Rampant Primaris only speculation / wishlisting?

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**Delvarus Centurion**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Now that Cawl has created grav tech we'll most likely get jet bikes.

Cawl didn't "invent" grav tech, he just violated the sacred STC of something like a Land Raider by slapping more guns and grave plates onto it (that or found an STC for the thing somewhere).

Still not solid on this idea of grav bike Primaris. I mean the Dark Angels and White Scars would be happy, but I don't know if it really adds anything to the army beyond a thematic choice.,

He didn't invent the original, but he invented the new grav tech, there is no lore I've heard that shows how he made them. Of course it adds something, who can't use a jetbike. Its daft if the DA's and the WS's get them and no one else does.

He's using grav plates, something that are on vehicles the Imperium over. It's not new tech, it's a new application of old tech.,

I never said it was new tech. I've got 30k custodes grav tanks.

You literally called it "new grav tech" in the post I quoted.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Andykp wrote:
I like the repulsor. Best new marine vehicle in ages.

Way too points, though.

About Land Raider costed, but better choice in guns for the cost of a point of save (3+ instead of a 2+).

Yeah because its not the same as the old grav tech, it is new and also 'new tech'. based on old tech. You are stuck on semantics, he invented this new tech, he didn't come up with the original idea of grav tech. Steve jobs and his company invented the Iphone, they didn't invent the phone.

**Crimson**

Look, a Space Marine grav tank is not new tech, they've existed since the Rogue Trader!
It just took a while for GW to update the model.

**Delvarus Centurion**

Crimson wrote:
Look, a Space Marine grav tank is not new tech, they've existed since the Rogue Trader!
It just took a while for GW to update the model.

The grav tech on the repulser etc is new. Again he didn't invent grav tech. its not the same as the old grav tech, it is new and also 'new tech'. based on old tech. he invented this new tech, he didn't come up with the original idea of grav tech. Steve jobs and his company invented the Iphone, they didn't invent the phone. As for land speeders etc. That tech was lost.

**Crimson Devil**

Deodorant tank mark 2!

I think I like the Repulsor even more now.

**Martel732**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I guess. The 2+ armor is great vs S5 spam attacks though. Repulsor is super-flimsy.

Honestly if someone wants to waste that many S5 shots on a Repulsor I say go for it. You know how many shots it would take?

Repulsor is so expensive it's still efficient.

You didn't answer the question.

Probably quite a bit. 30 ish dissy cannon shots. But if you're fielding the repulsor, they've got nothing else to shoot at.

**bananathug**

doom the repulsor and you only need 8 dissie cannons to have a basically 50/50 shot (3x ravagers). Jinx it and you only need 7...

**ClockworkZion**

Martel732 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I guess. The 2+ armor is great vs S5 spam attacks though. Repulsor is super-flimsy.

Honestly if someone wants to waste that many S5 shots on a Repulsor I say go for it. You know how many shots it would take?

Repulsor is so expensive it's still efficient.

Assuming the Tau are the firing army and are likely shooting at BS4+, 290 S5 shots to kill one Repulsor. 216 if they have 3+ to hit.

How many points of Tau is that exactly?

**Martel732**

They still knocking out 300+ points. It's not as bad as it sounds. Repulsor is a joke vs weapons actually designed to hurt it.

**nurgle5**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I guess. The 2+ armor is great vs S5 spam attacks though. Repulsor is super-flimsy.

Honestly if someone wants to waste that many S5 shots on a Repulsor I say go for it. You know how many shots it would take?

Repulsor is so expensive it's still efficient.

Assuming the Tau are the firing army and are likely shooting at BS4+, 290 S5 shots to kill one Repulsor. 216 if they have 3+ to hit.

How many points of Tau is that exactly?

If they are all rapid-firing with pulse rifles or armed with pulse carbines, and assuming 3+ to hit, it's about 750pts of Fire Warriors. It's just over a 1000pts at 4+ to hit, and up to 2000pts if they're not all in range for 2 shots each.

**ClockworkZion**

nurgle5 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I guess. The 2+ armor is great vs S5 spam attacks though. Repulsor is super-flimsy.

Honestly if someone wants to waste that many S5 shots on a Repulsor I say go for it. You know how many shots it would take?

Repulsor is so expensive it's still efficient.

Assuming the Tau are the firing army and are likely shooting at BS4+, 290 S5 shots to kill one Repulsor. 216 if they have 3+ to hit.

How many points of Tau is that exactly?

If they are all rapid-firing with pulse rifles or armed with pulse carbines, and assuming 3+ to hit, it's about 750pts of Fire Warriors. It's just over a 1000pts at 4+ to hit, and up to 2000pts if they're not all in range for 2 shots each.

That's over double the points for the most bling'd out Repulsor for the first, and it only gets worse from there.

Apparently there is one army that can bring legitimate S5 shooting that could do it: Dark Eldar, but that's an issue with the Dissy more than anything. Either way, most armies can't drop one of these that easily in a single turm of shooting. And if that many models are shooing at it, they're not shooting the rest of your army.

**Martel732**

They don't need to. You brought a repulsor. And presumably you've got marines.

**ClockworkZion**

Martel732 wrote:
They don't need to. You brought a repulsor. And presumably you've got marines.

Martel, your meta based advice is basically useless considering you get cheated by your opponents regularly enough for me to notice (just from your posts in the Primaris only thread) and don't bother to learn their rules to catch them on it, so basically please stop. You're making us all feel embarrassed to have to read your heavily skewed advice that you claim reflects every meta ever.

**Martel732**

No? Put me on ignore, then.

I never claimed it's every meta. I'm saying the repulsor is objectively bad compared to other units and choices.

My original point stands that for a 300+ point investment, the 2+ is really nice. Nicer than fly, because they almost always die to shooting.

**ClockworkZion**

Martel732 wrote:
No? Put me on ignore, then.

I never claimed it's every meta. I'm saying the repulsor is objectively bad compared to other units and choices.

My original point stands that for a 300+ point investment, the 2+ is really nice. Nicer than fly, because they almost always die to shooting.

Your "point" is always based on apparently infinite amount of shooting that every army has in equal measure that automatically invalidates almost all of the Primaris list regardless of the fact that only very specific builds of certain armies are bad match ups for Primaris.

And even when math shows you that you're wrong about how generalist your claims are, you claim you're right.

This isn't tactical genius, it's basically the opposite.

**fraser1191**

I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

**Martel732**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
No? Put me on ignore, then.

I never claimed it's every meta. I'm saying the repulsor is objectively bad compared to other units and choices.

My original point stands that for a 300+ point investment, the 2+ is really nice. Nicer than fly, because they almost always die to shooting.

Your "point" is always based on apparently infinite amount of shooting that every army has in equal measure that automatically invalidates almost all of the Primaris list regardless of the fact that only very specific builds of certain armies are bad match ups for Primaris.

And even when math shows you that you're wrong about how generalist your claims are, you claim you're right.

This isn't tactical genius, it's basically the opposite.

Then put me on ignore and be done with it. 2 damage weapons are everywhere and legimately ruin primaris marines. You can pretend otherwise, but you would be wrong.

**Delvarus Centurion**

Warpig1815 wrote:
In the spirit of rampant wishlisting, here's my wishes (For what they're worth ):

Do away with the whole 'Old Marines' line, reintroducing only the most iconic bits in Primaris scale. I'm speaking from a collecting/lore point of view, so I can't really say how this would affect the TT game. Anywaay, the bit's I'd reintroduce would be:

Jump-Pack equipped Assault Squads.
Primaris Terminators
Primaris Heavy Weapons squad

Vehicles:

A proper tank. The Land Raider and Repulsor are both, in reality, heavy APC's/Assault Guns (Think a cross between a M113 and a Stug), despite being touted as a 'Tank' by GW. The Rhino is also an APC and the Predator (and Razor-back) are more like an IFV. Currently, Space Marines do not actually have a genuine MBT-type tank (Because the IoM doesn't want them getting too powerful - but now they have a Primarch running the show, so...)

No bikes, aside from scouts. As mentioned before, motorbike cavalry charges are... dubious, to say the least.

Finally, Relics. This is the key bit that I think GW overlooked when they introduced Primaris Marines (Especially as they came off the back of Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero). The core, central, overwhelming theme of the Imperium is that they are dogmatic, backwards looking and they utterly venerate relics. Even the most progressive of SM Chapters, even if they disregard the religious aspects of IoM dogma, still regard Chapter relics as objects of great worth.

But, helmets and shoulder pads aside, none of the classic weapons or marks of armour can be utilised by Primaris Marines. So what the feth was the point in doing BaC and BoP? All those iconic armours that people have wanted for years are utterly pointless unless you use them solely for 30k! So, I'd wish-list the most for a few boxes of true-scaled relic armours. I have no idea how you would justify them in the lore - perhaps the chapter artificers reforged the suits to fit them? All this could have been avoided if they had just avoided making Primaris marines bigger in the fluff...

It would be a very gak day if they got rid of jump packs, I hope they keep terminators to the indomitus style, loved it since 2nd and same with the devs.

**Stux**

Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Warpig1815 wrote:
In the spirit of rampant wishlisting, here's my wishes (For what they're worth ):

Do away with the whole 'Old Marines' line, reintroducing only the most iconic bits in Primaris scale. I'm speaking from a collecting/lore point of view, so I can't really say how this would affect the TT game. Anywaay, the bit's I'd reintroduce would be:

Jump-Pack equipped Assault Squads.
Primaris Terminators
Primaris Heavy Weapons squad

Vehicles:

A proper tank. The Land Raider and Repulsor are both, in reality, heavy APC's/Assault Guns (Think a cross between a M113 and a Stug), despite being touted as a 'Tank' by GW. The Rhino is also an APC and the Predator (and Razor-back) are more like an IFV. Currently, Space Marines do not actually have a genuine MBT-type tank (Because the IoM doesn't want them getting too powerful - but now they have a Primarch running the show, so...)

No bikes, aside from scouts. As mentioned before, motorbike cavalry charges are... dubious, to say the least.

Finally, Relics. This is the key bit that I think GW overlooked when they introduced Primaris Marines (Especially as they came off the back of Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero). The core, central, overwhelming theme of the Imperium is that they are dogmatic, backwards looking and they utterly venerate relics. Even the most progressive of SM Chapters, even if they disregard the religious aspects of IoM dogma, still regard Chapter relics as objects of great worth.

But, helmets and shoulder pads aside, none of the classic weapons or marks of armour can be utilised by Primaris Marines. So what the feth was the point in doing BaC and BoP? All those iconic armours that people have wanted for years are utterly pointless unless you use them solely for 30k! So, I'd wish-list the most for a few boxes of true-scaled relic armours. I have no idea how you would justify them in the lore - perhaps the chapter artificers reforged the suits to fit them? All this could have been avoided if they had just avoided making Primaris marines bigger in the fluff...

It would be a very gak day if they got rid of jump packs, I hope they keep terminators to the indomitus style, loved it since 2nd and same with the devs.

I'm sure they'll keep the basic Indomitus look as it's so iconic, but I am also sure it'll get the Primaris treatment one day and be upscaled and reproportioned.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If we're lucky they'll also tack on the rules to make them playable!

**Warpig1815**

fraser1191 wrote:I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

Not to be rude, but that is the worst possible fluff-butchering GW could do regarding inserting more Primaris marines in the setting. Unless the lore has been changed, it's heavily implied that the Fire Hawks were caught in a Warp storm, killed and resurrected as psychic constructs (possibly by the Emperor) - the Legion of the Damned. Hence, it would be physically impossible for them to be 'reinforced' with Primaris Marines, not to mention that nobody in their right mind is going to attempt to reinforce a dead chapter anyway. The only way they could fluff-mangle it is if the LotD 'assume' the form of the latest marines - which completely circumvents their nature as a lost chapter returned with a psychic malady/blessing.

@Delvarus Centurion + Stux - Indomitus is alright, but it's the potential loss of Tartarus that grieves me the most

If only Gravis hadn't been described as almost as strong as Terminator armour, but more agile - then Terminator armour would still hold it's use (Lore-wise, I can't speak for the TT)

**Delvarus Centurion**

Warpig1815 wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

Not to be rude, but that is the worst possible fluff-butchering GW could do regarding inserting more Primaris marines in the setting. Unless the lore has been changed, it's heavily implied that the Fire Hawks were caught in a Warp storm, killed and resurrected as psychic constructs (possibly by the Emperor) - the Legion of the Damned. Hence, it would be physically impossible for them to be 'reinforced' with Primaris Marines, not to mention that nobody in their right mind is going to attempt to reinforce a dead chapter anyway. The only way they could fluff-mangle it is if the LotD 'assume' the form of the latest marines - which completely circumvents their nature as a lost chapter returned with a psychic malady/blessing.

@Delvarus Centurion + Stux - Indomitus is alright, but it's the potential loss of Tartarus that grieves me the most If only Gravis hadn't been described as almost as strong as Terminator armour, but more agile - then Terminator armour would still hold it's use (Lore-wise, I can't speak for the TT)

They should just make them the same size as Primaris, but you're right there is no way they'd be able to get access to the gene-tech.

**Banville**

Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Warpig1815 wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

Not to be rude, but that is the worst possible fluff-butchering GW could do regarding inserting more Primaris marines in the setting. Unless the lore has been changed, it's heavily implied that the Fire Hawks were caught in a Warp storm, killed and resurrected as psychic constructs (possibly by the Emperor) - the Legion of the Damned. Hence, it would be physically impossible for them to be 'reinforced' with Primaris Marines, not to mention that nobody in their right mind is going to attempt to reinforce a dead chapter anyway. The only way they could fluff-mangle it is if the LotD 'assume' the form of the latest marines - which completely circumvents their nature as a lost chapter returned with a psychic malady/blessing.

@Delvarus Centurion + Stux - Indomitus is alright, but it's the potential loss of Tartarus that grieves me the most If only Gravis hadn't been described as almost as strong as Terminator armour, but more agile - then Terminator armour would still hold it's use (Lore-wise, I can't speak for the TT)

They should just make them the same size as Primaris, but you're right there is no way they'd be able to get access to the gene-tech.

Also, they're actual ghosts.....

**fraser1191**

Banville wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Warpig1815 wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

Not to be rude, but that is the worst possible fluff-butchering GW could do regarding inserting more Primaris marines in the setting. Unless the lore has been changed, it's heavily implied that the Fire Hawks were caught in a Warp storm, killed and resurrected as psychic constructs (possibly by the Emperor) - the Legion of the Damned. Hence, it would be physically impossible for them to be 'reinforced' with Primaris Marines, not to mention that nobody in their right mind is going to attempt to reinforce a dead chapter anyway. The only way they could fluff-mangle it is if the LotD 'assume' the form of the latest marines - which completely circumvents their nature as a lost chapter returned with a psychic malady/blessing.

@Delvarus Centurion + Stux - Indomitus is alright, but it's the potential loss of Tartarus that grieves me the most If only Gravis hadn't been described as almost as strong as Terminator armour, but more agile - then Terminator armour would still hold it's use (Lore-wise, I can't speak for the TT)

They should just make them the same size as Primaris, but you're right there is no way they'd be able to get access to the gene-tech.

Also, they're actual ghosts.....

Implied =/= fact

What can I say, I like the look of Primaris and you may as well accept them, they're not going to be ret conned out.

**BrianDavion**

Warpig1815 wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

Not to be rude, but that is the worst possible fluff-butchering GW could do regarding inserting more Primaris marines in the setting. Unless the lore has been changed, it's heavily implied that the Fire Hawks were caught in a Warp storm, killed and resurrected as psychic constructs (possibly by the Emperor) - the Legion of the Damned. Hence, it would be physically impossible for them to be 'reinforced' with Primaris Marines, not to mention that nobody in their right mind is going to attempt to reinforce a dead chapter anyway. The only way they could fluff-mangle it is if the LotD 'assume' the form of the latest marines - which completely circumvents their nature as a lost chapter returned with a psychic malady/blessing.

@Delvarus Centurion + Stux - Indomitus is alright, but it's the potential loss of Tartarus that grieves me the most If only Gravis hadn't been described as almost as strong as Terminator armour, but more agile - then Terminator armour would still hold it's use (Lore-wise, I can't speak for the TT)

If they're a Psychic construct of the emperor's I can think of a few ways it could be done. "the Legion have of late appered with primaris Marines among their ranks, this has caused some great questions among the Inqusitors researching them, several theories have of late been advanced. The First is that these Primaris Legion are the transformed remains of those who accompanied Cato Sicaruious and Fleet Avenger, thought lost in the warp. Others have suggested the Legion are in fact Physcic constructs and the Primaris Marines presence among them is proof manifest of the Emperor's support for them. Still Others have suggested that as Physic constructs, the Legion is, much like anything of the warp, subject to being changed by the perceptions of individuals. As such they postulate that the Primaris Marines are due to the growing association of Primaris Marines among the Legion of the damned"

There we go, three equally possiable ways that Primaris Legion could happen, all that seem both possiable and include some intreasting possiabilities. (including the idea of "Cato Sicarious, Captain of the Damned!".. I'm head canoning that

)

**Slayer-Fan123**

Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Warpig1815 wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

Not to be rude, but that is the worst possible fluff-butchering GW could do regarding inserting more Primaris marines in the setting. Unless the lore has been changed, it's heavily implied that the Fire Hawks were caught in a Warp storm, killed and resurrected as psychic constructs (possibly by the Emperor) - the Legion of the Damned. Hence, it would be physically impossible for them to be 'reinforced' with Primaris Marines, not to mention that nobody in their right mind is going to attempt to reinforce a dead chapter anyway. The only way they could fluff-mangle it is if the LotD 'assume' the form of the latest marines - which completely circumvents their nature as a lost chapter returned with a psychic malady/blessing.

@Delvarus Centurion + Stux - Indomitus is alright, but it's the potential loss of Tartarus that grieves me the most If only Gravis hadn't been described as almost as strong as Terminator armour, but more agile - then Terminator armour would still hold it's use (Lore-wise, I can't speak for the TT)

They should just make them the same size as Primaris, but you're right there is no way they'd be able to get access to the gene-tech.

For the price, LotD should HAVE two wounds.

Any universal fixes to Bolt weapons would improve them too. Or they need special Bolters for themselves. I dunno. I forgot the unit entry myself.

**Delvarus Centurion**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Delvarus Centurion wrote:
Warpig1815 wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

Not to be rude, but that is the worst possible fluff-butchering GW could do regarding inserting more Primaris marines in the setting. Unless the lore has been changed, it's heavily implied that the Fire Hawks were caught in a Warp storm, killed and resurrected as psychic constructs (possibly by the Emperor) - the Legion of the Damned. Hence, it would be physically impossible for them to be 'reinforced' with Primaris Marines, not to mention that nobody in their right mind is going to attempt to reinforce a dead chapter anyway. The only way they could fluff-mangle it is if the LotD 'assume' the form of the latest marines - which completely circumvents their nature as a lost chapter returned with a psychic malady/blessing.

@Delvarus Centurion + Stux - Indomitus is alright, but it's the potential loss of Tartarus that grieves me the most If only Gravis hadn't been described as almost as strong as Terminator armour, but more agile - then Terminator armour would still hold it's use (Lore-wise, I can't speak for the TT)

They should just make them the same size as Primaris, but you're right there is no way they'd be able to get access to the gene-tech.

For the price, LotD should HAVE two wounds.

Any universal fixes to Bolt weapons would improve them too. Or they need special Bolters for themselves. I dunno. I forgot the unit entry myself.

'ALL' marines should have 2 wounds. 1 wound does not cut it in this edition, especially for how expensive our models are.

**darkcloak**

Weird. This went from Rhinos for Primaris, which should probably be called a Primaro or a Rhinaris, to Rhinos suck because Wave Serpents are awesome, to nerd mudslinging. Got the pit-stick landspeeder pic tho...

I think the Gravis armour is not a replacement for Terminator armour but rather for Artificer! AA was basically PA but with more bling and way older so that makes sense in the way Gravis armour is a logical step up from Mk10 PA.

And besides, who wouldn't buy Primaris Terminators? What would they be called huh? Primarinators.... Ha.

GW would sell them funny though for IP security... Primarinaetors.

**BrianDavion**

darkcloak wrote:
Weird. This went from Rhinos for Primaris, which should probably be called a Primaro or a Rhinaris, to Rhinos suck because Wave Serpents are awesome, to nerd mudslinging. Got the pit-stick landspeeder pic tho...

I think the Gravis armour is not a replacement for Terminator armour but rather for Artificer! AA was basically PA but with more bling and way older so that makes sense in the way Gravis armour is a logical step up from Mk10 PA.

And besides, who wouldn't buy Primaris Terminators? What would they be called huh? Primarinators.... Ha.

GW would sell them funny though for IP security... Primarinaetors.

Actually I think if I was with GW and I had to name a terminator squad I'd continue with the fancy names and go with Primaris Invitca's

**Delvarus Centurion**

darkcloak wrote:
Weird. This went from Rhinos for Primaris, which should probably be called a Primaro or a Rhinaris, to Rhinos suck because Wave Serpents are awesome, to nerd mudslinging. Got the pit-stick landspeeder pic tho...

I think the Gravis armour is not a replacement for Terminator armour but rather for Artificer! AA was basically PA but with more bling and way older so that makes sense in the way Gravis armour is a logical step up from Mk10 PA.

And besides, who wouldn't buy Primaris Terminators? What would they be called huh? Primarinators.... Ha.

GW would sell them funny though for IP security... Primarinaetors.

You think rhino's are good at 70pnts.

**ClockworkZion**

fraser1191 wrote:
I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

That could be pretty cool actually.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
No? Put me on ignore, then.

I never claimed it's every meta. I'm saying the repulsor is objectively bad compared to other units and choices.

My original point stands that for a 300+ point investment, the 2+ is really nice. Nicer than fly, because they almost always die to shooting.

Your "point" is always based on apparently infinite amount of shooting that every army has in equal measure that automatically invalidates almost all of the Primaris list regardless of the fact that only very specific builds of certain armies are bad match ups for Primaris.

And even when math shows you that you're wrong about how generalist your claims are, you claim you're right.

This isn't tactical genius, it's basically the opposite.

Then put me on ignore and be done with it. 2 damage weapons are everywhere and legimately ruin primaris marines. You can pretend otherwise, but you would be wrong.

Putting you on ignore and not countering your claims with actual information is basically the same as agreeing it to be true because it's being left unchallenged with actual information.

Are D2+ weapons a problem for Primaris? In that they're the same for Necron vehicles with QS, sure. Are most metas tailoring specifically to bring them when dealing with threats like Guard CP farms, Knights, Eldar and the like that are actually running metas right now? Not outside of yours where an opponent apparently regularly tailors his Guard army to run all autocannons to kill you basically turn one.

Something that counters an army isn't a problem unless the entire meta adopts the position of counting it, and frankly they're much bigger threats in most armies that Primaris are sitting in a comfortable mid-tier position and not at the bottom of the heap with the Grey Knights.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warpig1815 wrote:
fraser1191 wrote:I'm just going to go out into left field and say Primaris Legion of the Damned. Love those guys and I just want them in plastic and that's probably the only way they'll ever get re-done

Not to be rude, but that is the worst possible fluff-butchering GW could do regarding inserting more Primaris marines in the setting. Unless the lore has been changed, it's heavily implied that the Fire Hawks were caught in a Warp storm, killed and resurrected as psychic constructs (possibly by the Emperor) - the Legion of the Damned. Hence, it would be physically impossible for them to be 'reinforced' with Primaris Marines, not to mention that nobody in their right mind is going to attempt to reinforce a dead chapter anyway. The only way they could fluff-mangle it is if the LotD 'assume' the form of the latest marines - which completely circumvents their nature as a lost chapter returned with a psychic malady/blessing./quote]
It's heavily implied that there are multiple sources of the LotD, all of which could be true, or none of them. Another one of the heavily hinted at theories says they're either warp ghosts or daemons of the Emperor himself.

**Martel732**

Almost every weapon that works well vs Drukhari slaughters primaris. Almost every weapon that works well vs quantum shielding slaughters primaris. The kinds of weapons you want vs Tau in general also slaughter primaris, not to mention the missile systems of said Tau. The battle cannon is super nasty vs primaris.

Xenos are forcing a move away from low RoF good AP weapons to high volume, poorer AP, D3 or 2 damage weapons. Unless you think your pair of BA capts can punch all that stuff to death. Highly unlikely.

Couple this with the lack of range of primaris units and its just a slaughter. Hellblasters are easily countered by any kind of to hit penalty, and are at half firepower outside of 15". By the time primaris are in optimal firing range 66% or more are dead.

The guy isn't bringing ACs and hydras to kill primaris. Primaris just get murdered along the way.

Yes, these weapons stink vs IKs. But so do most shooting weapons. The ones with really nice AP and low RoF are countered by the ion shielding just as they are countered by all the cheap invulns littering Xeno lists. I don't see a reason to bring a lascannon anymore.