Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)

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**AduroT**

Star Trek is explicitly social commentary. That’s like a primary driving force for the series.

**Elemental**

AduroT wrote:
Star Trek is explicitly social commentary. That’s like a primary driving force for the series.

Social commentary about how mistaken those silly people in the past were is good. Social commentary about modern-day issues that might make me feel uncomfortable is bad. Pretty simple!

**AduroT**

Too bad! You’re getting the uncomfortable stuff! This Is after all the show that gave us our first televised interracial kiss.

**Overread**

Elemental wrote:
AduroT wrote:
Star Trek is explicitly social commentary. That’s like a primary driving force for the series.

Social commentary about how mistaken those silly people in the past were is good. Social commentary about modern-day issues that might make me feel uncomfortable is bad. Pretty simple!

It only feels like its the past because the world has moved on. The Original Series had women and different races all together as core actors within the series. They weren't purely token characters who only appeared once. Today we don't even see that as social commentary, its just normal. In the past it was very different.

Star Trek has always had this component, in part sometimes commenting on our past; but also commenting on our current standards and attitudes.

**insaniak**

AduroT wrote:
This Is after all the show that gave us our first televised interracial kiss.

It's actually not, although it is arguably the most well-known of the early examples.

Mind you, the social commentary in a show like Star Trek does have to be tweaked to fit the setting. We just got to the episodes with 7 of 9 last night, and Picard assuming the pilot of the fighter was a bloke was jarring. I mean, it was clearly intended as a bit of misdirection, given that he even placed a rather obvious emphasis on the 'him' when he said 'Beam him out'... but that's a really, really weird assumption for someone like Picard to make.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I’m wondering if people are missing the point?

Star Trek is meant to be aspirational. A better, wiser version of us, with petty differences put aside - because we found we weren’t alone in the stars.

Starfleet had done away with money. Food and Industrial Replicators mean as long as there’s a power supply, nobody need go without.

Their society is close to a meritocracy, with differing skills all being valued.

DS9 drew back the curtain a little. It didn’t expose The Federation as a sham as such, more as a work in progress. Imperfect, but working on it.

Picard is following up on that. It’s shown Starfleet as being infiltrated by a hostile foe. It’s shown that whilst humanity has largely grown out of its infancy, it’s still a moody teenager.

The man himself continues to seek peaceful ‘third options’. The man to see shades of grey where others insist there’s only black and white. That’s bang on the theme of the modern day, where it feels like only the loonies are given airtime.

If you don’t like social commentary and critique? Star Trek isn’t the show for you.

Anyways. Anyone know when Disco Season 3 is landing?

**BobtheInquisitor**

Some people also prefer shows that are well written, directed, or edited, too. Plenty of reasons not to watch Kurtzman Trek.

**LordofHats**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Indeed.

Trek’s social commentary has always been a la mode.

I think one of the most baffling things about the ST audience, can be how incredibly reserved (we'll call it that) it can be. It's really kind of mind boggling considering the show really skirted some lines back in the TOS era. Later series' were a bit less boundary pushing and a bit more tame for the most part, but TOS era Trek went out of its way to push social commentary and was not ashamed of doing so.

**chromedog**

"True" trek fans wanted TNG cancelled because it wasn't "star trek" back in 1987.

They've done it to each iteration since, too.

You can't satisfy gatekeepers.

**beast_gts**

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds confirmed - Pike, Spock, and Number One On The U.S.S. Enterprise

CBS wrote:Star Trek: Strange New Worlds To Follow Captain Pike, Spock, and Number One On The U.S.S. Enterprise

CBS All Access orders new series Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, starring Anson Mount, Rebecca Romijn, and Ethan Peck.

The Star Trek universe is adding another new series to its ranks!

CBS All Access has ordered a full series of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, based on the years where Captain Christopher Pike (Anson Mount) helms the U.S.S. Enterprise.

The series will feature Star Trek: Discovery Season 2 fan favorites Anson Mount as Captain Christopher Pike, Rebecca Romijn as Number One, and Ethan Peck as Science Officer Spock.

The series will follow the trio in the decade before Captain Kirk boarded the U.S.S. Enterprise, as they explore new worlds around the galaxy.

"Fans fell in love with Anson Mount, Rebecca Romijn, and Ethan Peck's portrayals of these iconic characters when they were first introduced on Star Trek: Discovery last season," said Julie McNamara, Executive Vice President and Head of Programming, CBS All Access. "This new series will be a perfect complement to the franchise, bringing a whole new perspective and series of adventures to Star Trek."

"When we said we heard the fans' outpouring of love for Pike, Number One, and Spock when they boarded Star Trek: Discovery last season, we meant it," said Executive Producer Alex Kurtzman. "These iconic characters have a deep history in Star Trek canon, yet so much of their stories have yet to be told. With Akiva and Henry at the helm, the Enterprise, its crew, and its fans are in for an extraordinary journey to new frontiers in the Star Trek universe."

"This is a dream come true, literally," said Executive Producer Akiva Goldsman. "I have imagined myself on the bridge of the Enterprise since the early 1970s. I'm honored to be a part of this continuing journey along with Alex, Henry, and the fine folks at CBS."

The series premiere was written by Akiva Goldsman with a story by Goldsman, Kurtzman, and Jenny Lumet. Goldsman, Kurtzman, and Lumet will serve as executive producers in addition to Henry Alonso Myers, Heather Kadin, Rod Roddenberry, and Trevor Roth.

Aaron Baiers, Akela Cooper, and Davy Perez will serve as co-executive producers. Goldsman will remain an executive producer and a key part of the creative team on Star Trek: Picard as well.

The series will be produced by CBS Television Studios, Secret Hideout, and Roddenberry Entertainment.

CBS & StarTrek.Com

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Interesting.

Hope they’re not stretching story sources though, given that’s three life actions being juggled.

**pgmason**

I am excited for this. It would be a good opportunity to do a more 'traditional' TOS/TNG episodic style. Not everything has to be a series long mystery arc.

**Overread**

The real risk with doing multiple series at once is when you start to cross reference them within each other at set times. So you end up with something like the Marvel Universe movies and tie-in TV shows where they all sort of connect together at key points so you're happily enjoying a series and then suddenly you've got to watch a film to catch up - only that film is a sequel that requires you to watch other films to catch up with them etc...

It's fine for fans who are up to date with it all as it comes out; but any who might only be watching one or two (esp if they come out on different TV services) will get confused. It also makes it an utter mess when you come back in 5 years and try to catch up.

It's something TV hasn't really had, but which the big US comics have been doing for years. They, of course, can make it even more confusing when random crossover or "halloween not-serious specials" suddenly become canon or you get those limited edition stories that then vanish once they are sold out etc....

**warboss**

Here's hoping the third time's the charm!

**BrianDavion**

Overread wrote:
The real risk with doing multiple series at once is when you start to cross reference them within each other at set times. So you end up with something like the Marvel Universe movies and tie-in TV shows where they all sort of connect together at key points so you're happily enjoying a series and then suddenly you've got to watch a film to catch up - only that film is a sequel that requires you to watch other films to catch up with them etc...

It's fine for fans who are up to date with it all as it comes out; but any who might only be watching one or two (esp if they come out on different TV services) will get confused. It also makes it an utter mess when you come back in 5 years and try to catch up.

It's something TV hasn't really had, but which the big US comics have been doing for years. They, of course, can make it even more confusing when random crossover or "halloween not-serious specials" suddenly become canon or you get those limited edition stories that then vanish once they are sold out etc....

course the timelines in trek are so differant I doubt it'll come up.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Overread wrote:
Elemental wrote:
AduroT wrote:
Star Trek is explicitly social commentary. That’s like a primary driving force for the series.

Social commentary about how mistaken those silly people in the past were is good. Social commentary about modern-day issues that might make me feel uncomfortable is bad. Pretty simple!

It only feels like its the past because the world has moved on. The Original Series had women and different races all together as core actors within the series. They weren't purely token characters who only appeared once. Today we don't even see that as social commentary, its just normal. In the past it was very different.

Star Trek has always had this component, in part sometimes commenting on our past; but also commenting on our current standards and attitudes.

I'm pretty sure he was joking when he said that. least I hope he was.

**KamikazeCanuck**

Wow, I guess they did some focus testing and found Pike to be pretty popular. Wasn't there also going to be another Trek called "Lower Decks" that was supposed to be more comedic?

**warboss**

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Wow, I guess they did some focus testing and found Pike to be pretty popular. Wasn't there also going to be another Trek called "Lower Decks" that was supposed to be more comedic?

Yup... and then some sort of another tween cartoon... and the section 31 show. If you had asked me five years ago when they announced the return of trek to tv (of sorts ala streaming) that I'd be rooting most for yet another adventure on a pseudo-Connie, I'd have disagreed. Now, after one average and two bad seasons of nuTrek, I think it's the last best hope for quality trek to co-opt a phrase from the intro of another show. Obviously, that's just an opinion and others are free to enjoy what they want regardless.

I find it interesting that Anson Mount's intro to the announcement specifically points out that this will be a return to a hopeful vision of the future instead of more of the DystopuTrek that we've gotten so far.

**AduroT**

Overread wrote:
The real risk with doing multiple series at once is when you start to cross reference them within each other at set times. So you end up with something like the Marvel Universe movies and tie-in TV shows where they all sort of connect together at key points so you're happily enjoying a series and then suddenly you've got to watch a film to catch up - only that film is a sequel that requires you to watch other films to catch up with them etc...

It's fine for fans who are up to date with it all as it comes out; but any who might only be watching one or two (esp if they come out on different TV services) will get confused. It also makes it an utter mess when you come back in 5 years and try to catch up.

It's something TV hasn't really had, but which the big US comics have been doing for years. They, of course, can make it even more confusing when random crossover or "halloween not-serious specials" suddenly become canon or you get those limited edition stories that then vanish once they are sold out etc....

The CW DC shows do it all the time, they call it the Arrowverse.

**BrianDavion**

warboss wrote:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Wow, I guess they did some focus testing and found Pike to be pretty popular. Wasn't there also going to be another Trek called "Lower Decks" that was supposed to be more comedic?

Yup... and then some sort of another tween cartoon... and the section 31 show. If you had asked me five years ago when they announced the return of trek to tv (of sorts ala streaming) that I'd be rooting most for yet another adventure on a pseudo-Connie, I'd have disagreed. Now, after one average and two bad seasons of nuTrek, I think it's the last best hope for quality trek to co-opt a phrase from the intro of another show. Obviously, that's just an opinion and others are free to enjoy what they want regardless.

I find it interesting that Anson Mount's intro to the announcement specifically points out that this will be a return to a hopeful vision of the future instead of more of the DystopuTrek that we've gotten so far.

well, trek's been trying to eistablish itself as differant things for differant people and I think they've finally realized "ya know we're missing a tradtional trek show"

**Compel**

Even then, I don't think Arrowverse is that hard.

Episode 8 of the season is the crossover episode. Pretty much always.

Do you care about the other shows? If yes, watch up to the end of the relevant seasons episode 7.

If not, just hop over to whatever Part 1 of the crossover is (if you have the dvd sets, you don't even need to do that, at least up to Crisis on Infinite Earths, every crossover is on every season dvd/bluray)

**H.B.M.C.**

Discovery jetted off 10k years in the future, didn't they? I wouldn't worry too much about any immanent crossovers.

I think Pike was one of the best things about Disco's second season, and I didn't think we got enough Number 1. Doing a whole show about them and the Enterprise before Kirk shows up seems natural to me. Plus it's weirdly closer to Roddenberry's original plan, when you think about it.

**AduroT**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Discovery jetted off 10k years in the future, didn't they? I wouldn't worry too much about any immanent crossovers.

I think Pike was one of the best things about Disco's second season, and I didn't think we got enough Number 1. Doing a whole show about them and the Enterprise before Kirk shows up seems natural to me. Plus it's weirdly closer to Roddenberry's original plan, when you think about it.

Pike’s crew was definitely the best part of that season.

**beast_gts**

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Wasn't there also going to be another Trek called "Lower Decks" that was supposed to be more comedic?

With 'Strange New Worlds' there's 4 upcoming Trek shows - Section 31 (Mirror Georgiou), Lower Decks (animated) & another animated one.

**BrianDavion**

I'd not be suprised if the section 31 show ended up getting axed TBH. it really seems to be "the spin off nobody asked for!"

**Overread**

Part of the power of something like Section 31 in the series is that its basically unknown so its spawns its own interest. Focusing on it could well destroy that "mystery" element. Also I'd argue that Second 31 would have worked back when DS9 was fresh.

Right now its been so long since Section 31 did anything that its almost something only die-hard fans would remember. It's really not been around or relevant since DS9. That's a long time to leave a minor sub-plot before touching it again.

I'd say a series like that would work better IF Section 31 started reappearing in a few places here and there to build up toward it.

**beast_gts**

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd not be suprised if the section 31 show ended up getting axed TBH. it really seems to be "the spin off nobody asked for!"

Yeah. It was due to start filming this month but I'm guessing it'll be delayed by the virus.

**Compel**

Overread wrote:
Part of the power of something like Section 31 in the series is that its basically unknown so its spawns its own interest. Focusing on it could well destroy that "mystery" element. Also I'd argue that Second 31 would have worked back when DS9 was fresh.

Right now its been so long since Section 31 did anything that its almost something only die-hard fans would remember. It's really not been around or relevant since DS9. That's a long time to leave a minor sub-plot before touching it again.

I'd say a series like that would work better IF Section 31 started reappearing in a few places here and there to build up toward it.

They were literally the badguys for the whole second season of Discovery... Which, considering the lead character, is where it's probably going to pick up after.

**Bran Dawri**

And its predecessor was a plot point in Enterprise, as well IIRC.

**insaniak**

Just got to the end. That was cheery.

Have to say, the fleet face-off would have looked much less silly with fewer ships on both sides.

**KamikazeCanuck**

insaniak wrote:
Just got to the end. That was cheery.

Have to say, the fleet face-off would have looked much less silly with fewer ships on both sides.

Ya, it was almost comedic. Like they're there to destroy a glorified resort town. Pretty sure one Warbird will do...