Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just to be 100% certain ...

Are there any rules or wordings that would prevent my from using this stratagem on a non-Space Wolves unit within 6" of a Rune Priest ... a Knight Castellan say?

You are in the clear. It says "friendly unit" not "friendly SPACE WOLVES unit".

The italic text part says : "...alerting nearby space wolves when unseen enemies approach." I dont see any rule that says you can ignore italic type text.

Related to this.....does Keen Senses get rid of the -1 to hit?

 p5freak wrote:
The italic text part says : "...alerting nearby space wolves when unseen enemies approach." I dont see any rule that says you can ignore italic type text.

You know as well as I do the Italic text has no bearing on rules. And even if it did, the italic text doesn't use SPACE WOLVES the keyword, so is meaningless. To parrot you, "I don't see any rule that says you have to follow the italic type text."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

General Hobbs wrote:


Related to this.....does Keen Senses get rid of the -1 to hit?

Yes, it does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Just to be 100% certain ...

Are there any rules or wordings that would prevent my from using this stratagem on a non-Space Wolves unit within 6" of a Rune Priest ... a Knight Castellan say?

You can benefit any friendly unit. If GW errata it later, well, it will change then, and not before.

As is it is obviously going to effect any friendly unit. The wording is clear as day. I do fully expect however it is a mistake and will be FAQd.

This is one where intent is clear as day given the italic text. Using the rules depts advice RAI is a perfectly valid reading of the rule. Therefore if anyone tried to pull that trick against me i would be perfectly happy to call them a cheat.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
You know as well as I do the Italic text has no bearing on rules.

Citiation please where it says to ignore italic text and only use the normal written text.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

And even if it did, the italic text doesn't use SPACE WOLVES the keyword, so is meaningless.

True, it uses space wolves in small letters, so it only applies to unit(s) with the name space wolves.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

To parrot you, "I don't see any rule that says you have to follow the italic type text."

There is no rule giving you permission to ignore any text part of a stratagem. Where does it say i have to follow the normal written text ?

 p5freak wrote:
There is no rule giving you permission to ignore any text part of a stratagem. Where does it say i have to follow the normal written text ?

There is also no rule that defines what a Roll is. Or what the order of numbers are. Even if the italic text was rules (which is isn't), later on the rule says any friendly unit.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
There is no rule giving you permission to ignore any text part of a stratagem. Where does it say i have to follow the normal written text ?

There is also no rule that defines what a Roll is. Or what the order of numbers are. Even if the italic text was rules (which is isn't), later on the rule says any friendly unit.

The italic text says space wolves. You cant ignore one part of a rule and choose to only follow the part you like. You havent provided any citation yet what text is rules, and what is not.

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
There is no rule giving you permission to ignore any text part of a stratagem. Where does it say i have to follow the normal written text ?

There is also no rule that defines what a Roll is. Or what the order of numbers are. Even if the italic text was rules (which is isn't), later on the rule says any friendly unit.

The italic text says space wolves. You cant ignore one part of a rule and choose to only follow the part you like. You havent provided any citation yet what text is rules, and what is not.

Yet it's okay for you to ignore where it says a "...single friendly unit..." and are requiring it to only be a Space Wolves unit?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
As is it is obviously going to effect any friendly unit. The wording is clear as day. I do fully expect however it is a mistake and will be FAQd.

This. Until then I agree with BCB twice in a day. Ay yay yay yay yay.

The italic text says space wolves, which is clearly referencing the Rune Priest... (Which of course is not rules anyway).

The Rune priest alert other Space wolves brother, and the brother alert the Knight pilot. Anything wrong?

yeah I agree, via RAW any unit of yours can use this, including a Eldar in a narrative game or something. that said I'd wait for the first FAQ/Errata before abusing this too much... That said... I'm gonna give a dissenting opinion here..

This is working as intended.

GW useally in every codex tries to slide in at least one mechanic almost made for soup more then for a pure codex (Exhibit A: the Velixa Defensor, useless for a pure Custodes list. it's obviously intended to babysit allied gunlines)

And when you compare this to the SM equivilant, Auspex scan, the SM equivilant is waaaaaaaay better if it's limited only to units in the codex. by tying this to rune priests my guess is the intent is to give space wolves something that can really contribute to a mixed force.

Just my two cents.

I think one of the most important things to take away from this stratagem is that space wolves apparently make use of familiars. I believe that was one of the things that got magnus and the thousand sons into a lot of trouble...

Has this been referenced in any other fluff?

As for the purpose of this thread, I believe the text is quite clear, any friendly unit can make use of this.

Primortus wrote:
I think one of the most important things to take away from this stratagem is that space wolves apparently make use of familiars. I believe that was one of the things that got magnus and the thousand sons into a lot of trouble...

Has this been referenced in any other fluff?

As for the purpose of this thread, I believe the text is quite clear, any friendly unit can make use of this.

It has and it's old, thing is these aren't Psykic familers but cyber familers.

Basicly they take a crow and shove it full of cybernetics.

BrianDavion wrote:

Primortus wrote:
I think one of the most important things to take away from this stratagem is that space wolves apparently make use of familiars. I believe that was one of the things that got magnus and the thousand sons into a lot of trouble...

Has this been referenced in any other fluff?

As for the purpose of this thread, I believe the text is quite clear, any friendly unit can make use of this.

It has and it's old, thing is these aren't Psykic familers but cyber familers.

Basicly they take a crow and shove it full of cybernetics.

Really? Interesting, I've never heard of that. Well that's good, for a second there I thought the space wolves might be hypocrites Who would have thought?

Primortus wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Primortus wrote:
I think one of the most important things to take away from this stratagem is that space wolves apparently make use of familiars. I believe that was one of the things that got magnus and the thousand sons into a lot of trouble...

Has this been referenced in any other fluff?

As for the purpose of this thread, I believe the text is quite clear, any friendly unit can make use of this.

It has and it's old, thing is these aren't Psykic familers but cyber familers.

Basicly they take a crow and shove it full of cybernetics.

Really? Interesting, I've never heard of that. Well that's good, for a second there I thought the space wolves might be hypocrites Who would have thought?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Familiar

 Ghaz wrote:

Yet it's okay for you to ignore where it says a "...single friendly unit..." and are requiring it to only be a Space Wolves unit?

It says space wolves and later single friendly unit. I dont ignore any of these. No one has provided any rule citiation yet which part of a stratagem is rules and which part is not.

 p5freak wrote:
It says space wolves and later single friendly unit. I dont ignore any of these. No one has provided any rule citiation yet which part of a stratagem is rules and which part is not.

Yet you ignore the "unseen enemies" part.

By your logic, you can't use the stratagem because it refers to unseen enemies, and a target unit has to be seen to be chosen as a target. Unless the stratagem is talking about two different enemy units, the unseen one and the one set up after arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements.

And anyway, even if we were to take the flavour text into consideration, it says nearby Space Wolves are alerted when unseen enemies approach. It doesn't say only those alerted Space Wolves themselves may fire upon the approaching unseen enemies, so pull your head in.

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
You know as well as I do the Italic text has no bearing on rules.

Citiation please where it says to ignore italic text and only use the normal written text.

What is flavour text?

All keywords are written like SPACE WOLVES by the way.

 p5freak wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Yet it's okay for you to ignore where it says a "...single friendly unit..." and are requiring it to only be a Space Wolves unit?

It says space wolves and later single friendly unit. I dont ignore any of these. No one has provided any rule citiation yet which part of a stratagem is rules and which part is not.

And again, it says "... a single friendly unit...". Just because they use the word 'Space Wolves' elsewhere does not make the rule say "... a single friendly SPACE WOLVES unit..." You don't get to pick and choose the words and put them back together in a different order to claim that they say something that they don't say.

Andykp wrote:
This is one where intent is clear as day given the italic text. Using the rules depts advice RAI is a perfectly valid reading of the rule. Therefore if anyone tried to pull that trick against me i would be perfectly happy to call them a cheat.

Where does it say in the italic text that the nearby Space Wolves can't radio in to the nearby Knight and have it unleash upon the interloper that's showing up? What's in italics is flavor text, the rules say "friendly" unit without limiting it to Space Wolves. It's deliberately written that way to accomodate having an army with detachments of different factions.

There is only one person making that argument and it is obviously wrong.

As written you can use it on any friendly unit. /thread

Are there other instances where the fluff text is being used as rules? I dont recall any.

Well, having to use fluff text to determine which founding Chapter a Successor Chapter came from to assign them Chapter Tactics, but that's a bit different than this situation.

 doctortom wrote:
Well, having to use fluff text to determine which founding Chapter a Successor Chapter came from to assign them Chapter Tactics, but that's a bit different than this situation.

Because the rule explicitly tells you to look at the fluff.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
Well, having to use fluff text to determine which founding Chapter a Successor Chapter came from to assign them Chapter Tactics, but that's a bit different than this situation.

Because the rule explicitly tells you to look at the fluff.

Hence my saying "it's a bit different than this situation".

Even if the fluff part mattered for the actual rule (it really dont) you could easily make up a story how the knight had won the friendship of the marines and was considered a member of the pack, and thus was an actual space wolf.

And that is exactly why fluff is not part of the rules: with a proper back story anyone would be able to sanction any kind of brutal rules abuse.