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2018/07/30 22:40:26
Subject: Re:Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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p5freak wrote:Which rule says you can only have one captain with TH and SS and JP ?
Probably because you can only take 1 no overwatch relic, so the other one has somewhat limited effectiveness. Comparatively speaking, anyway.
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2018/07/31 00:31:36
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Many lists run multiple smash captains. Mostly because you need 2 HQ's anyway for the battalion with scouts.
multiple captains lose combat effectiveness since so much of what they do relies on stratagems but they also tend to die after swinging once (because they are so dangerous and focused off the board) so bringing multiples to do it for several turns is perfectly reasonable.
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2018/07/31 01:19:36
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
TX, US
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Slamguinius refers to the Smash Captain with the Angels Wings Relic and one of two Warlord traits giving him buffs, in addition to added Stratagems when in melee.
The “regular” BA Captains are the Smash Captains
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2018/07/31 01:22:18
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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I've quit fielding the 4 damage hammer. It's never worth it to give up slay warlord so easily. More worthwhile to get some IG dummy and make him grand strategist.
It really makes me sad that BA are only used for throw away dum dums with a hammer.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/31 01:22:51
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2018/07/31 05:22:56
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
McCragge
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You can take another Captain with a thammer that hits on 2+... on average it inflicts more unsaved wounds but he is exposed to overwatch... pro tip deep strike him out of enemy LoS then use the strat to roll 3d6 Charge... more effective if you can pull it off.
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Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. |
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2018/07/31 17:08:31
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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If you don't have a BA warlord, that costs you 3 CP, though.
I'm actually finding that a libby dread is a better companion for the relic captain than another captain.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/31 17:25:25
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2018/07/31 18:21:07
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Martel732 wrote:30 guardsmen actually require most of the attention from a marine army to remove. Pretty good for 120 pts.
I didn't realize a 6 man squad of aggressors was most of a space marine army. In my area at least, the space marine players are pretty clever. They're either infiltrating in Raven Guard Aggressors, which are hilariously good against a 30 man guard screen, or they're going mono blood angels with scouts and scout bikers wielding stormbolters, shotguns, whatever they can get to add shots. It absolutely works and it is not "most of his army". I've seen our mono blood angel routinely drop 40-60 guardsmen turn 1 with just shooting from that method, liquidating any screen I have and ensuring his smash captain makes it to his target. With Death Company back up we've seen games where upwards of 90 guardsmen died turn 1. If I brought 30 guardsmen and told him that it'd take most of his army to deal with them I think he would actually be insulted. 30 guardsmen is a joke of a screen and if you can't punch through that then you have much bigger problems with your list design. I hate saying "git gud"... but if a list has to dedicate most of its fire to kill 30 guardsmen then I think it's safe to say the list is laughably bad. Being points efficient does not equal invincible, and they are definitely not so efficient that it's taking over a 1000pts of shooting to knock out 120pts of guardsmen. Especially since odds are good you don't even need to knock out all 30, just enough to fit a 32mm model into base to base with the target, which isn't hard with a jump pack and 3d6 charge. Which again, is why smash captain is so good. If you were trying to get in a 15 man squad of death company, I can understand being more concerned about screens. But screens are a joke for a blood angel player that knows what he's doing what with all the combination abilities he can use to get in your face turn 1 with things like that pre game move, wings of fire, etc. etc. If a pure blood angels list can pull it off (and I've seen him do it countless times) I'd think ruthlessly optimized tournament lists can handle a 30 guardsmen screen no problem. The only true utility 30 guardsmen have when it comes to screening is pre game screen of infiltrate style abilities and turn 1 workaround deepstrike abilities. After that you're banking on your opponent being bad, not your strategy being good.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/31 18:22:42
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell |
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2018/07/31 19:23:34
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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". I've seen our mono blood angel routinely drop 40-60 guardsmen turn 1 with just shooting from that method"
That's really hard to believe. Even killing 40 in one turn is 135 bolter shots. That's with no cover, and no cover strat.
No one in my meta uses aggressors because they are trash vs most lists. RG ones have a niche if they get to go first. Hooray. Still trash for their cost.
Yeah, I gave up on DC the day the FAQ dropped. Which sucks, because I have like 20 painted.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/31 19:26:39
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2018/08/05 08:27:42
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Been Around the Block
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Martel732 wrote:". I've seen our mono blood angel routinely drop 40-60 guardsmen turn 1 with just shooting from that method"
That's really hard to believe. Even killing 40 in one turn is 135 bolter shots. That's with no cover, and no cover strat.
No one in my meta uses aggressors because they are trash vs most lists. RG ones have a niche if they get to go first. Hooray. Still trash for their cost.
Yeah, I gave up on DC the day the FAQ dropped. Which sucks, because I have like 20 painted.
You are assuming you have to kill every guardsman. Due to how morale works, you only have to kill about 6 from each squad. That is a total of 18 guardsmen. Then, morale destroys another 4 or so. A 'screen' of one guy is nothing. There comes a point where you can safely ignore certain units, regardless of army. Tanks? Get them to the last bracket. Guards/cultists? Make them vanish with morale. Space marines? Target the smaller number of heavy weapons, and then weather the bolter shots whenever possible.
I think you math-hammer too much. I've seen insanely bad lists do hilarious things to people who brought 'the right stuff.' Being kitted for meta is not the same as being good at 40k.
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ChargerIIC wrote:
A bolter fires and a Necron succumbs. His corpse rises up as a poxwalker much to the horror of his comrades. Then, to everyone's surprise his corpse rises again as a fully functionality necron. The necron and the poxwalker stare at each other, both wondering which of them is the clone. |
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2018/08/05 22:48:20
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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You really need to kill 7, but if you need to be sure, you need to kill all 10 because of insane bravery and ig having limitless cp.
Screens of one guy work fine vs deepstrike.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/05 22:49:30
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2018/08/06 02:19:52
Subject: Re:Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Dakka Veteran
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p5freak wrote:Which rule says you can only have one captain with TH and SS and JP ?
The captain gets a lot of his power from warlord traits and relics, and you can only have one of each in an army. Also, the captain is very dependent on stratagems, and you can only use those once per turn. It is possible to take two captains, but the second one will be much less effective.
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Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill |
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2018/08/06 05:31:43
Subject: Re:Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Saber wrote: p5freak wrote:Which rule says you can only have one captain with TH and SS and JP ?
The captain gets a lot of his power from warlord traits and relics, and you can only have one of each in an army. Also, the captain is very dependent on stratagems, and you can only use those once per turn. It is possible to take two captains, but the second one will be much less effective.
No, no and no. One captain will get the hammer of baal, hitting on 2+, the second will get angels wings avoiding overwatch, the third is a regular captain with JP, SS, TH. He is the warlord with artisan of war. You can buy up to two additional relics with a stratagem. All three captains can get death visions of sanguinius, because that stratagem is used when you make your army list, not limited by the matched play rule each stratagem only once per phase. In the game the hammer captain gets the 3D6 charge, the angels wings captain can re-roll failed charges, and the warlord captain gets to re-roll one dice on the charge with the re-roll stratagem. Any one captain who makes the charge gets D3 additional attacks from red rampage.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/06 05:32:51
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2018/08/06 13:09:30
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Truly an amazing alpha, but there it goes your warlord trait, slay the warlord, your free relic, 2 battalions worth of CP and 3 HQs.
Those captains are a no issue, unlimited CPs is. Fix it and you fix both problems.
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2018/08/06 13:24:55
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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MrMoustaffa wrote:
I didn't realize a 6 man squad of aggressors was most of a space marine army.
So you need 222 pts invested in killing a 120 pts worth units. Sounds pretty inefficient to me.
What do the aggressors do after they've killed the 30 guardmen? Footslog to the next enemy? Buy a repulsor?
The point Martel is making that bringing anti horde option in the game currently stands is an unreasonably involved endevour, which is precisely what makes horde armies so strong.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/06 13:29:19
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2018/08/06 13:38:52
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The second part of your post may be worth discussing, but taking out 120 points of units with 222 is incredibly good.
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2018/08/06 15:28:42
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Agressors are terrible in practice. They will zero kabalites before dying like chumps. Automatically Appended Next Post: p5freak wrote: Saber wrote: p5freak wrote:Which rule says you can only have one captain with TH and SS and JP ?
The captain gets a lot of his power from warlord traits and relics, and you can only have one of each in an army. Also, the captain is very dependent on stratagems, and you can only use those once per turn. It is possible to take two captains, but the second one will be much less effective.
No, no and no. One captain will get the hammer of baal, hitting on 2+, the second will get angels wings avoiding overwatch, the third is a regular captain with JP, SS, TH. He is the warlord with artisan of war. You can buy up to two additional relics with a stratagem. All three captains can get death visions of sanguinius, because that stratagem is used when you make your army list, not limited by the matched play rule each stratagem only once per phase. In the game the hammer captain gets the 3D6 charge, the angels wings captain can re-roll failed charges, and the warlord captain gets to re-roll one dice on the charge with the re-roll stratagem. Any one captain who makes the charge gets D3 additional attacks from red rampage.
This is not as effective as it sounds. I think capt/mephy/libby dread is a better team.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/06 15:29:46
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2018/08/06 15:56:13
Subject: Re:Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Dakka Veteran
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p5freak wrote: Saber wrote: p5freak wrote:Which rule says you can only have one captain with TH and SS and JP ?
The captain gets a lot of his power from warlord traits and relics, and you can only have one of each in an army. Also, the captain is very dependent on stratagems, and you can only use those once per turn. It is possible to take two captains, but the second one will be much less effective.
No, no and no. One captain will get the hammer of baal, hitting on 2+, the second will get angels wings avoiding overwatch, the third is a regular captain with JP, SS, TH. He is the warlord with artisan of war. You can buy up to two additional relics with a stratagem. All three captains can get death visions of sanguinius, because that stratagem is used when you make your army list, not limited by the matched play rule each stratagem only once per phase. In the game the hammer captain gets the 3D6 charge, the angels wings captain can re-roll failed charges, and the warlord captain gets to re-roll one dice on the charge with the re-roll stratagem. Any one captain who makes the charge gets D3 additional attacks from red rampage.
I'll defer to experience on this one, but that seems like a less effective version of three Custodes captains on jetbikes. Or, as Martel suggests, other Blood Angels-specific combinations.
Do you find that there are enough of the right sort of targets to give each captain something worthwhile to kill? Do they survive long enough to get their points back? In my experience playing against them the 3d6-charge and "deep strike again" stratagems are crucial for the captain's effectiveness, so only being able to buff one captain a turn may leave the others fighting chaff.
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Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill |
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2018/08/06 16:41:49
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Realize that capt/mephy/libby dread gives you 3 denies, 2 smites, and access to quickening on top of the stratagem. Oh, and Mephy has 2+ armor and 5+ FNP so soak up token fire much better than slam capt. I frequently take heat off the other two characters by giving the dread the CP regen relic.
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2018/08/06 20:00:52
Subject: Re:Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Saber wrote:
I'll defer to experience on this one, but that seems like a less effective version of three Custodes captains on jetbikes. Or, as Martel suggests, other Blood Angels-specific combinations.
Do you find that there are enough of the right sort of targets to give each captain something worthwhile to kill? Do they survive long enough to get their points back? In my experience playing against them the 3d6-charge and "deep strike again" stratagems are crucial for the captain's effectiveness, so only being able to buff one captain a turn may leave the others fighting chaff.
This is not putting all eggs in one basket. One captain with all goodies can still completely fail. Its almost impossible that all three captains will fail. Chances are good that two of them make it to their target(s).
Are we talking about BA captains, or combinations of the best BA units ? I think this thread is about the BA captain(s).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/06 20:02:11
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2018/08/06 20:16:35
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Counter charge with biker captain. Maybe kill him. will probably survive. Then kill him with chaf fire in your turn.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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2018/08/10 05:31:23
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Xenomancers wrote:Counter charge with biker captain. Maybe kill him. will probably survive. Then kill him with chaf fire in your turn.
This doesnt work, you wont kill him with the biker captain, so he is still putting a horrendous smackdown on whatever he charged. That means all you are effectively doing is making it easier to kill him next turn, which isnt really necessary when he is so easy to kill
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Owz it work.
Coz I sez it doz, dats why |
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2018/08/16 20:49:56
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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I am unable to find any unit called "Slamguinius" in either Index: Imperium 1 or Codex: Blood Angels.
Could someone explain who or what Slamguinius is?
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INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
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2018/08/16 20:53:31
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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Ba cpt with thunder hammer and relic angel wing
Strategemed to maximum it can output a lot of attacks
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2018/08/16 21:28:03
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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U02dah4 wrote:Ba cpt with thunder hammer and relic angel wing
Strategemed to maximum it can output a lot of attacks
Often with the Warlord Trait that boosts the damage output of the TH to 4 and the "Death Visions of Sanguinius" stratagem to give a +1A.
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I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. |
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2018/08/16 21:30:08
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Karhedron wrote:U02dah4 wrote:Ba cpt with thunder hammer and relic angel wing
Strategemed to maximum it can output a lot of attacks
Often with the Warlord Trait that boosts the damage output of the TH to 4 and the "Death Visions of Sanguinius" stratagem to give a +1A.
The warlord trait is now super rare. That is going on the IG spanker in the back for CP regen.
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2018/08/16 21:56:03
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Martel732 wrote: Karhedron wrote:U02dah4 wrote:Ba cpt with thunder hammer and relic angel wing
Strategemed to maximum it can output a lot of attacks
Often with the Warlord Trait that boosts the damage output of the TH to 4 and the "Death Visions of Sanguinius" stratagem to give a +1A.
The warlord trait is now super rare. That is going on the IG spanker in the back for CP regen.
they really need to fix the IG CP regen. I can't understand what they where thinking giving guard of all armies a CP regen trait. I could see it with say.. Custodes or another "hyper elite" army but Guard?
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2018/08/16 21:58:04
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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8th ed is solid, but there are still too many mistakes that should not have made it past cursory playtest. Or even thought experiments.
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2018/08/17 01:26:53
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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You say a Custodes Captain won't kill a BA Captain.
But they have 5 attacks, hitting on a 2+ rerolling, wounding on a 3+ rerolling, at AP-3 and d3 damage.
That's...
175/36 hits
350/81 wounds
175/81 go through
Back up to 350/81 or about 4.32 damage. Add a CP to reroll a damage die, and you can probably kill one.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2018/08/17 04:46:38
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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JNAProductions wrote:You say a Custodes Captain won't kill a BA Captain.
But they have 5 attacks, hitting on a 2+ rerolling, wounding on a 3+ rerolling, at AP-3 and d3 damage.
That's...
175/36 hits
350/81 wounds
175/81 go through
Back up to 350/81 or about 4.32 damage. Add a CP to reroll a damage die, and you can probably kill one.
Don't forget the 12 hurricane bolter shots on the way in.
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Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. |
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2018/08/17 05:11:20
Subject: Best way to deal with Slamguinius
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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greyknight12 wrote: JNAProductions wrote:You say a Custodes Captain won't kill a BA Captain.
But they have 5 attacks, hitting on a 2+ rerolling, wounding on a 3+ rerolling, at AP-3 and d3 damage.
That's...
175/36 hits
350/81 wounds
175/81 go through
Back up to 350/81 or about 4.32 damage. Add a CP to reroll a damage die, and you can probably kill one.
Don't forget the 12 hurricane bolter shots on the way in.
I actually forgot to factor in the Storm Shield. I only used Iron Halo save.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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