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This has come up a few times on recent threads so I thought I'd canvas opinion.

Here's what GW say about 'The Hobby': https://investor.games-workshop.com/the-games-workshop-hobby/

And here's some discussion in the media about it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17274186

Of course you might say that GW just sell tabletop wargaming products, not a hobby in itself.

I fully expect there to be alternative opinions expressed here because it's quite a subjective (and potentially controversial) subject.

For me personally they do. Firstly because they undeniably sell the full range of hobby products covering collecting, modelling, painting, gaming and (importantly, although they didn't mention it in their description) fiction, but also because I only play WH40K. That does of course make me a tabletop wargame hobbyist, but crucially I have no interest in playing other tabletop wargames. The WH40K setting is everything when it comes to my hobby. The only other tabletop wargame I've played is Space Hulk, and that is of course set in the WH40K universe.

What's your viewpoint? Even if you play tabletop wargames from other companies, do you think GW sell a hobby?

GW sell a franchise based upon their very strong IP. This is so strong that people all to often put the cart in front of the horse.

The hobby is collecting and painting models, the rules used for gaming are not essential. I could collect GW Tau and Mantics Zombies and creat my own rule system. The models are not connected to the rules. If one really wanted they could just print out photos of the models, attach them to bases and play a game with those.

What GW have done is made the gaming element the central part, to the point where people base their purchasing on what is good in the game that GW sell. As they keep bringing out new editions the goal posts shift, hence people buy models that are seen as good in the edition which were previously bad, and as such didn't sell.

It is a very successful model, it would be similar to seeing only Burger King Burgers as Burgers. A crude analogy.

It may seem like I am being harsh, but this view comes from nearly 3 decades of being in the hobby, and also being an ex-GW employee. I don't hate GW or their games, they are a fun casual game. I understand why they aim to portray themselves as the hobby, it makes business sense.

 Brother Castor wrote:
This has come up a few times on recent threads so I thought I'd canvas opinion.

Here's what GW say about 'The Hobby': https://investor.games-workshop.com/the-games-workshop-hobby/

And here's some discussion in the media about it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17274186

Of course you might say that GW just sell tabletop wargaming products, not a hobby in itself.

I fully expect there to be alternative opinions expressed here because it's quite a subjective (and potentially controversial) subject.

For me personally they do. Firstly because they undeniably sell the full range of hobby products covering collecting, modelling, painting, gaming and (importantly, although they didn't mention it in their description) fiction, but also because I only play WH40K. That does of course make me a tabletop wargame hobbyist, but crucially I have no interest in playing other tabletop wargames. The WH40K setting is everything when it comes to my hobby. The only other tabletop wargame I've played is Space Hulk, and that is of course set in the WH40K universe.

What's your viewpoint? Even if you play tabletop wargames from other companies, do you think GW sell a hobby?

Those wargaming products ARE the hobby. A hobby is defined as "An activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure." Games Workshop sells plastic models for assmbly and painting, which they then supply the rules to be used in a game. People who buy their products buy them as something to do "regularly for pleasure" as such yes Games workshop sells a hobby. It's pretty open and shut here.

I wonder if GW merch falls under the same rules as it is in the case mobile games, where 8-10% of all people generate 50%+ of all income. I don't know if GW sells a hobby, they sure say it is so. I am just not sure how many people think about the GW productst that way. There is a ton of people that don't care about the books or stories, there are people who buy models, but don't play, and even more who play, but never paint their armies. That people that do all 3 do seem to stay for a long time, and maybe they do generate most of GW income.

Sure they sell a hobby!

They are not alone in selling this particular hobby, but they are pretty much one of if not the biggest single company in the wargames market.

And sure GW marketing focuses on GW only; that's kinda what marketing for your own company does. Just like Privateer Press isn't marketing GW products; GW isn't marketing PP products and neither are marketing Reaper.



So yes Miniature Wargames and model collecting and painting - they are all hobbies that GW sells.

The hobby is the activities around interacting with the products. Building, painting, converting, reading lore, planning armies, and of course playing.

GW literally sell the tools required to do all those activities rather than selling the activities themselves. However I very much believe GW see themselves as a lifestyle company. You buy into the GW lifestyle, and then define yourself in those terms.

How much people actually buy into that varies hugely from person to person, but I definitely think it's their goal.

Stux wrote:
The hobby is the activities around interacting with the products. Building, painting, converting, reading lore, planning armies, and of course playing.

How much people actually buy into that varies hugely from person to person, but I definitely think it's their goal.

Let's find out: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/762826.page

GW sell both a hobby in the various games based on their IP and hobby supplies in the form of models, paints, tools etc. etc.

So yes and no. I think the answer depends on your personal involvement in GW's stuff. I'm like you, I'm super into 40k (and have been quitting and coming back for 22 years) but I have zero interest in any other games outside the 40k 'universe', so I'm not really a tabletop game hobbyist. Then again I spend a fortune on plastic tabletop game miniatures and accessories, so I am a tabletop game hobbyist.

I don't know. I know a lot about the Eastern Front, but that doesn't make me a historian, so...

Maybe, kind of, and not really, all at the same time

To quote the unintentionally honest Merrit from the Chapterhouse debacle "-Mr. Merrett described Games Day to the jury as a Games Workshop event that allowed customers to perform their “favorite hobby activity; buying things from Games Workshop”.

Despite the smoke and mirrors of the 'nu-GW cares' chicanery its still blindling apparent they just want to sell stuff, which is fine, what you do with it after that really isn't their concern, once again fine and per the financials it seems to be working

GW sells a setting in which games, fiction, and models are based. What we do with such products is the hobby, and drives the sale of their actual goods.

So in a way they sell hobbies, in others they sell physical goods and we have to make our own hobby from said things.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Maybe, kind of, and not really, all at the same time

To quote the unintentionally honest Merrit from the Chapterhouse debacle "-Mr. Merrett described Games Day to the jury as a Games Workshop event that allowed customers to perform their “favorite hobby activity; buying things from Games Workshop”.

Despite the smoke and mirrors of the 'nu-GW cares' chicanery its still blindling apparent they just want to sell stuff, which is fine, what you do with it after that really isn't their concern, once again fine and per the financials it seems to be working

Well yeah - but that is the commercial reality of existence. Golf clubs want to sell golf.

I don't think GW is unique in selling the hobby - that nexus of collecting miniatures, painting them, playing with them and having a story/setting in which they exist.
But they are (right now at least) probably the best - and certainly the largest - at doing so.

But its a bit like asking "does MTG/D&D sell a hobby - or a collection of playing cards/text books". I mean... without the activity, what is there?

Gw sells garbage. At least that would be ideal for their profits. If consumers simply consumed then gw could sell the same model again and again. This is why we see them move to micro transactions and increasing numbers of one-off boxes with collector's item type limited runs. Their profits depend on creating an ever hungry consumer. So no they do not sell a hobby. They try to market an addiction. The hobby aspect is completely on our end and in our minds and hearts about which gw cares nothing in then end. Case in point primaris and Girlyman ridiculousness. Crack and pipes. Gw is run by neoclassical supplyside econ majors. Their only goal is to supply smoke and mirrors to the easily distracted. I hope that hackers put every one of their games on download sites for free and that Russian and Chinese entrepreneurs put all their models on disk for home 3d printers someday so soon that the entire gw marketing department finds itself at the government benefits office on the same Monday. Of course gw artists deserve better but it is our poor fortune to live in a world ruled by unrepentant financialization such that those who produce nothing get most everything and the only winning virtue is greed.

No. They're part of a much greater, larger hobby. It's just silly ad-speak.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Maybe, kind of, and not really, all at the same time

To quote the unintentionally honest Merrit from the Chapterhouse debacle "-Mr. Merrett described Games Day to the jury as a Games Workshop event that allowed customers to perform their “favorite hobby activity; buying things from Games Workshop”.

Despite the smoke and mirrors of the 'nu-GW cares' chicanery its still blindling apparent they just want to sell stuff, which is fine, what you do with it after that really isn't their concern, once again fine and per the financials it seems to be working

This is hovering above target

They better be selling a hobby, because their actual game is kinda rubbish.

 jeff white wrote:
Gw sells garbage. At least that would be ideal for their profits. If consumers simply consumed then gw could sell the same model again and again. This is why we see them move to micro transactions and increasing numbers of one-off boxes with collector's item type limited runs. Their profits depend on creating an ever hungry consumer. So no they do not sell a hobby. They try to market an addiction. The hobby aspect is completely on our end and in our minds and hearts about which gw cares nothing in then end. Case in point primaris and Girlyman ridiculousness. Crack and pipes. Gw is run by neoclassical supplyside econ majors. Their only goal is to supply smoke and mirrors to the easily distracted. I hope that hackers put every one of their games on download sites for free and that Russian and Chinese entrepreneurs put all their models on disk for home 3d printers someday so soon that the entire gw marketing department finds itself at the government benefits office on the same Monday. Of course gw artists deserve better but it is our poor fortune to live in a world ruled by unrepentant financialization such that those who produce nothing get most everything and the only winning virtue is greed.

Show us on the doll where the GW marketing team touched you.

GW sells what you put money into.

If you let GW make you that angry, to the point where you consider this an 'addiction' and a 'scam', then you have nothing but yourself to blame and you need to develop some financial discipline.

I'm not saying you can't complain about a price change, or a model's quality, or something within the scope of reason.

But if you feel as if you 'need' to buy anything from GW to have fun, you have a problem. Or maybe you're in a lousy meta and need to get the hell away from it. But that's not GW's fault.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
GW sells what you put money into.

If you let GW make you that angry, to the point where you consider this an 'addiction' and a 'scam', then you have nothing but yourself to blame and you need to develop some financial discipline.

I'm not saying you can't complain about a price change, or a model's quality, or something within the scope of reason.

But if you feel as if you 'need' to buy anything from GW to have fun, you have a problem. Or maybe you're in a lousy meta and need to get the hell away from it. But that's not GW's fault.

Agreed. and yes GW does provide us with new things constatly to try to get more money, but that's just basic busniess. nothing to be upset about. and despite what people claim new units are hardly "the most powerful evar tyhat you need to compete" I mean Primaris Marines are considered average at best. Half the time the meta has been older units. rememebr the era of dark reaper spam? how old are THOSE minis?

Nope. GW sells paints, brushes, model kits, and rulebooks and so on which are used to engage in the wargaming hobby. They do not sell wargaming any more than Nike sells the game of basketball, despite doing their darnedest to convince people that they are the hobby.

I voted "yes" even though I know the larger hobby is miniature wargaming. They really have developed a hobby totalism to offer their customers. They sell people even the idea of the various hobby activities, so I'll give it to them.

Can you:
Collect Miniatures
Paint Miniatures
Build/Convert Miniatures
Game with Miniatures
Read books about the "real" antics of those Miniatures

All with all so much as touching anything with a GW logo on it?

The answer, being yes, means that GW do not sell a hobby. They try and sell a self enclosed ecosystem and convince people they are the one true hobby, and this being in the 40K sub means it's inherently biased, there's people posting regularly here who don't even venture into news and rumors or general discussions, so are possibly very ill informed what the world outside GW looks like.

No.

They sell models and rules and paints and other stuff that are all used in the hobbies of tabletop wargaming and miniature painting.

(There are people who buy, assemble and paint models purely for the hobby of doing so, and do not game with those pieces - that aspect is part of the artistic rewards hobby, no different to doing it with scale model kits.

Then there are those who game with those pieces, and are part of the tabletop wargaming hobby.

GW doesn't sell a hobby anymore than Apple sells a "lifestyle".

 jeff white wrote:
Gw sells garbage. At least that would be ideal for their profits. If consumers simply consumed then gw could sell the same model again and again. This is why we see them move to micro transactions and increasing numbers of one-off boxes with collector's item type limited runs. Their profits depend on creating an ever hungry consumer. So no they do not sell a hobby. They try to market an addiction. The hobby aspect is completely on our end and in our minds and hearts about which gw cares nothing in then end. Case in point primaris and Girlyman ridiculousness. Crack and pipes. Gw is run by neoclassical supplyside econ majors. Their only goal is to supply smoke and mirrors to the easily distracted. I hope that hackers put every one of their games on download sites for free and that Russian and Chinese entrepreneurs put all their models on disk for home 3d printers someday so soon that the entire gw marketing department finds itself at the government benefits office on the same Monday. Of course gw artists deserve better but it is our poor fortune to live in a world ruled by unrepentant financialization such that those who produce nothing get most everything and the only winning virtue is greed.

So just to be clear, did you vote yes or no?