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Reemule wrote:
I think it is funny how closely GW was able to replicate all the rules and options of the Dex IK with an 8 page faq. A few less options, and nothing like Freeblades, but othersize, so close.

I would point out that the rule of three does affect the Chaos side more with Armigers. You can only field a max of 9, where the Imperials can field 18 if desired. Not a huge deal, but something.

Thats a Good spot max of 9 armiger's 3 questorus and 3 dominus knights for renegade lists

To be honest, one renegade Valiant with two super-flamers would be a little... bonkers.

ValentineGames wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It's just the Dominus and Armigers which don't--which is the smart move since people would be crying about needing to buy two kits to make one thing.

Like how getting a Plasma Cannon in a tactical squad requires 2 box sets?

And those two boxed sets give you enough weapons to outfit multiple Tactical Squads with the same (or different) weapon while still also building a Devastator Squad with the remaining weapons.

Or a heavy weapon team in a guard squad requires two box sets?

Neophyte Hybrid Squads exists. There's nothing left out of the Cadian Shock Troop or Heavy Weapon Team kits. It just comes with the GSC sprue as well.

But buying 2 £95 knights to get two gatling cannons is ok...
The logic escapes me...

Knight Renegade's a thing. A lot of people when it came out the first time bought multiples and started building the double Gatling Cannons, double Thermals, or double RFBCs for their Renegades. It was only the Gatling Cannon that required a second Warden.

Well points would likely be high.

 Galas wrote:
To be honest, one renegade Valiant with two super-flamers would be a little... bonkers.

Or a Castellan with two Volcano Lances. Bonkers indeed.

That's their fault for making it a 10pts weapon

Why? If a model is balanced behind the idea of having just one of a given weapon, thats totally fine.

ValentineGames wrote:
That's their fault for making it a 10pts weapon

Wasn#t it 0? And reason is it's built in, can't be swapped, nobody can swap other to it. It's not value of gun straight. Or do you think shadowsword's volcano is worth 0?


If you could double those prices would be per weapon. Now price is built into chassis

ValentineGames wrote:
That's their fault for making it a 10pts weapon

They literally backed into a base point cost and just gave the most minimal points to upgrades to make them match the IK points.

Trail of Destruction is actually pretty needed, since Renegade Knights cannot benefit from Prescience or a Re-Roll bubble from a Lord or Prince. Its really the only way to buff your accuracy.

The Armigers are suffering from the same problem honestly, no access to support buffs from either CSM or Daemons. Would you ever really be better off with an Armiger as compared to a Forgefiend? Forgefiends having access to the Daemonforge Strategem, and a plethora of psychic buffs would appear to tip the scales in their favor. Similarly, are you getting anything out of a warglaive that wouldn't be done by a Maulerfiend? I feel like the Armigers would be a much better choice if they had some key words that let them be buffed.

The more I look at it the more I think they did a really good job on the Renegade mini dex. The Warlord trait is useful. The relic is useful. The cost is pretty spot close to where they were in the IK dex. Small things like Helverin equivalents being 5 points less are meaningless.

I'm wondering if I'll see any straight knight renegades on the table. I think they could be viable, but Soup has its attractions.

I do suspect you will see Amigers as lord of wars in standard Chaos forces. They are pretty cheap for what they give and fast.

 akaean wrote:
Trail of Destruction is actually pretty needed, since Renegade Knights cannot benefit from Prescience or a Re-Roll bubble from a Lord or Prince. Its really the only way to buff your accuracy.

The Armigers are suffering from the same problem honestly, no access to support buffs from either CSM or Daemons. Would you ever really be better off with an Armiger as compared to a Forgefiend? Forgefiends having access to the Daemonforge Strategem, and a plethora of psychic buffs would appear to tip the scales in their favor. Similarly, are you getting anything out of a warglaive that wouldn't be done by a Maulerfiend? I feel like the Armigers would be a much better choice if they had some key words that let them be buffed.

I often take a predator. I really love the AC on it (40 points). 180 for that plus two lascannons. Sometimes it has reroll 1s and sometimes not.

So, if I could take the predator AC twice the predator would cost 170 points, which is the same as the Helverin...EXCEPT I now get +1 wound, 5++, and move without penalty.

You're damn right i'm taking these!

A Forgefiend with 2 AC is 177. It has a 5++ and a heal, but then it's BS4 with no option to move and much less range. They can get buffs, sure, but then you're spending points to do that and I have tons of stuff I can buff. A strong unit that can hide well, move when the time is right, and deploy at really long ranges is so, so useful.

My World Eaters Knight is a golden boy now. Nothing but the fist and sword, how Khorne intended! All for the low price of 354.

It's always happy to see players who put effort into making an amazing model have the knowledge they can use that peice of art for an edition longer. You could have been left behind to the point your points make the model unfun to play but you have an update and that's great! Let's just hope they didn't do this because all the devs have renegade knights. XD Let's hope future factions *cough* Orks and GSC *cough* get the same treatment.

 lolman1c wrote:
XD Let's hope future factions *cough* Orks and GSC *cough* get the same treatment.

I'm sure the Space Wolves will get plenty of love...

What I really want to know is, can an ork have one?

 Rismonite wrote:
What I really want to know is, can an ork have one?

Absolutely they can! They even have datasheets already printed in the codex - Gorkanaut and Morkanaut.

(Only half kidding. I think a looted Knight being used as an Orkanaut could look awesome, and some of the loadouts are pretty much a perfect fit)

Aelyn wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
What I really want to know is, can an ork have one?

Absolutely they can! They even have datasheets already printed in the codex - Gorkanaut and Morkanaut.

(Only half kidding. I think a looted Knight being used as an Orkanaut could look awesome, and some of the loadouts are pretty much a perfect fit)

If I had my way I'd have a blood Axe 'index' which is just every vechile in existence just crappy. So BS 5+ maybe 1 less armour save... I wouldn't even care if it was the same points value, it would just be funny to play with.

 lolman1c wrote:

Aelyn wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:
What I really want to know is, can an ork have one?

Absolutely they can! They even have datasheets already printed in the codex - Gorkanaut and Morkanaut.

(Only half kidding. I think a looted Knight being used as an Orkanaut could look awesome, and some of the loadouts are pretty much a perfect fit)

If I had my way I'd have a blood Axe 'index' which is just every vechile in existence just crappy. So BS 5+ maybe 1 less armour save... I wouldn't even care if it was the same points value, it would just be funny to play with.

I think that was literally an option in an Ork Codex a few editions ago - they could take any Imperial vehicle (not sure if it allowed other Xenos) for the standard cost, changing its BS to 2 and giving it the Ork vehicle upgrade list. It would be interesting to see how that could be done in 8th. The BS would have to change to 5+ of course, but I'm thinking you could do something with the degradation chart like making each change happen 2 wounds earlier.

For get us, you should be apologising to Duncan for what they did to him because of this

The deed is worth some applaus, GW isn't keen on doing that most of the time!

I can't judge of its quality, not being a knight player myself, but that's still better than nothing.

Reemule wrote:
The more I look at it the more I think they did a really good job on the Renegade mini dex. The Warlord trait is useful. The relic is useful. The cost is pretty spot close to where they were in the IK dex. Small things like Helverin equivalents being 5 points less are meaningless.

I'm wondering if I'll see any straight knight renegades on the table. I think they could be viable, but Soup has its attractions.

I do suspect you will see Amigers as lord of wars in standard Chaos forces. They are pretty cheap for what they give and fast.

i guess we will see some armiger superheavy detachements (they are cheap quite decent durable and they have good firepower), i doubt we will see some renegade knight of other kind, they are cheaper yes but not enough to justify the lack of any sinergy with chaos armies, no mark no legions, nothing.

Would ork players like to see a Codex Ork Gorkanaut?

 Strg Alt wrote:
Would ork players like to see a Codex Ork Gorkanaut?

our nauts only have 1 option... we don't get to pick anything else other that if we want a kff or not.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
Would ork players like to see a Codex Ork Gorkanaut?

our nauts only have 1 option... we don't get to pick anything else other that if we want a kff or not.

Theoretically (possibly extremely theoretically) they could add a sprue with extra options in the same way as the Wazbom jet.

It would be a bit weird though.

I don't know... I already built mine and won't be hpgetting another one. It's a nice central figure in a evil sunz army that runs along side my trukks.

Tyel wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
Would ork players like to see a Codex Ork Gorkanaut?

our nauts only have 1 option... we don't get to pick anything else other that if we want a kff or not.

Theoretically (possibly extremely theoretically) they could add a sprue with extra options in the same way as the Wazbom jet.

It would be a bit weird though.

Not that weird considering knights got an upgrade sprue to make more variants and are about to get a second upgrade sprue.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
Would ork players like to see a Codex Ork Gorkanaut?

our nauts only have 1 option... we don't get to pick anything else other that if we want a kff or not.

Imo it would be a great idea. People like giant robots. Include a new big and one or two smaller walker kits akin to the armigers.

I would prefer they make the rules actually good for once with thr nauts and stompa before trying to get us to buy more...
Never known gw to bring something out that's just bad rules from day one and got worse over time.

 lolman1c wrote:
I would prefer they make the rules actually good for once with thr nauts and stompa before trying to get us to buy more...
Never known gw to bring something out that's just bad rules from day one and got worse over time.

From what I have heard so far, the new rules for the big imperial knight do not suck. So there is evidence that GW can write rules to promote sales.