Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Hello everyone. I saw a video about the Bundeswehr routine where they sang some military songs while they dismantled and cleaned their rifles, and I thought about how the Imperial guard has some traditions with their war machines like bowing to a manticore before and after the battle or knocking on the hull of a hydra to "awaken the machine spirit"
But does the machine spirit like music ? I am not really in touch with the new Admech codex fluff. Is it referenced somewhere that some machines need to be sang to, to calm down ?
General Orange wrote: Hello everyone. I saw a video about the Bundeswehr routine where they sang some military songs while they dismantled and cleaned their rifles, and I thought about how the Imperial guard has some traditions with their war machines like bowing to a manticore before and after the battle or knocking on the hull of a hydra to "awaken the machine spirit"
But does the machine spirit like music ? I am not really in touch with the new Admech codex fluff. Is it referenced somewhere that some machines need to be sang to, to calm down ?
There are references to Imperial Guard singing as they work, often songs of their homeworld or 'rising imperial anthems'
It's not clear how much 'spirit' is in the average lasrifle. Everything is assumed to have a machine spirit, but I suspect the more mundane equipment doesn't have the microphone pickups to hear sound or care.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
I thought the machine spirit was just the weapon working and because it has been so long since anyone was an actual engineer they presume it only works through magic.
lolman1c wrote: I thought the machine spirit was just the weapon working and because it has been so long since anyone was an actual engineer they presume it only works through magic.
Both. All machines with AI are referred to as 'Machine Spirits'. Over time the orginal programming has become fuzzy and complicated enough it's a fair description - imagine someone taking windows 10 and filtering a few thousands prayers into the source code (and not as code comments). But then the techpriests started taking things further and referring to machine spirits being present in everything. I even found a reference to machine spirits in a grenade - which I'm pretty certain isn't anything more than a belief. Space Marines seem to take this at face value because maybe your bolter isn't listening, but hey why take a chance?
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
The lore has always been a big vague and contradictory on machine spirits, so presenting anything as absolute canon is difficult. I don't think we can say with certainty that it's an AI, though it might be. We know there's SOMETHING there, as there are numerous records of machines spontaneously doing complicated things without input, perhaps most famously the unmanned Crimson Fists Land Raider than single handedly held an Ork army at bay!
There are a few possibilities:
1.
They are AIs. The Imperium bans AI due to the Men of Iron who almost brought the old empire of men to its knees. They were robots who went rogue and rebelled against their masters, basically cylons. However, due to the shaky nature of the 40k understanding of tech it is entirely possible that Machine Spirits are in fact AI, and either this is unknown and forgotten or intentionally ignored because the Imperium is actually a lot more pragmatic than it appears on the surface when it comes to things that massively benefit the Imperium. For instance, mutants are heresy, except for Navigators because they are super useful.
2.
The Emperor's will. The Emperor was (and still is) an extremely powerful psychic being. The full extent of his ability is left vague intentially, though we get some insight in Master of Mankind as to just how removed from humanity he truly is. At the extreme end he could be as or more powerful a warp entity as a chaos god.
The official line of the Imperium is that even in death the Emperor's power is still strong, that his body enables the continued use of the astronomicon and holds the warp at bay in Terra preventing it from being consumed in rifts spewing daemons. So it's entirely possible the the Machine Spirit is an extension of the Emperor's psychic reach even in death.
3.
Servo skulls. The admech use them for everything you'd normally want an AI for. Basically the brain of a vat grown servitor or a convict is hooked up to a machine to allow it to process things a machine normally couldn't. An old cross section of a Land Raiders showed a servo skull in it, so that could very well constitute the Land Raider Machine Spirit, whereas other Machine Spirits in smaller tech could just be superstition.
4.
The void dragon. The lore suggests a powerful C'Tan was captured by the Emperor and sealed in mars. This being supposedly had vast control over mechanical constructs, and it is plausible that it is the source of the Machine Spirit. It has even been suggested that the Void Dragon may be the same being as the Omnissiah that the admech worship.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I realise all that only tangentially deals with the OP's question! To more directly deal with it - because we don't know what the machine spirit actually is, we don't know what effect music might have.
I'd say it would be totally fitting with Imperial dogma to have a Guard regiment who BELIEVE music influences the machine spirit though, so if it's lore you want to incorporate for your army I say go for it!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/26 15:26:40
Music can be broken down into mathematical formula, so I imagine the mechanicum would have hymns and music that they would deem to have a 'pleasing, mathematical symmetry'.
I assume vaporwave is a favourite.
Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today?
I seem to recall a blurb of an Admech connecting to a war machine to run diagnostics to find that it was, in essence, singing.
Also, can’t discount scenes like the Sherman tanks with loudspeakers playing the 1812 overture in Kelly’s heroes or the helicopters blasting Ride of the Valkeries in Apocalypse Now. In 40K, would that be for the troops benefit or an Admech hymnal to awaken the machine’s spirit and entice it to fight?
Stux wrote: The lore has always been a big vague and contradictory on machine spirits, so presenting anything as absolute canon is difficult. I don't think we can say with certainty that it's an AI, though it might be. We know there's SOMETHING there, as there are numerous records of machines spontaneously doing complicated things without input, perhaps most famously the unmanned Crimson Fists Land Raider than single handedly held an Ork army at bay!
There are a few possibilities:
1.
They are AIs. The Imperium bans AI due to the Men of Iron who almost brought the old empire of men to its knees. They were robots who went rogue and rebelled against their masters, basically cylons. However, due to the shaky nature of the 40k understanding of tech it is entirely possible that Machine Spirits are in fact AI, and either this is unknown and forgotten or intentionally ignored because the Imperium is actually a lot more pragmatic than it appears on the surface when it comes to things that massively benefit the Imperium. For instance, mutants are heresy, except for Navigators because they are super useful.
2.
The Emperor's will. The Emperor was (and still is) an extremely powerful psychic being. The full extent of his ability is left vague intentially, though we get some insight in Master of Mankind as to just how removed from humanity he truly is. At the extreme end he could be as or more powerful a warp entity as a chaos god.
The official line of the Imperium is that even in death the Emperor's power is still strong, that his body enables the continued use of the astronomicon and holds the warp at bay in Terra preventing it from being consumed in rifts spewing daemons. So it's entirely possible the the Machine Spirit is an extension of the Emperor's psychic reach even in death.
3.
Servo skulls. The admech use them for everything you'd normally want an AI for. Basically the brain of a vat grown servitor or a convict is hooked up to a machine to allow it to process things a machine normally couldn't. An old cross section of a Land Raiders showed a servo skull in it, so that could very well constitute the Land Raider Machine Spirit, whereas other Machine Spirits in smaller tech could just be superstition.
4.
The void dragon. The lore suggests a powerful C'Tan was captured by the Emperor and sealed in mars. This being supposedly had vast control over mechanical constructs, and it is plausible that it is the source of the Machine Spirit. It has even been suggested that the Void Dragon may be the same being as the Omnissiah that the admech worship.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I realise all that only tangentially deals with the OP's question! To more directly deal with it - because we don't know what the machine spirit actually is, we don't know what effect music might have.
I'd say it would be totally fitting with Imperial dogma to have a Guard regiment who BELIEVE music influences the machine spirit though, so if it's lore you want to incorporate for your army I say go for it!
My head cannon has always been that it's the same AI from the Men of Iron but it isn't tainted by chaos apart from the machines that chaos control. It's wireless!
Well I run Metallica and they seem to roll a lot better whene'er Metallica is playing. Combine that with the fact their strategem is called "auditory assault" and I'd say it's a safe bet that at least some machine spirits like music
Plus the mechanicus actually use a ton of prayers and chants. I doubt they'd be using chants if they didn't feel the machine spirits like that. You can see other hints of this too in other strategem names, like Divine Chorus.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2018/07/26 22:56:41
Subject: Re:Is music liked by the machine spirit ?
Damn, someone beat me to the punch on the Kelly's Heroes thing, but that gets my creative gears turning. I should make a Leman Russ with a commander that looks like Oddball and a gunner that is wearing a fez...
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
My CSM seem to like the song "Spirit in the Sky" of course that could just be from my desire to make a movie where that is playing for someone on a killing spree.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Well I run Metallica and they seem to roll a lot better whene'er Metallica is playing. Combine that with the fact their strategem is called "auditory assault" and I'd say it's a safe bet that at least some machine spirits like music
Plus the mechanicus actually use a ton of prayers and chants. I doubt they'd be using chants if they didn't feel the machine spirits like that. You can see other hints of this too in other strategem names, like Divine Chorus.
Same here, a little metal up their ass make them wanna kill 'Em all. Providing the heretic with and justice for all.
Same here, a little metal up their ass make them wanna kill 'Em all.
You are using your headphones wrong.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
If machine spirits are AI then the ad mech in general aren't aware of this as AI now stands for abominable intelligence and if I remember right counts as tech heresy.
n0t_u wrote: If machine spirits are AI then the ad mech in general aren't aware of this as AI now stands for abominable intelligence and if I remember right counts as tech heresy.
I believe they are supposed to be weak AIs rather than strong AIs.
n0t_u wrote: If machine spirits are AI then the ad mech in general aren't aware of this as AI now stands for abominable intelligence and if I remember right counts as tech heresy.
To AdMech there is AI (can think, up to animal like intelligence) and AI (Can self-determine, human-level intelligence). The latter is what the men of iron were and what lead them to rebel (and a small set to fall to chaos).
Tau Drones are self-determining and show all the traits of that heresy - they have personalities, can learn outside their purpose, can get bored, and can fall to chaos. A machine spirit can fall to scrapcode, but it can't choose to fall to chaos like humans.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
Thought the Bannana splits song for 
