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2023/02/21 18:48:19
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Is the Neo-Constitution Titan-A we see a refit of Riker's original Luna-class ship, or a replacement that Riker also commanded (and was later refitted)?
2023/02/21 18:48:57
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
If it was simply a refit, then it wouldn't have the 'A' designation (otherwise we would have first seen the Enterprise A at the beginning of Star Trek: TMP and not the end of Star Trek IV). The original U.S.S. Titan was a Luna-class starship (at least in the novels and was finally canonized in Lower Decks).
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2023/02/21 20:10:18
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
The Enterprise in TOS and the Enterprise in TMP and onwards were both a Constitution-class vessel, with the latter version just having a refit (or was built to the refit specs).
The USS Titan (NCC-80102-A) was a Constitution III-class vessel operated by Starfleet in the 24th and 25th centuries. It was the third Federation starship to bear the name Titan, and the second to bear the NCC-80102 registry.
The USS Titan (NCC-80102) was a Luna-class starship that served under Captain William T. Riker in 2379. (Star Trek Nemesis)
The USS Titan (NCC-80102-A) was a Constitution III-class starship launched under the command of Captain Liam Shaw. (PIC: "The Next Generation")
The Titan and Titan-A are different starships.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/21 20:29:01
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2023/02/21 20:37:20
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Ghaz wrote: The Titan and Titan-A are different starships.
So if it's a different ship, why did Shaw have to delete Riker's jazz from the computer? Did Starfleet just migrate all the data across?
Looking at the ships it must be a different ship, but the dialogue had me confused...
2023/02/21 20:43:48
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Ghaz wrote: The Titan and Titan-A are different starships.
So if it's a different ship, why did Shaw have to delete Riker's jazz from the computer? Did Starfleet just migrate all the data across?
Looking at the ships it must be a different ship, but the dialogue had me confused...
Before its launch, Captain William T. Riker lent his expertise during the Titan's refit.
Apparently Riker liked to listen to jazz while he worked...
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2023/02/23 11:26:42
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Good afternoon gentlemen. At least I believe it’s afternoon in the Sol system.
I’m sorry, what? I get the point she’s trying to make with making references to their home and personal details, but that just doesn’t work on many levels. Like, which planet in the Sol system? One would assume Earth, but then which spot on Earth? I mean it’s always afternoon somewhere I guess.
2023/02/23 12:40:26
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Where I am sat sitting, I can see Greenwich. Which means I’m probably the Dakkanaut closest to where Britain, and therefore the world, as is tradition, first agreed time should be measured from.
And it is indeed afternoon. Just. 12:40pm as it happens. As is tradition.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
AduroT wrote: Good afternoon gentlemen. At least I believe it’s afternoon in the Sol system.
I’m sorry, what? I get the point she’s trying to make with making references to their home and personal details, but that just doesn’t work on many levels. Like, which planet in the Sol system? One would assume Earth, but then which spot on Earth? I mean it’s always afternoon somewhere I guess.
I would wager that each world likely has a universal time as well as local time. That is one time system that acts as a single reference for ships/stations and those off-world wanting to contact and coordinate and deal with on-world setups. Her saying it along with those references to intelligence and references regarding the few key people might be her way of reinforcing her position. Of showing that she knows stuff not just about them but all the way to the Sol system, even if she's way out on the fringes. A soft way to tip her hand or bluff that she's well informed.
Also I really like the Shriek's captain. She sets a great tone and I think it will be really interesting to see where the story goes on the whole good vs bad vs neutral angle and as we get deeper into the story and setup.
I’m wondering if she’s actually the Captain. She’s definitely not the main bad guy, they have the save that for the twist. We also know of another character yet to appear from the trailers.
2023/02/25 10:32:02
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
AduroT wrote: I’m wondering if she’s actually the Captain. She’s definitely not the main bad guy, they have the save that for the twist. We also know of another character yet to appear from the trailers.
She's certainly a powerful leader and very proud and comfortable with her ship*. To much so to be pretending. I think she is in command of that ship without question. As to if she's honest about her profession that remains to be seen. It could be taken in a few ways story wise.
I also get the feeling that her way of talking and acting in the chair and the way she relates to the Sol system (good afternoon) all relates to her being very space-side. Ergo she gives the impression of someone who has spent most of her life in space and not planet side much if at all. So she thinks of planets in terms of their universal time; she isn't just in her ship, she's in her home. This isn't a 5 year mission she's on, this is her life
*
Spoiler:
Interestingly I noticed that a lot of the weapons they read out are projectile style. I wonder if a quirk to beating her ship, or at least weakening it, is going to be laying false tracers in the nebula so that she wastes all/majority of her ammo shooting at beacons and loan shuttles pretending to be the starship. It would also explain why she showed off with the ship-throwing trick. A sign that her ship and crew are used to biding their time, using the threat of power to intimidate and using other resources to minimise the amount of ammunition they have to use.
It's a neat comparison to the Romulan warship that Picard faced in the Enterprise E. That warship was more based on energy weapons with multiple warp cores and thus more than capable of lasting a very long time in a drawn out battle. It's weakness was essentially being an inexperienced ship and crew in combat. They had a lot of power, but a swift rise to power that relied on intimidation and its super weapon and politics I think left them more open to random tactics of actual battle. Meanwhile the Shriek is munitions based, but has the up side of a very experienced crew
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/25 10:55:51
It’s definitely feeling better grounded in the setting and characters than the first two seasons. Both of which I enjoyed well enough.
Here, it is feeling like Kirk and Bones in the later movies. Kind of dinosaurs, relics from their age of Starfleet. Men of action cast a wee bit adrift in more political times, when you can’t just warp in, knob an alien and blast the bad guy.
But for Picard and Riker, it’s being a bit more isolated. Where the respect they earned has turned into “yes yes Grandpa, we know how it was in your day”.
I’m not quite sure what the right term is, but Starfleet is a bit harsher. Less risk adverse. Not necessarily corrupt, but creaking and perhaps less sure of itself Post Dominion War etc.
Having recently watched Insurrection and Nemesis, they both set this up, or at least flailed in that direction. So the overall arcs do mostly fit.
The biggest drawback for me is the fall of Romulus, and Picard’s “sadly not quite successful enough” evacuation attempt clearly being a turning point, but not one they’ve properly delved into. Maybe that would’ve made a more compelling second or first season.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a complete aside, it’s never covered in the shows so far as I’m aware, but.
Borg Personal Shields. Did Starfleet ever attempt to replicate that tech?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/27 10:35:25
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I have to say I like how Riker and Picard haven't been able to just brow-beat the Titan's captain and he really does stand well against them with his counterarguments. The Titan is also an exploratory ship not one of the new warships. He's an explorer with an exploratory crew not a warship with a battle ready crew - though the security staff seem much better armed (carrying rifles not just phasers).
So yep I think we are seeing some aftershocks of the Dominion War, as well as the Robot uprising and other major events that have given the Federation of this generation pause for thought and a bit of a shift.
If anything Riker feels a bit subdued in this one. Clearly between season 1 and 3 something has shattered his confidence and position in Starfleet, himself and his family.
Picard it makes sense, all through each season he's been battling his 15-20 years out of starfleet and getting older and it all moving on. Riker on the other hand should be much more on the ball and yet he's not. Partly it seems to have slipped back to being Number One to Picard (which is understandable, it was a relationship they had for a very long time).
Also interesting point - this is the first time the series has properly delved into aliens and races and factions outside of the Federation. Season 1 had those robots, but they were so far removed it was mostly revolving around those within the Federation; Season 2 was fully within; Season 3 is the first time we are properly back out on the fringes again. Interesting to note that its also the first season to get the original score appearing once more.
Ghaz wrote: The Titan and Titan-A are different starships.
So if it's a different ship, why did Shaw have to delete Riker's jazz from the computer? Did Starfleet just migrate all the data across?
Looking at the ships it must be a different ship, but the dialogue had me confused...
Starting at the 9:13 mark...
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2023/03/03 08:08:01
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
I do like the chap that explained how the Federation were the bad guys in the dominion war. I think it is somewhere on reddit, can't access that on this computer.
2023/03/03 12:44:13
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
To be fair for a race who are super isolationist and afraid of solids, who form the majority of other races in the galaxy; the idea of the Federation could be terrifying.
The Founders are very happy when there's strife between other races because that means they are focused on fighting each other and leaving the Founders alone. They were also the dominant power in their sector of space.
Then you have the Federation - a huge unity of solid races with the prime focus on expansion of their boarders. Yes the Federation does so by peaceful means rather than military conquest, but they are very good at it. Even if they can't bring you into the Federation they will often work toward lasting peaceful boundaries and boarders and neutral zones and such. And now this huge unity of peace is pushing into a new sector of space and would likely have a very good chance of displacing the Founders as the dominant power; and shutting down their ability to bully/threaten/expand their own protective boundaries.
A massive unity of solids who act under one banner. For The Founders, who have convinced themselves that solids are evil and out to get them, this is pure horror. It's no wonder they decided to lash out and invade. The Founders means toward their own protection is conquest, control and division. They couldn't bully the Federation and they couldn't expect it to fall to in-fighting with other races in the home sector. Invasion, increasing their assets and dominance with direct force is the best protection. Of course the Founders didn't just want the wormhole; they wanted a big chunk of the sector so that the Federation and its allies would be zero threat to the Founders.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/03/03 12:46:08
Certainly wasn't expecting that species to return.
Just Tony wrote: https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/star-trek-discovery-is-coming-to-an-end/ar-AA189viE?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=228d69cd4aef4ad587da5908f9d3f491&ei=32
And nothing of value was lost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/03 13:42:36
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Much as I enjoyed Picard S1 and S2? I am wishing they’d kicked off with S3’s pace and quality.
It actually feels like Star Trek.
I agree and disagree.
Personally I think the general acceptance of the series would have been stronger from the onset if they had started with the familiar with Picard.
That said I enjoyed seasons 1 and 2 in terms of establishing a new view of the Federation and a few new characters and also a new take on Picard. A man who is many years removed from his prime as a captain and admiral. In many ways I feel like the strengths of season 3 that we are going to love are in part going to be built on those foundations that seasons 1 and 2 drove home hard. If anything my greatest disappointment with seasons 1 and 2 is the same - rather sudden endings that feel like they wanted a few more episodes to flesh out events and perhaps reign some aspects in (eg the size of the Romulan and Federation fleets in season 1 in their face-off - considering that the fleets were see there are height of the Dominion War level fleets which took a lot of time to build up too on both sides. Both in terms of building the ships, but also logistics and moving that many ships into organised fleets. )
Riker has never been my favorite character but so far he has been my favorite part of this season.
Just a guess but...
Spoiler:
At the end of the episode when Riker tells Picard to get off the bridge and that he had killed everyone on the ship it was just a show. They had just learned there was a saboteur on board and this is sort of an "if we go by the book hours will seem like days" moment.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2023/03/04 09:30:25
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Ahtman wrote: Riker has never been my favorite character but so far he has been my favorite part of this season.
Just a guess but...
Spoiler:
At the end of the episode when Riker tells Picard to get off the bridge and that he had killed everyone on the ship it was just a show. They had just learned there was a saboteur on board and this is sort of an "if we go by the book hours will seem like days" moment.
Spoiler:
That's a good call and I'd be 50/50 on that. I think a big thing is that the power dynamic between them has shifted. Riker is in command and Picard, whilst technically outranking, is still many years removed. I was actually surprised at how quickly he fired the torpedo.
Picard, whilst often shifting for diplomacy, was always a bit more gun-heavy when push came to shove and its part of his character that the latter films and series have pushed on more so. The difference here is that he's out of sync with the power of the ship, the crew and the situation. Years without command, a crew he's green too and such means that his methods have caused a failure. It doesn't mean Rikers approach would have worked either, but Picard made the call and it backfired.
So it could be them pulling a ruse or it could really be them having a huge disagreement of approach to command and attitude
