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That's fair, they're essentially unchanged from the 80s. Have you tried their Alpha Strike version, Aegisgrimm? It is fast and furious, takes them off of the hexmap and streamlines the system thoroughly.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

that is what Alpha Strike is for!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
That's fair, they're essentially unchanged from the 80s. Have you tried their Alpha Strike version, Aegisgrimm? It is fast and furious, takes them off of the hexmap and streamlines the system thoroughly.

Conveniently enough, both starters come with rules for Classic Battletech (more 80s than an airbrushed van) and Alpha Strike.

I don't think that's true. The Alpha Strike cards in the A Game of Armored Combat box are pilot cards (oddly enough). Alpha Strike Commander's Edition is listed as a separate, upcoming release for this year.

AegisGrimm wrote:I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

I don't understand. So you mean you don't want to play any new game since you will have to learn the rules? If you want more streamlined rules, as was said that is what Alpha Strike is for.

 judgedoug wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

that is what Alpha Strike is for!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
That's fair, they're essentially unchanged from the 80s. Have you tried their Alpha Strike version, Aegisgrimm? It is fast and furious, takes them off of the hexmap and streamlines the system thoroughly.

Conveniently enough, both starters come with rules for Classic Battletech (more 80s than an airbrushed van) and Alpha Strike.

I don't think that's true. The Alpha Strike cards in the A Game of Armored Combat box are pilot cards (oddly enough). Alpha Strike Commander's Edition is listed as a separate, upcoming release for this year.

You know, you're right! I guess I was thrown off by those Alpha Strike Cards. Oops!

Davor wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

I don't understand. So you mean you don't want to play any new game since you will have to learn the rules? If you want more streamlined rules, as was said that is what Alpha Strike is for.

And I never disagreed with that, nor did I say anything like you are accusing me of.

Geez, its not like I am arguing with anyone or being a stick in the mud, I was simply commenting about the posts saying the mech designs look dated, but with my added counterpoint that I personally feel it's the core rules of Battletech that feel the most dated, rather than the mech designs/models. And I knew full well that such a statement would make BT fans salty with me (and it has, obviously), as it's pretty well evidenced that there are two basic kinds of minds about BT rules: those who think they are pretty clunky and take a long time to play, and those who vehemently defend the game against the former group.

The Alpha Strike rules do not feel dated as they are designed in a more modern feel.. The same with other modern rulesets like Mech Attack that distill BT rules down into something that feels less like products of the 80's.

Ah, well, you committed the cardinal sin of criticising the rules, old chap. Never do that.

I'm a fan of Battletech and all things Battletech related. I love the boardgame, I love the miniatures, I loved the cartoon, I've loved all of the main computer games (that I'm old enough to have played) from the Mechwarrior series to the Mechcommander series (the new Battletech video game is also quite nifty, though somewhat limited in scope).

I recently reinstalled and played through Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries, Mechcommander 2 and am now playing the hell out of Mechwarrior Online. I play almost no sessions of the boardgame apart from infrequent battles with my brother.

Here's what I think. Opinions! On the internet! That don't totally resemble outright complaints!

The early Battletech/Mechwarrior games, like Mechwarrior 2/Mercs, suffer from the restrictions of the time. As a direct boardgame comparison, they're action-packed but with a layer of thoughtfulness surrounding the affair: Heat management is key, as in the boardgame, but lack of melee means long range weapons take over. Mechcommander 2 has kind of the same "issues", such as they are, but further simplifies everything further; no real heat management in-game, no melee... It effectively encourages you to turn everything into a "boat": An LRM boat, a laser boat, etc.

Still fun games!

Fast forward to the new Battletech video game and Mechwarrior Online, and the games start to break away further, adding complexity back in but significantly changing the mechanics behind things. For having to somehow capture the atmosphere of the boardgame, as well as staying true to the earlier video games, they're pretty innovative in the way that they manage to more readily instil a sense of character in the mechs, as an example. Retconning and changing the availability of certain weapons to different factions, introducing "hardpoints", stability ratings, upping the importance of design quirks and making them central, etc. All of this has made the two current computer game versions of Battletech much more characterful and fun.

I suppose you could suggest a rewrite of the rules that involves some level of simplification, while adding in new factors like the above suggestions (Alpha Strike is one way of doing it, but that feels too much like it went down the path of Mechcommander 2, while I prefer the current battle mechanics of the new Battletech game), but if you do then you'd better have an escape plan because those grognards are going to come for you. They're going to chase you down like the absolute dog you are. They will hold you down, immobile, and bring their faces as close as possible so you can FEEL the painfully quiet whisper that escapes their cracked, dry mouths....

"There's nothing wrong with this ruleset. We've played it since it came out, 1884, I think, and we'll play it even when we're heads in jars... Be away with you.... Leave us beeeeeee...."

And with that, they will crumble to dust and blow away in the wind as you unfold your paper maps, unpack your 1980s-designed miniatures, and shout "Alright then, how about a ga-... lads? Lads? Anyone? Anyone for a game of.. Battletech...?"

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Geez, its not like I am arguing with anyone or being a stick in the mud, I was simply commenting about the posts saying the mech designs look dated, but with my added counterpoint that I personally feel it's the core rules of Battletech that feel the most dated, rather than the mech designs/models. And I knew full well that such a statement would make BT fans salty with me (and it has, obviously), as it's pretty well evidenced that there are two basic kinds of minds about BT rules: those who think they are pretty clunky and take a long time to play, and those who vehemently defend the game against the former group.

Battletech rules are dated as they are a product of their time. But that is also part of their charm and it's why games like Advanced Squad Leader have remained largely unchanged as well - there's a continual core audience for that style of rules. While they are complex, they have a certain feel to them, and it really is enjoyable to play a lance on lance encounter with actual Battletech rules. Of course, I prefer larger and quicker games so my go-to is Alpha Strike nowadays.

Interestingly the new Adeptus Titanicus appears to be borrowing MORE from Battletech than the original Adeptus Titanicus did!

 ekwatts wrote:
I suppose you could suggest a rewrite of the rules that involves some level of simplification, while adding in new factors like the above suggestions (Alpha Strike is one way of doing it, but that feels too much like it went down the path of Mechcommander 2, while I prefer the current battle mechanics of the new Battletech game), but if you do then you'd better have an escape plan because those grognards are going to come for you. They're going to chase you down like the absolute dog you are. They will hold you down, immobile, and bring their faces as close as possible so you can FEEL the painfully quiet whisper that escapes their cracked, dry mouths....

"There's nothing wrong with this ruleset. We've played it since it came out, 1884, I think, and we'll play it even when we're heads in jars... Be away with you.... Leave us beeeeeee...."

And with that, they will crumble to dust and blow away in the wind as you unfold your paper maps, unpack your 1980s-designed miniatures, and shout "Alright then, how about a ga-... lads? Lads? Anyone? Anyone for a game of.. Battletech...?"

Oh my god this had me rolling.

Over the top and dumb, but funny as hell!

 judgedoug wrote:
Battletech rules are dated as they are a product of their time. But that is also part of their charm and it's why games like Advanced Squad Leader have remained largely unchanged as well - there's a continual core audience for that style of rules. While they are complex, they have a certain feel to them, and it really is enjoyable to play a lance on lance encounter with actual Battletech rules. Of course, I prefer larger and quicker games so my go-to is Alpha Strike nowadays.

Interestingly the new Adeptus Titanicus appears to be borrowing MORE from Battletech than the original Adeptus Titanicus did!

Yeah, I definitely find charm in Battletech's rules and I think there is something to be said of a rule set that needed only moderate tweaks over 30 years and still functions well.



Battletech isn't a perfect system, and besides unit/weapons bloat its major crime is being slow, but those limitations can be navigated by a player group willing to house rule or with products like Alphastrike (or the old Battleforce games).

Every year I go to Gencon, the most fun I have is time at the Battletech Grinder table. I plan to sit down for a couple hours and somewhere along the way 6 hours have gone by. It is slow, but always a blast. I tihnk part of the allure is that it changes so little over time; it's gaming comfort food really. It never has been or is going to be my primary game, but I can come back to it after a long period away and not get mad about rule changes or having to relearn the fundamentals.

AegisGrimm wrote:

Davor wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:I actually find the mechs from Battletech perfectly fine, especially the more modern designs/redesigns.

Its the rules that I find to be horribly dated. Its all great if a player is already a fan of the BT mechanics, but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch, as well as also teach any opponents those rules, that I can find games that can encompass mech-on-mech combat with more streamlined rules.

The Battletech rules are (for me) in the same family as Full Thrust, Star Grunt, etc. Rules that 'feel' very 80's.

I don't understand. So you mean you don't want to play any new game since you will have to learn the rules? If you want more streamlined rules, as was said that is what Alpha Strike is for.

And I never disagreed with that, nor did I say anything like you are accusing me of.

Geez, its not like I am arguing with anyone or being a stick in the mud, I was simply commenting about the posts saying the mech designs look dated, but with my added counterpoint that I personally feel it's the core rules of Battletech that feel the most dated, rather than the mech designs/models. And I knew full well that such a statement would make BT fans salty with me (and it has, obviously), as it's pretty well evidenced that there are two basic kinds of minds about BT rules: those who think they are pretty clunky and take a long time to play, and those who vehemently defend the game against the former group.

The Alpha Strike rules do not feel dated as they are designed in a more modern feel.. The same with other modern rulesets like Mech Attack that distill BT rules down into something that feels less like products of the 80's.

First off, sorry if you think I have accused you of something. I haven't What did I accuse you of? I said I don't understand. I asked if you don't play new games because you said. "but I personally find that as a player viewing things from a situation where I would have to learn the rules from scratch" to me it seemed you would have to learn new rules so don't want to play it. So how is that accusing you of anything? I asked a question so I can understand your point of view. There was no attack. Again I am sorry if you thought I was attacking you, I wasn't, I was trying to see your point of view.


As for the rules being dated, yes they are. That is a good thing and a bad thing. Good thing is, it stays the same and proves you don't need to change the rules all the time. Bad thing is now that games take too long and being an old fart now, don't have the time some times for those long games. Playing other games now where you control more units but playing less time is what I like now. I never played Alpha Strike because nobody is playing it that I know of. So here is hoping this can be a launch for new players and get back to a game I so use to love.

As has been said above, there are reasons why Battletech being the same as it's ever been is actually a positive for a lot of people, even people who also like other games with more modern rules. Sometimes, you're just in the mood for that kind of games, and they are the same they've ever been. To play Battletech you don't really need much more than the datatsheets, hex maps, standees/minis, dice and the reference cards from the box. Having the rules booklet from the box is nice, but it mostly sits there unused.

The setting and (IMHO) the advanced rules and tech proliferation makes the game overly complex and in a lot of ways (to me) unfun, but the starter box Battletech experience still holds, IMHO, even if it shows its age on the sleeve. Not all the time, not exclusively, but I would rather not play any game exclusively, so...

"Endurance BattleTech" was one of the best things I've ever come up with precisely because the rules are so complex (and, in some instances, complicated).

Endless hours (and weekends) grinding away at the same game, using every 'Mech under the sun. Amazing fun.

Battletech provides a very specific gameplay experience, which, if you're in the mood for it, is some of the best gameplay experience you can ever have. You just need to be in the mood for it.

For everything else, there's Alpha Strike!

Regardless, the new box sets are a deal, and are going up for preorder VERY SOON and should be released right after GENCON!

Triple9 wrote:
Every year I go to Gencon, the most fun I have is time at the Battletech Grinder table. I plan to sit down for a couple hours and somewhere along the way 6 hours have gone by. It is slow, but always a blast. I tihnk part of the allure is that it changes so little over time; it's gaming comfort food really. It never has been or is going to be my primary game, but I can come back to it after a long period away and not get mad about rule changes or having to relearn the fundamentals.

That's kinda funny, as one of my worst experiences of Gen Con was playing in the Trial of Bloodright (basically grinder, 24 players on one map with only Clan mechs). bag player being loud, telling other players they were stupid and idiots and telling them how to play, and being a general hat. He apparently had a history of it and the judges just put up with him until I called him and the judges on it.

 Tamwulf wrote:

Triple9 wrote:
Every year I go to Gencon, the most fun I have is time at the Battletech Grinder table. I plan to sit down for a couple hours and somewhere along the way 6 hours have gone by. It is slow, but always a blast. I tihnk part of the allure is that it changes so little over time; it's gaming comfort food really. It never has been or is going to be my primary game, but I can come back to it after a long period away and not get mad about rule changes or having to relearn the fundamentals.

That's kinda funny, as one of my worst experiences of Gen Con was playing in the Trial of Bloodright (basically grinder, 24 players on one map with only Clan mechs). bag player being loud, telling other players they were stupid and idiots and telling them how to play, and being a general hat. He apparently had a history of it and the judges just put up with him until I called him and the judges on it.

Yeah, that really sucks. I luckily haven't had the belligerent uber-gamer experience; worst I've had is the forgot the daily(weekly?) shower gamer. It will be interesting to see what the tables are like this year; assuming there will be a few more first time folks introduced from the video game.

One thing I don't like about BattleTech now and it seems it's only me, is I don't like that I can't use my own creations. I loved how I could modify any design to my liking and or play style.

Sadly this is the people who play not the company who enforces this rule. So to me what makes BattleTech is gone from the game. To me half of BattleTech is designing stuff. Then being able to play that. Take that away BattleTech is only half the fun.

So when does this actually come out and can you get it in the uK?

From https://bg.battletech.com/news/first-look-miniatures-from-upcoming-boxed-sets/

The BattleTech Beginner Box and BattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat boxed sets are set for their debut at GenCon, with a wide release to your favorite gaming store to follow soon.

GenCon is August 2nd through the 5th.

Davor wrote:
One thing I don't like about BattleTech now and it seems it's only me, is I don't like that I can't use my own creations. I loved how I could modify any design to my liking and or play style.

Sadly this is the people who play not the company who enforces this rule. So to me what makes BattleTech is gone from the game. To me half of BattleTech is designing stuff. Then being able to play that. Take that away BattleTech is only half the fun.

While I can appreciate the idea behind it, I've never seen it handled well. You end up with abused and meta/min-max stuff just like you do any other game. That's actually what drove me away from a lot of Battletech games and killed my interest. But, to me, the interest in any wargame is actually always the opposite. I think that stems from my love of historical wargaming.

 Elbows wrote:

Davor wrote:
One thing I don't like about BattleTech now and it seems it's only me, is I don't like that I can't use my own creations. I loved how I could modify any design to my liking and or play style.

Sadly this is the people who play not the company who enforces this rule. So to me what makes BattleTech is gone from the game. To me half of BattleTech is designing stuff. Then being able to play that. Take that away BattleTech is only half the fun.

While I can appreciate the idea behind it, I've never seen it handled well. You end up with abused and meta/min-max stuff just like you do any other game. That's actually what drove me away from a lot of Battletech games and killed my interest. But, to me, the interest in any wargame is actually always the opposite. I think that stems from my love of historical wargaming.

Customs are tough but can be managed. My old BTech group would occasionally have custom matches, and besides being BV balanced (which can be abused) we would also incorporate other limits like no Targeting Computers and Pulse Laser combos (when that was still a thing), no TC-Warheads, etc.

If someone brought a truly abhorrent design it would usually get focus-fired to death and then the rest of us would continue on. Setting the custom games in a Solaris VII-style arena helped too.

Really, I like customs in a campaign setting. Letting a player slowly customize their `Mech over a number of sessions utilizing the salvage they earned is the ultimate Battletech experience from my point of view. Also, requiring the game mechanics for customization be adhered to helps with keeping the super-cheese designs out.

"Oh, your tech failed her roll to install that Clan ER PPC? What a shame!"

The BattleTech Beginner Box and BattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat boxed sets are set for their debut at GenCon, with a wide release to your favorite gaming store to follow soon.

Unfortunately, the first thing I do is cringe at that statement, because Leviathans started that same way.....and then it was two years to retail and still failed. Hopefully the weight of Battletech being what it is keeps the inertia going, because even though I don't play any of the official rules, it'd be a shame to see it finally peter out after struggling for years. It's earned a renaissance.

As for my personal views of Battletech...imagine having to learn the rules from scratch and then teaching them to every person whom I might play against-some of which only know BT from it's reputation of being a heavy ruleset that plays reeaally slow if you want to see more than a Lance of mechs on a side. With a core ruleset like Battletech, that's pretty daunting.

And while it plays much faster, Alpha Strike is a bit too boiled-down for me. Something official that falls in the middle would be nice to see -similar to Mech Attack, where you can field more than a lance per side and still have location-based damage and heat management, and still have a pretty speedy game.

So I'll preface this by saying I've never played Battletech, never even looked at the rulebook, and have no familiarity with the game as a miniatures game other than playing a few games of clix based game way back when (which was totally unrelated gameplay-wise, at least as far as I can tell). I have played the older MechWarrior and Mech Commander games and really enjoyed them however.

After doing a bit of reading, old school Battletech definitely does not seem for me (with as long as the game seems to take I'd probably get to play it once a year), but I'm intrigued by Alpha Strike. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the depth and play time of it? Is there a quick start rules or anything I can take a look at?

Also, I've noticed the upcoming Mechs in the starter sets look pretty nice, but I haven't seen any thing else advertised. Is there a way to get things like the Atlas, Timberwolf, etc....not in the starter? I remember Iron Wind made a range of metals forever ago, but it seems like there aren't a lot of minis out there for the game.

Thanks for any feedback!

 Sabotage! wrote:
Also, I've noticed the upcoming Mechs in the starter sets look pretty nice, but I haven't seen any thing else advertised. Is there a way to get things like the Atlas, Timberwolf, etc....not in the starter? I remember Iron Wind made a range of metals forever ago, but it seems like there aren't a lot of minis out there for the game.

All of the metal miniatures are made by Iron Wind Metals or by Ral Partha Europe.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

Davor wrote:
One thing I don't like about BattleTech now and it seems it's only me, is I don't like that I can't use my own creations. I loved how I could modify any design to my liking and or play style.

Sadly this is the people who play not the company who enforces this rule. So to me what makes BattleTech is gone from the game. To me half of BattleTech is designing stuff. Then being able to play that. Take that away BattleTech is only half the fun.

While I can appreciate the idea behind it, I've never seen it handled well. You end up with abused and meta/min-max stuff just like you do any other game. That's actually what drove me away from a lot of Battletech games and killed my interest. But, to me, the interest in any wargame is actually always the opposite. I think that stems from my love of historical wargaming.

Customs are tough but can be managed. My old BTech group would occasionally have custom matches, and besides being BV balanced (which can be abused) we would also incorporate other limits like no Targeting Computers and Pulse Laser combos (when that was still a thing), no TC-Warheads, etc.

If someone brought a truly abhorrent design it would usually get focus-fired to death and then the rest of us would continue on. Setting the custom games in a Solaris VII-style arena helped too.

Really, I like customs in a campaign setting. Letting a player slowly customize their `Mech over a number of sessions utilizing the salvage they earned is the ultimate Battletech experience from my point of view. Also, requiring the game mechanics for customization be adhered to helps with keeping the super-cheese designs out.

"Oh, your tech failed her roll to install that Clan ER PPC? What a shame!"

Granted a lotta the newer offical designs are little more then someone's custom design snuck into a TRO. the Warlord is pretty much exactly the type of mech a buddy of mine always made.

@ Sabotage
https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/AlphaStrikeQuick-Start-Rules.pdf?x64300 Alpha Strike's free basic rules.

The Alpha Strike Lance Packs are probably your best bet for plastic Inner Sphere minis, though they are out of print.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=alpha+strike+lance+pack

8-15 for most, although the one with the Atlas is crazy expensive- it's the only place to get that plastic Victor.

The Ironwind Metals remain the best place to get Clan mechs, like the Timberwolf.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Unfortunately, the first thing I do is cringe at that statement, because Leviathans started that same way.....and then it was two years to retail and still failed. Hopefully the weight of Battletech being what it is keeps the inertia going, because even though I don't play any of the official rules, it'd be a shame to see it finally peter out after struggling for years. It's earned a renaissance.

Didn't Leviathans also sink to the bottom of the ocean. Literally?

Thanks Ghaz and Gitzbitah. I'll have to take a look at those rules when I get home from work.

The Lance packs seem a pretty reasonable price to add some additional mechs, a shame about the Atlas being in an expensive pack. It does also seem odd the lance packs are out of print. The mechs in the new starter seem to be updated sculpts, or least cast in a material that holds detail better than the lance packs or previous starter. I wonder if Catalyst is planning on updating other mechs in the new material or resculpting in the style of the new video game.

Some places still have them in stock, but they won't last forever.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Unfortunately, the first thing I do is cringe at that statement, because Leviathans started that same way.....and then it was two years to retail and still failed. Hopefully the weight of Battletech being what it is keeps the inertia going, because even though I don't play any of the official rules, it'd be a shame to see it finally peter out after struggling for years. It's earned a renaissance.

Didn't Leviathans also sink to the bottom of the ocean. Literally?

I can't find anything on a shipment being lost at sea, but it seems the original manufacturer of the models refused to return the CAD files and molds to Catalyst forcing them to re-invest in those elements.

This info is 4 years old, so I am not sure if any new developments occurred.

https://thegaminggang.com/game-news/has-catalyst-game-labs-leviathans-crashed-and-burned/

From Catalyst Game Labs:

Spoiler:

Been a number of months since the last update as we’ve continued to investigate how to proceed with Leviathans. And the conclusions we’ve come to at this stage is there simply isn’t a short-term fix.

It’s a multi-faceted problem:

First, new CADs/renders of every ship are required. The company that previously produced the miniatures also generated the CAD/render work for us and they won’t turn those over. So not only is that a re-investment into the game again, but until very recently it was expertise we’d spent literally years trying to achieve with little to no luck.

Second, new molds are required. Once again, the company that produced the miniatures won’t give over the molds. So we have to invest into new molds. And molds like these can be $4k for a single ship.

Finally, the big box presentation simply didn’t work over-all. Yes, we sold through everything, which is fantastic! But it was a relatively small print run and the cost of the box to produce vs. how much we make leaves little on the table; not to mention how long it took to publish the first time around and it really only covered itself.

Man those are some ugly models. AT is gonna eat this game for breakfast.