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Hi all, I’m just looking for some clarification because the rules involving taking multiple injury rolls for a weapon confuse me. The paragraph about it suggests that you only take injury rolls from the shot that you failed the save that took your final wound from. So my question is how does this resolve considering that every shot it technically resolved separately.

An over charged plasma gun within 12” (2 shots, damage 2) targets a single wound model. The two shots hit, wound and the target fails both saves. What happens now? Does the target suffer 4 injury rolls or 2?

Also, is each injury roll resolved individually and in sequence? So the first causes a flesh wound, would the next injury roll from that same weapon gain a +1 to the roll? Or would you simply roll all damage rolls from a given weapon and apply flesh wounds all together?

2.

best way to think about it, is you slow role everything in kill team. Lets say you dakka the crap outta a single model with 4, 1 damage wounds going through, and the model has 2 wounds. Even if he failed all 4, it stops the second he takes the last wound and you role for injury based off the damage.

Same happens with mortal wounds. The idea here is that really powerful weapons, REALLY gak a guy up.

Ito answer your second question, if i understand the situation correctly your asking if a scinario played out like this:

I shoot a tac marine with a warp bolter with rapid fire. he fails both saves. You are asking if he roles the first one for injury, gets a flesh wound, then roles for the second injury counting the flesh wound? If this is the question, the answer is no.

It kill team it dose not matter how many 1 damage wounds you get through, the second it takes the last wound all other wounds dont matter any more. So if i got 50 1 damage wounds on you, and the first wound took you down to zero, the other 49 just go away and you make 1 injury roll.

Thanks for the response. Just to clarify, if my one wounded model gets hit, wounded and fails saves from two damage 2 shots, I would roll twice on the injury table and apply the highest result. Basicallly one shot hits and kills me and the other is lost.

Yes, the only one that matters is the shot that removes the last wound, the rest don't. You would then role the number of injury dice equal to the damage of the weapon

Just remember that if there are mortal wounds involved, any excess mortal wounds left over after a model dies gets carried over to the rest of the unit. Normal damage will not carry over.

 doctortom wrote:
Just remember that if there are mortal wounds involved, any excess mortal wounds left over after a model dies gets carried over to the rest of the unit. Normal damage will not carry over.

While true this is not the case for killteam.

In kill team if you get say d3 mortal wounds and you role a 3, the wound that would remove the models last wound is the only wound you use to determine damage, which with mortal wounds is one.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
Just remember that if there are mortal wounds involved, any excess mortal wounds left over after a model dies gets carried over to the rest of the unit. Normal damage will not carry over.

While true this is not the case for killteam.

In kill team if you get say d3 mortal wounds and you role a 3, the wound that would remove the models last wound is the only wound you use to determine damage, which with mortal wounds is one.

Sorry, I was thinking 40K in general, not Kill Team.

So, question then.

So, normally a sniper rifle does 1 damage. Say you shoot a tactical marine, and you wound on a 6. That shot does a mortal wound in addition to the normal damage. That marine fails their save, and the sniper weapon technically, does 2 damage...

Does the tactical marine roll 1 injury roll? Or 2?

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, question then.

So, normally a sniper rifle does 1 damage. Say you shoot a tactical marine, and you wound on a 6. That shot does a mortal wound in addition to the normal damage. That marine fails their save, and the sniper weapon technically, does 2 damage...

Does the tactical marine roll 1 injury roll? Or 2?

The injury does not care how many damage you inflict, it cares about the Damage characteristic (note the capital D here) of the weapon that inflicted it.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, question then.

So, normally a sniper rifle does 1 damage. Say you shoot a tactical marine, and you wound on a 6. That shot does a mortal wound in addition to the normal damage. That marine fails their save, and the sniper weapon technically, does 2 damage...

Does the tactical marine roll 1 injury roll? Or 2?

The injury does not care how many damage you inflict, it cares about the Damage characteristic (note the capital D here) of the weapon that inflicted it.

This, the only benefit of the mortal wound is they don't get a save, but if they failed the sniper shot, the mortal wound just goes away and they roll 1 dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This actually makes the psybolt a really weird thing in the getting because the only model that has 2 wounds that the d3 would matter on are primaris iirc

 Backspacehacker wrote:

This actually makes the psybolt a really weird thing in the getting because the only model that has 2 wounds that the d3 would matter on are primaris iirc

There are quite a few models with more than 1 wound. Ork boss nobs, T'au Stealthsuits, Skitarii Ruststalkers and Infiltators, Abberants, Tyranid Warriors and Lictors, Dire Avengers. There might be a few others too.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This actually makes the psybolt a really weird thing in the getting because the only model that has 2 wounds that the d3 would matter on are primaris iirc

It's kind of amusing with the 'Beseech the Gods' tactic that Chaos has. If failed, the model suffers D3 mortal wounds...but as far as I can see, CSM models can only get 1 wound. So even if you roll a 3 on the D3, the model still only makes a single Injury roll.

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This actually makes the psybolt a really weird thing in the getting because the only model that has 2 wounds that the d3 would matter on are primaris iirc

It's kind of amusing with the 'Beseech the Gods' tactic that Chaos has. If failed, the model suffers D3 mortal wounds...but as far as I can see, CSM models can only get 1 wound. So even if you roll a 3 on the D3, the model still only makes a single Injury roll.

actually its 3 dice take the highest like with all multi-damage weapons

BomBomHotdog wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This actually makes the psybolt a really weird thing in the getting because the only model that has 2 wounds that the d3 would matter on are primaris iirc

It's kind of amusing with the 'Beseech the Gods' tactic that Chaos has. If failed, the model suffers D3 mortal wounds...but as far as I can see, CSM models can only get 1 wound. So even if you roll a 3 on the D3, the model still only makes a single Injury roll.

actually its 3 dice take the highest like with all multi-damage weapons

Are you sure?

Mortal Wounds: "If a mortal wound reduces a model to 0 wounds, any furthermortal wounds directed against this model by this attack are not resolved..."

Damage Characteristic: "If a model loses its last wound when there are attacks or mortal wounds...still allocated to it, these are not resolved."

I can't see anything that suggests that mortal wounds are anything but Damage 1 attacks. What am I missing?

 Cheexsta wrote:

BomBomHotdog wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This actually makes the psybolt a really weird thing in the getting because the only model that has 2 wounds that the d3 would matter on are primaris iirc

It's kind of amusing with the 'Beseech the Gods' tactic that Chaos has. If failed, the model suffers D3 mortal wounds...but as far as I can see, CSM models can only get 1 wound. So even if you roll a 3 on the D3, the model still only makes a single Injury roll.

actually its 3 dice take the highest like with all multi-damage weapons

Are you sure?

Mortal Wounds: "If a mortal wound reduces a model to 0 wounds, any furthermortal wounds directed against this model by this attack are not resolved..."

Damage Characteristic: "If a model loses its last wound when there are attacks or mortal wounds...still allocated to it, these are not resolved."

I can't see anything that suggests that mortal wounds are anything but Damage 1 attacks. What am I missing?

missed that part somehow, your right

Does seem to mitigate the risk somewhat, not only is it only on a 1 that you fail, but then you still have a 50/50 chance after that to negate the damage, and THEN if you're a marine you ignore it for shooting anyway.
For bonus points, play as deathguard and you have even more chance (albeit small) to ignore the wounds before you even have to start rolling injury anyway.

They went with d3 mortals even though they have 1 wound to hedge against further expansions and rules. If they add something that lets you have a FNP save later on then it would matter. It's easier to plan for that stuff now and have less to errata later.

So in the case of let's say a Transuranic Arquebus that wounds you (d3 Damage, 1 additional mortal wound on a roll of 6) and inflicts 3 Damage and one mortal wound, you'd be best to make the trauma roll for the 3D first as you'll have more chance to kill the model than by resolving the mortal wound first.

Yeah, that's about right.
I guess the use of the mortal wound is just in case he saves the "normal" damage

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, question then.

So, normally a sniper rifle does 1 damage. Say you shoot a tactical marine, and you wound on a 6. That shot does a mortal wound in addition to the normal damage. That marine fails their save, and the sniper weapon technically, does 2 damage...

Does the tactical marine roll 1 injury roll? Or 2?

The injury does not care how many damage you inflict, it cares about the Damage characteristic (note the capital D here) of the weapon that inflicted it.

This, the only benefit of the mortal wound is they don't get a save, but if they failed the sniper shot, the mortal wound just goes away and they roll 1 dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This actually makes the psybolt a really weird thing in the getting because the only model that has 2 wounds that the d3 would matter on are primaris iirc

Primaris, Tyranid warriors, ork nobz, and stealth suits at present.

EDIT: you also have some models who might get a save against mortals like death guard and drukhari.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
2.

best way to think about it, is you slow role everything in kill team. Lets say you dakka the crap outta a single model with 4, 1 damage wounds going through, and the model has 2 wounds. Even if he failed all 4, it stops the second he takes the last wound and you role for injury based off the damage.

Same happens with mortal wounds. The idea here is that really powerful weapons, REALLY gak a guy up.

Ito answer your second question, if i understand the situation correctly your asking if a scinario played out like this:

I shoot a tac marine with a warp bolter with rapid fire. he fails both saves. You are asking if he roles the first one for injury, gets a flesh wound, then roles for the second injury counting the flesh wound? If this is the question, the answer is no.

It kill team it dose not matter how many 1 damage wounds you get through, the second it takes the last wound all other wounds dont matter any more. So if i got 50 1 damage wounds on you, and the first wound took you down to zero, the other 49 just go away and you make 1 injury roll.

Wait. I disagree. Well not with the actual wording.. because IF you actually get 0 wounds (OOA) it true.. but you assume a flesh wound is the same.

You slow roll... Good. . I'll do the same:

Hit wound for the first shot. The first shot would do 2 damage. Forcing a double injury roll. I agree with that. But if the target is not ooa it recieves a (single, not 2, only apply the highest result) flesh wound.
THEN
the target regains 1 wound.
THEN
You pick a target for the 2nd shot... A lo and behold the same bugger is still there .. With 1 wound even. So you shoot at him again and make him take (dice gods willing) another double injury roll (at +1 wven for the previous fleshwound).

No logical flaws right?

Additional evidence: page 28 fast dice rolling insert. Last line: your opponent can then make save rolls one at a time AND suffer damage EACH TIME as appropriate.

j33v3s wrote:
Does seem to mitigate the risk somewhat, not only is it only on a 1 that you fail, but then you still have a 50/50 chance after that to negate the damage, and THEN if you're a marine you ignore it for shooting anyway.
For bonus points, play as deathguard and you have even more chance (albeit small) to ignore the wounds before you even have to start rolling injury anyway.

Note with FNP saves you'd have to pass the save on all wounds caused or it still does the full damage in injury rolls (assuming it would take you to 0 wounds... but I don't think there's any FNP for multiwound models aside from the Zealot special ability). So, a DG hit by a D2 weapon reduced to 0 wounds takes two 5+++ saves, if they fail either then you still roll 2 dice on the injury chart. FNP saves are good against single damage, but lose their punch against high damage weapons.

Also, with sniper rifles... If you look at the T'au Rail Rifle, it does D3 damage and a MW on a wound roll of 6+. It will matter if you roll and inflict the regular damage or MW first... hitting a 1 wound model with 3 damage is typically better than hitting it with 1 MW (unless they're a Necron, natch). I asked this over on the discord, the consensus seemed to be you do the 'regular' damage first then the MW if they've not already been reduced to 0 wounds.

Aezeal wrote:

Wait. I disagree. Well not with the actual wording.. because IF you actually get 0 wounds (OOA) it true.. but you assume a flesh wound is the same.

You slow roll... Good. . I'll do the same:

Hit wound for the first shot. The first shot would do 2 damage. Forcing a double injury roll. I agree with that. But if the target is not ooa it recieves a (single, not 2, only apply the highest result) flesh wound.
THEN
the target regains 1 wound.
THEN
You pick a target for the 2nd shot... A lo and behold the same bugger is still there .. With 1 wound even. So you shoot at him again and make him take (dice gods willing) another double injury roll (at +1 wven for the previous fleshwound).

No logical flaws right?

Additional evidence: page 28 fast dice rolling insert. Last line: your opponent can then make save rolls one at a time AND suffer damage EACH TIME as appropriate.

4. Shooting Phase, Step 3. Resolve Attacks, point 4. Inflict Damage:
"(...) If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0, any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved, and then the player controlling the attacking model makes an Injury roll for the target model (see overleaf)."

At step 3 Resolve Attacks you have already specified how many shoots will be at this specific target (see Step 2. Choose Ranged Weapon and Targets > Number of Attacks).
If at step 2 you said 50 attacks (imaginary weapon) and at step 3. first shot will hit and reduce wounds to 0 all other 49 attacks are lost.

Text deleted had bad information.. my disgrace.

I believe whenever you are injured by a shooting attack the attacker rolls the injury dice.

I'm not *sure* what a reroll of injury dice involves, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that it's ALL dice involved in the injury roll.

Xirax wrote:

AFAIK:

Quick summary:

1. If you get killed with a single 1 wound shot, defender rolls a single injury roll and can if able use a re-roll stratagem on it.

2. If you get killed with several 1 wound shots (several gets through your armour) the attacker rolls the injury roll and can use his command points for the re-roll.

3. If you get killed with a multi-wound hit, attacker again makes the injury roll with number of dice the the killing hit's damage was and pick's the highest and can re-roll if wants to.

So, the option 1. is the only time the defender makes the injury roll and has the means to re-roll it.

Page 31, Inflict Damage: ... and then the player controlling the attacking model make and Injury roll for the target model (see overleaf).

 alextroy wrote:

Xirax wrote:

AFAIK:

Quick summary:

1. If you get killed with a single 1 wound shot, defender rolls a single injury roll and can if able use a re-roll stratagem on it.

2. If you get killed with several 1 wound shots (several gets through your armour) the attacker rolls the injury roll and can use his command points for the re-roll.

3. If you get killed with a multi-wound hit, attacker again makes the injury roll with number of dice the the killing hit's damage was and pick's the highest and can re-roll if wants to.

So, the option 1. is the only time the defender makes the injury roll and has the means to re-roll it.

Page 31, Inflict Damage: ... and then the player controlling the attacking model make and Injury roll for the target model (see overleaf).

I actually read that the way that is mean't for injury rolls with overspilled damage. Like it refers to a situation when there's multiple single damage hits coming.. but now that I read it couple of times, I see your point. That "any further attacks directed against this model by the attacking weapon are not resolved," is just stupidly placed and makes it harder to understand.

Sorry, my bad. I even think I watched some video of these rules you make wrong and this was on of those.. well, lesson learned. Don't trust the internet!!

I guess you have to houserule this multi-damage affair. It just doesn´t feel right to roll only once on the injury table, if a model suffered multiple wounds from a single shot.

 Strg Alt wrote:
I guess you have to houserule this multi-damage affair. It just doesn´t feel right to roll only once on the injury table, if a model suffered multiple wounds from a single shot.

It encourages you to spread your shots from weapons around more as there's a limit to how much damage a weapon can do to a model in a single shot. Also, pretty much anything beyond 2 dice is *very* likely to take a model out anyway, meaning multiple damage rolls for a weapon like that would be largely redundant.

 unitled wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
I guess you have to houserule this multi-damage affair. It just doesn´t feel right to roll only once on the injury table, if a model suffered multiple wounds from a single shot.

It encourages you to spread your shots from weapons around more as there's a limit to how much damage a weapon can do to a model in a single shot. Also, pretty much anything beyond 2 dice is *very* likely to take a model out anyway, meaning multiple damage rolls for a weapon like that would be largely redundant.

I beg to differ. Just from my N17 experience, a meltagun shot to the face hurts. A lot. And rightfully so. It´s way more dangerous than to be hit by a laspistol. I also read a few comments on this board that the inclusion of meltaguns should be avoided due to poor range and it´s attached modifiers to hit. This an unhealthy result due to poor rule writing. If you get shot by a meltagun then it´s usually game over for the model in question.