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Let me explain it. They want to restrict wargear options to whatever you get in the box, meaning you lose out on most of the melee options for your leader. Now you just get power fist and sword...Yet theyre perfectly fine with telling us that the shotgun leader, h. Stubber and flamer are all fine for cultists even though all 3 options have been OOP for a long time now?

 vaklor4 wrote:
Let me explain it. They want to restrict wargear options to whatever you get in the box, meaning you lose out on most of the melee options for your leader. Now you just get power fist and sword...Yet theyre perfectly fine with telling us that the shotgun leader, h. Stubber and flamer are all fine for cultists even though all 3 options have been OOP for a long time now?

There seems to be a wide variety of issues involving this. Like the Scions who can't take the Grenade Launcher that's in their box.

"Darn, I got more options in the rules than I was supposed to, what are these Heavy Stubbers and Shotguns doing in here"???

the_scotsman wrote:
"Darn, I got more options in the rules than I was supposed to, what are these Heavy Stubbers and Shotguns doing in here"???

Except I didnt. The chaos marines in normal gameplay can take axes, claws, chainaxes, and mauls. Those are gone now.

 vaklor4 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
"Darn, I got more options in the rules than I was supposed to, what are these Heavy Stubbers and Shotguns doing in here"???

Except I didnt. The chaos marines in normal gameplay can take axes, claws, chainaxes, and mauls. Those are gone now.

Maybe then your argument should be something more along the lines of

"gosh, I sure am glad GW put in the rules for me to be able to use my OOP dark vengeance monopose sculpts in Kill Team....except for the Power Axe guy, the Power Maul guy, and the Lightning Claw guy I got in the exact same box..."

the_scotsman wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
"Darn, I got more options in the rules than I was supposed to, what are these Heavy Stubbers and Shotguns doing in here"???

Except I didnt. The chaos marines in normal gameplay can take axes, claws, chainaxes, and mauls. Those are gone now.

Maybe then your argument should be something more along the lines of

"gosh, I sure am glad GW put in the rules for me to be able to use my OOP dark vengeance monopose sculpts in Kill Team....except for the Power Axe guy, the Power Maul guy, and the Lightning Claw guy I got in the exact same box..."

You mean those guys who are mono-pose, not even meant to be standard marines, and offer little to no customizability?

 vaklor4 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
"Darn, I got more options in the rules than I was supposed to, what are these Heavy Stubbers and Shotguns doing in here"???

Except I didnt. The chaos marines in normal gameplay can take axes, claws, chainaxes, and mauls. Those are gone now.

Maybe then your argument should be something more along the lines of

"gosh, I sure am glad GW put in the rules for me to be able to use my OOP dark vengeance monopose sculpts in Kill Team....except for the Power Axe guy, the Power Maul guy, and the Lightning Claw guy I got in the exact same box..."

You mean those guys who are mono-pose, not even meant to be standard marines, and offer little to no customizability?

Are you talking about Intercessors now?

Stux wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
"Darn, I got more options in the rules than I was supposed to, what are these Heavy Stubbers and Shotguns doing in here"???

Except I didnt. The chaos marines in normal gameplay can take axes, claws, chainaxes, and mauls. Those are gone now.

Maybe then your argument should be something more along the lines of

"gosh, I sure am glad GW put in the rules for me to be able to use my OOP dark vengeance monopose sculpts in Kill Team....except for the Power Axe guy, the Power Maul guy, and the Lightning Claw guy I got in the exact same box..."

You mean those guys who are mono-pose, not even meant to be standard marines, and offer little to no customizability?

Are you talking about Intercessors now?

I think he might be talking about those mono-pose cultists with little to no customizability.

Surely he couldn't be thinking about kitbash-only options that only exist in the rules and not on an official GW (tm) model kit (tm)!

GW Legal, GW Marketing and the one employee left who actually likes the games they make are all opposed to each other.

the_scotsman wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
"Darn, I got more options in the rules than I was supposed to, what are these Heavy Stubbers and Shotguns doing in here"???

Except I didnt. The chaos marines in normal gameplay can take axes, claws, chainaxes, and mauls. Those are gone now.

Maybe then your argument should be something more along the lines of

"gosh, I sure am glad GW put in the rules for me to be able to use my OOP dark vengeance monopose sculpts in Kill Team....except for the Power Axe guy, the Power Maul guy, and the Lightning Claw guy I got in the exact same box..."

or perhaps " Gosh I wished there was an ounce of consistancy or common senese in the current weapon and unit options "

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW Legal, GW Marketing and the one employee left who actually likes the games they make are all opposed to each other.

Or, without assigning DAT EVIL GW intent, they probably very purposefully created a game that could be played "straight out of the box" without risk of requiring prospective players to hunt around for options that aren't there in their kit.

the_scotsman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW Legal, GW Marketing and the one employee left who actually likes the games they make are all opposed to each other.

Or, without assigning DAT EVIL GW intent, they probably very purposefully created a game that could be played "straight out of the box" without risk of requiring prospective players to hunt around for options that aren't there in their kit.

That's probably more to the point, I mean we know the kill team boxes are special cast in coloured plastic so they are probably mono pose with restricted options. If kill team is logically the way of getting people into 40k GW might assume new players don't have huge bits boxes full of options.

I mean if Necromunda is anything to go buy we can probably expect expanded weapons lists later on down the line, possibly even KT only options and expanded scenarios to allow for asynchronous games ala Kill-Teams vs brutes from the first iteration of kill team.

the_scotsman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW Legal, GW Marketing and the one employee left who actually likes the games they make are all opposed to each other.

Or, without assigning DAT EVIL GW intent, they probably very purposefully created a game that could be played "straight out of the box" without risk of requiring prospective players to hunt around for options that aren't there in their kit.

Except that totally still is an issue. You cant get the leader or special weapon cultists aside from Dark Vengence, a set which went out of print a long while ago, and requires you to pay for all the other stuff in the box, which includes entire sprues of dark angels.

 vaklor4 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW Legal, GW Marketing and the one employee left who actually likes the games they make are all opposed to each other.

Or, without assigning DAT EVIL GW intent, they probably very purposefully created a game that could be played "straight out of the box" without risk of requiring prospective players to hunt around for options that aren't there in their kit.

Except that totally still is an issue. You cant get the leader or special weapon cultists aside from Dark Vengence, a set which went out of print a long while ago, and requires you to pay for all the other stuff in the box, which includes entire sprues of dark angels.

Sure. And the Guard KT list includes...what, three options that are only available in the command squad sprue, not the infantry squad sprue?

"THE EXISTENCE OF THESE RARE EXCEPTIONS MEANS THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT THE PROBABLE INTENT OF THE GAME REFLECTED IN 99% OF THE AVAILABLE OPTIONS IS TRUE!!!!"

the_scotsman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW Legal, GW Marketing and the one employee left who actually likes the games they make are all opposed to each other.

Or, without assigning DAT EVIL GW intent, they probably very purposefully created a game that could be played "straight out of the box" without risk of requiring prospective players to hunt around for options that aren't there in their kit.

If that were the case, then guardsmen would either only be able to have flamers and grenade launchers, or they should be able to take medics, heavy flamers, and Scions should be able to have grenade launchers.

the_scotsman wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW Legal, GW Marketing and the one employee left who actually likes the games they make are all opposed to each other.

Or, without assigning DAT EVIL GW intent, they probably very purposefully created a game that could be played "straight out of the box" without risk of requiring prospective players to hunt around for options that aren't there in their kit.

Except that totally still is an issue. You cant get the leader or special weapon cultists aside from Dark Vengence, a set which went out of print a long while ago, and requires you to pay for all the other stuff in the box, which includes entire sprues of dark angels.

Sure. And the Guard KT list includes...what, three options that are only available in the command squad sprue, not the infantry squad sprue?

"THE EXISTENCE OF THESE RARE EXCEPTIONS MEANS THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT THE PROBABLE INTENT OF THE GAME REFLECTED IN 99% OF THE AVAILABLE OPTIONS IS TRUE!!!!"

Which just increases the gakkery of trying to figure out if they're trying to be new player friendly as possible, or trying to make it friendly to people who want as much personality as possible in their force. The promotional team has done a great job of wish washing back and forth on it, because it seems like the game's hit an awkward middle ground of both. There's no reason why they should absolutely only include the in-box gear for CSM, but lord forbid they leave out models that are out of print and hard to come by at this point. They clearly have no issue with OOP kits in kill team, so why baseline so many other units with the most updated stuff, and not giving options that are entirely easy to do with plastic kits?