Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Transport rules say the unit can't be affected in any way. Is a unit still affected by it's own abilities?

https://m.vk.com/photo6941332_456241207?list=mail222493

They benefit from their own special rules because the rules are on their datasheet.

But don't their special rules 'affect' them?

They’re not being ‘affected’. It’s a thing they can do.

Is it specified anywhere in the book?

 koooaei wrote:
Is it specified anywhere in the book?

While you are correct that it doesn't specify that anywhere in the book, if we say that a unit isn't affected by its own rules while in a transport, then an embarked unit in a transport can't shoot, or even disembark, because it no longer exists. I think the rules make it sufficiently clear that the unit is embarked in the transport, and the unit has an ability that allows it to reroll failed hit rolls against vehicles, so it does this even when shooting from the embarked vehicle (with a rule of the vehicle that allows said unit to shoot).

Transport rules say that a unit's abilities that affect another unit, have no effect. If the transport unit allows an embarked unit to shoot, then it should shoot using all the normal rules associated with it (unless stated otherwise).

 Yarium wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Is it specified anywhere in the book?

While you are correct that it doesn't specify that anywhere in the book, if we say that a unit isn't affected by its own rules while in a transport, then an embarked unit in a transport can't shoot, or even disembark, because it no longer exists. I think the rules make it sufficiently clear that the unit is embarked in the transport, and the unit has an ability that allows it to reroll failed hit rolls against vehicles, so it does this even when shooting from the embarked vehicle (with a rule of the vehicle that allows said unit to shoot).

As for disembark and opentopped, there is a specification later in the rulebook where it is described that a unit can disembark and shoot if it's ot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kcalehc wrote:
Transport rules say that a unit's abilities that affect another unit, have no effect. If the transport unit allows an embarked unit to shoot, then it should shoot using all the normal rules associated with it (unless stated otherwise).

It says that a unit can't be affected in any way AND abilities that affect another units have no effect.

 koooaei wrote:

 Yarium wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Is it specified anywhere in the book?

While you are correct that it doesn't specify that anywhere in the book, if we say that a unit isn't affected by its own rules while in a transport, then an embarked unit in a transport can't shoot, or even disembark, because it no longer exists. I think the rules make it sufficiently clear that the unit is embarked in the transport, and the unit has an ability that allows it to reroll failed hit rolls against vehicles, so it does this even when shooting from the embarked vehicle (with a rule of the vehicle that allows said unit to shoot).

As for disembark and opentopped, there is a specification later in the rulebook where it is described that a unit can disembark and shoot if it's ot.

Yes, however if we say that the unit can't be affected by its own rules, then the rule stating that the embarked unit can shoot would become meaningless, as the embarked unit would have no Ballistic Skill or Weapons. In fact, its very existence may indeed become in doubt if we say that none of its rules apply to itself while embarked, including the unit's profile. Ergo, the unit must still exist, and must still be affected by its own rules to have a gun, and must still have the rule allowing it to reroll misses against vehicles.

Not quite what the rules say on the matter.

An embarked unit cannot normally perfom any actions nor can be effected on any way; the context of the sentence is that they cannot be effected by outside sources(a tactical squad in a rhino that is in melee range of a skitarri vanguard unit would not be T3 for example).

It then specifies that abilities dependent on range to the embarked unit/models has no effect while embarked(in this case a SM Captain in a theoretical open-topped transport would not benefit from reroll 1s).

Disembarking is a part of the tramsport rules as an exeption(non-normal action) to the cannot normally perform any actions.

Open-topped and similar rules only allow what the specific ability allows or denies.

The abilities of the unit, that are not dependent on distance to any embarked models, generally still apply to any embarked unit; those abilities just have no effect unless the transport is open-topped.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Not quite what the rules say on the matter.

An embarked unit cannot normally perfom any actions nor can be effected on any way; the context of the sentence is that they cannot be effected by outside sources(a tactical squad in a rhino that is in melee range of a skitarri vanguard unit would not be T3 for example).

It then specifies that abilities dependent on range to the embarked unit/models has no effect while embarked(in this case a SM Captain in a theoretical open-topped transport would not benefit from reroll 1s).

Disembarking is a part of the tramsport rules as an exeption(non-normal action) to the cannot normally perform any actions.

Open-topped and similar rules only allow what the specific ability allows or denies.

The abilities of the unit, that are not dependent on distance to any embarked models, generally still apply to any embarked unit; those abilities just have no effect unless the transport is open-topped.

So here's a real world example for you. A SoB Canoness with a plasma pistol in a Repressor. She has the reroll 1s aura like a captain. The repressor allows embarked units to fire out. The only restriction is they count as moving. Does she get her own reroll aura?

No; because it is an aura that is dependent on relation to other models.

Exact Quote of the sentence: "Unless specifically stated, abilities that effect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked."

The ability has no effect at all while the Cannoness is embarked, not just no effect on units outside the Repressor; and I double-checked, it is not specifically stated as otherwise.

This is also stated as separate from the normal not being able to perform actions or effected by external sources(Of note: Guard Superheavies with "firing deck" or "extended Firing deck", and the Repressor, do not transfer modifiers that effect the vehicle to the passengers; so Altioc can go screw).

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
No; because it is an aura that is dependent on relation to other models.

Exact Quote of the sentence: "Unless specifically stated, abilities that effect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked."

The ability has no effect at all while the Cannoness is embarked, not just no effect on units outside the Repressor; and I double-checked, it is not specifically stated as otherwise.

This is also stated as separate from the normal not being able to perform actions or effected by external sources(Of note: Guard Superheavies with "firing deck" or "extended Firing deck", and the Repressor, do not transfer modifiers that effect the vehicle to the passengers; so Altioc can go screw).