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 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
However SW continues to act like a galaxy is a really tiny place with only a few people that matter.

Because creating a story with all new characters and no ties to established ones is a risky prospect that could loose a lot of money. It's sad, but that is the reality of the business.

There are also enough of us out there that want to see our heroes on new adventures that we didn't know about before.

-

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

I also wish they’d do something a bit more radical like making the main character an alien.

mesa thinking that nono ganna happenz for some merry bunchin' reasons, least not in live action

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

I also wish they’d do something a bit more radical like making the main character an alien.

mesa thinking that nono ganna happenz for some merry bunchin' reasons, least not in live action

There's also the fact that Star wars seems to want more human representation on screen so audiences can apparently empathize with the characters. At least that's what I assume is why we have hardly any alien character at all since TFA dropped. And the biggest alien area we saw was.. Canto Blight, full of villains and slavers.

 Lance845 wrote:

I want you to picture the scene.

Rey is arguing with Kylo.

"I had a vision too. I know who your parents were... You are a Kenobi!"

Rey "... Who?"


Rey has no idea who the hell Kenobi is/was. That is a scene that would mean nothing to the people in the film and only something to the viewers. It would be full on terrible.

Rey knew who han, luke & leia are and their role in the rebellion, she knew about the falcon and the kessel run.

so the reply would have been:

Rey "oh the guy who won the clone wars and trained luke, that you're named after for some reason. We're cousins, good thing we didn't kiss" wink wink knudge knudge

in the kenobi movie, we'll see ben hooking up with kira. to wrap it all up in a pretty bow.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
People who didn't like TLJ, are you going to not watch whatever comes next in the series?

there are many ways to watch it though, sure you can pay and see it in a theater,

you can watch it for free at home.

you can wait for it to show up on Netflix and watch it on your friends account he's letting you share.

you can wait for the wife to buy the dvd because she was upset you took the kids to the theater without her to go see it

or in the case of solo, I wasn't going to go see it opening weekend, but the wife planned to see it with the kids so I tagged along.

Lots of ways to see the movies, not all of them end up with Disney getting a cut.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

I want you to picture the scene.

Rey is arguing with Kylo.

"I had a vision too. I know who your parents were... You are a Kenobi!"

Rey "... Who?"


Rey has no idea who the hell Kenobi is/was. That is a scene that would mean nothing to the people in the film and only something to the viewers. It would be full on terrible.

Rey knew who han, luke & leia are and their role in the rebellion, she knew about the falcon and the kessel run.

so the reply would have been:

Rey "oh the guy who won the clone wars and trained luke, that you're named after for some reason. We're cousins, good thing we didn't kiss" wink wink knudge knudge

in the kenobi movie, we'll see ben hooking up with kira. to wrap it all up in a pretty bow.

Oh, and the guy she heard say "Rey, these are your first steps" in her first force vision when she touched Luke/Anakin's lightsaber.

It's really not out of the question for Rey to know exactly who Obi-wan Kenobi was.

-

sirlynchmob wrote:
"oh the guy who won the clone wars and trained luke, that you're named after for some reason. We're cousins, good thing we didn't kiss" wink wink knudge knudge

That would be the Clone Wars that happened decades ago and which Palpatine would have had complete control over the official records for? To the point where Luke didn't recognise Kenobi's name, or even hear any mention of Anakin Skywalker taking part? The only reason Leia knew about Obi-Wan is because her father fought in the Clone Wars and knew Kenobi personally.

Why would Rey have any knowledge of those events? She knew of Luke and Han because the Empire falling was within her lifetime, and they were the heroes of that conflict and the government following the war had no reason to hide their involvement. The same cannot be said about Kenobi in the Clone Wars.

TO ME, Rey being an unknown Kenobi is more OMG-Darth-Vader-built-C3PO! pointless connection-making that the franchise doesn't need.

Rey's a Skywalker? Fine, the first six movies were about Skywalkers too. Rey's no one in particular? Also fine because we've had six movies about Skywalkers.

I'm not sure what Rey being a Kenobi or relative of any other big-name Jedi achieves other than 'OMG connections!' and creating more questions that they won't have time to answer.

I agree, Rey being related to OT characters seems pointless.

What needs to happen is some damn exposition. It's the job of the sequel to draw a line between itself and the preceding installment. This isn't something the audience should be expected to read in novels and comic books. TFA really dropped the ball on that one, as far as the wider setting is concerned. But the clear implications was that Ben and Rey would have their stories backfilled in Episode VIII as they got to know one another. Kylo Ren got something here, although it was pretty thin and unconvincing. But Rey just got shrugged off. If TLJ had done its job properly we wouldn't be retreading these same dumb ideas about whose daughter or grandaughter or great grand niece Rey is.

Rey being a nobody is unacceptable "to me" because of all the obvious clues/nods/similarities that JJ put into TFA.
If he hadn't set up the 'bait' for RJ to follow up with the 'switch', than Rey being a 100% new character would be fine.
But it didn't happen that way. Rey was obviously being set up as having some hidden heritage in TFA that RJ retroactively disregarded. JJ having control over IX means he can "fix" this issue.

So the way I see it, Rey needs to be either:
A) Luke's daughter to finish out the "Skywalker" saga.
B) Obi-wan's granddaughter to bring Kylo back to the light as a way of succeeding where Obi-wan had failed with Vader. Yes Luke did this, but far too late for Anakin. Rey has a chance to bring Ben back without either dying.
C) both A and B

Also, Anakin needs to make a Force ghost appearance, possible to explain the above, or be the final push for Ben Solo to turn back to the light.
Again, this would be a very satisfying way to "close out" the Skywalker sage for good so that SW can move on.

'Solo' focusing on the criminal underworld of SW is a good start to expand the universe while still having ties to the familiar

-

Well Galef I am glad we can at least agree that TLJ fethed up such that JJ needs to do some repair.

If it must be done, let her be Anakin reincarnated. Either literally that, which would be dumb but not as dumb as her being Obi-Wan's granddaughter, or something more Star Wars-y, like she is another "vergence in the Force" like Anakin was.

But since the spin off movies seem to be building to an Obi-Wan stand alone, I would not be surprised if there is a Obi-Wan/Rey connection that is explained in that film, eventually.

Anakin should have been the Force ghost in TLJ. How could Luke not have had long talks with his father and ended up that bitter? Who else was in a better position to recount the arrogance and hypocrisy of the Jedi than Anakin Skywalker? Yoda was one of its principal perpetrators. Given what Luke has to say about the Jedi Order in TLJ, I'd figure he'd look at Yoda like a Nuremberg defendant instead of a wise master.

That would have been a great opportunity to get poor hayden christensen back in.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
"oh the guy who won the clone wars and trained luke, that you're named after for some reason. We're cousins, good thing we didn't kiss" wink wink knudge knudge

That would be the Clone Wars that happened decades ago and which Palpatine would have had complete control over the official records for? To the point where Luke didn't recognise Kenobi's name, or even hear any mention of Anakin Skywalker taking part? The only reason Leia knew about Obi-Wan is because her father fought in the Clone Wars and knew Kenobi personally.

Why would Rey have any knowledge of those events? She knew of Luke and Han because the Empire falling was within her lifetime, and they were the heroes of that conflict and the government following the war had no reason to hide their involvement. The same cannot be said about Kenobi in the Clone Wars.

There's lots of long lived races around, Chewbacca was pals with yoda after all. A wide sweeping galactic conquest that involved every race, ya people would remember the events.

I think it was more lukes uncle controlling lukes schooling and Kenobi trying to "hide" by just calling himself old ben. He should have just put on glasses. Obi wan was the poster child for the clone wars, so they would remember him and Anakin skywalker before anyone else.

 Earth127 wrote:
Rey isn't responsible for Ben being evil. But she chose to go to the Raddus setting herself the task of turning Kylo ren back into Ben solo and she failed to do so.

The word "fail" is causing trouble here. You're using it to mean, the result she wanted did not occur for reasons beyond her control. Kylo Ren did not refuse to turn because of anything Rey did or failed to do. By contrast, when I say fail I mean something completely within the control of the person attempting whatever the action is. We are introduced to Finn as a failure of a storm trooper, for example. Poe fails (I guess?) at the beginning of TLJ and is womanberated (kind of like mansplained) at for the rest of the picture. When Finn and Rose get to Canto Bight, Finn cannot even just remark on the splendor of the resort without Rose shooting him down with a lecture about evil rich people.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
That would have been a great opportunity to get poor hayden christensen back in.

And that's exactly why it didn't happen and they had to use the ageless, generally well-received puppet.

I feel like these guys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxgKBUK4wQ

 Manchu wrote:
I agree, Rey being related to OT characters seems pointless.

What needs to happen is some damn exposition. It's the job of the sequel to draw a line between itself and the preceding installment. This isn't something the audience should be expected to read in novels and comic books. TFA really dropped the ball on that one, as far as the wider setting is concerned. But the clear implications was that Ben and Rey would have their stories backfilled in Episode VIII as they got to know one another. Kylo Ren got something here, although it was pretty thin and unconvincing. But Rey just got shrugged off. If TLJ had done its job properly we wouldn't be retreading these same dumb ideas about whose daughter or grandaughter or great grand niece Rey is.

That's only important if you care who is Rey's grandfather. Lots of people don't.

What ?

The original movies don't really have much in the way of exposition either. A lot of the "why's" of Star Wars come initially from the novelizations and eventually the EU. It's something I've always really enjoyed about the series and part of the reason that my least favorite bits of TLJ are the Canto soapboxing segments.

 Manchu wrote:
What ?

I don't care whose grandaughter Rey is.

ANH told us a lot about what was going on, without burdening the action. We're introduced to an evil Empire in power and a Rebel Alliance fighting against its tyranny. We know right away that there is an Imperial Senate that will push back on Vader arresting Leia and there might even be sympathy in the Senate for the Rebellion. General Tagge tells us that the Rebellion will continue to gain support in the Senate until Grand Moff Tarkin cuts him off with news that the Emperor has dissolved the Senate and plans to rule through regional governors rather than Old Republic style bureaucracy. We know previously from Obi-Wan's lines that the Old Republic = good times, with Jedi's guarding peace and justice. Tie that in to Vader's connection to the Force ("that ancient religion") and we have everything we need to know about the wider galaxy.

Who are the Resistance? Who are the FO? TFA doesn't bother to explain. It's in some comic book or something. Or it's just more of the same stuff, so who cares I guess. Who is Max von Sydow's character? Who is Snoke? Who is Rey? And on and on and on ...

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I don't care whose grandaughter Rey is.

Neither do I, what's your point?

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
What ?

I don't care whose grandaughter Rey is.

Nor would I, or whose daughter she is, if it were not for all the clues and similarities laid out in TFA. Even Simon Pegg mentioned that she was intended to have a special heritage when he and JJ were spit-balling story ideas.
TFA hints WAY too hard that she is supposed to be someone of particular significance. TLJ throws that away.

That is why I care who she really is.

-

That's a point where we shall have to agree to disagree.

To get back to an earlier question, I've recalculated the average user rating incorporating the Metacritic figures. As I expected, although the score there is lower than IMBD and Rotten Tomatoes, the much smaller sample size makes it relatively unimportant in the final result.

The new average score for TLJ is 67.73% out of 100.

 Galef wrote:
That is why I care who she really is.

But caring who she is doesn't have to be a matter of her being related to some established character. We have a precedent in Anakin of the Force siring a child. (And I don't care about the [now defunct?] EU backfill on this.)

 Kilkrazy wrote:
People who didn't like TLJ, are you going to not watch whatever comes next in the series?

That's honestly becoming a big question for me. Since the special editions in '97 I've seen every cinematic Star Wars on day of release (including the Clone Wars movie). I didn't like the prequels but powered through each of them (never saw them since).

TFA, day of release - bored a bit, could see they were trying to recreate the franchise for a new generation but didn't hold much for me. Never watched it again.
R1, day of release - slow start but enjoyed it by the end. Own it and have watched it 3 times I think since.
TLJ, day of release - utterly baffled that was deemed acceptable to release, worse than any of the prequels for me with a couple of minor saving graces. Fails on every level as a genre film. Haven't bought it, no plans to, would rather not subject myself.
Solo, day of release - meh... it's okay. I can't say I loved it and it has issues. I'm not itching to see it again but I do plan to own a copy and I'm sure I'll watch it at some point, especially if it's launching a bit of a SWCU thing.

So Episode 9... huh. I'll watch it, day of release as usual, though my expectations are so low right now that I'm almost dreading it.

Past that, I don't know. Given TLJ, if the Rian Johnson trilogy goes ahead then I might just skip it entirely. But it depends how the movies pan out, what their focus is etc. I don't believe SW is beyond saving, I just think that the prequel and sequel trilogies are junk (or will be) and a new plan is needed.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
People who didn't like TLJ, are you going to not watch whatever comes next in the series?

Not in theaters. The only reason I saw TLJ is because someone else bought the ticket and I did not want to be rude. I went, enjoyed the visual effects, and took the fellow out for a hamburger and fries afterward like a good sport- but he even expressed disappointment and tried to apologize, to which I told him it wasn't necessary. I got to spend time with an old friend, that was the best part of the movie.

The others, I may rent as they come out. But I'm not going to pay theater prices to see anything until I know the writing is moving in a better direction. It's simply not worth spending around $15.00-$20.00 to see. Very few things are, though...

You really ought to see Solo. It doesn't deserve to be overshadowed by disappointment in TLJ.

 Manchu wrote:
You really ought to see Solo. It doesn't deserve to be overshadowed by disappointment in TLJ.

I'll consider it, I don't think I will though. I would prefer to rent it and have the movie for a Sunday afternoon with some pizza.

TBH it will work great on your living room TV. While I was watching it in the theater, I thought - you know a SW show like this would actually be really entertaining. But it was so much fun to go to a cinema and see a fun, exciting SW film with likeable characters. I really enjoyed TFA in that way and when I sat down to watch TLJ, I really believed that's what it would be like. But it turned out to be a nightmare.

Once you see Han Solo on the little screen you will regret not having watched it on the big screen.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Once you see Han Solo on the little screen you will regret not having watched it on the big screen.

I like having food and a movie. And the theaters near me that offer food- you're paying absurd amounts for it. I can set up my comfortable recliner and watch it on my television. And pause it when I need to pee.

If Rey turns out to be Luke's daughter, who he abandoned on a desert world. And he never recognized her. Then the moral of the entire Star Wars franchise is; Jedi are bad Fathers.

And lets no even start on how much Padme sucks.