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That looks great and I hope they can deliver on all the promises. It looks like they have experience with megaprojects that far exceeded their original funding goal (the Dark Souls Board Game) and are at least in the process of shipping that. As a customer/dupe of Palladium's Robotech kickstarter, I'm too hesitant to back something that big that far off even if the company seems to be able to handle it. I look forward to seeing it in person though.

 warboss wrote:
That looks great and I hope they can deliver on all the promises. It looks like they have experience with megaprojects that far exceeded their original funding goal (the Dark Souls Board Game) and are at least in the process of shipping that. As a customer/dupe of Palladium's Robotech kickstarter, I'm too hesitant to back something that big that far off even if the company seems to be able to handle it. I look forward to seeing it in person though.

Well, that experience consists of severely screwing up megaprojects that far exceeded their original funding goal. So I wouldn't really consider it a merit...

That's my take, too... they make nice minis and decent wargame (not board game) rules, but KS backers seem to be their last priority among many (which they justify because backers are "getting a good deal").

I feel confident in their product when it is available, but honestly don't think I'll ever back one of their Kickstarters from what I've seen after looking into this...

 Mymearan wrote:

 warboss wrote:
That looks great and I hope they can deliver on all the promises. It looks like they have experience with megaprojects that far exceeded their original funding goal (the Dark Souls Board Game) and are at least in the process of shipping that. As a customer/dupe of Palladium's Robotech kickstarter, I'm too hesitant to back something that big that far off even if the company seems to be able to handle it. I look forward to seeing it in person though.

Well, that experience consists of severely screwing up megaprojects that far exceeded their original funding goal. So I wouldn't really consider it a merit...

Thanks for the clarification. I skimmed their update titles for the Dark Souls project but admittedly didn't go any deeper. I just wanted to see if they were at least delivering in some way so far. Can you go into more detail?

Mymerean is probably referencing the issues with the stretch goal content for Dark Souls - I honestly can't remember if the core set was on time, but the stretch goal stuff has been split into two additional waves.

I know the first of these is shipping in the UK, at least, as I got my stuff earlier this week. Can't recall the last update referencing Wave 3 timescale - as you say, there have been many updates, and may of them recently have been around wave 2 shipping.

Resident Evil 2, their second big license KS, is currently looking like being two months late on delivering - I think all the stretch goals are due to come through at the same time as the core game for RE2, but we'll see.

Yeah basically they massively delayed the expansions and stretch goals, making wave shipping necessary, and doubled/tripled shipping from the KS estimates, presumably to cover the extra expense. This while telling backers that wave shipping would be at no extra cost. At this point fulfillment is 1,5 years late (shipping date in the KS was april 2017 and they even thought they would be able to ship in time for christmas 2016). And even now they are only shipping the expansions in wave 2, none of the stretch goals (which have been split into an additional wave) are anywhere in sight. On top of all this the rules for the game were very poorly received.

If this were a wargame where I could drop half a grand or more kitting out a half dozen factions, I'd probably balk.

If the models are half as good as the renders, for ~$130 US plus shipping, I can withstand a delay or two.

Comparing it to clusterfeths like Robotech is a bit like saying air travel is doomed because of the Hindenburg. Now, the delays and wave shipping and whatnot with their other campaigns? Totally fair.

Honestly, having done the dance in a half dozen campaigns now, I'm kind of tired of the "why don't we get it FIRST?!" stuff.

Their page even says as much.

"Whilst we will strive to deliver your rewards in a timely manner, you may not receive your reward before the product is available for purchase at retail, or other promotional opportunities such as conventions. We have ensured that the pledge reward offered is packed with fantastic value and Kickstarter exclusives to compensate for any potential delays. However, if this unacceptable to you, please do not back this project and instead wait for the retail release. Thank you for your understanding."

It's certainly not a 'get out jail free' card for mismanagement or shenanigans, but I appreciate the reality of what they're saying here. If the choice is between missing an important holiday sales period or some distributor deal/arrangement, and my stuff arriving a few weeks earlier, whatever, it's a business and this thing is crammed full of exclusives (to the point I think there may be a few too many).

I get people being a bit gunshy. It's a good deal, maybe even a great one, but we all miss dozens of 'omg wtf' deals on Kickstarter every year, possibly every month.

If this arrives before 2021, I'll call that 'within the margin of error', personally.

Yeah, Dark Souls is waaaay late on completion, but it seems Resident Evil is only a few months behind (maybe some further Act of God snags if the hurricane interfered?). The other two aren't supposed to deliver for half a year or more.

One way late and one basically on time (by board game Kickstarter standards) isn't exactly knocking their release schedule out of the park, but it does seem that they're at least making an effort to learn, and hopefully the latter campaigns deliver on time'ish, to show that they have learned from whatever snags held up DS.

It sucks for the DS backers, and I hope that things are finally sorted out in a reasonable fashion. I guess with a few major debacles under my belt, perhaps the idea of putting down just enough for a tier and walking away would suffice. Even if it's late, even if I lose interest in the setting (unlikely), recouping my costs and then some selling off the games and the exclusives seems like it wouldn't be difficult. Or working out an arrangement to split things down the middle if I instead decide I just want some of the figures.

The Dark Souls stuff really never surprised me. Those stretch goals always felt like a well.... stretch. They seemed to be as large of a project as the core games and got dropped in at the end of the campaign with pretty nebulous ideas for implementation. A big part of why I ended up not backing is how that stuff felt very similar to other bloated projects that have struggled to be released in a timely manner.

Generally speaking, I get the feeling Steamforge really doesn't need or even really want hugely successful kickstarters. They need the capital influx to order the print run, but if they just barely make the goal, that's all they're really after. Their stuff has always been fine to wait for retail for. It's not a great deal, its not early, really, there's no great advantage to being a backer outside of some ability to follow the development process and voting with your wallet to see something you're interested in get made.

It's probably not "wise" to invest in their kickstarters. It's generally safer to wait and pick it up at retail. It's really just a campaign for people who want to put money up front to help something get made and in a lot of ways, might be closer to what KS should be.

I was leaning towards maybe getting a Thunderjaw, but in a sober bit of reflection, if anything I'll just stay at the base tier, so there's that.

We all have ~20 hours to decide, and I definitely haven't ruled out dropping to a $1 pledge for updates/comments and just accepting I'll wait for retail, pay a markup, and miss out on the exclusives. And if so, that's fine too.

For my support and handwaving, I do appreciate getting alternative views. It's easy to get swept up in a KS campaign, even knowing what some previous burns have been like, there's an attraction to try touching that stove again all the same...

I finally got around to watching the playthrough video. Somehow, the game seems"flat", like there isn't enough going on, not enough choices. The mini-campaign seems straightforward, but the battles seem like they're missing something, and I can't quite say what's wrong. It's obviously been concepted as something very clean, with a focus on speed, but maybe too much?

The minis look great, and the core has a LOT of them. The gameplay is tight. Campaign is short, doable in a maximum 4 or 5 sessions.

Why do I feel like it's missing something?

 Forar wrote:
Comparing it to clusterfeths like Robotech is a bit like saying air travel is doomed because of the Hindenburg. Now, the delays and wave shipping and whatnot with their other campaigns? Totally fair.

Right or wrong it still represents my first and subsequent only foray into big crowdfunding projects and is bound to color my future decisions. Fwiw, I initially backed Prodos' AVP at a large amount but chickened out last minute (literally)...that wouldn't have helped the situation either. To use your aviation analogy, I doubt you would find many people whose first experience with air travel was a dirigible disaster in line to try out that new fangled DC-1 monoplane just because they're told it's different.

I'm really just in it for the minis and am willing to wait. I like good deals.

I'm feeling a lot of the same sentiments.

The game should be an easy homerun in terms of putting together an exciting hunt, but the videos didn't wow me.

Then again most videos don't.

It does seem a pretty sweet deal. Dark Souls did too.

I am conflicted.

Yes, interested mostly if only for the biomech minis, the IP has no interest to me, neither I am wowed by gameplay, but looks good to cannibalise for other home projects.

I'm willing to pay a third of the cost for a third of the minis. Or a fourth for a fourth. I just care about getting a variety of cool technomonsters. If it happens, great! If not, I'll either pick up the game or expansions at deep discount or trade minis for minis to get some of the good ones. If that never comes to pass, I won't grieve. This campaign just isn't worth that kind of (emotional) investment.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'm willing to pay a third of the cost for a third of the minis. Or a fourth for a fourth. I just care about getting a variety of cool technomonsters.

Same! $50 for 50 or $40 for 40, or $30 for 30. Of course the "game" might not quite work but that might not be a big deal

Otherwise, I'll hit up CSI or MM when the stuff goes retail.

With the exclusives being what they are, I'd really say that the draw would be found in;

- Major fans of the game/setting/IP in particular.
- Resellers who want to turn their time waiting into some cash moving the exclusives on eBay.

Parceling out the figures and dice alone from retail is probably more sensible than paying now for something in 2 years, especially since shipping probably eats a good chunk of whatever savings might be found.

I guess some of the KS exclusive cultists might overcome some of that, but if the dino-mechs are the big draw, might as well just buy a box off CSI (likely before backers have theirs) and chop it up from there.

Especially folks who are so gunshy about being burned again. Is saving $10 or $20 really worth adding another story of how fethed you got by Kickstarter *insert reason here*?

You make a strong argument.

 Forar wrote:
Is saving $10 or $20 really worth adding another story of how fethed you got by Kickstarter *insert reason here*?

According to the KS pitch, you're spending $150 ($130 + $20 S&H) to get $295 worth of stuff, for a 50% savings.

OTOH, if it were a la carte, I doubt I'd have gotten any off enemy humans, despite them being half of the content: 42 Bandits, 14 Cultists & 9 Mercenaries.

I think if this were $90 for the monsters with the giant pile of humans as another $50 mega expansion, I'd have backed the monster core.

Waiting for retail is looking even more sensible, as Bob and Tam are probably going to want the same cool minis that I'd have wanted.
____

KS closes in 13 hours : 11:00 am Pacific tomorrow

Yeah, even my son who is super keen on it is really only interested in the mechs. No desire for the humans AT ALL.

You guys give me crap about going all highlord over reptiles and what not, that kid takes it to a whole new level, especially if it's based on prehistoric life... He had a crazy idea of using the mechs in conjunction with lizard men and doing a Tau auxiliary army with a bunch of converted Saurus Knights.

I'm starting to see I don't really have much interest in all the human models.

I have to have a Thunderjaw though.

I thought the human minis were cool. They're not as smexy as the robomonsters, but they ain't nothing.

And I never expected to take the thunder jaw.

See? Everybody wants the bots, nobody wants the peeps!

I guess we're all waiting for retail.

Do you three live near each other then?

Do you get together for dinner often?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

I guess we're all waiting for retail.

If it goes to retail, if anybody in you country brings it and if your country has a custom of doing deep discounts, otherwise why not back?

The Kickstarter ends in an hour with the current base pledge giving (by my count) 135 miniatures, 28 of them KS exclusive. There is also a current stretch goal that is almost a slam dunk to add another bellowback miniature, by community request, so that will bring the total to 136. I feel like the KS exclusives do add quite a bit of value, since there are a large number of additional hunter miniatures, with each having different abilities and card decks than the base ones. Since those are the characters player's use, I think that will help improve replayability a lot.

As for the value, I fell in love with the Horizon IP as soon as I saw the first trailer, even though I have not yet played it. The wife and I have promised ourselves a PS4 for Christmas, so I am waiting for that to get hunting robo-dinosaurs. I also think the board game in itself looks good, with a somewhat similar feel to a pared-down Kingdom Death but without the multi-session commitment, which means I can get my KD fix in a single evening. I have also wanted minis for Horizon since the aforementioned game trailer, and I like the "techno-savage" aesthetic. Post-apoc is one of my favourite genres for wargames and RPG's, so this whole thing is a no-brainer for me.

I live fairly close to BobtheInquisitor. Maybe 30, 45 minutes or so away?

They're both a bit closer to Brookhurst Hobbies in Orange County than I am, so it's not too hard to hit either of them up.

I'm still in for a pound. I'd pulled my EB a while back, but an extra bellowback is pretty tempting.

I'll see how I'm feeling towards it when the PM opens. Maybe we'll see more rules and gameplay by then.

Including all the expansions, it's not that bad of deal, exclusives or not. It's just a question of will it get much use in my house for me.

 Mysterio wrote:
Do you three live near each other then?

Do you get together for dinner often?

Nearish. We often see each other at local gaming events. And then we gossip about Dakka members who aren't present. Oh, the things we say about Dakka members!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
Do you three live near each other then?

Do you get together for dinner often?

Nearish. We often see each other at local gaming events. And then we gossip about Dakka members who aren't present. Oh, the things we say about Dakka members!

What are you saying about me!!!!!!!!!!!???

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Mysterio wrote:
Do you three live near each other then?

Do you get together for dinner often?

Nearish. We often see each other at local gaming events. And then we gossip about Dakka members who aren't present. Oh, the things we say about Dakka members!

I guess we'd be surprised if you didn't?

Anyway, I'm with many others here - I wish there as a 'monsters' only pledge - I'd be in for that!

 Mysterio wrote:
Do you three live near each other then?

Do you get together for dinner often?

I think Bob is 15 minutes from me, and believe that Tam is a bit farther.

No, but we do trade minis and bitz from time to time.
____

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

I guess we're all waiting for retail.

If it goes to retail, if anybody in you country brings it and if your country has a custom of doing deep discounts, otherwise why not back?

I'm in the United States, so I'd start with ForEx as an issue, on top of the long delay, for which half of the minis have nearly zero value to me.

Someone asked the question, whether I would drop $150 if this were a package at my local hobby store. If I knew I could sell off the humans to recover their cost, I probably would. But as there's no demand for the humans, probably not.