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2023/07/14 17:22:05
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
I suppose being human for a short period is just a bit less problematic than having your brain stolen, but not by much.
I like SNW but one thing that kind of sits at the back of my mind is that the Enterprise doesn't feel like a character in the way it did in TOS and NG. I'm not 100% sure how to describe it and I'm probably being a bit odd about it but it just kind of feels like it is there but not part of them. Still love the design of it.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2023/07/20 19:14:55
Subject: Re:Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Been looking forward to it. Meanwhile this weeks episode was ok. Generic plot that’s classic to Trek, knew what was going on pretty much immediately and then it was just waiting for them to figure it out.
2023/07/21 09:26:10
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
AduroT wrote: Been looking forward to it. Meanwhile this weeks episode was ok. Generic plot that’s classic to Trek, knew what was going on pretty much immediately and then it was just waiting for them to figure it out.
This weeks episode. A standard issue crap analogy by Mad Doc Grotsnik, aged 43 and a bit.
This weeks episode was like having your Mum’s best staple dish for dinner. It’s a family favourite, and you know you’re going to enjoy it (for me, Mince and Tatties. Nobody could do Mince and Tatties like Mumsie) and it’s gonna be filling. Yet, you can’t help but find yourself wishing it had been something a little more exotic.
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This week's was classic ToS / TNG from a story point of view and it was handled very well but I couldn't help feeling we had seen that same story multiple times in Trek.
"Dig in and wait for Winter"
2023/07/21 11:28:44
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
I kind of feel that’s this season so far. Now that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, Discovery didn’t follow the Trek Template particularly closely, and some folk didn’t appreciate that.
So SNW having a “look, this is to show we do understand Trek” is reassuring. And whilst not groundbreaking, the episodes haven’t been bland. It’s simple Trek fare, but done really well.
Each episode has let us get to know our central cast - something Disco didn’t really bother with. And that I feel is the secret to other Trek’s success.
It just needs a decent, recurring villain or menace to build alongside. TNG did really well with three. The Borg, Klingons and Romulans. DS9 did exceptionally well with the Maquis, Bajor, Cardassia and The Dominion.
Who should SNW adopt? I….dunno! Genuinely. But such is the problem with any prequel. Certain things can’t occur, because they happened later.
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It's absolutely the Gorn. Apart from their appearances in season 1, the whole point of building the deuterium refinery in the nebula this week was that it's close to the edge of Gorn space and Starfleet is anticipating needing the supply lines for an impending war.
We saw the admiralty discussing Gorn incursions previously.
2023/07/21 12:10:17
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
I wasn’t the biggest fan of this episode. It was fine I suppose and nice to see Uhura as the focus, but other than that it was a bit of a let down.
It was an obvious plot, admittedly an old staple, but it was obvious what was going on right from the start. A bit more effort in misdirection of the audience would have been nice.
I’m not a fan of the casting for James Kirk, I’ve thought that with each appearance and this one was no different. Also, I’m here for SNW not TOS, so if James Kirk has to be in it (he doesn’t) his part should be smaller. Give me more Pike instead.
The choice to destroy the station was baffling. Maybe I missed it, but was there any reason given for why they couldn’t shut down the station rather than destroying it? Just seems overkill.
And why are they dragging out the stuff with the new chief engineer. The whole dynamic between her and Una felt forced.
Overall, I think this is up there as my least favourite SNW episode to date. Still better than any other Star Trek in recent years though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/21 12:11:29
2023/07/21 13:21:45
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Definitely the Gorn as this series’ villain. I hope they do better with them than they have though as I’ve been rather disappointed by their depiction so far.
I definitely like that this series doesn’t have a main character the way Discovery does with Michael. God I hate Michael… You really get to know so much more of the crew on this ship.
I like their Kirk. He’s fun, and gets the smart stuff right instead of just pure action that people tend to reduce his character to now days.
As for blowing up the station, the shut down system wasn’t working. They couldn’t get it to turn off so they blew it up.
2023/07/21 13:38:46
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
As an entry in the Nerdosphere? I feel singularly ill equipped to judge this film fairly.
Having watched TOS and the follow up films? This is of course pretty different. The model work alone is leaps and bounds beyond TOS. And we of course have what was, to the best of my knowledge, the first look at Klingons as we know and love them today.
The tone is also considerably more sober and “real” than TOS.
But all of this for me is in hindsight. I wasn’t there. I don’t know how good it was. How important. I saved up all my 50p’s and got started with TNG.
Its sequels aired more frequently on TV when I was small, so again this movie will always stick out for me.
And I do kind of wish I had been there for the debut. Mostly out of interest to see what I’d have made of it at the time, without having my views and indeed preferences so heavily coloured by its descendant media.
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I like their Kirk. He’s fun, and gets the smart stuff right instead of just pure action that people tend to reduce his character to now days.
My issue with this Kirk is more with the actor than the characterisation. Paul Wesley is 40, and looks it. Shatner was 35 in TOS, and IIRC season one wasn’t his first assignment as Captain. Even if it was, he’s 5 years younger than Wesley is now and that’s supposed to be a younger Kirk (the youngest 1st Officer in the fleet!). Chris Pine was 29 in Star Trek (2009).
On top of this I don’t find the actor charismatic at all. Just horribly miscast IMHO.
2023/07/21 17:26:59
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
I actually really like Paul Wesley and I definitely don't think he looks 40. I would have guessed much closer to 30 to be honest. I'm not surprised people take issue with him though, Kirk is such a colossally large persona in the fandom that even if we cloned Shatner and had him play the character over again we'd still have fans up in arms about it. I think Paul is doing a great job and I look forward to seeing more of him.
2023/07/21 20:44:22
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
The biggest problem with Kirk is that the same actor should be playing both Sam and James, just that Sam has a mustache.
I recall at the time that most people thought of TMP as visually nice as the fx were high end, but that the plot was cumbersome and plodding; good ideas but the execution was numbing. Time and a directors cut have helped it a bit but still a bit of a chore to sit through.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2023/07/22 11:51:09
Subject: Star Trek: general discussion-Picard, Discovery, Lower Decks (and Orville)
Yeah I’d say that accurate. An ambitious bit of film making, not least resurrecting Trek. But plodding. So plodding.
The plot itself is overall pretty interesting. But it’s a bit indulgent with its SFX. I mean, it’s 40 minutes before The Enterprise is away on its mission. And a good chunk of that are extended “look how pretty this model is”. And we get far too many “the crew look in awe” shots.
But for all that? It is pretty enjoyable.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Yeah I’d say that accurate. An ambitious bit of film making, not least resurrecting Trek. But plodding. So plodding.
The plot itself is overall pretty interesting. But it’s a bit indulgent with its SFX. I mean, it’s 40 minutes before The Enterprise is away on its mission. And a good chunk of that are extended “look how pretty this model is”. And we get far too many “the crew look in awe” shots.
But for all that? It is pretty enjoyable.
How dare you, sir. How can you badmouth one of the most visually stunning bits of Trek ship porn in the history of the franchise, second only to the Enterprise rising from the ocean on Nibiru? The extended flight around the Enterprise gets played by me daily...
Ahtman wrote: The biggest problem with Kirk is that the same actor should be playing both Sam and James, just that Sam has a mustache.
I recall at the time that most people thought of TMP as visually nice as the fx were high end, but that the plot was cumbersome and plodding; good ideas but the execution was numbing. Time and a directors cut have helped it a bit but still a bit of a chore to sit through.
There were big parts of the movie that were just the FX team fellating themselves.
The FX were impressively done, so unsurprisingly where all the real effort went is what people appreciate about the movie. Even if you accounted for the plot being cumbersome nad plodding, it was also just plain boring.
TMP was a mediocre episode of TOS stretched out to the length of a movie with a budget that enabled the visuals to go wild. And it was a very pretty movie. It's honestly still pretty good. Ancient by the standards of film but the FX are on par, or outright better, than what you'll see in corny C movies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/22 12:54:32
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Yeah I’d say that accurate. An ambitious bit of film making, not least resurrecting Trek. But plodding. So plodding.
The plot itself is overall pretty interesting. But it’s a bit indulgent with its SFX. I mean, it’s 40 minutes before The Enterprise is away on its mission. And a good chunk of that are extended “look how pretty this model is”. And we get far too many “the crew look in awe” shots.
But for all that? It is pretty enjoyable.
How dare you, sir. How can you badmouth one of the most visually stunning bits of Trek ship porn in the history of the franchise, second only to the Enterprise rising from the ocean on Nibiru? The extended flight around the Enterprise gets played by me daily...
Thinking about it? That was probably the first time any Trekkie got a proper full tour of the Enterprise, which is certainly something we should keep in mind.
An indulgence sure, but a deserved one on balance.
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