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Hey folks,

I'm considering doing a knightly household for the modelling/painting challenge and I want to bring some infantry to represent house retainers/men-at-arms.

My question is: Which kind of Imperial infantry would fit the role and have have a synergistic relationship with the Knight codex?

I am currently considering scions as the best options, thinking of arming them with plasma or melta and having them deep strike. My thought is they would be pretty safe while the opponent focuses down the "big scary walkers", and would be useful for objective capping and backfield shenanigans.

The other possibility I see are regular IG shock troops with one of the regimental rules applied, though not sure which would fit the role best. I am also not opposed to Scitarii as allies in the case I decide to go the Mechanicus route. I do not want to use SM or Custodes.

What would yu say is the most practical and useful in support of an already points hungry army like IK? Is it even worth it or should I spend the points on Armiger variants instead??

Thanks for your input!

Regular IG troops for chaff, CP, chaff clearing(mortars) etc. Basically standard IG guys.

Scions are best for deep strike which isn't good for chaff usage. You need screens etc. And scions are pricey. Again bad for cheap chaff. Knights lack chaff, not killing power

A cheap IG Battalion is basically always worth it with Imperium of all colours. Around 180pts for a load of quality chaff and 5cp is a great deal.

Admech or Guard. Personally I'm a fan of Krieg as they stick around a lot longer, holding objectives and screening till the bitter end. Yes, you're paying +10pts, so it's arguably not as competitive. I just take great pleasure in the work my one or two kriegsmen have done in holding objectives or chokepoints, agianst all odds, whilst covered in the brains of their squad.

I'm going to go for a bit of a curveball and say my favored IK support element would be

Mechanicus Battalion

Techpriest
Techpriest

10 Vanguard naked
10 Vanguard naked
10 Rangers 3 Arquebi plus Omnispex

Fortification: Plasma Obliterator

Stick the priests and the rangers in the obliterator, Vanguards can hide behind it. You maintain your list only presenting T8 for the most part, give yourself extra CPs, get two guys that can repair knights and some safe character sniping support.

Scions with Melta is a no go, guy. They can’t deepstrike and get good range.

I'm half-planning in the long term future a Knight/Feudal based army.

Lots of guardsmen, but with non-GW breastplates and armor to simulate they're not so technologically advanced...
Rough Rider cavalry...
Crusaders
A techpriest and skitarii escort.

More or less with concentrating most of your firepower into one or just a few (eg: armiger support) units you'll need chaff or objective grabbers.

 Apple Peel wrote:
Scions with Melta is a no go, guy. They can’t deepstrike and get good range.

Agreed.

Melta is overpriced this edition, you'll get way more mileage out of Plasma. Rapid fire overcharged plasma has the same chance to wound as Melta, good enough AP for most targets, and does 4 damage compared to the melta's average 3.5 (as you won't get to roll twice due to deep striking 9" away).

Downsides are that you might lose some guys to overcharge, but these are suicide troops anyway so you can only rely to get one volly off regardless, and the AP. Given this is for an army focussing on Knights, I think you'll have anti-tank down already though, so a weapon that can kill two 2W targets is probably a lot more useful than -4 AP here.

Thank you all for your input,

Yes, I had not considered the price vs effectiveness of melta, it shows I haven't played guard since 5th.

Of the IG regiments which suits the role of long range objective cappers and resilient chaff best? What would you arm them with? Dirt cheap line of las rifles, or throw on some special/heavy weapons as well? Would you add other support units?

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
Thank you all for your input,

Yes, I had not considered the price vs effectiveness of melta, it shows I haven't played guard since 5th.

Of the IG regiments which suits the role of long range objective cappers and resilient chaff best? What would you arm them with? Dirt cheap line of las rifles, or throw on some special/heavy weapons as well? Would you add other support units?

It's not that Melta is terrible, it's just outclassed a little

Cadians are nice campers if you do give them heavy weapons, due to rerolls 1s. Also if you can find the points that allows you to take Pask, who in my opinion is one of the best models in the game for his points. A Battlecannon that can fire twice with a 2+ to hit rerolling 1s is no joke!

As for loadout, Flamers to deter charges or Plasma because it's good for the special weapon. Mortars because they are super cheap indirect fire for the heavy weapon. If you don't plan to move, Lascannon or Autocannon is decent (especially with that Cadian doctrine) but as I said above you're likely carrying so many heavy weapons on your Knights it might not be worth it.

Taking them bare bones is totally fine though, I'd only give them Special/Heavy weapons if you just have points to use up.

I wouldn't generally bother giving the Sgt anything, but if you just have a couple of points to fill then a bolt pistol or Power Maul is not too bad. Power Maul is the optimal power weapon imo because it gives the best odds of hurting MEQs.

Just don't take any Knight Paladins, because then having a Battlecannon Pask will make you sadface when he puts the firepower of your 400 point paladin to shame.

Just take the Guard battalion with mortars. It’s cheap and all you really need.

I used to run deep striking scions as my CP battery, but Guard work a lot better. Cheap plasma is the main draw of the Scions, but you can get it with normal guard for about the same price anyway:

2x Tempestor Prime w/Rod
2x Scions w/Las Pistol, 2 Plasma Guns, 2 Hot Shots
Scions w/Las Pistol, 4 Hot Shots
Total: 288

2x Tempestor Prime w/Rod
3x Scions w/Plasma Pistol, 2 Plasma Guns, 2 Hot Shots
Total: 324

Company Commander
30 Guard
Tempestor
Scion Command 4 Plasma
Total: 283

I'm looking at either an Errant or a Valiant to add into my Sororitas/Mechanized IG list

Still sorta undecided. I like the knight for the idea of being able to push a big rock of a model into someone's face. The flamers on the Valiant will blend in nicely with my Immolators and Hellhounds!

How do people get those IG battalions for their armies. I started to play GK, and they don't work very well. Few people here told me to add IG to my army, but there is no starter sets for IG, and the boxs are crazy high cost. 10 IG dudes cost as much as my 5 termintors.

Guard Battalion, Kurov's Aquila and maybe a primaris psyker for a single deny. If it's over 200 points, you're doing it wrong.


[edit]
Of course, this assumes a (mainly) Imperial Knight army.

Adding some Helverins to a Guilliman/Ultramarine castle or a Castellan to a fluffy-with-a-punch AdMech army or something along those lines is another topic.

Karol wrote:
How do people get those IG battalions for their armies. I started to play GK, and they don't work very well. Few people here told me to add IG to my army, but there is no starter sets for IG, and the boxs are crazy high cost. 10 IG dudes cost as much as my 5 termintors.

Buy them 2nd hand

Vostroyans might be good for camping with their order, if I remember correctly. Plus, they get a longer range, so they are defending objectives sooner.

Models wise?

And purely models wise?

I’d say Solar Auxilia from 30k would look ace supporting Knights. Run as bog standard IG, with a more archaic, slightly more technologically advanced look.

Karol wrote:
How do people get those IG battalions for their armies. I started to play GK, and they don't work very well. Few people here told me to add IG to my army, but there is no starter sets for IG, and the boxs are crazy high cost. 10 IG dudes cost as much as my 5 termintors.

? 10 Man Cadian Infantry units MSRP $30. 5 man Terminator boxes MSRP $50. I've found my Guard Battalion to be one of the cheapest additions to my army overall. You can actually do it cheaper with the 5 man easy build boxes honestly.

 LunarSol wrote:

Karol wrote:
How do people get those IG battalions for their armies. I started to play GK, and they don't work very well. Few people here told me to add IG to my army, but there is no starter sets for IG, and the boxs are crazy high cost. 10 IG dudes cost as much as my 5 termintors.

? 10 Man Cadian Infantry units MSRP $30. 5 man Terminator boxes MSRP $50. I've found my Guard Battalion to be one of the cheapest additions to my army overall. You can actually do it cheaper with the 5 man easy build boxes honestly.

$/points is a bit rough with Guard. Especially those HWTs.

The answer is clearly scions and tauroxes.

Why? Because they're covered in that same sort of fleur de lys symbol thats all over the knights.

Clearly they go together.

 LunarSol wrote:

Karol wrote:
How do people get those IG battalions for their armies. I started to play GK, and they don't work very well. Few people here told me to add IG to my army, but there is no starter sets for IG, and the boxs are crazy high cost. 10 IG dudes cost as much as my 5 termintors.

? 10 Man Cadian Infantry units MSRP $30. 5 man Terminator boxes MSRP $50. I've found my Guard Battalion to be one of the cheapest additions to my army overall. You can actually do it cheaper with the 5 man easy build boxes honestly.

and then for each squad you have to buy a blister with special weapons and a box with heavy weapons. And that is just for one squad and you need three minimum, plus the models for command squads.

Is there something like a good stand in for GW models? I know recasting from China or Russia is illegal, because they are not in the EU. But are there any other firms that make IG models that look like the GW ones cheaper? I know there is a lot of stuff for marines, my store sells a lot of parts for them, but there is nothing for IG.

Karol wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Karol wrote:
How do people get those IG battalions for their armies. I started to play GK, and they don't work very well. Few people here told me to add IG to my army, but there is no starter sets for IG, and the boxs are crazy high cost. 10 IG dudes cost as much as my 5 termintors.

? 10 Man Cadian Infantry units MSRP $30. 5 man Terminator boxes MSRP $50. I've found my Guard Battalion to be one of the cheapest additions to my army overall. You can actually do it cheaper with the 5 man easy build boxes honestly.

and then for each squad you have to buy a blister with special weapons and a box with heavy weapons. And that is just for one squad and you need three minimum, plus the models for command squads.

Is there something like a good stand in for GW models? I know recasting from China or Russia is illegal, because they are not in the EU. But are there any other firms that make IG models that look like the GW ones cheaper? I know there is a lot of stuff for marines, my store sells a lot of parts for them, but there is nothing for IG.

I don't think it's worth taking special weapons for Guard infantry in a CP battery detachment. You can take mortars since their role is going to be objective sitting, but in terms of special weapons the only ones I see worth taking are grenade launchers, but even those I think are a better fit in an actual Guard army than a CP battery. Plasma guns are just way too expensive and are quite bad against prolific shooting penalties flooding the meta at the moment.

You aren't actually taking a Command squad, just grab a box and build two Company Commanders out of it.

Stux wrote:

Cadians are nice campers if you do give them heavy weapons, due to rerolls 1s. Also if you can find the points that allows you to take Pask, who in my opinion is one of the best models in the game for his points. A Battlecannon that can fire twice with a 2+ to hit rerolling 1s is no joke!

If you think battlecannon pask is no joke try all plasma'ed up pask. That thing vaporizes tons of stuff just like that. Only targets I have seen survive that fairly well have been some marine flyer when I rolled badly and knight.

I wouldn't generally bother giving the Sgt anything, but if you just have a couple of points to fill then a bolt pistol or Power Maul is not too bad. Power Maul is the optimal power weapon imo because it gives the best odds of hurting MEQs.

Bolters tend to pay off on sergeants.

Karol wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Karol wrote:
How do people get those IG battalions for their armies. I started to play GK, and they don't work very well. Few people here told me to add IG to my army, but there is no starter sets for IG, and the boxs are crazy high cost. 10 IG dudes cost as much as my 5 termintors.

? 10 Man Cadian Infantry units MSRP $30. 5 man Terminator boxes MSRP $50. I've found my Guard Battalion to be one of the cheapest additions to my army overall. You can actually do it cheaper with the 5 man easy build boxes honestly.

and then for each squad you have to buy a blister with special weapons and a box with heavy weapons. And that is just for one squad and you need three minimum, plus the models for command squads.

Is there something like a good stand in for GW models? I know recasting from China or Russia is illegal, because they are not in the EU. But are there any other firms that make IG models that look like the GW ones cheaper? I know there is a lot of stuff for marines, my store sells a lot of parts for them, but there is nothing for IG.

You can convert easily special weapon guys using Marine plastic weapons.

But most folk are running a bare bones no upgrades squad for 40pts. Their job is to zone deny, screen and absorb MW. Not to provide damage output. That’s kinda a bonus if they do.

You also don’t need Command Squads unless you really want them. Officers and Psykers on their own will fill your HQ slots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Stux wrote:

Cadians are nice campers if you do give them heavy weapons, due to rerolls 1s. Also if you can find the points that allows you to take Pask, who in my opinion is one of the best models in the game for his points. A Battlecannon that can fire twice with a 2+ to hit rerolling 1s is no joke!

If you think battlecannon pask is no joke try all plasma'ed up pask. That thing vaporizes tons of stuff just like that. Only targets I have seen survive that fairly well have been some marine flyer when I rolled badly and knight.

I wouldn't generally bother giving the Sgt anything, but if you just have a couple of points to fill then a bolt pistol or Power Maul is not too bad. Power Maul is the optimal power weapon imo because it gives the best odds of hurting MEQs.

Bolters tend to pay off on sergeants.

Second the Bolter Serg build. He actually gets to do something for only 1pt. I tend to run a Plasma Gun too just because that’s how I built the squads last edition. He can be super irritating when he remains alive and blats something worth more than his points, but that’s not a super competitive use of points.

You can convert easily special weapon guys using Marine plastic weapons.

But most folk are running a bare bones no upgrades squad for 40pts. Their job is to zone deny, screen and absorb MW. Not to provide damage output. That’s kinda a bonus if they do.

You also don’t need Command Squads unless you really want them. Officers and Psykers on their own will fill your HQ slots.

I don't really understand this arguments, maybe it is my bad english. A blister with special weapons, costs less then a box of devastators or spacemarine tacticals.
Same with command squads, an IG box costs less then a box of psykers or imperial officers.

What we're saying is you don't need or even want to buy any of that stuff. The point of IG as Knight support is to spend as few points as possible to get the CP Knights need to run and provide the bodies and volume of low quality shooting Knights lack. Literally all you need is 30 bog standard infantry with zero upgrades and 2 guys to use as your commander/HQs. The idea is to spend as little on them as possible so you have more to put into those knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

meleti wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Karol wrote:
How do people get those IG battalions for their armies. I started to play GK, and they don't work very well. Few people here told me to add IG to my army, but there is no starter sets for IG, and the boxs are crazy high cost. 10 IG dudes cost as much as my 5 termintors.

? 10 Man Cadian Infantry units MSRP $30. 5 man Terminator boxes MSRP $50. I've found my Guard Battalion to be one of the cheapest additions to my army overall. You can actually do it cheaper with the 5 man easy build boxes honestly.

$/points is a bit rough with Guard. Especially those HWTs.

Luckily the goal is to spend as few points as possible so you can put more of them into those ever so efficient $/point Knights.

I think Ad Mech is a solid choice. Tech-priests are cheap HQs that can repair Knights, the troops have minimum squad size of five so it is easy to fill the detachment slots, and you get the Knight of the Cog stratagem. With any Mechanicus aligned house I would definitely choose them.

Split the forgebane box with a Necron player twice, gets you a battalion and the armigers for quite cheap.