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 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
A lack of 2+ would be alirhg tif they at least had something with a good invul save, Maybe a Primaris with a sword, stomr shield and wrist mounted bolt gun? heck toss it in Gravis armor and I think we have a winner.

I don't think a shield is the way to go. I mean, visually it's very Imperial, but I feel like the bulk of Gravis keeps it from really working in my head.

it'd need to be large tower shield ala the breacher shields from HH

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
A lack of 2+ would be alirhg tif they at least had something with a good invul save, Maybe a Primaris with a sword, stomr shield and wrist mounted bolt gun? heck toss it in Gravis armor and I think we have a winner.

I don't think a shield is the way to go. I mean, visually it's very Imperial, but I feel like the bulk of Gravis keeps it from really working in my head.

it'd need to be large tower shield ala the breacher shields from HH

Yeah, something massive that they basically plant might do the trick. Maybe nick the Ogryn slabshields and let them form a defensive line the board?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
A lack of 2+ would be alirhg tif they at least had something with a good invul save, Maybe a Primaris with a sword, stomr shield and wrist mounted bolt gun? heck toss it in Gravis armor and I think we have a winner.

I don't think a shield is the way to go. I mean, visually it's very Imperial, but I feel like the bulk of Gravis keeps it from really working in my head.

it'd need to be large tower shield ala the breacher shields from HH

Yeah, something massive that they basically plant might do the trick. Maybe nick the Ogryn slabshields and let them form a defensive line the board?

well.. GW seems to borrow a decent amount from the HH with some of this stuff so... I'm thinking something like
except Primaris Sized with a power weapon/wrist mounted bolt weapon.

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
A lack of 2+ would be alirhg tif they at least had something with a good invul save, Maybe a Primaris with a sword, stomr shield and wrist mounted bolt gun? heck toss it in Gravis armor and I think we have a winner.

I don't think a shield is the way to go. I mean, visually it's very Imperial, but I feel like the bulk of Gravis keeps it from really working in my head.

it'd need to be large tower shield ala the breacher shields from HH

Yeah, something massive that they basically plant might do the trick. Maybe nick the Ogryn slabshields and let them form a defensive line the board?

well.. GW seems to borrow a decent amount from the HH with some of this stuff so... I'm thinking something like (image)
except Primaris Sized with a power weapon/wrist mounted bolt weapon.

So...Intercessors with the Deathwatch storm shield bits?

That could work too, but I was thinking of Cawl nicking some more stuff from the Guard and giving them a massive slab shield style thing and they use a bolt storm gauntlet on the other hand.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Count as only goes so far when competetive goes and TLoS gets involved. I recall a topic back in 5th where someone was talking about their old metal Terminators and a new player not believing they were valid models due to being smaller than the current kit. So eventually we'd see everything go full Primaris.

That said, Primaris are lacking a good melee option. Sure they can do a decent punch up (a 10 man Intercessor Squad gets 21 attacks after all), but they don't have a good unit for just tearing something apart. If Reivers got a -1 AP on their knife they'd fill that role, but for the moment I see them more as a harrassment unit that runs around with their guns and peppers back line units while Batmaning about the table.

I'm in favor of Reivers getting an alternate build with Stalker Bolt Rifles instead of Carbines.

That could be cool. Elite sneaky sniper Marines with spooky skull masks seem cool to me.

I'd swap the heads for hoods at that point, maybe even go the half-cape or poncho route for a dedicated pseudo "scout" unit rather than the Reivers.

That's the idea behind the 'alternate build'. They'd have the same stripped down armour patterning, but other gubbins would be theirs.

Capes and hoods with sniper rifles might make them feel too Pathfinder-y. but I admit it could be a cool look.

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M:24"
WS: 2
BS:2
S: 87
T: 7
W: 23.7
A: 1
LD: 15
SV: 2+ (on 2d3)

The Rampant Vision Landraider Ultimus Ultra Venerable Ancient can replace any of its Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannons with a Smoke Launcher.

Power of the Machine Spirit:. Each time you fire a Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon you make make an additional attack with another Heavy Onslaught Gatling Cannon.

Retails for $1500 in Bitcoin only.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, it can only transport Primary Marines. And only 2.5 of them. Grav Armour takes up 3 spaces. Jump pack Marines (of either variety) take up only .32 spaces...

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
A lack of 2+ would be alirhg tif they at least had something with a good invul save, Maybe a Primaris with a sword, stomr shield and wrist mounted bolt gun? heck toss it in Gravis armor and I think we have a winner.

I don't think a shield is the way to go. I mean, visually it's very Imperial, but I feel like the bulk of Gravis keeps it from really working in my head.

it'd need to be large tower shield ala the breacher shields from HH

Yeah, something massive that they basically plant might do the trick. Maybe nick the Ogryn slabshields and let them form a defensive line the board?

well.. GW seems to borrow a decent amount from the HH with some of this stuff so... I'm thinking something like (image)
except Primaris Sized with a power weapon/wrist mounted bolt weapon.

So...Intercessors with the Deathwatch storm shield bits?

No more Primaris Invictarus Suzerain though I don't think Gravis armour would work for that sort of unit.

Ice_can wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
A lack of 2+ would be alirhg tif they at least had something with a good invul save, Maybe a Primaris with a sword, stomr shield and wrist mounted bolt gun? heck toss it in Gravis armor and I think we have a winner.

I don't think a shield is the way to go. I mean, visually it's very Imperial, but I feel like the bulk of Gravis keeps it from really working in my head.

it'd need to be large tower shield ala the breacher shields from HH

Yeah, something massive that they basically plant might do the trick. Maybe nick the Ogryn slabshields and let them form a defensive line the board?

well.. GW seems to borrow a decent amount from the HH with some of this stuff so... I'm thinking something like (image)
except Primaris Sized with a power weapon/wrist mounted bolt weapon.

So...Intercessors with the Deathwatch storm shield bits?

No more Primaris Invictarus Suzerain though I don't think Gravis armour would work for that sort of unit.

I'm looking at my Gravis Captain and I think it would.

Asmodios wrote:
I think if you are looking to the future of primaris simple look at AOS sigmarines. I suspect that they will update primaris along the same lines. So once SOB drop next year we are going to get a new SM codex soon after with a lot of new primaris models. Eventually, they will have an entire range with everything you like from regular SM just in better scale

Is there a precedent for a second codex for the same faction within the same WH40K edition?

DudleyGrim wrote:
this is going to be crazy but just hear me out: Primaris CSM!

The CSM troop box needs an update, and why not upscale them to be the same size as primaris marines? Throw in an updated Chaos weapons and bits sprue and you have yourself some mighty fine CSM and Chosen models.

If you look at the death guard marines that have come out with 8th the scale has increased anyway with out being “primaris”. So no need to make chaos marines primaris ones just make a nice new kit because the old one is horrible.

I think if bile is making primaris types it should go wrong so you have a new unit similar, or exactly like in looks, the gal vorbak. Crazed warped types to replace possessed.

 Brother Castor wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I think if you are looking to the future of primaris simple look at AOS sigmarines. I suspect that they will update primaris along the same lines. So once SOB drop next year we are going to get a new SM codex soon after with a lot of new primaris models. Eventually, they will have an entire range with everything you like from regular SM just in better scale

Is there a precedent for a second codex for the same faction within the same WH40K edition?

7th did this a lot, look at CSM, DE, TAU, etc...

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I think if you are looking to the future of primaris simple look at AOS sigmarines. I suspect that they will update primaris along the same lines. So once SOB drop next year we are going to get a new SM codex soon after with a lot of new primaris models. Eventually, they will have an entire range with everything you like from regular SM just in better scale

Is there a precedent for a second codex for the same faction within the same WH40K edition?

7th did this a lot, look at CSM, DE, TAU, etc...

I don't think any of those got a new codex did they? but I know Space Wolves got the Wulfen edition of their codex when the wulfen came out, so yeah there is precident.

Not sure how I'd feel about a new SM codex. If 8th edition is going to be a 'living rule set' then I suppose it could happen, assuming the rules evolve without invalidating existing codexes.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I think if you are looking to the future of primaris simple look at AOS sigmarines. I suspect that they will update primaris along the same lines. So once SOB drop next year we are going to get a new SM codex soon after with a lot of new primaris models. Eventually, they will have an entire range with everything you like from regular SM just in better scale

Is there a precedent for a second codex for the same faction within the same WH40K edition?

7th did this a lot, look at CSM, DE, TAU, etc...

I don't think any of those got a new codex did they? but I know Space Wolves got the Wulfen edition of their codex when the wulfen came out, so yeah there is precident.

You mean a seperate codex from the 1st right? like the DE coven book and DE book?

Or you mean a redo of the codex? Well Eldar did, they were the only ones, but 6th was only 25months

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Count as only goes so far when competetive goes and TLoS gets involved. I recall a topic back in 5th where someone was talking about their old metal Terminators and a new player not believing they were valid models due to being smaller than the current kit. So eventually we'd see everything go full Primaris.

That said, Primaris are lacking a good melee option. Sure they can do a decent punch up (a 10 man Intercessor Squad gets 21 attacks after all), but they don't have a good unit for just tearing something apart. If Reivers got a -1 AP on their knife they'd fill that role, but for the moment I see them more as a harrassment unit that runs around with their guns and peppers back line units while Batmaning about the table.

I'm in favor of Reivers getting an alternate build with Stalker Bolt Rifles instead of Carbines.

That could be cool. Elite sneaky sniper Marines with spooky skull masks seem cool to me.

Agreed but GW seem to have a pathological aversion to full marines in 40k having sniper rifles.

And Stalkers for some bizarre reason are not sniper weapons.

 Crimson wrote:
And Stalkers for some bizarre reason are not sniper weapons.

glafd I'm not the only one annoyed by that. it woulda make the stalker config of inceptors AMAZING.

Primaris apparently did not sell as well as GW expected and that has slowed any further roll out. They are still coming as the work on them has been done but who knows when or if changes are being made first.

Anecdotally in my area at least normal marines still out sell Primaris by a pretty large margin.

SeanDrake wrote:
Primaris apparently did not sell as well as GW expected and that has slowed any further roll out. They are still coming as the work on them has been done but who knows when or if changes are being made first.

Did you get that info from a GW employee?

Hopefully none. Primaris Marines are cool models but their fluff is garbage and are some of the weakest additions to 40k.

I don’t get the level of primaris hate fluffwise. I know it’s not the best but it’s hardly game breaking, people were happy marines kept getting new tanks and plains and guns but new marines is a massive no no. It’s not like it just happened, it was supposed to be going on for 10000 years. That’s a long time. I think they could’ve done more about some chapters refusing them or being unhappy but that wouldn’t have made sense marketing wise as they were supposed to sell to existing marine players and you would be pretty upset if your beloved chapter couldn’t get it’s hands in new stuff. Old marines were done. They had milked every idea out of them. No more money to be made there.

As for primaris not being a success I don’t see that at all. The financials show 8th being a great success and that was launched with primaris, also anecdotally I sell painted miniatures and the primaris ones still sel, faster than any others I’ve done.

I’d settle for primaris going in normal transport and vice versa at the moment, I just want to put terminators in my repulsor.

Andykp wrote:
I don’t get the level of primaris hate fluffwise. I know it’s not the best but it’s hardly game breaking, people were happy marines kept getting new tanks and plains and guns but new marines is a massive no no. It’s not like it just happened, it was supposed to be going on for 10000 years. That’s a long time. I think they could’ve done more about some chapters refusing them or being unhappy but that wouldn’t have made sense marketing wise as they were supposed to sell to existing marine players and you would be pretty upset if your beloved chapter couldn’t get it’s hands in new stuff. Old marines were done. They had milked every idea out of them. No more money to be made there.

As for primaris not being a success I don’t see that at all. The financials show 8th being a great success and that was launched with primaris, also anecdotally I sell painted miniatures and the primaris ones still sel, faster than any others I’ve done.

I dislike it because it's lazy writing. I had actually enjoyed that they moved the story along a bit when they first did the End Times trilogy for 40k and was glad they handled it a lot better than Fantasy. My issue going forward is if anything the Imperium seems to suddenly be fundamentally written in a different manor. Primaris Marines are marines plus 1 who some how fix any flaw the various chapters had because Cawl does science better than the emperor could do. I'm a marine playing for over a decade and I just find this to the most boring and uninspired thing GW could have done.

Primaris-scale Emperor’s Champion. I’d buy one!

 Brother Castor wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I think if you are looking to the future of primaris simple look at AOS sigmarines. I suspect that they will update primaris along the same lines. So once SOB drop next year we are going to get a new SM codex soon after with a lot of new primaris models. Eventually, they will have an entire range with everything you like from regular SM just in better scale

Is there a precedent for a second codex for the same faction within the same WH40K edition?

Some folks mentioned others but they forgot that CSM got two codexes in 3rd.

Less cheekily, if the rumors of 8th being a living edition being true, we should be seeing new army lists/codexes going forward. Perhaps via campaigns (giving us story and allowing them to do a double update) or via new codexes that replace the existing ones. Or perhaps the first leading to the latter.

Either way we'll need to see what they do going forward. Maybe we'll just get a Codex: Primaris Astartes or something.

On a different note, I've been reading Dark Imperium and a couple things in there really need models/options on the table:
-Lts in Inceptor armour (which should translate to Captains in the same) as an option
-While not in the story, Lts in Gravis armour should be a thing too
-It's left vague, but it seems there may be more versions of armour that we haven't seen yet for MkX
-Lore wise it seems that there a number of Primaris who remember the old Imperium (Felix was 13 when he was taken to become a Primaris, others who aren't seen may have been older as they were able to confidently describe the way the UItramar system worked to planetary govenors, convincing them to rejoin the 500 world, something most kids wouldn't be able to do, hinting that some Marines (or at least inductees who hadn't completed the implantation process and would benefit from the enhanced memory said implants would give them as their training back then would have included more governmental affairs because Guilliman), and I feel like this should be expanded on more because I see a great dynamic as those old Imperium members are tested by what the Imperium has become (and might be what leads to some falling: they can't stand the new Imperium and what it's done to the one they used to know).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SeanDrake wrote:
Primaris apparently did not sell as well as GW expected and that has slowed any further roll out. They are still coming as the work on them has been done but who knows when or if changes are being made first.

Anecdotally in my area at least normal marines still out sell Primaris by a pretty large margin.

If true it's likely because of how limited the range was at start and how few options people had. We're slowly seeing more options added to the army, but it's not something that will be fixed overnight.

That said, I'm using them to build 4th Company Imperial Fists (lead by a Captain I'm fluffing up to be someone who remembers seeing the VIIth Legion and Dorn before he was given over to Cawl instead (I want to say he barely survived the Iron Cage (thanks to the Primaris upgrade), but I haven't nailed down if they could remake regular Marines into Primaris Marines yet (though it sounds like the studio wants to Primaris some of the characters to keep them around) but if not he'll have been an aspirant that was effectively "tithed" to Cawl when the legion split) so the bolter heavy and kind of limited options fits the theme I've got in my head for now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Hopefully none. Primaris Marines are cool models but their fluff is garbage and are some of the weakest additions to 40k.

Oh my sweet summer child.

40k is full of a lot of bad lore, but the Primaris aren't even close to the worst the game has had in the past. It's incomplete due to still being in the stage of being built up and expanded on, but it's a far better solution for the Marines than "we've always had this and used it, but not anywhere you could see it, also enjoy our changed lore that makes this new thing in the codex more important than the original units in the old lore".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I dislike it because it's lazy writing. I had actually enjoyed that they moved the story along a bit when they first did the End Times trilogy for 40k and was glad they handled it a lot better than Fantasy. My issue going forward is if anything the Imperium seems to suddenly be fundamentally written in a different manor. Primaris Marines are marines plus 1 who some how fix any flaw the various chapters had because Cawl does science better than the emperor could do. I'm a marine playing for over a decade and I just find this to the most boring and uninspired thing GW could have done.

Lazy writing was all the "we've always had these" nonsense we've put up with for decades.

Primaris bring the ideals of the old Imperium into conflict with the modern Imperium. They're literally displaced from everything they knew and have to come to terms to a drastically different Imperium and watch a Primarch try and pull it back from the brink while the whole thing seems to want to rush over the edge faster than ever.

Giving back the implants came from having a purer geneseed to work with, and even the Space Marines were just an upgrade on what came before it. Custodes were replaced as the Emperor's main fighting force by Thunder Warriors who were replaced by Marines, who are being replaced by Primaris. One of the Primaris upgrades is literally a Primarch organ (likely where they get the name from) and another is likely a Mechanicum body upgrade being applied to the Marines (sinew coils), the only thing Cawl did new was give the Furnace to the Marines which kickstarts their healing factor to improve their chances to not die. And considering Cawl is the guy who did brain surgery on himself during the Heresy to make himself smarter (and basically devoured the knowledge of his old teacher when she went traitor), his knowledge isn't too far out there (especially if he's been devouring the knowledge of rival Magi over the last 10k years).

Not exactly "doing everything the Emperor did, but better". It's one truly new implant, one Primarch organ and one bit he likely nicked from the Mechanicum's vaults for making better Mechanicum soldiers.

Basically, in a nutshell, they took the background of Legions/Chapters and sharted on it with Cawl - stale line of products, which happens to be their poster boy, but they know full well they won't get away with Centurion shenanigans again.

A spacemarine in a spacemarine.

I think you will absolutely see a Primaris Codex at some point. Firstly, there will be nothing but Primaris kits in the future, so GW won't want 10-15-20 new kits out there without a codex.

Secondly, we can all admit Marines are pretty crap/weak at the moment, right? Well that puts GW in the cat-bird seat, whether intentional or not. How do you boost sales of the new line of models while slowly reducing the sales of the old marine models?

A Primaris Codex could be the perfect solution. New units or some revised rules and suddenly Primaris become the better option by a mile. It may seem somewhat bizarre to current players, but think about players brand new to the game. A salesman basically saying "These are the current marines, but you can still buy these older, smaller, weaker marines if you want.".

It puts GW in a perfect position to accomplish a couple different goals.

Yeah, I'm a fan of the new dudes, but I refuse to mix them with my Salamanders. I've a complete Battle Company of Primaris, mostly painted but even I think the fluff out-Herods Herod. It jumps so many sharks it's ridiculous. And the worst, worst thing about it is it skipped the entire interesting struggle. The Indomitus Crusade is actually over, for goodness sake. We never see these guys develop. We've lost scope to do a Grey Shields force, which might have been interesting. Primaris just arrived fully formed in a trumpet blast of Deus ex Machina half-assedness.