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There is only physics, not “real life physics” versus “fictional physics”.

Particulates suspended in the air defract light, including coherent light. Lasers are coherent light. It doesn’t matter how much power is pumped into the laser, aerosols will block lasers. Even the Navy’s new megawatt laser is useless if it rains.

Lasers also require time on target to transfer enough energy to damage a target, due to surface ablation. A laser will literally block itself by turning the surface it strikes into a gas. Pulsing the laser helps, as does sweeping the laser from side to side, but in the end it’s time on target that causes the damage needed. To use a Lasgun or Lascannon, the operator has to hold the beam on target for as long as they can, which is not conducive to staying alive in an active war zone. That’s way lasers in general are poor weapons. The US military are currently using weaponized lasers to blind opponents, and if able, to knock out small unmanned craft like drones and missiles. And, if given enough time on target, to set boats on fire.

SJ

 Blacksails wrote:
The Imperial Navy is busy laughing in high orbit at the ground pounders squabbling.

imperial navy is banned from all vs discussions because imperial navy always wins. Period.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
There is only physics, not “real life physics” versus “fictional physics”.

Particulates suspended in the air defract light, including coherent light. Lasers are coherent light. It doesn’t matter how much power is pumped into the laser, aerosols will block lasers. Even the Navy’s new megawatt laser is useless if it rains.

Lasers also require time on target to transfer enough energy to damage a target, due to surface ablation. A laser will literally block itself by turning the surface it strikes into a gas. Pulsing the laser helps, as does sweeping the laser from side to side, but in the end it’s time on target that causes the damage needed. To use a Lasgun or Lascannon, the operator has to hold the beam on target for as long as they can, which is not conducive to staying alive in an active war zone. That’s way lasers in general are poor weapons. The US military are currently using weaponized lasers to blind opponents, and if able, to knock out small unmanned craft like drones and missiles. And, if given enough time on target, to set boats on fire.

SJ

hi actual physicist here. Smoke won’t block a laser as powerful as a lasgun, but they will greatly reduce range. All lasers have a scattering effect they are neve exactly parallel beams. Air quality amplifies this. How much of an effect this would have? Fiik

They aren't using New Millennium lasers they are using 70-80s pew-pew lasers! In fact whilst they might be called and based on some of the same principles as what we might consider a laser to be, they could be some totally new area of physics that we've yet to discover.

All this talk of smoke has me thinking: Is there any lore that actually has lasers interacting with smoke in 40k?

Although in general terms I think modern Earth would be pretty much guaranteed to lose against everyone except Guard and maybe Tau. The rest have space magics or other things that push them over the edge.

pm713 wrote:
All this talk of smoke has me thinking: Is there any lore that actually has lasers interacting with smoke in 40k?

Tyranid Invasions are said to come with a thick smog as the Tyranids pump spores and microbes into the atmosphere to convert it into a hostile wasteland. So chances are any major Tyranid invasion would have a thick smog element by default.

Well Lasguns work on Tyranids so they seem to work in smog and such.

pm713 wrote:
Well Lasguns work on Tyranids so they seem to work in smog and such.

Eh...Russ tanks appear to work too, despite there being no room in the turret for a crew and no way to actually access the top hatch as the gun breech is in the way (even in cutaway illustrations). Doesnt mean they would in real life though

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
There is only physics, not “real life physics” versus “fictional physics”

The Imperium has a gun that shoots a beam of energy at lightspeed, used to create artificial black holes at arbitrary points in space. The singularities themselves create a vast void-spanning shockwave that pushes anything stuck a moment backwards in time such that it spontaneously explodes due to its own paradoxical nature.

It was used to shoot at space elves who might have avoided a lesser weapon on account of having seen the future and chosen to be where it isn't going to have had been.

A.T. wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
There is only physics, not “real life physics” versus “fictional physics”

The Imperium has a gun that shoots a beam of energy at lightspeed, used to create artificial black holes at arbitrary points in space. The singularities themselves create a vast void-spanning shockwave that pushes anything stuck a moment backwards in time such that it spontaneously explodes due to its own paradoxical nature.

It was used to shoot at space elves who might have avoided a lesser weapon on account of having seen the future and chosen to be where it isn't going to have had been.

And even when they could manufacture weapons like that humanity wasn't even a threat to the space elf empire. Physics isn't just gone in 40k. It ran in terror from the handwavium.

pm713 wrote:
All this talk of smoke has me thinking: Is there any lore that actually has lasers interacting with smoke in 40k?

Although in general terms I think modern Earth would be pretty much guaranteed to lose against everyone except Guard and maybe Tau. The rest have space magics or other things that push them over the edge.

Off the top of my head the only reference to lasweapons being notably affected by things that would impact lasers is an ancient White Dwarf article with some bizarre hostile-environment rules (smoke/debris impeding lasweapons and crystal formations that could be used to scatter lasfire and hit more things).

The problem I have with this whole discussion is that a man-to-man or unit-to-unit comparison puts both the real-world military and a 40k military in an out-of-context situation they're not really prepared for. Real-world armour is optimized to deal with real-world projectile weapons; it's hard to say, energy weapons being mostly theoretical, but I suspect armour designed to defeat plasma weapons or high-energy lasers doesn't work exactly the same way. Similarly the Imperium's entire methodology for fighting wars is built around leveraging immense logistical superiority; we today would regard their tactical decisions as an immense waste of material, but they can loose a million men and regard it as little more than a rounding error, and "wasting material" tends to be an effective use of the tools they've got.

If you teleported a random division of modern soldiers from a nation packing reasonably modern weaponry and a random division-level Guard formation into a neutral alternate dimension and told them to slug it out without any kind of preparation you'd get an asymmetrical fight where the Guard have a massive advantage in weaponry but the real-world troops are vastly more tactically competent and better at using their resources efficiently. I don't know who would win but I don't think arguing about whose rifles/body armour is cooler gets you more than a tiny fraction of an answer. That said the modern troops are definitely going to have a better shot at fighting Guard rather than someone bigger/scarier/faster/sneakier; I'd expect modern-day troops fighting Space Marines to look more like that one Stargate episode where the SGC tries to take on one of Anubis' Kull than anything else.

(Though if you want to argue about the rifles more I will point out that modern-day infantry squads tend to carry a light machine gun firing the same calibre ammunition as the rifles faster/from a larger magazine to provide better suppressive fire (e.g. Russian RPK, American M249) whereas in the 41st Millennium this isn't the case, so we may at least be able to conclude that a lasgun is a better full-auto suppressive fire tool than an M16 or an AK. Though funnily enough according to the sources I've found the actual amount of ammunition carried isn't that different (both ~210-240 rounds), even if according to Dark Heresy a lasgun/ammo is quite a lot lighter.)

 kinratha wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Even with the fluff and lore, it's pretty likely that the IG would be on par with a modern military. They don't wear full composite suits of armour and thus their soft fleshy human bodies would be just as vulnerable to small arms fire, explosions, fragmentation, etc. While they may have "magic" plasteel, etc...it's a bit at odds with how they describe their weaponry (much of which is described in pretty normal human/terran terms). It's very likely that a modern anti-tank weapon would be effective against a Leman Russ etc. There's nothing in the fluff which would make me think a modern MBT sabot round would fail to damage a Chimera or a Russ, etc.

Now, comparing it to fancy Eldar stuff or Space Marines would be much more difficult. We could wreck some Ork stuff without issue, but their sheer numbers would be impossible to defeat.

Some guard regiments do use full body armour, I wonder if the Astra militarum still exist in 40k ?

Anyway, yep I pretty much agree with you, a DU round would likely destroy a guard tank, but in my mind it tigers vs Sherman’s, we have the tigers.

I disagree, it would be more like Tigers vs T-90s. And the Imperium has the t-90s

Nah, guard tanks are tough but crap when it comes to design, simply because the mook that designed it knows nothing about tanks, look at the large flat sides, low ground clearance, high profile, going off the assumption that we could pop them from range on the move, we would have the advantage.

I am also using the Taros campaign as a good signifier of how good they are in that kind of war, also Vervunhive (necropolis) show they can shoot on the move with targeting software, but the range is very limited.

When it comes to targeting equipment, we have them soundly beaten, but they have a lot more tanks.

The designs are only crap because we are basing them off our experience/technology. For all we know, heavy bolsters could smash modern MBTs

Sorry dude were this in the fluff forum I would agree with you, I would only use fluff logic and reasoning, this is in Gen discussion, so its open night on how we see these designs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
There is only physics, not “real life physics” versus “fictional physics”

The Imperium has a gun that shoots a beam of energy at lightspeed, used to create artificial black holes at arbitrary points in space. The singularities themselves create a vast void-spanning shockwave that pushes anything stuck a moment backwards in time such that it spontaneously explodes due to its own paradoxical nature.

It was used to shoot at space elves who might have avoided a lesser weapon on account of having seen the future and chosen to be where it isn't going to have had been.

Is that the one on the Ark Mechanicum starship? sure I read that in a book recently ?

I really do not like these posts.....

To sum up why this question is silly:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
There is only physics, not “real life physics” versus “fictional physics”.

Particulates suspended in the air defract light, including coherent light. Lasers are coherent light. It doesn’t matter how much power is pumped into the laser, aerosols will block lasers. Even the Navy’s new megawatt laser is useless if it rains.

Lasers also require time on target to transfer enough energy to damage a target, due to surface ablation. A laser will literally block itself by turning the surface it strikes into a gas. Pulsing the laser helps, as does sweeping the laser from side to side, but in the end it’s time on target that causes the damage needed. To use a Lasgun or Lascannon, the operator has to hold the beam on target for as long as they can, which is not conducive to staying alive in an active war zone. That’s way lasers in general are poor weapons. The US military are currently using weaponized lasers to blind opponents, and if able, to knock out small unmanned craft like drones and missiles. And, if given enough time on target, to set boats on fire.

SJ

hi actual physicist here. Smoke won’t block a laser as powerful as a lasgun, but they will greatly reduce range. All lasers have a scattering effect they are neve exactly parallel beams. Air quality amplifies this. How much of an effect this would have? Fiik

Heavy carbon smoke is opaque to infrared, and therefore blocks IR range lasers.

Aluminum based aerosols are opaque to microwave range lasers. And are cancerous.

What branch of physics do you study?

SJ

 Formosa wrote:
Is that the one on the Ark Mechanicum starship? sure I read that in a book recently ?

Yes

A.T. wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Is that the one on the Ark Mechanicum starship? sure I read that in a book recently ?

Yes

Easily one of the coolest things ive read in 40k full stop......

The modern military has no defense against space based, planet-killing weaponry.

End of story.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
There is only physics, not “real life physics” versus “fictional physics”.

Particulates suspended in the air defract light, including coherent light. Lasers are coherent light. It doesn’t matter how much power is pumped into the laser, aerosols will block lasers. Even the Navy’s new megawatt laser is useless if it rains.

Lasers also require time on target to transfer enough energy to damage a target, due to surface ablation. A laser will literally block itself by turning the surface it strikes into a gas. Pulsing the laser helps, as does sweeping the laser from side to side, but in the end it’s time on target that causes the damage needed. To use a Lasgun or Lascannon, the operator has to hold the beam on target for as long as they can, which is not conducive to staying alive in an active war zone. That’s way lasers in general are poor weapons. The US military are currently using weaponized lasers to blind opponents, and if able, to knock out small unmanned craft like drones and missiles. And, if given enough time on target, to set boats on fire.

SJ

hi actual physicist here. Smoke won’t block a laser as powerful as a lasgun, but they will greatly reduce range. All lasers have a scattering effect they are neve exactly parallel beams. Air quality amplifies this. How much of an effect this would have? Fiik

Heavy carbon smoke is opaque to infrared, and therefore blocks IR range lasers.

Aluminum based aerosols are opaque to microwave range lasers. And are cancerous.

What branch of physics do you study?

SJ

Opaqueness doesn’t apply the same at these energy levels.....

My specialty is thermodynamics dealing with firearms.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Heavy stubbed = mg34 or equivalent
Missile launcher = at4
Autocannon = 20-25mm auto cannon
Predator autocannon = mk44 bushmaster ii

Now it is time for you to laugh, because the humble lasgun canonically has the same firepower as a .50cal Browning HMG (slightly more, actually). From here, the list would be as per the following:
- S3 (autoguns, lasguns): 10/12mm HMGs and GPMGs. Modern assault rifles and LMGs/MMGs would be most likely S2.
- S4 (boltguns): 20mm grenade round (literally an unpropelled bolt round) or 20-25mm autocannon round. A Bushmaster would be thus a meager S4.
- S5 (pulse rifles, heavy bolters): 30mm grenade round or a 30mm autocannon round. The GAU-8 Avenger on the Warthog would be S5 and AP-2/-3.
- S6 (multilasers): 50mm cannon round or a shoulder-fired rocket launcher like the RPG-7 and the AT4.
- S7 (autocannons): 75-90mm cannon round or an anti-tank missile like the Javelin.
- S8 (krak missiles, battle cannons): 120-150mm cannon round or an air-to-surface missile like the Maverick.
- S9 (lascannons): 200m cannon round or a Tomahawk-caliber cruise missile. Please note that in the 40k universe this level is supposedly for your anti-tank needs.
- S10 (doom rays): Davy Crockett I guess?

For armor values, it wouldn't be a whole lot better. A .50cal round can punch through anything below tank armor with relative ease. On the other hand, the lowly flak armor worn by a Guardsman can stop a lasgun (a .50cal equivalent) with a 33% chance. And that's a lot of protection, maybe the equivalent of a Stryker with an armor kit on. So we would have this:
- Sv 7+: ceramic/kevlar infantry armor. I'm very generous here by the way.
- Sv 6+: light vehicle armor. Old stuff like Shilkas, BTRs, and the M113 would be also here.
- Sv 5+: medium vehicle armor. Most modern APCs and some MRAPs.
- Sv 4+: heavy vehicle armor. IFVs, MRAPs, the works.
- Sv 3+: tank armor.
- Sv 2+: dunno, maybe an Abrams with full DU armor kit?

When it comes to other characteristics, I can't see our stuff faring too well either. A modern human would be S2/T2. An assault rifle S2, AP+1. The standard Abrams would look a lot like a slow Land Speeder (T6, W8, Sv3+). Our equipment would be really crappy but we would have a lot of 'em on every model, like the standard soldier also carrying an S4, AP0, Heavy D3 weapon (an underslung grenade launcher) or the Abrams having tons of S2/3, AP0, Assault 3 weapons (various machine guns) in addition to its S8, AP-2, Heavy D6 big gun.

From personal experience, all our soldiers would have BS6+ tho .

Their tanks dont really have active counter measures. No talk about EW and jamming capabilities. No drones for recce.

I'm not confident that modern earth would ever get a chance to shoot a gun at a Guardsman. We don't have orbital defenses, or planetary shields. We would just get lanced from space until we gave up.

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Their tanks dont really have active counter measures. No talk about EW and jamming capabilities. No drones for recce.

Thats a popular misconception, the guard and space marines use drones, little flying servitors to be precise, they drop thousands on a planet for recce purposes, but being the imperium not everyone does this all the time.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
There is only physics, not “real life physics” versus “fictional physics”.

Particulates suspended in the air defract light, including coherent light. Lasers are coherent light. It doesn’t matter how much power is pumped into the laser, aerosols will block lasers. Even the Navy’s new megawatt laser is useless if it rains.

Lasers also require time on target to transfer enough energy to damage a target, due to surface ablation. A laser will literally block itself by turning the surface it strikes into a gas. Pulsing the laser helps, as does sweeping the laser from side to side, but in the end it’s time on target that causes the damage needed. To use a Lasgun or Lascannon, the operator has to hold the beam on target for as long as they can, which is not conducive to staying alive in an active war zone. That’s way lasers in general are poor weapons. The US military are currently using weaponized lasers to blind opponents, and if able, to knock out small unmanned craft like drones and missiles. And, if given enough time on target, to set boats on fire.

SJ

hi actual physicist here. Smoke won’t block a laser as powerful as a lasgun, but they will greatly reduce range. All lasers have a scattering effect they are neve exactly parallel beams. Air quality amplifies this. How much of an effect this would have? Fiik

Heavy carbon smoke is opaque to infrared, and therefore blocks IR range lasers.

Aluminum based aerosols are opaque to microwave range lasers. And are cancerous.

What branch of physics do you study?

SJ

Opaqueness doesn’t apply the same at these energy levels.....

My specialty is thermodynamics dealing with firearms.

And my work is with plasma.

SJ

The Leman Russ would crap it's pants when faced by modern MBTs. The low profile and agile Russian tanks would literally run circles around the Imperiums armored vehicles.

Yes, if a Leman Russ actually hit a T-90 or Abrams, they would likely be destroyed. But honeslty I put money on American and Russian tanks getting first hit.

The Leman Russ is a terrible tank as has already been mentioned. And the Imperium is still limited by simple economics. The Leman Russ has to be affordable. It isn't made out of stardust. A 120/125mm APFSDS DU round is going to at minimum disable it. And then the Abrams or T-90 is going to out maneuver it until it's dead.

People seem to be forgetting how backwards the Imperium is. IG soldiers are most likely less capable than modern soldiers of first world armies today. The Lasgun however is something else. But again, better technology means nothing in the hands of poorly trained troops.

True IG veterans would be formidable though. But again at the attrition of the guard, I would put money on America's troops to be consistently better trained.

Airpower, yeah thats a tough one. But the Imperium has zero stealth tech and most leading Air Forces are starting to field some level of stealth in their mainline fighters. But, we rely on missles. No lascannons for us (yet).

I think if you take out certain things (Imperial Navy, Space Marines, vortex missles) it would be a very interesting fight between modern earth and the IG. Obviously the IG would ultimately win on numbers alone, but if you capped each side, out would be interesting.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Not sure how cannon regimental standard is but here it compares old tanks to lrbt
M

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/10/25/the-history-of-the-imperium-tanks-of-old-terra/

they mention that sloped armor is less effective s laser fire, which does raise an intreasting point, we talk about sloped armor like the be all end all but maybe it's less effective vs some 40k weapons? *shrugs*

 SickSix wrote:
The Leman Russ has to be affordable. It isn't made out of stardust.

Well you say that, but the armour is expected to give at least some limited protection against weapons described as turning bunkers into puddles.

And also you have this for the slightly bigger tanks:

Suddenly I had a sense of something badly wrong. Glancing around I could see one of those massive guns was pointing directly at us. I felt the urge to slam the treads of the Indomitable into reverse. It was too late. Time seemed to slow as it sometimes does in moments of maximum danger. I swear I saw the distant muzzle of that enormous gun flash and something huge blur towards us. A moment later the Baneblade rocked under a massive impact. Somebody somewhere in the cockpit screamed. ...‘Move us back a couple of hundred metres, Lemuel,’ the lieutenant ordered. ‘Straight back, front facing the enemy at all times.’ As if he had to tell me that. It seemed that even the lieutenant preferred not to have a repeat of another direct hit. A few seconds later another shell landed where we had been. It blasted a crater a hundred metres wide in the earth but we were not there to enjoy it. ... As we moved the gunner got the distance once again. Another mighty blow smashed into us. Such was its force that the front of the Indomitable rose into the air a metre or so and then fell back to earth. - "Angel of Fire"

BrianDavion wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Not sure how cannon regimental standard is but here it compares old tanks to lrbt
M

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/10/25/the-history-of-the-imperium-tanks-of-old-terra/

they mention that sloped armor is less effective s laser fire, which does raise an intreasting point, we talk about sloped armor like the be all end all but maybe it's less effective vs some 40k weapons? *shrugs*

well, against something like a laser against nonreflective armor, I imagine deflection would not factor in the way it does with a kinetic projectile (I believe, anyone with a greater background in physics feel free to correct me), but the armor thickness change that angling brings would still come into play. If the laser intends to kill by heating the target instead of punching through the armor, I could see a case for sloped armor not offering anything, but I'm not really aware of any 40k weapons like that.

 AtoMaki wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

Heavy stubbed = mg34 or equivalent
Missile launcher = at4
Autocannon = 20-25mm auto cannon
Predator autocannon = mk44 bushmaster ii

Now it is time for you to laugh, because the humble lasgun canonically has the same firepower as a .50cal Browning HMG (slightly more, actually). From here, the list would be as per the following:
- S3 (autoguns, lasguns): 10/12mm HMGs and GPMGs. Modern assault rifles and LMGs/MMGs would be most likely S2.
- S4 (boltguns): 20mm grenade round (literally an unpropelled bolt round) or 20-25mm autocannon round. A Bushmaster would be thus a meager S4.
- S5 (pulse rifles, heavy bolters): 30mm grenade round or a 30mm autocannon round. The GAU-8 Avenger on the Warthog would be S5 and AP-2/-3.
- S6 (multilasers): 50mm cannon round or a shoulder-fired rocket launcher like the RPG-7 and the AT4.
- S7 (autocannons): 75-90mm cannon round or an anti-tank missile like the Javelin.
- S8 (krak missiles, battle cannons): 120-150mm cannon round or an air-to-surface missile like the Maverick.
- S9 (lascannons): 200m cannon round or a Tomahawk-caliber cruise missile. Please note that in the 40k universe this level is supposedly for your anti-tank needs.
- S10 (doom rays): Davy Crockett I guess?

For armor values, it wouldn't be a whole lot better. A .50cal round can punch through anything below tank armor with relative ease. On the other hand, the lowly flak armor worn by a Guardsman can stop a lasgun (a .50cal equivalent) with a 33% chance. And that's a lot of protection, maybe the equivalent of a Stryker with an armor kit on. So we would have this:
- Sv 7+: ceramic/kevlar infantry armor. I'm very generous here by the way.
- Sv 6+: light vehicle armor. Old stuff like Shilkas, BTRs, and the M113 would be also here.
- Sv 5+: medium vehicle armor. Most modern APCs and some MRAPs.
- Sv 4+: heavy vehicle armor. IFVs, MRAPs, the works.
- Sv 3+: tank armor.
- Sv 2+: dunno, maybe an Abrams with full DU armor kit?

When it comes to other characteristics, I can't see our stuff faring too well either. A modern human would be S2/T2. An assault rifle S2, AP+1. The standard Abrams would look a lot like a slow Land Speeder (T6, W8, Sv3+). Our equipment would be really crappy but we would have a lot of 'em on every model, like the standard soldier also carrying an S4, AP0, Heavy D3 weapon (an underslung grenade launcher) or the Abrams having tons of S2/3, AP0, Assault 3 weapons (various machine guns) in addition to its S8, AP-2, Heavy D6 big gun.

From personal experience, all our soldiers would have BS6+ tho .

Your strength argument makes no sense. A guardsmen with a lasgun club is strength 3. You're saying they can club harder than a modern assault rifle can shoot a bullet?

 SickSix wrote:
The Leman Russ would crap it's pants when faced by modern MBTs. The low profile and agile Russian tanks would literally run circles around the Imperiums armored vehicles.

Yes, if a Leman Russ actually hit a T-90 or Abrams, they would likely be destroyed. But honeslty I put money on American and Russian tanks getting first hit.

The Leman Russ is a terrible tank as has already been mentioned. And the Imperium is still limited by simple economics. The Leman Russ has to be affordable. It isn't made out of stardust. A 120/125mm APFSDS DU round is going to at minimum disable it. And then the Abrams or T-90 is going to out maneuver it until it's dead.

People seem to be forgetting how backwards the Imperium is. IG soldiers are most likely less capable than modern soldiers of first world armies today. The Lasgun however is something else. But again, better technology means nothing in the hands of poorly trained troops.

True IG veterans would be formidable though. But again at the attrition of the guard, I would put money on America's troops to be consistently better trained.

Airpower, yeah thats a tough one. But the Imperium has zero stealth tech and most leading Air Forces are starting to field some level of stealth in their mainline fighters. But, we rely on missles. No lascannons for us (yet).

I think if you take out certain things (Imperial Navy, Space Marines, vortex missles) it would be a very interesting fight between modern earth and the IG. Obviously the IG would ultimately win on numbers alone, but if you capped each side, out would be interesting.

Guard are actually well trained aren't they? They come from the best of PDF regiments which are probably equal to things like the US army seeing as they have to defend a whole planet.

BrianDavion wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
Not sure how cannon regimental standard is but here it compares old tanks to lrbt
M

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/10/25/the-history-of-the-imperium-tanks-of-old-terra/

they mention that sloped armor is less effective s laser fire, which does raise an intreasting point, we talk about sloped armor like the be all end all but maybe it's less effective vs some 40k weapons? *shrugs*

Why would anyone even reference that piece? It's obviously tongue in cheek propaganda. It literally had zero credibility in this discussion.

 AtoMaki wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:

Heavy stubbed = mg34 or equivalent
Missile launcher = at4
Autocannon = 20-25mm auto cannon
Predator autocannon = mk44 bushmaster ii

Now it is time for you to laugh, because the humble lasgun canonically has the same firepower as a .50cal Browning HMG (slightly more, actually). From here, the list would be as per the following:
- S3 (autoguns, lasguns): 10/12mm HMGs and GPMGs. Modern assault rifles and LMGs/MMGs would be most likely S2.
- S4 (boltguns): 20mm grenade round (literally an unpropelled bolt round) or 20-25mm autocannon round. A Bushmaster would be thus a meager S4.
- S5 (pulse rifles, heavy bolters): 30mm grenade round or a 30mm autocannon round. The GAU-8 Avenger on the Warthog would be S5 and AP-2/-3.
- S6 (multilasers): 50mm cannon round or a shoulder-fired rocket launcher like the RPG-7 and the AT4.
- S7 (autocannons): 75-90mm cannon round or an anti-tank missile like the Javelin.
- S8 (krak missiles, battle cannons): 120-150mm cannon round or an air-to-surface missile like the Maverick.
- S9 (lascannons): 200m cannon round or a Tomahawk-caliber cruise missile. Please note that in the 40k universe this level is supposedly for your anti-tank needs.
- S10 (doom rays): Davy Crockett I guess?

For armor values, it wouldn't be a whole lot better. A .50cal round can punch through anything below tank armor with relative ease. On the other hand, the lowly flak armor worn by a Guardsman can stop a lasgun (a .50cal equivalent) with a 33% chance. And that's a lot of protection, maybe the equivalent of a Stryker with an armor kit on. So we would have this:
- Sv 7+: ceramic/kevlar infantry armor. I'm very generous here by the way.
- Sv 6+: light vehicle armor. Old stuff like Shilkas, BTRs, and the M113 would be also here.
- Sv 5+: medium vehicle armor. Most modern APCs and some MRAPs.
- Sv 4+: heavy vehicle armor. IFVs, MRAPs, the works.
- Sv 3+: tank armor.
- Sv 2+: dunno, maybe an Abrams with full DU armor kit?

When it comes to other characteristics, I can't see our stuff faring too well either. A modern human would be S2/T2. An assault rifle S2, AP+1. The standard Abrams would look a lot like a slow Land Speeder (T6, W8, Sv3+). Our equipment would be really crappy but we would have a lot of 'em on every model, like the standard soldier also carrying an S4, AP0, Heavy D3 weapon (an underslung grenade launcher) or the Abrams having tons of S2/3, AP0, Assault 3 weapons (various machine guns) in addition to its S8, AP-2, Heavy D6 big gun.

From personal experience, all our soldiers would have BS6+ tho .

I'm not sure where these stats are coming from. The game has modern firearms in it, Autoguns and pistols, and theyre S3. Heavy Stubbers have been described as being 8mm and 12mm machineguns, theyre S4 and we absolutely have those. We have 40mm grenade launchers that act and look very much like Heavy Bolters that fit in at S5. Most stuff in the 40k universe isnt using Adamantoum or wondermaterials, Ork armor and Guard autocannons are made from relatively mundane materials. Most RL weapons should transfer relatively straight into 40k, we have modern equivalents for many, from what technical details we have modern weapons are equally good or wayyyyyyy better than their 40k counterparts.