Not Holdo's orders, Leia's.

Leia is then either unwilling to order the bombers not to follow Poe - which means she must accept some of the blame for the ensuing casualties - or the bomber crews told her nope, if we don't go the Dreadnaught is going to wipe everyone out - at which point THEY must accept some of the blame for the ensuing casualties.

And if all else failed, she could have just left Poe on his own and jumped out if she thought he was THAT wrong, sparing the casualties. It's not like his ship doesn't have a hyperdrive. That she doesn't again places some of the blame on her.

If the fleet COULDN'T jump out yet, then Poe is right and the Dreadnaught NEEDS to die now before it gets into range. Which makes her subsequent reaction to Poe's actions irrational.


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 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's hard to understand why the Department of Defense accepted TLJ for the West Point advanced staff training program.

As Formosa just said; it's a great example of what not to do as a commander.


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topaxygouroun i wrote:
I'm going to make a leap of faith and assume you were not in the military. A good commander NEVER explains his reasoning. He gives orders, he builds routines so that his officers know what to do in every given situation, but the question WHY he decides as he does is for him and him alone. Otherwise discipline goes to the dustbin and every single soldier thinks they can be a commander. If there is a need to abandon ship, a routine with actions on how to abandon the ship is already rolled out and rehearsed a hundrend times before.

Except that's not what she did. She did not give orders to abandon ship. She gave NO orders, just 'run that-a-way until we run out of fuel and DIE'. I may not have been in the military, but I know enough people how have to know that's not going to fly. They'll accept that they might die for a reason, but dying because the CO doesn't seem to have a plan? Nope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

A good commander NEVER explains his reasoning. He gives orders, he builds routines so that his officers know what to do in every given situation, but the question WHY he decides as he does is for him and him alone.


That sounds like a great idea to have the kind of battle that makes the list of top military failures. A commander who insists on unquestioning authority and never involves their subordinates in planning is just begging to have a plan with flaws that a second opinion might have caught.

Poe is a captain? (or a lieutenant? Can't remember). Regardless. He is not a general. He is not a Colonel. He's not a Major. In business terms, he's a line manager for his soldiers, or even worse than that, a very badass engineer. He is not a member of the board of directors. He has no reason whatsoever to know or question the decisions of his command.

Of course, one must remember the Resistance is not a government-run military but a private mercenary group. Leia has no official position in the Republic. The rules are wee bit different for mercenaries, even idealistic ones. The commander of a Carrier Air Wing is not an insignificant peon you can brush off even in a professional military; in a mercenary organization he NEEDS to be consulted when using any sort of air assets.


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 Earth127 wrote:


Good god , how did Thrawn not go crazy?

He would have had Hux executed on the spot for being an idiot. And then captured the rebels in their slow, unarmed transports when he saw right through Holdo's deception.

'Hmmm. They have jumped to the outer edge of this system, and are allowing us to chase them at sublight speed across it. But they are not heading toward the planet directly. Why come here? Their actions since we recalled the fighters demonstrates that Ackbar and Leia must be incapacitated. Probably Vice Admiral Holdo in charge. Which means....'

"Have half the fighters and assault shuttles go establish a blockade around that inhabitable planet. All ships maintain a continuous scan for cloaked ships and relay intercept courses to the blockade. Unarmed ships should be captured, not destroyed wherever possible. In the meantime, send three star destroyers through hyperspace to the other side of this system so we can catch them in a trap. Everyone else, break up into your normal three-ship divisions and spread out in case she tries something insane like a hyperspace ram."

 Kilkrazy wrote:


For one thing, we've had 6 films about the Skywalker family and it's time to let someone else have a go at being the main interest.

For a second, all the actors from the original films are too old (and dead in Carrie Fisher's case) to be convincing action heroes for a young audience. Otherwise you turn SW into Red in Spaaace, with a bunch of retirees subverting convention in a comic way by being over the hill but still badaaaas. Does anyone want to see an 80-year-old Harrison Ford as Han Solo with a Zimmer frame?

From both these points, the flame has to pass to a new generation.

I would have liked that. An older cast (of characters we know and love) managing situations with experience, wisdom and tricks would be cool to watch; I really liked old Obi Wan sneaking about the Death Star using the force subtly to avoid confrontation and get his job done without breaking a sweat. Young Obi Wan and Anakin battling through squads of droids is fine but we've seen plenty of that. The main good guys could have been Luke, Leia, Han and Rey with the droids and Chewie supporting. Rey and, to a much lesser extent, Luke could have had the action bits.

I don't think that would have made worse films

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Again, Vader is a master swordsman, veteran jedi hunter, and the most powerful force user in known history. Kylo Ren is a Vader fanboy who his own troops openly treat as a joke, with the added bonus of a wound that would have been instantly fatal to anyone but a major character. The two are not even close to comparable.

Yep. And Vader was still fighting a trained individual, albeit one with very little training.

Ren had many years of training. He had a flesh wound, or so it appeared to be (and that I blame the writers on, that bowcaster's potency was about as consistent as Ren's personality). Plot armor aside, Rey was throwing around an unfamiliar weapon against a trained adversary. I won't even say it's shocking she won, I'll buy that- I'd just think it would make more sense if she were at least wounded or scarred from the battle.

Not just an unfamiliar weapon, but a very awkward weapon to boot if you are trained in using normal energy weapons.

Here's a good simulation. Take a meter-long stick, hold it like a lightsaber, and swing it around a bit. Lots of weight forward, pulling you into the swing. Try a two-meter long staff like Rey uses in her early fight. Very different balance. And the more trained you are fighting with such weapons, the more automatic your compensation for that balance is.

Now take one of the big 18" maglight flashlights into a dark room. Turn it on and hold it like a lightsaber. Swing it around a bit. It's a VASTLY different feel... and if the light illuminates any part of your body you just 'cut it off'.

A lightsaber is no weapon for those untrained in it's techniques. And it's even worse if you're trained in OTHER weapon techniques.

 frightnight wrote:
Regardless, in a galaxy that was too afraid to stand up to the First Order, a galactic bully, one person did, and they won.

This didn't happen in TLJ. The Resistance did not win anything. A handful of survivors fled. What you're talking about actually happened in TFA, although it was a band of plucky guerrilla fighters rather than one person who stood up to the FO and won.

 Peregrine wrote:
Did you miss the part where all of the heroes of the story are soldiers and fighting against the space-Nazis is presented as an unquestioned good thing? The only time anyone ever disputes the idea of fighting against the space-Nazis is in the form of "jumping in an x-wing and shooting stuff is not the full extent of military strategy".

Except that the ONLY time anyone fights the space-Nazis at all in the film is under Poe's direct command. Everyone else runs screaming from the conflict lest they suffer any casualties.


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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I don't feel like JJ does "get" Star Wars. Or scale. Or storytelling. Or directing. Or much of anything. He has to be one of the worst directors making big budget films today, and I have absolutely no hope for Episode 9. It would take a Herculean effort to convince me that JJ has the writing chops to put this shattered mess of a trilogy back together.

About the only way I'd watch the next main sequence movie is if it's marketed as "TLJ was a mistake, here's the real Episode VIII..."

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
It's pretty telling that an actor with so much screen presence was made so bland and passive.

But only in TLJ. In TFA, he was very winning and as I mentioned his arc from traumatized FO defector to a guy willing to be brave for the sake of friendship was compelling.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
About the kids--they clearly learned about Crait through the power of Christmas The Force filling their pure hearts with the gift of hope.

I have been patiently waiting for frightknight to tell me the kids had a Force vision about Luke on Crait.

As for time and space in these Disney movies ... I have no sense of how powerful the FO is. They have a planet-sized super weapon that gets blown up. They have a giant dreadnought that gets blown up. They have an even bigger command ship that gets blown up. And yet they aren't already the preeminent power in the galaxy? Is it perhaps because everything they have gets blown up?

Then again, the Resistance is also very confusing. They had a whole wing of bombers that did not participate in the bombing run on Starkiller Base. It's like the guy who wrote TLJ didn't like TFA and felt free to disregard it.

But as far as I can tell, space and time are very important in TLJ. The whole A plot of TLJ revolves around the relative space of the FO and Resistance ships as time passes. Time and space are taken very seriously in this respect. Also, it's very important that almost no time has passed since the destruction of Starkiller Base and the beginning of TLJ. I mean, no one responds to the Resistance call for help despite the Resistance winning a major battle against the FO. Probably because not enough time has passed for word to get out.

So it seems like the conclusion is that time and space matter when Rian Johnson needs them to but they don't matter when he needs to tack on a sappy scene to prevent his movie ending on a commercially risky emotional downbeat.