Switch Theme:

Random Thought: Fantasy World Cup Soccer- How would you make such a game?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Greetings,

Today is a thought exercise on game design more than anythigng else. If you were going to make a fantasy sports game based around the World Cup, what would you do and how would you do it?

The easy answer is to model it a bit on Blood Bowl/Guild Ball etc. and go from there. There are many fantasy American Football style games, but what would make Fantasy Futbol different from this model?

In addition, a board game "with models" is not the only potential way to model a World Cup game. You could also choose to do a card game, traditional board game, operational level, etc.

What approach would you use to kick this idea around?

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

 Easy E wrote:
If you were going to make a fantasy sports game based around the World Cup, what would you do and how would you do it?


Do you mean a tabletop game based on association football matches, or a more strategic game about winning a sports tournament?

For a "soccer" style game, I've had an idea mulling around for a while that heavily abstacts player movements etc. The pitch is divided up into about 12-15 zones and the ball's movement is tracked between them. Players take it in turns to play cards that either move the ball (long pass) or players, or could indicate something going on locally (attempted tackles, fouls etc). Dice rolls then indicate chances of success.

It's a very broad outline currently but it's a starting point I've had in mind for a few years now. A long time ago (when BB was popular in the 90s) I tried to make something like using a subbuteo pitch and Lego men but it was never remotely workable. "Soccer" is too fluid a game to break down into so many steps and turns.

For example:

How would you model this? 2 attacking players basically just carve a path through 5 defending players before the finish.



To weigh up the success of this, you've got to account for the technical skill of the players involved, the awareness of each other's movements and indeed their ability to make runs off the ball to give the player on the ball passing options. You've then got to factor in the off the ball movement of the attackers not even playing the ball as their presence is keeping defenders from committing too heavily in the initial stages.

I haven't played a lot of the newer sports games to know if they'd make a good basis.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/06/15 13:13:28


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 Riquende wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
If you were going to make a fantasy sports game based around the World Cup, what would you do and how would you do it?


Do you mean a tabletop game based on association football matches, or a more strategic game about winning a sports tournament?



I purposely left it vague as it is how YOU would try to handle it. I do not want to limit the conversation to a pre-designed path.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






For a soccer game, I'd be looking at an alternate-activation game rather than I go-you go.

Alternatively, a "push your luck" approach like Epic Armageddon, Warmaster or Song of Blades and Heroes - Make an action with a player - if you succeed, make another. Keep going until you fail. That's how I'd model something like the video clip above - the player controlling the red and blue team is moving first one attacker then the other, ending up with the one down the centre making a successful pass action to the other, who then makes a successful score action (probably modelled, rules-wise, as a "pass" to the opposing goal). With each action, the opposing player gets reactions - tackling the model with the ball, intercepting passes, that sort of thing. In this instance, he fails all those reactions; if the centre attacker had failed his dodge roll to run rings round the defender just outside the "D", then control of play would pass to the player in control of the white and blue team.

There wouldn't be "player turns" at all - just a flow of active and reactive player actions. For a turn limit, perhaps a count of the total number of actions performed.


Something like a dodgy tackle could either be made as a deliberate reaction, or it could be left to the dice - if the reactive player fails a Tackle roll, and the active player
fails his Dodge roll, then the rective player has brought him down; there would then be the chance of being booked and a free kick given.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Blood Bowl then remove all the fun.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
For a soccer game, I'd be looking at an alternate-activation game rather than I go-you go.

Alternatively, a "push your luck" approach like Epic Armageddon, Warmaster or Song of Blades and Heroes - Make an action with a player - if you succeed, make another. Keep going until you fail. That's how I'd model something like the video clip above - the player controlling the red and blue team is moving first one attacker then the other, ending up with the one down the centre making a successful pass action to the other, who then makes a successful score action (probably modelled, rules-wise, as a "pass" to the opposing goal). With each action, the opposing player gets reactions - tackling the model with the ball, intercepting passes, that sort of thing. In this instance, he fails all those reactions; if the centre attacker had failed his dodge roll to run rings round the defender just outside the "D", then control of play would pass to the player in control of the white and blue team.

There wouldn't be "player turns" at all - just a flow of active and reactive player actions. For a turn limit, perhaps a count of the total number of actions performed.


Something like a dodgy tackle could either be made as a deliberate reaction, or it could be left to the dice - if the reactive player fails a Tackle roll, and the active player
fails his Dodge roll, then the rective player has brought him down; there would then be the chance of being booked and a free kick given.


That is a great idea for a base mechanic to allow the flow of the game to show through.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in de
Primus





Palmerston North

Like BloodBowl but the ball is also a model that has its own base and occupies a square.

When the ball moves in and out of zones players have a chance to respond.

Oh and like AndrewGPaul wrote there is no limit to the number of times you can activate a model as long as a test is passed and the model is next to the ball.

Maybe to kick the ball 1 square require a roll of 1 and every successful kick can get a follow up move of 1 or 2 squares? Kinda like how Block works in Bloodbowl.

Players don't have turns, but have priority that passes whenever a test is failed like in Bloodbowl without the every model moves once thing.
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

Some kernels of good ideas above.

The one problem I have with tests to remain the active player is that with enough successes the attacking team could easily play through the defenders who are unable to get back or react in any way.

Unless the balance of the action tests is spot on so that it's ridiculously unlikely you can get too far away from a defender before they'll get a chance to react?

I just feel like the defending player shouldn't be penalised for the other player have a run of flukey dice results that don't allow for any sort of reactive move.

“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Perhaps there is a reaction Zone where a defender can make a test to activate when the attacker comes within the zone? Like a tackle zone but for reaction triggers?

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in de
Primus





Palmerston North

I think the attacking player should have all the agency, but I do think that when the ball moves into a tackle zone a test should be made to see if the ball is disrupted with +1 difficulty for each supporting defender (but not attacker), the same for moving out.

Or perhaps each move someone makes gains +1 difficulty, so with my previous example.

Kicking 1 square is difficulty 1 for a first activation.

For a second activation it is difficulty 1+1 and so on. If this penalty resets to zero after a pass then this would encourage passing.

I also had an idea regarding phases. There should probably be a separate attack phase and defence phase.

The attack phase is where the ball carrier gets to do what they want with the ball. The defence phase is where all players get to move their supporting players, I am not sure how many models or how many squares though.

Oh, perhaps the Goalie is allowed a free action for every attack action made within their own half?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 Riquende wrote:
Some kernels of good ideas above.

The one problem I have with tests to remain the active player is that with enough successes the attacking team could easily play through the defenders who are unable to get back or react in any way.

Unless the balance of the action tests is spot on so that it's ridiculously unlikely you can get too far away from a defender before they'll get a chance to react?

I just feel like the defending player shouldn't be penalised for the other player have a run of flukey dice results that don't allow for any sort of reactive move.


Sounds about right for some games. Especially where the defending team are playing in blue and white. :(

But what I'm thinking is that even if the attacking player manages to succeed with all his action rolls, the defender has a chance to move enough of their players into position where the likelihood of success plummets - unless the attacker has anticipated this and set up another player down the wing to accept the cross, etc. Even something like Epic Armageddon where successive activations get more difficult (but without the two-activation cap).

I admit, I'm not a football expert, but the important thing is that the game needs to flow. Blood Bowl doesn't - it deliberately progresses in fits and starts, because that's how American football plays seem to go.

I'd look at something like A Song of Blades and heroes - it has a similar sort of activation mechanic - or some of the Too Fat Lardies games
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

Check out dreadball's play. It's combat hockey-basketball-football-soccer, sort of. A player's front arc (hex-based game) is their threat zone. You gain cumulative penalties the more players are threatening an opposing player. Makes them more likely to trip, decreases their chances of succeeding at blocking/tackling, etc.

The game had a card mechanic (hand management) where a limited amount of reaction cards could come into play to interrupt the other guy's turn. It was very limited but something you had to keep in mind.

Thread Slayer 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Kamloops, BC

I think this concept would be a lot more fun if it was a fictional soccer league with made up teams and players.
   
 
Forum Index » Game Design
Go to: