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Would you pay a subscription, per month or year, to access all the automatically updated index, codex, rules, chapter approved, faq, etc rather than buying them individually when they come out?

Now I think game rules could be free, but as an alternative, as the books (both electronic and hard copies) make plenty of money, I'd prefer to pay monthly rather than on individual books. Would anyone else? Would GW ever do this, or is the glut of money to get from a book release way more than the routine predictable income of a subscription?

Having a single app with all the datasheets, rules, strategies etc to hand would be really awesome!

What would be a reasonable price? I was thinking perhaps £10/month? I'd like lower though, perhaps £8 would be more reasonable.


I've thought of this for a while, but it would seem with the new subscription magazine that's coming out, GW are finally getting into the whole subscription thing.

Not really. Reason being they wouldn't be physical hardcopies that I find easier during game. Ebooks are better for off-game reference material though.

I suppose one could even have a premium service which includes hardcopies of the rules (perhaps lacking the fluff). Or you could still buy the hard copies or have a kind of binder system where the datacards can be put in and out so you can take them to a battle with only the bits you need.

TarkinLarson wrote:
I suppose one could even have a premium service which includes hardcopies of the rules (perhaps lacking the fluff). Or you could still buy the hard copies or have a kind of binder system where the datacards can be put in and out so you can take them to a battle with only the bits you need.

What I would like is cheap softcover. No fluff even better. Gamer's edition! That I wouldn't even mind buying once a year.

That's a really good idea but as it would be cheaper buy, and would detract sales from the more expensive version I don't see GW going for it... unless more people buy codexes overall as a result.


I've actually put some ideas in the other thread that's very similar to this, which I didn't notice was running until just. So if the mods want to close or merge this one I understand.

TarkinLarson wrote:
That's a really good idea but as it would be cheaper buy, and would detract sales from the more expensive version I don't see GW going for it... unless more people buy codexes overall as a result.


I've actually put some ideas in the other thread that's very similar to this, which I didn't notice was running until just. So if the mods want to close or merge this one I understand.

I can see it being done the for the codici already released. After CA 2018 they re-release all codici in a softcover rules only format with the updates from FAQs and CA 2017/2018.

At 10 pounds each they would sell a lot without detracting sales.

Interesting idea, but I don't think it would actually work.

Sure, there are some people who would pay the subscription fee every month. But there are a lot of other players who don't play the game that often, who would unsubscribe when they go into a gaming lull.

There's a psychology to services based businesses, when you stop paying for the service you are unlikely to go back. This is certainly true for digital publishing, you get the idea in your head you're never going to use it so why pay for it again.

I suspect it would be similar for 40k. GW would probably lose money moving over to pure digital.

TarkinLarson wrote:
That's a really good idea but as it would be cheaper buy, and would detract sales from the more expensive version I don't see GW going for it...

This is the argument that continues to frustrate me over and over again. This machoistic idea that we need to keep paying GW cause they want to charge us more is frankly stupid and gets in the way of reasonable discussions of how their business model could improve. The entire premise of your subscription-based argument (if you only own a couple armies) is actually more expensive than just buying a new codex every 2 years.

... unless more people buy codexes overall as a result

And this is what all the economically-ignorant machoistics are missing: that almost every other business uses lower prices to drive sales (even Apple tried with the iPhone 5C). Lowering profit margins reduces the cost per unit to the customer, so the entry cost is lower resulting in more customers AND the existing customers are enticed to buy more volume.

No - it would encorage GW to update less at they get guarenteed monthly income for no work.

If the digital copies were automatically updated I would pay for this without a seconds further thought. Seriously, being able to check the rules for both my and my opponents armies without having to make sure I have the latest FAQ's and that the particular unit/rule I am reading has not been changed by said FAQ would be worth its weight in gold.

I know a lot of people like hard copies and I have nothing against them but having a "definitive" set of rules that everyone *knows* are the current standard would be fantastic. Not to mention being able to look up rules for your opponents armies without having to lug around a library of books.

If you buy a physical copy of the book, you should get a code or something to get a digital version of the book for free. That would be the easiest fix. And the stuff should update for free too, because non of the changes are ever players foult, it is always GW doing something wrong. And if you do a job bad, you have to fix it.

Karol wrote:
If you buy a physical copy of the book, you should get a code or something to get a digital version of the book for free. That would be the easiest fix. And the stuff should update for free too, because non of the changes are ever players foult, it is always GW doing something wrong. And if you do a job bad, you have to fix it.

That's an awesome idea! I like it a lot.

I would support this. I feel this is the future and more and more companies are moving to this, but like all, the implementation is critical.

Specific ways this could help:

- Variable cost units. A great example is a Imperial guard CP relic regen in a Knight army versus in a Guard force. If you have an application that is your rules and army builder, you can make it very easy to have a something cheaper unless its being used in a certain force, and then the cost could be higher. This is already in the works for FFG with Star Wars 2.0
- Much more integration in updates. If it is all contained in an app, all updates are going to be much more wide spread, much quicker, and reduce all confusion.
- Much cheaper for consumers. War Room for PP cost $60 for everything as a one time charge. I would pay $100 for a 1 time charge for the unlimited bundle for 40K. And maybe another $100 for AOS if I ever get into that.
- This will generate more money for GW. I don’t know how many people just pirate the rules and dexs, but a guy I know had the space wolf dex in PDF from a site within 2 hours of release. I suspect it is a lot.
- It would be easier to launch new additions, teaser vids, upsells on new options, add ons like drive apps, and also do things like run world wide campaigns though it very easily. And get lots of information like demographics of play styles, regions, con attendance playing their games, infact that might be enough to make it where they should make the application free.

Karol wrote:
If you buy a physical copy of the book, you should get a code or something to get a digital version of the book for free. That would be the easiest fix. And the stuff should update for free too, because non of the changes are ever players foult, it is always GW doing something wrong. And if you do a job bad, you have to fix it.

I have been for this since digital codexes came out.
I have not bought a digital version of the books for 8th, but I had both versions (paper and .epub) for every book I bought in 7th. The lack of updates on the .epubs put me right off, and the cost to update for the new versions of each army is silly.

It would have to be really cheap to make me buy it. The reason I buy codizes is mainly for the fluff. Rules I could get through other ways and print out.

Fekke no.

I would not; perhaps in earlier versions I might have considered it, but due to edition fatigue, I only own the BRB (actually a purchase I actually regret, prefer just to use the free rules pamphlet I got on launch day), indexes and stratagem cards. (I was gifted the Custodes codex [not something I would have bought on my own] and did buy the Knight index, but my old copy was from the initial launch with all of two datasheets in it)

I wouldn't begrudge others - $.99 USD/month sounds reasonable, so if GW implements it I'd expect it would cost $2.99 USD/month.

ohh look this subject again, it must be a day that ends in Y.

BrianDavion wrote:
ohh look this subject again, it must be a day that ends in Y.

Criticizing a productive conversation for existing isn’t helpful. And for the record this one doesn’t come up as much as your hyperbole would suggest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:
If you buy a physical copy of the book, you should get a code or something to get a digital version of the book for free. That would be the easiest fix. And the stuff should update for free too, because non of the changes are ever players foult, it is always GW doing something wrong. And if you do a job bad, you have to fix it.

Yeah, this would be a solid move!

I don't get why customers buy into the narrative of subscription = better service. Companies offer subscription services to make money. It has nothing to do with customer service or improving a product. If the product is constantly changing, like a football league, then people subscribe to see the progress of the matches but 40k should be a stable product. A BRB and a Codex is all you should need. You'll end up paying MORE over the life if an edition in subscription fees than if you pay for a one off purchase.

Also, people get annoyed when FW rules etc are presented on a phone, imagine if the entire game was on pdf.

Lastly, 9th Age gets flak from large numbers of people because the designers just won't leave it alone. I'd hate to see GW given free rein to adjust stuff in a knee jerk manner. Remember the commissar nerf?

If GW had written a SINGLE rulebook in 30 years that wasn't a pile of hot garbage, maybe.

Did you know only a single rulebook in 8th edition was printed without errors? Did you know their Big Book of Errata had to immediately have errata because they forgot to write the errata rule correctly? GW literally cannot write errata without it needing errata.

And you think people will be willing to pay a SUBSCRIPTION for that?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
If GW had written a SINGLE rulebook in 30 years that wasn't a pile of hot garbage, maybe.

Did you know only a single rulebook in 8th edition was printed without errors? Did you know their Big Book of Errata had to immediately have errata because they forgot to write the errata rule correctly? GW literally cannot write errata without it needing errata.

And you think people will be willing to pay a SUBSCRIPTION for that?

Hear, hear.

building on Banville and BCB's statement, I'm old eneugh to remember video games before the internet, and lemme tell you before then net games where a LOT more stable. you just didn't see as many games that required a day 1 patch just to work right, because the concequences where a LOT higher in that regard as few people would patch games, with the rise of high speed internet, game devs are more likely to rush stuff out the door. if GW did a subscription service the writing quality would go down not up, and they'd approuch things with a "well we can patch that later we need to get it out the door now" menality.

The models, the books, most of what GW sells are ultimately collectors items. This won't happen because GW makes a ton of money from the sales of codexes and I believe there is a massive market to buy hard copies still. I know I prefer to have a physical book in hand.

If they do anything along these lines, I can see them buying or creating an alternative to battle scribe and charging people for access.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The models, the books, most of what GW sells are ultimately collectors items. This won't happen because GW makes a ton of money from the sales of codexes and I believe there is a massive market to buy hard copies still. I know I prefer to have a physical book in hand.

If they do anything along these lines, I can see them buying or creating an alternative to battle scribe and charging people for access.

and when that happens expect the GW legal team to go after Battlescribe hard

BrianDavion wrote:
building on Banville and BCB's statement, I'm old eneugh to remember video games before the internet, and lemme tell you before then net games where a LOT more stable. you just didn't see as many games that required a day 1 patch just to work right, because the concequences where a LOT higher in that regard as few people would patch games, with the rise of high speed internet, game devs are more likely to rush stuff out the door. if GW did a subscription service the writing quality would go down not up, and they'd approuch things with a "well we can patch that later we need to get it out the door now" menality.

Not to put a damper on that, but that's a false equivalency. Games from the pre-internet era (i'd say Playstation 1 era and before) were a lot simpler than they are now. It was feasible to test extensively before making the physical media. It's simply impossible to hire enough people to test "big budget" games now.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
building on Banville and BCB's statement, I'm old eneugh to remember video games before the internet, and lemme tell you before then net games where a LOT more stable. you just didn't see as many games that required a day 1 patch just to work right, because the concequences where a LOT higher in that regard as few people would patch games, with the rise of high speed internet, game devs are more likely to rush stuff out the door. if GW did a subscription service the writing quality would go down not up, and they'd approuch things with a "well we can patch that later we need to get it out the door now" menality.

Not to put a damper on that, but that's a false equivalency. Games from the pre-internet era (i'd say Playstation 1 era and before) were a lot simpler than they are now. It was feasible to test extensively before making the physical media. It's simply impossible to hire enough people to test "big budget" games now.

But it is eminently possible to play test 40k. Or even proof read it, for goodness sake. There shouldn't be any need for any table top game to go subscription.

Once again, companies don't charge subscription for any other reason than to make money. Exactly as was said above, you rush the product out with as little development time and money spent as possible and then you patch it as you go. The customer plays the role of pkaytester/bug catcher and actually PAYS THE COMPANY for this privilege.

Are people genuinely blind to this stuff?

Also, imagine the arguments. 'My Russ rolls forward 4", so can fire twice with its cannon, okay?'

'Sorry, pal. You must have missed last night's update'. Etc etc.

A tabletop game is a social, face to face experience. Unless you can ensure every player is notified and automatically updated on every patch and fix, it's not going to fly.

Banville wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
building on Banville and BCB's statement, I'm old eneugh to remember video games before the internet, and lemme tell you before then net games where a LOT more stable. you just didn't see as many games that required a day 1 patch just to work right, because the concequences where a LOT higher in that regard as few people would patch games, with the rise of high speed internet, game devs are more likely to rush stuff out the door. if GW did a subscription service the writing quality would go down not up, and they'd approuch things with a "well we can patch that later we need to get it out the door now" menality.

Not to put a damper on that, but that's a false equivalency. Games from the pre-internet era (i'd say Playstation 1 era and before) were a lot simpler than they are now. It was feasible to test extensively before making the physical media. It's simply impossible to hire enough people to test "big budget" games now.

But it is eminently possible to play test 40k. Or even proof read it, for goodness sake. There shouldn't be any need for any table top game to go subscription.

Once again, companies don't charge subscription for any other reason than to make money. Exactly as was said above, you rush the product out with as little development time and money spent as possible and then you patch it as you go. The customer plays the role of pkaytester/bug catcher and actually PAYS THE COMPANY for this privilege.

Are people genuinely blind to this stuff?

heck no, hell GW's hardly the worst for this, I know some game companies PDF release months before hand, and then basicly errata the digital copy a time or two before print release, course this means people who like the dead tree format of the book often ended up buying twice.

The answer is no. Stop asking.