Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I couldn't find a thread on this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/30/breaking-previews-and-reveals-from-novagw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like Sisters of battle will be a full beta codex in Chapter approve 2018... I'm not sure how I feel about this... I like the idea of getting to do a full beta test but I'm worried that this will take most of the page allotment for the book and we will have less content like new scenarios/new rules for other faction.

I'm curious what everyone elses thoughts are.

Flamephoenix182 wrote:
I couldn't find a thread on this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/30/breaking-previews-and-reveals-from-novagw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like Sisters of battle will be a full beta codex in Chapter approve 2018... I'm not sure how I feel about this... I like the idea of getting to do a full beta test but I'm worried that this will take most of the page allotment for the book and we will have less content like new scenarios/new rules for other faction.

I'm curious what everyone elses thoughts are.

Rules don't take up the entirety of a codex and likewise won't take up most of the book. Especially since it's likely the Sisters update will look a lot like the initial Primaris release: a unit for each slot.

It may just be a bigger book. In which case I'd expect they'd charge us more for it instead of absorbing the extra costs themselves.

Flamephoenix182 wrote:
I couldn't find a thread on this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/30/breaking-previews-and-reveals-from-novagw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like Sisters of battle will be a full beta codex in Chapter approve 2018... I'm not sure how I feel about this... I like the idea of getting to do a full beta test but I'm worried that this will take most of the page allotment for the book and we will have less content like new scenarios/new rules for other faction.

I'm curious what everyone elses thoughts are.

I am highly curious whether they'll 'tip their hand' so to speak on units that don't yet exist, or if the new release will be a total rehash of the current sisters lineup.

I feel like the reasoning behind not producing models - one element of the chapterhouse debacle essentially opening GW up to third party mini-makers coming out with their own bootleg versions of models Games Workshop has rules for but not models - might not be as much of an issue if the models are in the pipeline, actively being worked on as a big project, and I doubt any bootlegger would be able to get, say, a sisters biker unit or an alternate penitent engine loadout out of the gate before games workshop could at least produce previews.

The other way that GW compounded the issue was they used to release art that bootleggers would then ape - there were plenty of lookalike Wazdakka Gutsmeks or Old Zogwarts on the internet because the art for them was in the books, so you know what to look for when a third party mini maker produces "SNAKE THEMED OROK SHAMAN WITH FUTURISTIC EYEBALL." Release the sisters beta rules with absolutely no indication of what a "flame gauntlet" or a "Holy crossblade" looks like, and it wouldn't be nearly as easy to slap together a knockoff in the time before GW releases the official product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IronBrand wrote:
It may just be a bigger book. In which case I'd expect they'd charge us more for it instead of absorbing the extra costs themselves.

This, I think, is the safest bet.

Boy I hope the small fraction of people who aren't mad about paying for a rules errata also aren't mad about that rules errata coming packaged with a codex for an army they statistically are very unlikely to play...

 IronBrand wrote:
It may just be a bigger book. In which case I'd expect they'd charge us more for it instead of absorbing the extra costs themselves.

Perhaps, I know when some of the smaller developpers are putting out books and talking about their process, they often cite page number limitations as a reason why they had to drop content from books... but maybe GW being a bigger company doesn't have to worry about that as much

Flamephoenix182 wrote:

 IronBrand wrote:
It may just be a bigger book. In which case I'd expect they'd charge us more for it instead of absorbing the extra costs themselves.

Perhaps, I know when some of the smaller developpers are putting out books and talking about their process, they often cite page number limitations as a reason why they had to drop content from books... but maybe GW being a bigger company doesn't have to worry about that as much

That is most likely due to them wanting all the books to cost the same so they don't have each book with different pricing. GW could in theory absorb all the costs but likely won't as evident by the space marine codex costing more.

Ideally they'd release the chapter approved with the beta sisters codex included without extra cost while also releasing updated plastic kits for the existing sisters line to go along with it. Then releasing the new sisters stuff with the new codex. This should have the effect of increased sales on sisters product with people buying a few units to try out because they already have the codex and they want to check out what people have been wanting for 20 years. Which would also make it easier to jump into the army when the full codex launches because "hey, I've already got a few squads, may as well start a full army". The sales boost from the sisters kits if they do it like this should more than cover any potential losses on having extra pages in chapter approved.

SOB rules will only take up 6-7 pages max (tho i think it will be 3-4 pages as i "think" they will say use the index datasheets and the will only have Relics/Army rules/AOF/point changes/Stratagems).

Flamephoenix182 wrote:
I couldn't find a thread on this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/30/breaking-previews-and-reveals-from-novagw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like Sisters of battle will be a full beta codex in Chapter approve 2018... I'm not sure how I feel about this... I like the idea of getting to do a full beta test but I'm worried that this will take most of the page allotment for the book and we will have less content like new scenarios/new rules for other faction.

I'm curious what everyone elses thoughts are.

We had the special Land Raider rules for just Marines last time and I doubt it really will take up that much more room. That section alone was 8 pages plus we had a page each for all the Factions without dexes so there is more than enough room for the Sisters dex and loads of other stuff.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
SOB rules will only take up 6-7 pages max (tho i think it will be 3-4 pages as i "think" they will say use the index datasheets and the will only have Relics/Army rules/AOF/point changes/Stratagems).

There's NO possible way they'll use the same datasheets. Several SoB units need ground up redesigns, dominions will hopefully be broken up into 2 or 3 datasheets(one per weapon option) to help bypass the rule of 3 and they will ABSOLUTELY include new weapons/wargear options for basically every unit in the codex so that old grognards HAVE to buy new stuff if they want to use all the cool toys. Even if the new weapon options don't show up in the CA, they'll likely still have changed most of the warscrolls in some way or another to account for the new stuff, or just rewrite rules. Scout for example, still doesn't clearly state whether it goes before or after Seize(this might have been FAQed but even then it'd be nice to add it to the warscrolls) you also have the goofy wording on the Seraphim's reroll save ability.

Assuming they include all currently available units and only currently available units at 2 datasheets per page the codex rules will be between 10-15 pages.

My one hope is that they don't change Celestine too much. The knee-jerk is going to be to nerf her, but she's not really that common of a soup choice anymore and she's also pretty well balanced in an actual SoB army. It's in soup lists, or as a single outrider that she can get a little intense.

(side bar: I know it's pedantic, but we've actually known about the chapter approved dex since adepticon.)

ERJAK wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
SOB rules will only take up 6-7 pages max (tho i think it will be 3-4 pages as i "think" they will say use the index datasheets and the will only have Relics/Army rules/AOF/point changes/Stratagems).

There's NO possible way they'll use the same datasheets. Several SoB units need ground up redesigns, dominions will hopefully be broken up into 2 or 3 datasheets(one per weapon option) to help bypass the rule of 3 and they will ABSOLUTELY include new weapon/wargear options for basically every unit in the codex so that old grognards HAVE to buy new stuff if they want to use all the cool toys.

Assuming they include all currently available units and only currently available units at 2 datasheets per page the codex rules will be between 10-15 pages.

(side bar: I know it's pedantic, but we've actually known about the chapter approved dex since adepticon.)

Don't expect too much at first. These are rough draft beta rules using mass community feedback. They're likely going to be simple, rough and hilariously broken in places.

Flamephoenix182 wrote:
'm not sure how I feel about this... I like the idea of getting to do a full beta test but I'm worried that this will take most of the page allotment for the book and we will have less content like new scenarios/new rules for other faction.

I'm curious what everyone elses thoughts are.

I think that no one bar anyone sitting on a squat army deserves this more than sisters. I'm also all for HUGE ENOURMOUS POSITIVE encouragement for GW to open up their game design to public beta testing. Imagine a future where armies get released and player feedback is taken for months leading upto the army being actually collated together?! things might start to deviate towards ballance when the horde can break them.

TBH, boo-fething-who if theres less 'toys' for everyone else.

Flamephoenix182 wrote:
I couldn't find a thread on this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/30/breaking-previews-and-reveals-from-novagw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like Sisters of battle will be a full beta codex in Chapter approve 2018... I'm not sure how I feel about this... I like the idea of getting to do a full beta test but I'm worried that this will take most of the page allotment for the book and we will have less content like new scenarios/new rules for other faction.

I'm curious what everyone elses thoughts are.

Sounds like another minor update 5E minidex. I expect that means we will see little/no new stuff or serious updates.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but that would be my guess.

 davou wrote:

Flamephoenix182 wrote:
'm not sure how I feel about this... I like the idea of getting to do a full beta test but I'm worried that this will take most of the page allotment for the book and we will have less content like new scenarios/new rules for other faction.

I'm curious what everyone elses thoughts are.

I think that no one bar anyone sitting on a squat army deserves this more than sisters. I'm also all for HUGE ENOURMOUS POSITIVE encouragement for GW to open up their game design to public beta testing. Imagine a future where armies get released and player feedback is taken for months leading upto the army being actually collated together?! things might start to deviate towards ballance when the horde can break them.

TBH, boo-fething-who if theres less 'toys' for everyone else.

Don't get me wrong. I love sisters and they badly need an update so I'm happy. It's more taking up space in a paid book for rules that are guaranteed to be obsolete in a couple months after they are out.
After thinking about it more I think the issue that is bothering me is tying it to a print book, rather than releasing the sisters beta test as separate pdf will make it impossible for them to do iterative updates which would be required for a proper beta test. Since they really need to release the rules, get data, modify the rules and repeat this cycle several times for it to be meaningful...
I mean that's what every other beta test be it other minis games, video games or rpgs do.

Wishlisting thread? Wishlisting thread.

So what do you guys think will be the first models to come out with Sisters? Obviously a Battle sister box, maybe a repackaged rhino with upgrade sprue, but do you guys think Repressor/Immolator box might be in order?

What stratagems would you guys like to see? Warlord Traits? Possibly relics? Hell, chapter tactics?

Sisters have been an army I've always wanted to collect and play, but the old minis and inconsistent codices always put me off. I am very excited for next year =p

Flamephoenix182 wrote:

 davou wrote:

Flamephoenix182 wrote:
'm not sure how I feel about this... I like the idea of getting to do a full beta test but I'm worried that this will take most of the page allotment for the book and we will have less content like new scenarios/new rules for other faction.

I'm curious what everyone elses thoughts are.

I think that no one bar anyone sitting on a squat army deserves this more than sisters. I'm also all for HUGE ENOURMOUS POSITIVE encouragement for GW to open up their game design to public beta testing. Imagine a future where armies get released and player feedback is taken for months leading upto the army being actually collated together?! things might start to deviate towards ballance when the horde can break them.

TBH, boo-fething-who if theres less 'toys' for everyone else.

Don't get me wrong. I love sisters and they badly need an update so I'm happy. It's more taking up space in a paid book for rules that are guaranteed to be obsolete in a couple months after they are out.
After thinking about it more I think the issue that is bothering me is tying it to a print book, rather than releasing the sisters beta test as separate pdf will make it impossible for them to do iterative updates which would be required for a proper beta test. Since they really need to release the rules, get data, modify the rules and repeat this cycle several times for it to be meaningful...
I mean that's what every other beta test be it other minis games, video games or rpgs do.

Just because its announced and shipped with CA does not mean that subsequent iterations wont be available as PDF. Its smart of them to include something so big into the december product. It will sell well. Hell, the beta may even go up a few days later as pdf.

 IronBrand wrote:
It may just be a bigger book. In which case I'd expect they'd charge us more for it instead of absorbing the extra costs themselves.

Book size seems to be irrelevant to GW, just look at the Codices:

Space Marines, 208 pages, £30

Death Guard, 104 pages, £25
Astra Militarum, 144 pages, £25
Imperial Knights, 120 pages, £25
Grey Knights, 102 pages, £25

Harlequins, 80 pages, £20.

The 2017 CA was 128 pages for £20.

I expect it to just be 10 or so pages and use mostly the index entries, especially if there aren't any new models released with the beta codex.

If GW don't include a GW-brand Repressor datasheet, indicating they aren't working on a Plastic Repressor, people will riot.

Lol, sounds familiar. Weren't Sisters relegated to a White Dwarf pseudo-codex for years? Now they're going to be a CA article?

Come on GW. Scared because some neckbeards typed nasty things at you over the SW codex?

Give us some plastic kits already!

 darkcloak wrote:
Lol, sounds familiar. Weren't Sisters relegated to a White Dwarf pseudo-codex for years? Now they're going to be a CA article?

Come on GW. Scared because some neckbeards typed nasty things at you over the SW codex?

Give is some plastic kits already!

this was ALWAYS the plan. and no one (well other then one guy with unreasonable expectations) said anything bad about the SW codex beyond maybe at most "thats it? why the long wait"

 darkcloak wrote:
Lol, sounds familiar. Weren't Sisters relegated to a White Dwarf pseudo-codex for years? Now they're going to be a CA article?

Come on GW. Scared because some neckbeards typed nasty things at you over the SW codex?

Give is some plastic kits already!

And this is why they don't like to give advance notice.

They said plastics in 2019 hopefully.

And that became (in the fanbase) 19Q1 confirmed and now, apparently, complaining that they aren't out in 18Q3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davou wrote:

I think that no one bar anyone sitting on a squat army deserves this more than sisters.

Inquisition.

The sisters index army is really quite good.

Flamephoenix182 wrote:
I'm worried that this will take most of the page allotment for the book and we will have less content like new scenarios/new rules for other faction

I have a copy of chapter approved here. The sisters codex takes up 12 pages from 128.

3rd edition codex that is. But it's about time GW bulked out their rules content - the last book had what, 17 pages of updated rules and points? They didn't even bother with some factions and the whole point of these books was supposed to be to fix outstanding balance issues hold the index armies over until they had an actual codex.

 darkcloak wrote:
Lol, sounds familiar. Weren't Sisters relegated to a White Dwarf pseudo-codex for years? Now they're going to be a CA article?

Come on GW. Scared because some neckbeards typed nasty things at you over the SW codex?

Give is some plastic kits already!

Eh what they would be scared about anyway?

And give plastic kits...THEY ARE IN DEVELOPMENT! Heard term "lead times" before? Plastic kits don't just materialize right now. There's actual design of models and whole aesthetics to do, package cover, codex rule designs, all new fluff that needs to be written, artwork, actual printing and shipping in ships from china which alone takes time. Then delivery to the stores etc.

Year or two lead times is standard for GW and they only started working on them in spring...So pretty much earliest you can expect is next spring.

tneva82 wrote:

Year or two lead times is standard for GW and they only started working on them in spring...So pretty much earliest you can expect is next spring.

End of '19 or early '20 wouldn't be a surprise at all.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Year or two lead times is standard for GW and they only started working on them in spring...So pretty much earliest you can expect is next spring.

End of '19 or early '20 wouldn't be a surprise at all.

Yep. Well GW is aiming for '19 but bit delay for '20 wouldn't be unheard. After all ork codex seems to have been delayed from original intention unless GW deliberately lied about "within 1 year" which was missed even if they meant "within 1 year of first codex".

I understand people want models fast(hey I'm tempted to start sisters as well if the models are as good as previews hint!) but let's not demand impossibilities. Products don't appear just like that and GW's size actually makes it less easy to do fast-track releases possibly. They have other projects already going on that can't be abandoned just like that.

I'm guessing the CA list will have all the SoB index units, with a couple new ones based on different weapon loadouts. The preview this week mentioned new units, but they aren't going to give us anything there isn't a model for. Thats the one thing that has me thinking we might not get a jump pack Canoness or lower level HQ. Though maybe they could somehow brand the Sister Superiors as those.

The Canoness Command Squad from 7edIA should drop in as a replacement for Celestian squads. Fix that unit and help Sisters out with the Ro3. After that hopefully some rule/point tweaks to fix Repentia, pull PenEngines into Sisters detachments, get the Exorcist playing a good tune. And hopefully just fix the way AoF scale and are available around the table. I like the current AoF rules, most of the units on the table just don't regularly have access to them.

I will be very surprised if the actual Codex and the plastic Sisters its waiting on are in our hands before 2019:Q4. Less surprised if its not 2020 sometime.

 dracpanzer wrote:
I'm guessing the CA list will have all the SoB index units, with a couple new ones based on different weapon loadouts. The preview this week mentioned new units, but they aren't going to give us anything there isn't a model for. Thats the one thing that has me thinking we might not get a jump pack Canoness or lower level HQ. Though maybe they could somehow brand the Sister Superiors as those.

The Canoness Command Squad from 7edIA should drop in as a replacement for Celestian squads. Fix that unit and help Sisters out with the Ro3. After that hopefully some rule/point tweaks to fix Repentia, pull PenEngines into Sisters detachments, get the Exorcist playing a good tune. And hopefully just fix the way AoF scale and are available around the table. I like the current AoF rules, most of the units on the table just don't regularly have access to them.

I will be very surprised if the actual Codex and the plastic Sisters its waiting on are in our hands before 2019:Q4. Less surprised if its not 2020 sometime.

We do already have two jump pack Canoness models but I guess they won't reuse.... The Ability to put characters in with Dominons and still scout would be nice. Rules for Verdian.....

Well hurry up and develop them then so you can take my money!

I'm sorry it just seems odd to be releasing a beta codex in CA. No other codex got that treatment and I can't help but wonder if Sisters will ever progress beyond being a magazine codex. I mean have they ever had a stand alone book?

And for the record I'm not upset about the SW codex, nor do I think that many people are, however, vocal minority and all that. Maybe the four or five dozen people who did think the SW was invalidated flamed GW so hard they decided to do a dry run with SoB?

Or, more likely, does GW realize they failed their 1 year codex promise and this is a way of sneaking one more book in before the end of the year? I'll bet that after the Ork release the big xmas release is a couple plastic Sister kits to go along with CA.

Couple plastic kits they had been storaging somewhere? No they started design too late for that.

And yes no other codex has got it. However not many other factions has been as neglected and this generates good will. Gw hasn't changed at all in rule quality nor balance but where they have changed is pr. This is cheap pr that generates good will.

Well I guess it just sticks in my craw funny then.

I'm not complaining though! Just expressing my stick to craw ratio I guess.

They could ostensibly have finished a basic Sisters box, or perhaps more likely a monopose plastic HQ by now. I would not be surprised, however nor will I be angry if xmas comes and there is no SoB release.

But that brings me to another question, what will the big xmas release be? I'm sure GW has some sort of big shiny thing planned, but what is it? Perhaps a thought for another thread.

But more to the point, this beta codex is really only a favour to SoB players if the actual codex comes out relatively soon afterwards. Well, maybe not "soon" but just at all. For a long time SoB were the most expensive army and they didn't even have a codex you could buy. If GW pulled the same stunt where even two years after the beta-dex there is no real codex for them, then they've just put those players in the same spot. Or rather it would look very much like GW was about to do that again.

Not being a Debby Downer, just looking to the past and making an observation about the present. I think GW has done pretty well turning their image around and i hope this beta-dex thing goes well. I mean, I want to start a SoB army!

Gee, I guess a guy better get ahold of some of those sweet as hell metal Sisters before they do actually get replaced!