US & NA Politics Thread

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**Ustrello**

KTG17 wrote:
Well he put himself at the head of the National SOCIALISTS, so going to go with that. Even still, take him out and you still have those other two clowns.

I think if you even read one book about Nazi Germany or the Nazi party you would realize how wrong you around about that first part

**d-usa**

I’m glad the fine folks of the Democratic Peoples Republican of North Korea are saved from dictatorship by the name of their country.

**Jihadin**

Ya. I think Trump going to pull off a second election unless the Dem's really get solidified behind something that's tangible.
Like before I'm calling Trump winning a second round

This tariff battle with the other nations though I'm going to predict that the US manufactoring sector going to be sourcing their material from within the US itself
being its cheaper....

**d-usa**

Many materials cannot be sourced from within the US because they are not manufactured in the US.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: this may be the cynical me speaking, but I also wouldn’t be surprised at all if companies would just raise prices 35% use a 25% tariff to justify it, and pocket the extra profit.

**Ustrello**

Jihadin wrote:
Ya. I think Trump going to pull off a second election unless the Dem's really get solidified behind something that's tangible.
Like before I'm calling Trump winning a second round

This tariff battle with the other nations though I'm going to predict that the US manufactoring sector going to be sourcing their material from within the US itself
being its cheaper....

You start a tariff war with the rest of the world and guess what? We lose

**Vaktathi**

Jihadin wrote:
Ya. I think Trump going to pull off a second election unless the Dem's really get solidified behind something that's tangible.
Like before I'm calling Trump winning a second round

This tariff battle with the other nations though I'm going to predict that the US manufactoring sector going to be sourcing their material from within the US itself
being its cheaper....

Given that total US production doesnt meet US demand, I suspect it will simply end up raisng costs. US steel producers certainly wont have any incentive to reduce prices.

From my own experience dealing with tariff related vendor price increases I have been receiving, at quadruple the normal rate for this season, that appears to be the track we are on.

**Manchu**

As previously noted, Nazism is off topic in this thread. There is no legitimate reason to discuss it here.

Second, if you think other posters are breaking the rules then please hit the modalert button or send me a PM. Fighting among yourselves over this is not acceptable.

Again, breaking the rules in this thread will result in being banned from the OT forum.

**Da Boss**

I disagree that it is off topic, but I will follow the instruction not to discuss it again. I realise it is not very PC to point it out, but I like to call it how I see it. I won't do it again.

**Vaktathi**

More on the topic of US manufacturing...

Harley-Davidson to move production for some motorcycles out of US after EU tariffs

Harley-Davidson will move the production of motorcycles bound for European countries out of the United States, citing rising costs from European Union (EU) tariffs on their products.

The company said in a filing Monday that the EU tariffs on motorcycles exported from the U.S. rose from 6 percent to 31 percent, the Associated Press reported. Motorcycles bound for European countries will now be produced in overseas factories.

Yay trade wars!

**Da Boss**

Trump says he wants tarrifs on European cars next. We'll all be poorer for it.

**Iron_Captain**

Vaktathi wrote:
More on the topic of US manufacturing...

Harley-Davidson to move production for some motorcycles out of US after EU tariffs

Harley-Davidson will move the production of motorcycles bound for European countries out of the United States, citing rising costs from European Union (EU) tariffs on their products.

The company said in a filing Monday that the EU tariffs on motorcycles exported from the U.S. rose from 6 percent to 31 percent, the Associated Press reported. Motorcycles bound for European countries will now be produced in overseas factories.
Yay trade wars!

It is great to see Trump create so many jobs... in other countries.

**Frazzled**

Da Boss wrote:
Trump says he wants tariffs on European cars next. We'll all be poorer for it.

Multiple European car makers already have manufacturing and assembly plants. Their domestic content may be substantially higher than GM and Ford.

You know he's serious when he puts 25,000% tariffs on French wine (something that might impact him).

Think of it this way. If he fails the next President will be viewed as a hero. Alternatively big business may shortly have a word with him...

**SkavenLord**

Da Boss wrote:
Trump says he wants tarrifs on European cars next. We'll all be poorer for it.

I could be wrong, but doesn’t the process of car manufacturing require shipping parts to multiple countries to complete it?

**Frazzled**

And in other news.

1) Rodney the Wiener Dog managed to walk almost 300 yard this morning. We had to take two breaks and he required "edible motivational aids" but thats the most he's walked since he hurt his back at the same park a month ago.

2)Maxine Waters condemned for urging harassment of Trump officials wherever they go.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/06/25/democratic-congresswoman-maxine-waters-calls-for-harassment-of-trump-officials/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.19f1d9e5dd61

Rep. Maxine Waters condemned for urging public harassment of Trump officials
By Avi Selk
June 25 at 10:39 AM
Email the author

Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) speaks at the 2018 California Democrats State Convention, Feb. 24, in San Diego. (Denis Poroy/AP)
Hypothetical question: If a former reality TV star can drag America toward autocracy, can a career Democrat tip it into mob rule?

Rep. Maxine Waters, who has represented various Southern California districts in Congress since 1991, leaned into her more recent role as a leader of the anti-Trump resistance over the weekend, earning widespread condemnation as she called for the public to “absolutely harass” President Trump's Cabinet officials on the streets, lest they help their boss turn the presidency into a dictatorship.

“The American people have put up with this president long enough. What more do we need to see? What more lies do we need to hear?” Waters shouted at a rally in Los Angeles on Saturday. “If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them!”

Her comments came a day after White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders was asked to leave a restaurant as she dined with family. Sanders's aborted dinner party followed spontaneous street protests against other Trump aides and allies, including Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, who left a Mexican restaurant to cries of “Shame!” last week.

The flash mobs are inspired, in particular, by the administration's new zero-tolerance policy on undocumented migrants, who Trump said this weekend should be stripped of their due process rights.

[The latest sign of political divide: Shaming and shunning public officials]

But Waters's indignation encompasses the entire Trump presidency — not just what he's done, but who she says he is.

“He loves the strong men and the dictators of the world, because he wants to be just like them. He wants to run the country like them,” the congresswoman told MSNBC on Sunday, a day after her rally.

“And I want to tell you,” she said, “for these members of his Cabinet who remain and try to defend him, they're not going to be able to go to a restaurant, to be able to stop at a gas station, to be able to shop at a department store. The people are going to turn on them, they're going to protest, they're going to absolutely harass them until they tell the president: 'No, I can't hang with you.'”

Her call to drive Trump officials from public life has made her a hero to many on the left — and disturbed not only Trump supporters but some moderates and Democrats who accuse her of hastening the country's descent from centuries-old civic standards.

3)The American Library Association removes Laura Ingoll's name from one of its award over concerns of how she portrayed Native Americans and Blacks in her works.
https://www.snopes.com/ap/2018/06/25/library-association-removes-laura-ingalls-wilders-name-award/

Associated Press U.S. Politics
Library Association Removes Laura Ingalls Wilder’s Name from Award
A division of the American Library Association has voted to remove Laura Ingalls Wilder's name from a major children's book award over concerns with how the early-to-mid 20th century author portrayed blacks and Native Americans.
By Associated Press 25 June 2018
Wikimedia Commons
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CHICAGO (AP) — A division of the American Library Association has voted to remove Laura Ingalls Wilder’s name from a major children’s book award over concerns with how the early-to-mid 20th century author portrayed blacks and Native Americans.

The Association for Library Service to Children’s board made the unanimous decision Saturday at a meeting in New Orleans. The name has been changed to the Children’s Literature Legacy Award.

The association says the work of Wilder — best known for her “Little House on the Prairie” novels — “includes expressions of stereotypical attitudes inconsistent with ALSC’s core values.”

The first award was given to Wilder in 1954. The ALSC says Wilder’s work continues to be published and read but her “legacy is complex” and “not universally embraced.”

The American Library Association is based in Chicago.

4. And on a tangential note and victory for da wimminz. Saudi women can now legally drive.
https://www.snopes.com/ap/2018/06/24/saudi-women-take-wheel-longstanding-driving-ban-ends/

**TheAuldGrump**

Ouze wrote:
KTG17 wrote:
[Lets for a moment look at what the left has brought to the world: Stalin, Mao, and yes, Hitler.

Hitler was not left wing nor socialist in any meaningful way, but was happy to steal the titles for branding.

Hitler sent the actual left wing and socialists in his country into concentration camps.

It is also fair to say that Trump and his most 'ardent' supporters are not similar to the Nazi party of the late Thirties and early Forties - but there are disturbing parallels with the Nazi party of the late Twenties and early Thirties.

We have not reached Krystalnacht.

Yet.

There is enough push back that it will probably never happen.

And Trump of 2018 is a lot older than Hitler of 1928.

Even on the right side, I do not see many willing to pick up that banner and run with it.

The Auld Grump - in truth, Trump has always seemed more of a Mussolini than a Hitler.

*EDIT* Heck, there was a movement in that direction in the US in the 1930s. The 1930s was a crazy time, driven in part by a world wide Depression.

**Frazzled**

And another post comparing Trump to Nazis. Excellent.

**Spinner**

Maybe he should stop talking about building camps for people that 'infest' the country, then.

**NinthMusketeer**

I'm not happy with Waters' statement nor the idea behind it. Harassing people because of their political position is a problem, not a solution.

**Sarouan**

Just an anecdote, but showing that this immigration stuff in USA is indeed inspiring fear...but maybe not on the intended target.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/23/jogger-held-us-authorities-accidentally-crossing-border-mexico/

French woman held by US immigration after accidentally jogging across border from Canada

Cedella Roman, 19, was held for two weeks after accidentally crossing from Canada into the US while jogging on the beach
Cedella Roman, 19, was held for two weeks after accidentally crossing from Canada into the US while jogging on the beach Credit: Facebook

Agence France-Presse

23 June 2018 • 5:34am

A young French woman who was visiting her mother in western Canada spent two weeks in a US detention center after inadvertently crossing the border while jogging along the beach, a report said Friday.

Cedella Roman, 19, ran across the border just south of the town of White Rock in Canada's British Columbia, into the US state of Washington on the evening of May 21, she told the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC).

She headed back when the tide began to come in, going up toward a dirt path before stopping to take a photo of the stunning scenery, then turned around to retrace her steps.

It was then that she was apprehended by two US Border Patrol officers who told her she had crossed illegally and had been caught on camera.

"I told him I had not done it on purpose, and that I didn't understand what was happening," she told CBC.

Ms Roman protested that she hadn't seen any warning signs, and didn't initially anticipate how serious the matter would become.

"I said to myself, well I may have crossed the border - but they'll probably only give me a fine or they'll tell me to go back to Canada or they'll give me a warning."

Complicating matters, Ms Roman, who had come to Canada to visit her mother and work on her English, wasn't carrying any government-issued ID on her at the time.

She was transferred by the officers to the Tacoma Northwest Detention Centre, run by the Department of Homeland Security, 200 kilometers (120 miles) to the south.

"They put me in the caged vehicles and brought me into their facility," she said. "They asked me to remove all my personal belongings with my jewelry, they searched me everywhere.

"Then I understood it was getting very serious, and I started to cry a bit."

When she reached the centre, she contacted her mother, Christiane Ferne, who quickly reached the centre with her passport and study permits - but the workers at the site said the documents would have to be verified by Canadian authorities.

She was held at the centre for two weeks before the matter was resolved and she was allowed to return to Canada.

Ms Ferne said the lack of clear signs had led to her daughter's predicament. "It's like a trap... anybody can be caught at the border like this," she said.

US Immigration and Customs Enforcement confirmed to CBC that Roman was discharged on June 6. But neither the ICE nor Immigration Canada would comment further on the case, citing privacy concerns.

A spokesperson for the US Customs and Border Protection told CBC that anyone who enters the US outside an official port of entry and without inspection has crossed the border illegally and will be detained.

"This applies regardless of whether or not the individual claims to have inadvertently crossed the border," the department said.

**Desubot**

SkavenLord wrote:
Da Boss wrote:
Trump says he wants tarrifs on European cars next. We'll all be poorer for it.

I could be wrong, but doesn’t the process of car manufacturing require shipping parts to multiple countries to complete it?

Lot of that stuff goes down to South America for that sweet NAFTA tariffs.

**skyth**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm not happy with Waters' statement nor the idea behind it. Harassing people because of their political position is a problem, not a solution.

This administration has strayed a bit far from 'political positions' in my opinion due to the constant lying, racism, and corruption. I wouldn't support this for the Bush administration (either of them). But the Trump administration sure. This is a matter of common decency, not politics.

**Frazzled**

skyth wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm not happy with Waters' statement nor the idea behind it. Harassing people because of their political position is a problem, not a solution.

This administration has strayed a bit far from 'political positions' in my opinion due to the constant lying, racism, and corruption. I wouldn't support this for the Bush administration (either of them). But the Trump administration sure. This is a matter of common decency, not politics.

So you decide when its appropriate to start harassing people? Thats interesting. The other side can do that quite effectively too.
Just another step down the dark path.

**NinthMusketeer**

skyth wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm not happy with Waters' statement nor the idea behind it. Harassing people because of their political position is a problem, not a solution.

This administration has strayed a bit far from 'political positions' in my opinion due to the constant lying, racism, and corruption. I wouldn't support this for the Bush administration (either of them). But the Trump administration sure. This is a matter of common decency, not politics.

Common decency would say we don't harass people. And even from a strictly pragmatic perspective this isn't going to help.

**Spinner**

I dunno, "supports abducting and transporting children across the country to scare people into not wanting to come here" seems like a pretty good line to draw for not getting to go out for enchiladas in peace.

This administration is always totally, pearl-clutchingly shocked, shocked, I say, whenever they face any sort of pushback or consequences. They won't even get rid of Scott freaking Pruitt. The GOP, the party currently in control of every branch of government, isn't interested in standing up to them - why would they? It's Team Red. Maybe a few fed-up waiters telling it like it is can do what they won't.

**Vaktathi**

While I dont agree with Waters' statement, if thats the hill we're gonna choose to die on over common decency, well, I feel comfortable stating that we should probably be aiming elsewhere.

These are public officials leading public lives driving public policy in positions of wealth and power, who ran on a platform of "feth your feelings", and have been caustic, divisive, belligerent, insulting and offensive, and intentionally so, for the last several years since Trump started his campaign and have only kicked it into higher gear since entering office, and who are currently pushing policies that not too long ago would have been thought impossible in the US by common standards of decency.

So, while I dont condone people going out and harrassing others, if we're complain about common decency, that's a hard pill to swallow in this case.

**Frazzled**

Vaktathi wrote:
While I dont agree with Waters' statement, if thats the hill we're gonna choose to die on over common decency, well, I feel comfortable stating that we should probably be aiming elsewhere.

These are public officials leading public lives driving public policy in positions of wealth and power, who ran on a platform of "feth your feelings", and have been caustic, divisive, belligerent, insulting and offensive, and intentionally so, for the last several years since Trump started his campaign and have only kicked it into higher gear since entering office, and who are currently pushing policies that not too long ago would have been thought impossible in the US by common standards of decency.

So, while I dont condone people going out and harrassing others, if we're complain about common decency, that's a hard pill to swallow in this case.

Just remember, the same will be visited on the Democrats as well. While I support their right of free speech and association and would not attempt to stop it legally (as long as they don't violate the law), it will just continue us down the path.

South of the border, political candidates are routinely being executed.

**Da Boss**

I can see your point Fraz, and maybe you think this is just my incredible political bias talking (and hey, maybe it is) but I think the Republican movement, pretty much starting with the Tea Party but continuing on a trajectory to the now Trump Party has been lowering the standard of discourse, peddling conspiracy theories and attacking individuals for a long time. If ordinary people are fighting back against representatives who are sticking up for morally indefensible policy, I see it as a natural consequence.

And maybe I am wrong, but I do not remember some of you guys currently being a bit precious about the language I and others are using being quite as precious when it was going the other way, you know?

But you have a point in that if there is going to be a way forward for America it seems like detoxifying public discourse is an important, nay vital, part of that.

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
While I dont agree with Waters' statement, if thats the hill we're gonna choose to die on over common decency, well, I feel comfortable stating that we should probably be aiming elsewhere.

These are public officials leading public lives driving public policy in positions of wealth and power, who ran on a platform of "feth your feelings", and have been caustic, divisive, belligerent, insulting and offensive, and intentionally so, for the last several years since Trump started his campaign and have only kicked it into higher gear since entering office, and who are currently pushing policies that not too long ago would have been thought impossible in the US by common standards of decency.

So, while I dont condone people going out and harrassing others, if we're complain about common decency, that's a hard pill to swallow in this case.

Just remember, the same will be visited on the Democrats as well. While I support their right of free speech and association and would not attempt to stop it legally (as long as they don't violate the law), it will just continue us down the path.

South of the border, political candidates are routinely being executed.

Good gracious... does everyone forget the attempted assasination attempt of Steve Scalise on baseball field, by a Bernie Bro????

People will get hurt with rhetoric like this.

**Steelmage99**

whembly wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
While I dont agree with Waters' statement, if thats the hill we're gonna choose to die on over common decency, well, I feel comfortable stating that we should probably be aiming elsewhere.

These are public officials leading public lives driving public policy in positions of wealth and power, who ran on a platform of "feth your feelings", and have been caustic, divisive, belligerent, insulting and offensive, and intentionally so, for the last several years since Trump started his campaign and have only kicked it into higher gear since entering office, and who are currently pushing policies that not too long ago would have been thought impossible in the US by common standards of decency.

So, while I dont condone people going out and harrassing others, if we're complain about common decency, that's a hard pill to swallow in this case.

Just remember, the same will be visited on the Democrats as well. While I support their right of free speech and association and would not attempt to stop it legally (as long as they don't violate the law), it will just continue us down the path.

South of the border, political candidates are routinely being executed.

Good gracious... does everyone forget the attempted assasination attempt of Steve Scalise on baseball field, by a Bernie Bro????

People will get hurt with rhetoric like this.

Did you for a second think to include Gabrielle Giffords when you mentioned Steve Scalise?

You know, to address the toxicity in American political discourse in general......or was it a blind partisan attempt at scoring a point for you?

Or are you going attempt to argue that since Giffords was shot in 2012, it isn't a part of the current toxicity?

**Mrs. Esterhouse**

What I want to know is, with the current administration that's in office, where's all the new good punk music at? I would think it's a perfect breeding ground. Or am I just old and out of the loop?