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Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






I still mantain that this is the right thing to do and we’ll all be better off for it in the long run. In fact, I’m so pleased with this development I’m now swinging back towards renewing my dmc come February.
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





 Kilkrazy wrote:
As is said in my sig file, tight rules lead to people seeking out loopholes (and then going all barracks room lawyer when they attract moderation despite staying within the letter of the rules.
Your sig is also very explicitly political after taking a look to see what that said.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 11:33:46


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Guys, as insaniak said I'd just like to point out - we've only had the policy in place for 24 hours! There will definitely be a bit of a transition period while we look through existing things and posters adjust, too.

Please have a little patience with us, and if you think we've got something wrong in our implementation in a few weeks, just let us know

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 12:19:41


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

from https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/236985.page

I'm honestly surprised at some comments who seem to be focusing on how impossible its going to be or how heavy the moderation is going to have to be to enable this. I think many forget that no religion and no politics is pretty standard on most forums on the net (which are not focused on those subjects).

In fact the vast majority of 40K/Fantasy forums do fine without both those subjects and without obscene moderator work loads. Heck many sites also have no guns policies and they get along fine too.



I think people just need to cool off and step back for a moment and realise that there is more to the site than those two topics and that whilst it is sad to lose something that was once allowed and part of the site; no one can deny that both topics (esp politics at present) did result in most conflict between members and between mods and members. Increased conflict is never good and it sours the sites community (this thread is a very fine example of it).

A clean slate and removing topics that cause these specific problems is FAR easier.




Heck many photography forums banned Film VS Digital debates/arguments because they could get very heated (most have relented now and the rule is often gone or no longer enforced). You could try prising the fighters out and dealing with them and such ;but it puts loads of pressure on mods; esp when they end up having to ban or suspend active members who they might have known for years; risking losing active contributing members of the site due to what are honestly minor arguments or semantics. Plus lets not kid ourselves; we are not going to change the course of international politics or even national politics on Dakka.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





Yeah but we are potentially one snarky remark away from toppling X! (Insert Political topic here)

There are just some members who focus entirely upon politics.
   
Made in ca
Junior Officer with Laspistol





London, Ontario

Replying to a statement in the other thread, per Mod’s request.

“If I start a forum, no one will be there and it will be hard to keep it from becoming polarized.”

Well, all forum start somewhere, and you’re in control of the ship. You choose how to market the site. You choose whom to allow. You set the rules. You are RESPONSIBLE for it. You can deal with the sense of accomplishment and sense of futility all wrapped up at once.

So you may not have 10 people there every day for a while, but it can grow. Really, maybe 20 people were regulars in the NA Politics thread, and you already knew what most would say before you read the reply.

If you genuinely miss it, do something about it. You can set up a free forum in under an hour. I tried it. Advertise.

Perhaps, if asked nicely, a thread could be opened to create a list of outside locations where prohibidabido topics such as politics and religion could be discussed? That would allow Dakkites to have a way to advertise places to go share their views together without taking on responsibility for that discussion? Just a thought and not attempting to challenge current governance.

Someone with skin in the game could make such a forum, request to link to it, and then manage it. Fueling the effort with their own sense of righteousness. That’s just a cheap shot, I would genuinely encourage someone to make that effort.

   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

How will this ban affect discussion in geek media, considering the political themes and commentary of much of the media discussed within?

As an example, the new series of South Park is starting soon. Will discussion of the series be effectively banned as any discussion of the themes and topics being satirised will be political by its very nature?

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

This is covered in the message yakface posted in the OT subforum sticky. I also quoted the relevant passage earlier ITT.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 14:10:24


   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Manchu wrote:
This is covered in the message yakface posted in the OT subforum sticky. I also quoted the relevant passage earlier ITT.


Ah OK. I missed that somehow when I was looking through. Sorry and thanks for the clarification!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 14:29:52


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

I only post on two other forums on the Internet: Badger & Blade (a shaving forum) and GameFAQs. B&B has a "no religion/politics" rule and is quite a civil place most of the time, capable of discussing guns as a hobby and paying tribute to John McCain without problems. The GameFAQs Politics subforum is, well, a cesspool of barely literate trolls. I'm sad to see politics go from Dakka, but I can certainly understand why.

Most people may be otherwise normal when politics/religion is not involved and can be disagreeable in a civil manner. However, the unfortunate truth is that there will still always be naturally toxic people who, when disagreed with, simply cannot "keep it in their pants", so-to-speak, regardless of the subject matter. Rule 1 means nothing to them when that happens, although some may simply see Rule 1 as a challenge to see just how sarcastic, caustic, snide, and/or passive-aggressive they can get without specifically being directly insulting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 16:27:54


"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in za
Longtime Dakkanaut





 greatbigtree wrote:
Replying to a statement in the other thread, per Mod’s request.

“If I start a forum, no one will be there and it will be hard to keep it from becoming polarized.”

Well, all forum start somewhere, and you’re in control of the ship. You choose how to market the site. You choose whom to allow. You set the rules. You are RESPONSIBLE for it. You can deal with the sense of accomplishment and sense of futility all wrapped up at once.



So the question is whether there would be interest in going to another forum for the specific purposes of talking politics with wargaming. And on that basis would dakka provide a sticky link so that people that did want to discuss it can be redirected to the other site. That way it scratches the itch of those that do think it is an important issue whilst keeping this forum clean of clashes on political issues (as they have somewhere else to do that)?

"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!

"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

I move that if politics is banned, then Yakface must change his avatar to a non-political figure.

Let me underline why a politics thread is necessary: It ties up all the wandering politics in every other thread and has a place that mods can refer posters to without seeming like... well...


Particularly since 40k is a hotbutton political issue on Youtube and other sites right now. No offense, I don't see Privateer press have a dozen screaming videos a week about how it is/isn't/shouldn't/has caved to atl right/SJW/Brexit... the list goes on.



We have whole subjects of our own game that we cannot discuss without raging political trolls storming the thread and screaming politics and ignorance at us. Banning politics has done nothing in the past to stop this, but it almost always ends in a threadlock due to people just going there to post violations of rule one, get banned for a while, and post more trash when the threads come around again. These posters rarely post in ANYTHING but to enter specific thread subjects and trash the thread. One was so bad that I pointed out to the mods that he had under 200 posts in a decade, and according to his history every one of them was to trash specific threads.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 17:18:18



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

 BaronIveagh wrote:
I move that if politics is banned, then Yakface must change his avatar to a non-political figure.


How is Sean Connery political?

I mean, it IS Sean Connery in Yakface's avatar, right? I haven't been that confused all this time, have I?

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
I move that if politics is banned, then Yakface must change his avatar to a non-political figure.


How is Sean Connery political?

I mean, it IS Sean Connery in Yakface's avatar, right? I haven't been that confused all this time, have I?


https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence-will-come-in-time-sean-connery-1-3886874

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-sean-connery-backs-yes-vote-and-says-its-an-opportunity-not-to-be-missed-9163489.html

Might want to look into what he's been up to outside movies.

And since I've already noticed my posts disappearing, it's clear that the mods will do what they will, and discussing it is pointless.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/02 17:28:03



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

You know if we read into everything too much we can presume that anything said done or thought is politically or religiously motivated! Therefore the only solution is a ban on all conversation and content posting!

No avatars, signatures or post content!





Or you know we could use our heads and not be petty

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Overread wrote:
You know if we read into everything too much we can presume that anything said done or thought is politically or religiously motivated! Therefore the only solution is a ban on all conversation and content posting!

No avatars, signatures or post content!





Or you know we could use our heads and not be petty




It doesn't matter if we're being petty or not, that train has already apparently left the building. Already seeing my posts disappear, so it's clear that conversations have ended,



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





 BaronIveagh wrote:
I move that if politics is banned, then Yakface must change his avatar to a non-political figure.

Let me underline why a politics thread is necessary: It ties up all the wandering politics in every other thread and has a place that mods can refer posters to without seeming like... well...


Particularly since 40k is a hotbutton political issue on Youtube and other sites right now. No offense, I don't see Privateer press have a dozen screaming videos a week about how it is/isn't/shouldn't/has caved to atl right/SJW/Brexit... the list goes on.



We have whole subjects of our own game that we cannot discuss without raging political trolls storming the thread and screaming politics and ignorance at us. Banning politics has done nothing in the past to stop this, but it almost always ends in a threadlock due to people just going there to post violations of rule one, get banned for a while, and post more trash when the threads come around again. These posters rarely post in ANYTHING but to enter specific thread subjects and trash the thread. One was so bad that I pointed out to the mods that he had under 200 posts in a decade, and according to his history every one of them was to trash specific threads.


Or we can simply do the smart thing and if people cannot be civil and will not act in accordance to the rules.. They take a permanent leave from the forum. I genuinely do not know why some people have not been banned from this forum for constant insult slinging to begin with.

Though that'd depend on the mods actually starting to ban people I suppose.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 17:36:17


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Or we can simply do the smart thing and if people cannot be civil and will not act in accordance to the rules.. They take a permanent leave from the forum. I genuinely do not know why some people have not been banned from this forum for constant insult slinging to begin with.

Though that'd depend on the mods actually starting to ban people I suppose.


I suspect that the accounts in question are disposable accounts, made for purpose. Rather than get their mains banned, they use these.

So even bans are of limited use.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

That's one thing that I think gets overlooked in the "Just ban the worst offenders" argument. While we have a lot of tools at our disposal thanks to legoburner, people can and do get around them. Compared to a platform like Facebook, which has had tons of problems with fake accounts, this is even more wide open - every account is anonymous.

I've actually been looking for a site that does more screening to consider talking politics on - I'd be very open to suggestions!

Lorek mentioned that the old no-holds-barred spinoff forum from Dakka (called "The Wasteland") is still active, too, although if memory serves me right you've got to have really thick skin to participate over there (Rule #1 is Definitely not a thing on the platform ).
   
Made in ca
Junior Officer with Laspistol





London, Ontario

If you google, “Political Forum” there are several options that immediately pop up. You don’t need to start your own, you could just join one. PoliticalForum.com has, as of my just checking, 145 active members, 365 guests, and 85 “robots”... for whatever that means.
   
Made in za
Longtime Dakkanaut





 RiTides wrote:
That's one thing that I think gets overlooked in the "Just ban the worst offenders" argument. While we have a lot of tools at our disposal thanks to legoburner, people can and do get around them. Compared to a platform like Facebook, which has had tons of problems with fake accounts, this is even more wide open - every account is anonymous.

I've actually been looking for a site that does more screening to consider talking politics on - I'd be very open to suggestions!

Lorek mentioned that the old no-holds-barred spinoff forum from Dakka (called "The Wasteland") is still active, too, although if memory serves me right you've got to have really thick skin to participate over there (Rule #1 is Definitely not a thing on the platform ).


That's difficult to do because there are so many ways to remain hidden, create new IP addresses and so forth if you are that way inclined. On the other hand the deliberate trolling or antagonistic can be spotted a mile off. Most people aren't overly combative when they first join; the ones deliberately trying to upset things come straight in guns blazing. Self policing is probably the best way (as in reporting) because it encourages everyone to help. However it does come at a price that mods and admins are fair and make evidence based reason for their decisions and explain that as well as provide an opportunity for the perpetrator to explain themselves. Otherwise people think that they are being unfairly criticised or no action is being taken. That subsequently starts to lead to dissent and reduced respect for mods and admins making those decisions.

I haven't heard of the wasteland, is there a link?

Otherwise any thoughts on allowing a sticky to another forum in the off topic as a directed place to talk war gaming politics?

"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!

"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 RiTides wrote:
this is even more wide open - every account is anonymous.


Speaking from past experiance, this is not entirely true. Sock puppets can be linked to main accounts via IP. I know this because not only did I run DarkReign and crush quite a few sock puppets myself, but also tried it on the dakka mods once, many a long year ago. So I know that at some point it worked here too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 18:47:49



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 Whirlwind wrote:


I haven't heard of the wasteland, is there a link?


http://otzone.proboards.com/

Have fun!


 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 BaronIveagh wrote:

Speaking from past experiance, this is not entirely true. Sock puppets can be linked to main accounts via IP. I know this because not only did I run DarkReign and crush quite a few sock puppets myself, but also tried it on the dakka mods once, many a long year ago. So I know that at some point it worked here too.

Sometimes, yes, although IP addresses change, and many people these days have multiple devices. There are also other ways to link them, but it can quickly turn into a game of whackamole, so it's generally our preference to encourage the poster to alter their behaviour to fit into the site rather than banning them and hoping that being banned will suddenly make them start respecting the rules ...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 20:36:02


 
   
Made in za
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ketara wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:


I haven't heard of the wasteland, is there a link?


http://otzone.proboards.com/

Have fun!


Meh, that place is deader than tomb kings grandfather. Looks like last time anything really was posted there was 2015

"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!

"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

It died off considerably when Dakka added its own OT section, as that had been the main purpose of the Wasteland to begin with. And I think most of the regulars over there have long since moved on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 21:15:57


 
   
Made in za
Longtime Dakkanaut





 insaniak wrote:
It died off considerably when Dakka added its own OT section, as that had been the main purpose of the Wasteland to begin with. And I think most of the regulars over there have long since moved on.


It just makes the earlier comments a bit weird, making it sound like it was some pit of scum and villainy whereas in reality it's just barren. I suppose everything dies eventually.

Anyway any thoughts on advertising another forum as a sticky to support some people's desire to talk politics?

"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!

"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

 insaniak wrote:
It died off considerably when Dakka added its own OT section, as that had been the main purpose of the Wasteland to begin with. And I think most of the regulars over there have long since moved on.



Some of us are still around, but it's true that there isn't much going on in the Wasteland these days. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be happy to see it revived, if there are enough people who are interested.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Whirlwind wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
It died off considerably when Dakka added its own OT section, as that had been the main purpose of the Wasteland to begin with. And I think most of the regulars over there have long since moved on.


It just makes the earlier comments a bit weird, making it sound like it was some pit of scum and villainy whereas in reality it's just barren. I suppose everything dies eventually.

Anyway any thoughts on advertising another forum as a sticky to support some people's desire to talk politics?



It was a very active forum in its time. It never had a ton of members, but those it had posted quite regularly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 23:42:08


   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Ketara wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:


I haven't heard of the wasteland, is there a link?


http://otzone.proboards.com/

Have fun!


Ketara, you linked us to a forum that literally has a post forwarding to facebook and telling people not to post there.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:


I haven't heard of the wasteland, is there a link?


http://otzone.proboards.com/

Have fun!


Ketara, you linked us to a forum that literally has a post forwarding to facebook and telling people not to post there.



If you post it, they will come!

   
 
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