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I think GW is more concerned that if they release something with too much of a discount, the stock gets snapped up by 3rd party sellers who then market it on against for a reasonable price but with profit that doesn't go to GW. They don't seem to be hurting for sales on anything so there is little incentive for GW to lower the prices on their luxury hobby materials.

Lord_Zaherial wrote:
GW has never grasped the concept of a loss leader EVER!!! I wish they would learn the concept of pinning the ears back of the people that support them financially year in and year out... after over 30+ yrs I am more than disappointed in GW on this pricing!

except thats not true, their boxed sets are ALWAYS great discounts. the GME has a 150-200 dollar discount vs buying everything seperately.

it's still expensive but that doesn't mean it's not a loss leader. Thing is you can only do so much of that if you wanna sell the rest seperately. no one would buy a reaver if you could get a pair of warlords in a GME for 200 bucks

BrianDavion wrote:

Lord_Zaherial wrote:
GW has never grasped the concept of a loss leader EVER!!! I wish they would learn the concept of pinning the ears back of the people that support them financially year in and year out... after over 30+ yrs I am more than disappointed in GW on this pricing!

except thats not true, their boxed sets are ALWAYS great discounts. the GME has a 150-200 dollar discount vs buying everything seperately.

it's still expensive but that doesn't mean it's not a loss leader. Thing is you can only do so much of that if you wanna sell the rest seperately. no one would buy a reaver if you could get a pair of warlords in a GME for 200 bucks

It's got some loss built in. At least USD price wise, you pay for the Titans and Knights but get 2 sets of terrain for free and a free rules kit.

That's decent loss right there. Three boxes of things given in discount. It's just the fact that they are giving the biggest baddest models to you first that hurts but it's good because as I said it's 2/3rd a full Maniple. So for just 350 USD you have a tournament legal army. (that's just one Reaver on top the GME)

I am pretty sure you can't play in a 40k tournament on $350 of models

Also they are doing Warhammer Conquest magazine in the UK (with views to wanting to take it to other countries) which is certainly a loss leader product.

Thing is not every game GW makes is going to work with a loss-leader. 40K works; but AT is not the kind of product that can work like that. There's too few products and its too new to make it a viable strategy. Plus don't forget they are not Tescos - they can't just totally write off huge blocks of loss-leader products to get people in the stores because chances are most people only go in for one, maybe two items at a time anyway from the model line - more in paints and accessories; but in general few people are going to walk into a GW store after 1 loss-leader product and then buy 5 or 6 other products.

Superstores have loss leaders partly because they know if they get you in the store they can sell you a dozens to hundreds of other things; heck it might even be enough to get you to spend your weekly shopping there instead of in another store.

 Lysenis wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
We need a “Start Collecting” Titanicus - One Reaver, Two Warhounds + Knights in a box.

Thats a base price that will be roughly $165 and still no rules. Its a good set and you could discount it to maybe $130 maybe 140 to not totally lose out on the knights.

The only issue is that all you can play is a Venator list at that point and having placed the Warlord in the GME they made it FAR more likely you can run all 3 base Maniples with just buying the reaver and warhounds which most people would do because the Warlords ARE expensive.

I was thinking about $130, with the knights coming out to be “free”*; maybe a Reaver + Knights to get it down to about $85. It’s an idea for a Start Collecting. Nothing to do with whether you can run a complete army. SC is designed to give you a starting point - some models to push around and incentive to grow your army. The main idea is to put forth a package that makes folks go “Hey, that’s not a bad price, I can afford that!”.

* Perhaps Reaver + 2 Warhounds + Knights could be a $130 Starter set like the mid-range No Fear/Tempest of Souls starters. Especially if it included a stripped down, non-hardback rules and cardboard counters & terminals instead of the plastic & punchboard versions in the GME.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Lysenis wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
We need a “Start Collecting” Titanicus - One Reaver, Two Warhounds + Knights in a box.

Thats a base price that will be roughly $165 and still no rules. Its a good set and you could discount it to maybe $130 maybe 140 to not totally lose out on the knights.

The only issue is that all you can play is a Venator list at that point and having placed the Warlord in the GME they made it FAR more likely you can run all 3 base Maniples with just buying the reaver and warhounds which most people would do because the Warlords ARE expensive.

I was thinking about $130, with the knights coming out to be “free”*; maybe a Reaver + Knights to get it down to about $85. It’s an idea for a Start Collecting. Nothing to do with whether you can run a complete army. SC is designed to give you a starting point - some models to push around and incentive to grow your army. The main idea is to put forth a package that makes folks go “Hey, that’s not a bad price, I can afford that!”.

* Perhaps Reaver + 2 Warhounds + Knights could be a $130 Starter set like the mid-range No Fear/Tempest of Souls starters. Especially if it included a stripped down, non-hardback rules and cardboard counters & terminals instead of the plastic & punchboard versions in the GME.

The issue I think you see and Override pointed this out, this is basically a brand new game with no set excess. Kill Teams has excess because you can use many models from your normal collection or add those models to a 40k game. Bloodbowl has Fantasy models, Necromunda is not set up as a get started because there is not much expansion for it.

Titanicus is its own scale and game which means its going to behave differently in sales.

Thing is AT has 4 models to generate profit from. Just 4 products. That's a very small number and many of them are small number purchases too. You won't typically need 10 boxes of knights or 10 warlords. Heck GW even put magnet slots into the Warlord arms; they already know Warlords are going to be few per player even for the very keen.

Give AT 5-10 years and its range will broaden out, but right now it is where it is. Plus considering its outsold GW's estimations so fast I'd say their plan has more than worked at a global scale.

 Overread wrote:
Thing is AT has 4 models to generate profit from. Just 4 products. That's a very small number and many of them are small number purchases too. You won't typically need 10 boxes of knights or 10 warlords. Heck GW even put magnet slots into the Warlord arms; they already know Warlords are going to be few per player even for the very keen.

Give AT 5-10 years and its range will broaden out, but right now it is where it is. Plus considering its outsold GW's estimations so fast I'd say their plan has more than worked at a global scale.

Where are we seeing sales to expectations?

 Lysenis wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Thing is AT has 4 models to generate profit from. Just 4 products. That's a very small number and many of them are small number purchases too. You won't typically need 10 boxes of knights or 10 warlords. Heck GW even put magnet slots into the Warlord arms; they already know Warlords are going to be few per player even for the very keen.

Give AT 5-10 years and its range will broaden out, but right now it is where it is. Plus considering its outsold GW's estimations so fast I'd say their plan has more than worked at a global scale.

Where are we seeing sales to expectations?

Mostly on the boxed set being sold out at most places. GW even recalled their store stock in the UK so that the main GW site had stock and some for events. To me that suggests that the most expensive, the biggest sticker-shock item sold out at a rate that either just as GW planned or way above what they expected. And that was the most expensive single purchase which contained nothing unique to it - its only feature was a free Warlord in savings.
Being their most expensive boxed set to date and being it sold out in a couple of days I think that its a sign that it sold more powerfully than expected and hoped.

 Lysenis wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
The fact the models come alongside one of the most crunchy and tactically engaging games GW have put out since Battlefleet Gothic in the late 90's is icing on the cake.

I would suggest that it's worth getting your local shop to reconsider, they're missing out on an excellent game with genuinely fantastic models(the detail on the Knights is ridiculous considering their size) for reasons that aren't really accurate.

This. 100% this.

The game is fantastic. The I go and you go play, the arcs, the movement and multitude of tactical decisions... Yea. It's a crunchy game that will have a Knight Household book, likely an Militarum book, and several campaign books.

This is where I have an issue with pretty much everything that goes on at my local GW. I'm not sure why they are so picky there, but they are. Maybe gamers are that way at every store. Anyway, Necromunda was truly an epic fail at the store I go to. NO ONE was interested in it. The store carries zero Necromunda Starter Boxes and zero Necromunda Gangs (not sure about the Gang War books). So, let's say I try to pick up the game at another store or drop the money to buy it online. To get people truly excited about the game would require buying the core box, all four Gang War books, more than just the base two gangs so they can get a feel for what all is available to them, and most of all time... lots of time spent at the store trying to get people to play the game, teaching them the basics of both the game and gang they are using, and being patient as they learn a new game system.

To top *all* of that off, there still may not be enough people interested in the game and therefore all that money is a waste unless I can find an FLGS that has a group with a lot of interest in Necromunda.

So, we're talking:

Core Game - $125USD
Gang War - $30USD
Gang War 2 - $30USD
Gang War 3 - $30USD
Gang War 4 - $30USD
Additional Gang - $40USD

Total - $285USD

Time - Whatever time is necessary to assemble all three gangs and terrain along with painting all three gangs and terrain. And, that would mean spending A LOT of what limited time I have outside of work away from my wife and two year old son just to attempt to get this game going at my local GW.

Building interest in a newer tabletop game at a GW or LGS where it completely failed the first time takes an incredibly large investment in money and time. And, even with that large investment in money and time, there's no guarantee that enough or any gamers at your GW or LGS will become interested enough to put their money and time into the game.

Asking a local store's gamers to reconsider... yeah, I hate to be the realist (or some people may see it as pessimist) here, but unless you honestly have the large amount of money and time to invest and won't be upset or down if it doesn't catch on, it's probably not worth it.

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Lysenis wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
The fact the models come alongside one of the most crunchy and tactically engaging games GW have put out since Battlefleet Gothic in the late 90's is icing on the cake.

I would suggest that it's worth getting your local shop to reconsider, they're missing out on an excellent game with genuinely fantastic models(the detail on the Knights is ridiculous considering their size) for reasons that aren't really accurate.

This. 100% this.

The game is fantastic. The I go and you go play, the arcs, the movement and multitude of tactical decisions... Yea. It's a crunchy game that will have a Knight Household book, likely an Militarum book, and several campaign books.

This is where I have an issue with pretty much everything that goes on at my local GW. I'm not sure why they are so picky there, but they are. Maybe gamers are that way at every store. Anyway, Necromunda was truly an epic fail at the store I go to. NO ONE was interested in it. The store carries zero Necromunda Starter Boxes and zero Necromunda Gangs (not sure about the Gang War books). So, let's say I try to pick up the game at another store or drop the money to buy it online. To get people truly excited about the game would require buying the core box, all four Gang War books, more than just the base two gangs so they can get a feel for what all is available to them, and most of all time... lots of time spent at the store trying to get people to play the game, teaching them the basics of both the game and gang they are using, and being patient as they learn a new game system.

To top *all* of that off, there still may not be enough people interested in the game and therefore all that money is a waste unless I can find an FLGS that has a group with a lot of interest in Necromunda.

So, we're talking:

Core Game - $125USD
Gang War - $30USD
Gang War 2 - $30USD
Gang War 3 - $30USD
Gang War 4 - $30USD
Additional Gang - $40USD

Total - $285USD

Time - Whatever time is necessary to assemble all three gangs and terrain along with painting all three gangs and terrain. And, that would mean spending A LOT of what limited time I have outside of work away from my wife and two year old son just to attempt to get this game going at my local GW.

Building interest in a newer tabletop game at a GW or LGS where it completely failed the first time takes an incredibly large investment in money and time. And, even with that large investment in money and time, there's no guarantee that enough or any gamers at your GW or LGS will become interested enough to put their money and time into the game.

Asking a local store's gamers to reconsider... yeah, I hate to be the realist (or some people may see it as pessimist) here, but unless you honestly have the large amount of money and time to invest and won't be upset or down if it doesn't catch on, it's probably not worth it.

SG

This is going to come off harsh no matter what way I say it so I will be blunt. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. I have the same sort of experience but I have taken games like Dropzone Commander, Dropfleet Commander, SW Armada and even 40k which in my flgs was DEAD!!! and I revived them and Brought them back.

Its not easy, it takes work and my FLGS gives me one HELL of a discount which makes this worthwhile but ultimately its anecdotal. Its all based on the players themselves wanting to play the game and if they want to play they will buy. People spend FAR MORE on a 40k army than they will on a AT18 army and that can even include all models needed for every current maniple.

There is a large investment in time and money but if you are going to be building and painting, doing so at the FLGS is the same as drawing interest. People love to see new things and a demo here and there. Always a good time.

 Lysenis wrote:
This is going to come off harsh no matter what way I say it so I will be blunt. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. I have the same sort of experience but I have taken games like Dropzone Commander, Dropfleet Commander, SW Armada and even 40k which in my flgs was DEAD!!! and I revived them and Brought them back.

Its not easy, it takes work and my FLGS gives me one HELL of a discount which makes this worthwhile but ultimately its anecdotal. Its all based on the players themselves wanting to play the game and if they want to play they will buy. People spend FAR MORE on a 40k army than they will on a AT18 army and that can even include all models needed for every current maniple.

There is a large investment in time and money but if you are going to be building and painting, doing so at the FLGS is the same as drawing interest. People love to see new things and a demo here and there. Always a good time.

WOW! That was super harsh. Totally kidding. You honestly didn't come across as harsh at all, and you have some good points. There are a few things I want to throw out there, though.

First of all, I have about 30 minutes per day (on a good week) for assembling and painting. Right now, my stepson is going through the terrible twos, and my wife and I are doing our best to try to figure out how to work through these situations properly. So, the time that I could spend modeling or painting on any given night or series of nights might be spent talking with her instead... just trying to figure out what to do in which situations. I have zero problem with that as my wife and my son mean way, way, way more to me than any piece of plastic. They will always come first.

Secondly, the two FLGS are about 30 to 45 minutes away when traffic is agreeing. Probably closer to 45 minutes to an hour if traffic isn't agreeing. I can see how assembling and painting in the stores would be a good way to attract attention to something new. That's actually very good advice. But, if I have to drive 45+ minutes to get to my GW (used to live about five minutes away but recently moved when I got married) or about an hour to get to the other FLGS, I need to get my money's worth per se. Like if I'm going to burn that much gas and spend that much time, I need to be able to stay there for three or four hours. And, that's not overly easy to schedule. If my wife happens to want to go shopping near either store, then it might be easier. But, otherwise, it means being away from the house for 5 to 6 hours (two of which are most likely driving).

Thirdly, if I help the manager at my local GW start selling a lot of Necromunda core sets or Necromunda gangs, that's great for him. It means that I have more people who will want to play Necromunda when I have the time to play. But, that's all I'm going to get out of it. Lots of money, lots of time, and all I'd get would be additional people to play against. I'd have to turn the demoing of the game and getting people excited over to someone else as soon as is possible so I can get back to my family. And GW never, ever, ever gives discounts on anything. I know non-GW stores can take I believe up to 15% off MSRP if they choose to. But, GW stores won't. The GW is much closer, and I know more people there already. So, I get no discount, no kickbacks of any kind, no free stuff, nothing. The only thing I'd gain by making Necromunda bigger at my local GW is a larger pool of people to play against.

Unfortunately, there just aren't any positive reasons for me to drop $300+ (would probably buy all gangs for Necromunda) and spend so much time only to have more people to play against.

SG

Service - honestly I'd find a second person to help you push the game so that $300 turns into $150. And yes you are right the only bonus to you is more players; but that's not quite all. More players means more games, it means others running events, it means models in the local second hand pool, it means conversions and painting and all kinds of other things going on.

Plus if you extrapolate out more players at the local level builds into the players at the national and international scene. that means more chance of GW keeping the game going and releasing more stuff for it. Sure your club has 0 statistical impact on its own; but when added to all the others it has all the power.


That said it sounds like its just not time for you do be devoting that much energy to something like this with your family coming first and being at a busy time. Even if GW were giving you 50% off chances are time would still be an issue for you. Plus you'd likely not want the added stress of managing the local hobby scene and attracting players ontop of work and home stresses .

 Overread wrote:
Service - honestly I'd find a second person to help you push the game so that $300 turns into $150. And yes you are right the only bonus to you is more players; but that's not quite all. More players means more games, it means others running events, it means models in the local second hand pool, it means conversions and painting and all kinds of other things going on.

I can't disagree with a lot of what you are saying. Again, you make some great points. But, the idea of buying where you play... it kinda hits home here. If I were at an FLGS, probably wouldn't be that big of a deal. But, in the fairly small community at my local GW, not buying any of my models there would most definitely be picked up on by the manager and probably not looked upon kindly. Would he understand? On a personal level, sure he would. Would he like me taking money away from his store? Not at all. Has he ever fussed at anyone for buying on the second hand market and bringing it into the store? Not that I am aware of. Still, if I want that GW to stay in business, then it's best to buy GW products from that GW. So, the second hand market that would be created unfortunately wouldn't help me. The other FLGS has so many other things (Comics, Gundam models, Flames of War, Warmachine/Hordes, and so much more) to help keep them in business that I really don't think they'd care of they saw me come in with a chuck of money in models that didn't come from their store.

 Overread wrote:
That said it sounds like its just not time for you do be devoting that much energy to something like this with your family coming first and being at a busy time. Even if GW were giving you 50% off chances are time would still be an issue for you. Plus you'd likely not want the added stress of managing the local hobby scene and attracting players ontop of work and home stresses .

You are 100% correct on this one. It's definitely not the time for me to even attempt to try to do something like this. Maye 5 to 8 years down the road when my stepson is old enough to not only understand how to build and paint but appreciate the money and time that goes into the models, I can bring him with me, and he and I can start building interest in a certain game that we both enjoy that just didn't take off somewhere.

In the end, I guess what bothers me is that, besides Kill Team (which seems to be fairly popular right now), there is maybe one other Skirmish game played at my local GW. And, that is Shadespire. No Necromunda, no AoS Skirmish, nothing. And, that GW is just barely out of my way on the drive home from work. It'd be so easy to drop by there and get one game in before going home.

There may be some more Skirmish-type tabletop games played at the other FLGS like Company of Iron... just really wish Privateer Press would get into the plastic age and get away from metal models. Having any metal models that have any amount of lead in them, regardless of how much, around a two year old just isn't a good idea. And, that FLGS is nowhere near work or home, so a trip to play a game there would have to be a special trip (maybe once per month or once every two months).

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
WOW! That was super harsh. Totally kidding. You honestly didn't come across as harsh at all, and you have some good points. There are a few things I want to throw out there, though.

First of all, I have about 30 minutes per day (on a good week) for assembling and painting. Right now, my stepson is going through the terrible twos, and my wife and I are doing our best to try to figure out how to work through these situations properly. So, the time that I could spend modeling or painting on any given night or series of nights might be spent talking with her instead... just trying to figure out what to do in which situations. I have zero problem with that as my wife and my son mean way, way, way more to me than any piece of plastic. They will always come first.

Secondly, the two FLGS are about 30 to 45 minutes away when traffic is agreeing. Probably closer to 45 minutes to an hour if traffic isn't agreeing. I can see how assembling and painting in the stores would be a good way to attract attention to something new. That's actually very good advice. But, if I have to drive 45+ minutes to get to my GW (used to live about five minutes away but recently moved when I got married) or about an hour to get to the other FLGS, I need to get my money's worth per se. Like if I'm going to burn that much gas and spend that much time, I need to be able to stay there for three or four hours. And, that's not overly easy to schedule. If my wife happens to want to go shopping near either store, then it might be easier. But, otherwise, it means being away from the house for 5 to 6 hours (two of which are most likely driving).

Thirdly, if I help the manager at my local GW start selling a lot of Necromunda core sets or Necromunda gangs, that's great for him. It means that I have more people who will want to play Necromunda when I have the time to play. But, that's all I'm going to get out of it. Lots of money, lots of time, and all I'd get would be additional people to play against. I'd have to turn the demoing of the game and getting people excited over to someone else as soon as is possible so I can get back to my family. And GW never, ever, ever gives discounts on anything. I know non-GW stores can take I believe up to 15% off MSRP if they choose to. But, GW stores won't. The GW is much closer, and I know more people there already. So, I get no discount, no kickbacks of any kind, no free stuff, nothing. The only thing I'd gain by making Necromunda bigger at my local GW is a larger pool of people to play against.

Unfortunately, there just aren't any positive reasons for me to drop $300+ (would probably buy all gangs for Necromunda) and spend so much time only to have more people to play against.

SG

I can't argue there. Like I said my store gives discounts to their volunteers because they know they are spending that time and money. Maybe you can work a deal with your FLGS. Just start with a base set. See if you can run a demo day (even around the munchkins inquisitive desires)

Now I live in Portland Oregon where we have about 7 games stores in a 20ish mile radius or less so I know I am spoiled.

Still, if you can make the time or work something out it can be fruitful.

Building a community is also great on resumes and is fun but you have to have the desire to do the sale. The excitement needs to be genuine.

Wait, no non-Imperial Titans? Yeah, hard pass.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Wait, no non-Imperial Titans? Yeah, hard pass.

the plan is to get the game eistablished first and then expand into Xenos Titans at a later time.

BrianDavion wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Wait, no non-Imperial Titans? Yeah, hard pass.

the plan is to get the game eistablished first and then expand into Xenos Titans at a later time.

Establish game get base. Expand game to other races. Expand game to Epic Armageddon.

To do that you need money, a game that sells, and a community. A company isnt going to spend tons of money on r&d and production just to have it potentially fail. Thats a lot of R&D time and spure presses to make

Yeah, but a game with NOTHING but Imperials isn't a game. If the boxed game were Imperial vs Chaos Knights, with a full rulebook that covers Orks and Eldar, a la BFG, that would have been a great start. But only releasing 1 faction isn't going to work, especially if it's going to be more than a few months before the Orks and Eldar hit the tabletop.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, but a game with NOTHING but Imperials isn't a game. If the boxed game were Imperial vs Chaos Knights, with a full rulebook that covers Orks and Eldar, a la BFG, that would have been a great start. But only releasing 1 faction isn't going to work, especially if it's going to be more than a few months before the Orks and Eldar hit the tabletop.

Well. It worked before so it can work now. There would never ever ever have been eldar and ork titans if the release pattern couldn't work.

It worked fantastic for BFG, but that's not what we have here.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, but a game with NOTHING but Imperials isn't a game. If the boxed game were Imperial vs Chaos Knights, with a full rulebook that covers Orks and Eldar, a la BFG, that would have been a great start. But only releasing 1 faction isn't going to work, especially if it's going to be more than a few months before the Orks and Eldar hit the tabletop.

Play the game before you say that. There is enough in the base game that it is a crunchy affair that has a lot of flexibility and fun. Hmmm I actually show this in lists I designed for just the different maniples

https://opustitanicus.wordpress.com/2018/09/02/venator-maniple-list-variety/

A game requires flexibility and the ability for tactics to work. Factions can be added if the base game works but if that base game does not work then the amount of factions will never matter.

Basically think of it as the test of the game itself. If on its own with just the same units you get a diverse game with many possibilities and no set meta then you have a great platform to use as your base. I

If it's just a test, it should be a hell of a lot cheaper

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If it's just a test, it should be a hell of a lot cheaper

Thus one reason why they need to due the test. The Warlords are nearly the size of a knight and are more pieces than a knight. Yet cheaper than a knight.

You say cheaper I say its relative and the point of the test is to see what level of market this game will have. If you are going to hard pass without even trying the game then its likely not for you in any time. Its not a game that you just collect every army or the factions you like above others. This is designed as a game for campaigns, interactive, Armageddon, and some tournament play.

I suggest trying the game before rejecting it.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, but a game with NOTHING but Imperials isn't a game

Yes, yes it is. What a foolish statement to make that is completely and irrevocably false. Just because it is something that you don't want doesn't mean it is not a game. It is Imperials vs Traitors. IF it goes well GW may well expand into other races as some staff have said at events

Whilst the Imperium has a lot of titan classes (that we know of as opposed to many Xeno where we just know less) I'd wager it won't be long before we see Chaos Titans. GW will probably narrate their exposure so we'll start off with corrupted vrsions of current titans and build into more and more warped creations

I picked up the rules pack and will slowly be painting a Manilple.
The thing is, I find it appealing with a small selection of models and only a handful needed to play.

This makes it easy to get into and new players can avoid the bloat most game systems have.
It's crunchy and has a solid base.

So GW has actually made collecting and building a force easy and relatively cheap. I couldn't afford the GM. But the game isn't that expensive to get a complete force for right now.

Those complaning vehemently about the sticker shock have plenty of options to spread out the cost. It's what I'm doing.

 Ghool wrote:
I picked up the rules pack and will slowly be painting a Manilple.
The thing is, I find it appealing with a small selection of models and only a handful needed to play.

This makes it easy to get into and new players can avoid the bloat most game systems have.
It's crunchy and has a solid base.

So GW has actually made collecting and building a force easy and relatively cheap. I couldn't afford the GM. But the game isn't that expensive to get a complete force for right now.

Those complaning vehemently about the sticker shock have plenty of options to spread out the cost. It's what I'm doing.

Exactly this! I was contemplating giving AOS another chance (Die hard Fantasy Fan) and took one look at the amount of factions and just gave up trying to work out how my classic army actually fits into any of it.

 Lysenis wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If it's just a test, it should be a hell of a lot cheaper

I suggest trying the game before rejecting it.

I own the 28mm Imperial Knights: Renegade game and a couple of Knights (Eldar & Imperial), so what could AT possibly do better than the game I already own?

I'm not spending GW money on a 'test" game that I flat out don't need; however, if someone wants to send me a review copy, I'll be happy to give it a spin.

But hey, if it floats your boat, more power to ya!

Half the people at GW Springfield in Virginia bought it.

If you don't like AT don't buy it. I'm at like 7 models so far not including knights. Can't wait for the warhounds.