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Hey guys!

New returner to the hobby, after picking up my first Issue of "Conquest" (Includes 3 marines, paints, brushes - not bad for £1.99!)

Any ways, after previously only painting one-off models from a set, HQ unit or vehicle decided on selecting an army to build and potentially compete in competitions/tournaments within the next year.

Always been a fan of space marines, with the new addition of Primaris units - their is a heap load of new models/tactics to use within a space marines army - which comes to my query's regarding "Grey knights"


Always been found of Grey Knights, the colour scheme and general fluff about them - but curious how they hold up in the current addition of WH40K.

They seem near in-existence in my local GW, rarely even selling their models/HQ units on the shelve (Unless you order) and often unheard or unseen in my local game tournaments - what gives?

Is their a location where I can establish what units (Typical SM units such as dreadnoughts) can be used within a grey knights army? such as storm-raven gunship/assault marines for example!

Cheers guys!

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Grey_Knights(8E)

Give that a read!

I should also point out, because someone else will soon otherwise, that GKs are considered one of the poorest performing armies in the game currently.

That isn't to say you can't have fun with them, and couldn't win casual games against friends. But before buying anything you should be aware that playing GKs is sort of playing 40k on hard mode right now.

Of course, all that could change with a single FAQ!

Yeah they're pretty bad as an army and even as an ally.

Man you guys are quick!

So that's why they are unseen in my local GW, was kinda hoping they are this 'forgotten' chapter that when appeared are feared on the battlefield, guess I have to take that heavy lump into consideration!

How are Space wolves performing?

(I'm choosing between Space Wolves/Grey Knights but prefer the painting/scheme of Grey Knights over space wolves)

May I ask, what is the 'big issue' with grey knights right now? Lack of kit/special ability's? Considering they are all Spykers was exspecting that to add a huge benefit to the field...

Thanks for the replies all!

harley1200 wrote:
Man you guys are quick!

So that's why they are unseen in my local GW, was kinda hoping they are this 'forgotten' chapter that when appeared are feared on the battlefield, guess I have to take that heavy lump into consideration!

How are Space wolves performing?

(I'm choosing between Space Wolves/Grey Knights but prefer the painting/scheme of Grey Knights over space wolves)

May I ask, what is the 'big issue' with grey knights right now? Lack of kit/special ability's? Considering they are all Spykers was exspecting that to add a huge benefit to the field...

Thanks for the replies all!

The Space Wolves Tactica has some decent ideas going on in it. I'd say it's the strongest written Marine book with Deathwatch. Someone is gonna argue Blood Angels, but that'll stop once Slamguinus gets nerfed.

Marines in general are a little poor this edition. Basically it's too easy to get through power armour, which means spending 13pts on a Marine is not worth it when you could be spending 4pts on a Guardsman.

This problem is compounded in GKs because they are even more expensive per model, but still die really easily to a lot of things.

One thing GKs are supposed to have as an advantage is how much of the army can teleport, but this was heavily stripped back from them with the last FAQ which meant you couldn't have more than half your army by PL in reserves and you can't teleport outside your own deployment zone until turn 2.

There are probably other weaknesses that could be addressed more specifically, but that's the broad strokes!

harley1200 wrote:

I'd say it's the strongest written Marine book with Deathwatch. .

harley1200 wrote:

I'd say it's the strongest written Marine book with Deathwatch. .

I'm going to try and be the little ray of sunshine that says 'sure, go ahead and play Grey Knights'!

Their codex was early in the release schedule, meaning they have some veryyyy conservative rules-writing: GW were scared of breaking the game, due to their combo-style psyker powers and their super-common teleportation ability.

So go in with your eyes open: you will be facing an up-hill challenge. having said that there are a handful of strong units you can base your army around, as long as you don't mind the idea of ALSO buying some guard, or ad mech? (The Knights function best as a strike force, dropping the hammer whilst another detachment rains shots and holds objectives.)

So Voldus is a great HQ, great caster, very good in close combat. Draigo is tough, vicious in combat, and buffs well - but he's expensive. the Grandmaster in a nemesis dreadknight suit is expensive but very powerful. The basic troop choice of strike squad is great, and lays down lots of dakka. One venerable dread in a list is a great option, as uniquely, he can hide behind line of sight blocking terrain, and snip away at enemy tanks. Your apothecaries are the best available to marines, and they function as action heroes, hitting things on the head with massive hammers, and healing themselves or others when they get damaged. After that there's some pretty good units (Paladins, Stormravens, Interceptors), and then a sharp falloff.

So it's doable, and I suspect Grey Knights are top of the list for armies to get a buff when the new CHapter Approved tweaks come out. Long story short, if you think they're cool, then follow your heart. Research your faction. Buy and build wisely. And take immense satisfaction when you win against players using your cunning, not your auto-win button.

Indeed, I was mistaken by Death company - Deathwatch have some epic fluff, compromising multiple chapters to create unique 'kill teams' while allowing them to keep one shoulder showing their negligence to one faction!

Real awesome model work to convert my Dark angels/Ultramarines into deathwatch if I see fit - thanks for giving me the idea!

Death watch are a good source of infantry but you should be ware they lack tanks etc that a standard chapter has.

Best advice I can give you Harley is play waht you want not what the people online say is most powerful. for alkl you know by time you finish assmbling and painting your army the meta has changed.

BrianDavion wrote:
Death watch are a good source of infantry but you should be ware they lack tanks etc that a standard chapter has.

Best advice I can give you Harley is play waht you want not what the people online say is most powerful. for alkl you know by time you finish assmbling and painting your army the meta has changed.

This is good advice.

You never know what factions will be strong in 6 months time even. If you get something just because it's good now, but you don't love the look and the lore, you will severely regret it down the road. Alternatively if you get something you're truly excited about you'll probably have more fun in the long run.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah they're pretty bad as an army and even as an ally.

They def need allies. And grand masters on dreadknights. Without those they are so lol-bad even orks will wipe them out without too much of a trouble and orks are still on their crappy index rules.

By the time you have 2000 points painted the best list is going to be completely different from what it is right now. Get in with something you're passionate about and don't bother chasing the meta unless you have a preposterous amount of cash to burn.

That being said, if you have to play loyalist marines Deathwatch are way cooler than Grey Knights. You get bolters that actually do something useful!

 Arachnofiend wrote:
By the time you have 2000 points painted the best list is going to be completely different from what it is right now.

Testify!

"By the time you have 2000 points painted the best list is going to be completely different from what it is right now."

I normally parrot this long and hard for almost every "What army should I play?" questions.

The exception comes from factions GW has made clearly 'secondary' - Inquisition, LOTD, Corsairs, etc.

Unfortunately, GK seem to have recently transitioned to 'secondary' status. In 6-12 months, they may be top dog, but they're less likely than any of the 'primary' faction.

Bharring wrote:
"By the time you have 2000 points painted the best list is going to be completely different from what it is right now."

I normally parrot this long and hard for almost every "What army should I play?" questions.

The exception comes from factions GW has made clearly 'secondary' - Inquisition, LOTD, Corsairs, etc.

Unfortunately, GK seem to have recently transitioned to 'secondary' status. In 6-12 months, they may be top dog, but they're less likely than any of the 'primary' faction.

Couldn't for the life of me remember what LOTD stood for just then. Could only think lord of the dance for some reason until I moused over it and was reminded legion of the damned was a thing.

Haha the lord of the dance faction with Michael Flatley as named chapter master.

Bharring wrote:
"By the time you have 2000 points painted the best list is going to be completely different from what it is right now."

I normally parrot this long and hard for almost every "What army should I play?" questions.

The exception comes from factions GW has made clearly 'secondary' - Inquisition, LOTD, Corsairs, etc.

Unfortunately, GK seem to have recently transitioned to 'secondary' status. In 6-12 months, they may be top dog, but they're less likely than any of the 'primary' faction.

They've always been secondary in my mind hah

I remember them from 2nd edition where they were one entry in the rule book with no points costs or models. By the time they were released as a 'full' faction I was on hiatus from the game :p

I would avoid them. Given how long it seems to take for GW to fix issues, it's unlikely to happen for a couple of years, during which your experience is likely to be miserable.

Terminators are unfortunately *still* hot garbage in 40K.

Space Wolves have potential (take thunder hammers... ALL the thunder hammers...)

Come to the Dark side.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
By the time you have 2000 points painted the best list is going to be completely different from what it is right now. Get in with something you're passionate about and don't bother chasing the meta unless you have a preposterous amount of cash to burn.

That being said, if you have to play loyalist marines Deathwatch are way cooler than Grey Knights. You get bolters that actually do something useful!

You would be suprised how many models make up a 2000pts army. Plus it is not like GK require some ingenius levels of painting skills. Coat of some metal, black ink. Blue eyes and white scrolls and books and the models are 90% done. One can paint 30 probably in a single sesion.

As for starting GK,just don't. Even If you want to play them very much, do not buy them till you see their index update or a new codex. You can save the money to buy them in the future, if your inclined to. People say that you never know, if the list doesn't suddenly end up being OP, and this maybe true. But GK have been bad for multiple editions back to back, and we already had a supposed fix Index to them last year. GW seems to have no idea how to make the GK work, and it has nothing to do with being conservative with rules or them being an early codex. The codex that came just after and before the GK one are heaven and earth comparing what the GK book got.

People here, who I think do not play GK, throw around stuff like HQ are killy, stormbolters do a lot of damge etc. But it isn't true unless you play game without points or do not know what really good HQs do. Just to give you a perspective a GK librarian or GM costs around as much custodes dude on a jetbike. The GK has worse stats, lacks the good stratagems and is hoofing it on his own legs with a stormbolter as a shoting weapon, while the custodes is flying around on a jebtikes with a set of hurrican bolters build in to his ride. And the cost of something like a NDK GM vs a BA cpt with a jumppack comes out even worse, and that is with counting the points for the units of scouts that tag along with the BA cpt.

All in all. don't start GK till you see the new rules. If you like the models or the faction fluff, save up money. Maybe people are right, maybe the next index is going to fix all GK problems and they end up being a playable army. No one other the GW and the testers know, and neither will tell. So save up money and buy them when they are good.

Custodes might be what you want. Look them up!

You can teleport a lot of them, they're a very elite army that actually functions, they have one of the best generic characters in the game, and they're genuinely pretty fun to play!

You can still paint them silver if you want too :p

I have confidence that GW will give GK some of it's bite back this December. Still, be prepared to bring IG as allies since most marine armies need bodies to supplement them.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I have confidence that GW will give GK some of it's bite back this December. Still, be prepared to bring IG as allies since most marine armies need bodies to supplement them.

I'd say that depends on the meta. If everyone you're going to be playing with are new to the game too then I wouldn't worry about getting Imperial Guard to supplement marines just yet. Let's not put the cart before the horse!

Not to mention it's entirely possible that the tournament mandatory IG Battalion gets a nerf in the next month too.

Ok which army is balanced vs GK. For me, when I started, the only one was a primaris army made out of starer sets. Everything else my friends started with was way above GK, and only one of my friends had what people would call a tournament army. Also my balanced games with the primaris player ended rather fast too, after a month he first switched to DW, and then added IG and custodes to his army. And you can't say that DW with custodes are some sort of uber tournament army.
All that talk about GK being playable, made me buy in to them and it was wasted money. If the seller, who is also our store owner, explained to me how bad they were, I may have had fun this summer playing something fun. Even spending the money on games would have been better.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I have confidence that GW will give GK some of it's bite back this December. Still, be prepared to bring IG as allies since most marine armies need bodies to supplement them.

You know people were saying the same thing before the last update, and no such thing happened. And from what people were telling me about last 2-3 editions, the state of GK did not improve much, they keep being the weakest or one of the weakest army every edition.

Necrons seem to be balanced vs. GK.
You could play a GK detachment in a soup list together with an IK and an AM battalion.
Successful soup lists contain usually BA with smash Captains and Scout units.
You could basically replace BA by GK. The playing of the army changes a bit.
Instead of board control by the Scouts you could take the GK to deep strike into the right spots.

Do not buy Grey Knights.

Simple point changes won't fix garbage psychic powers & stratagems. And Grey Knights still have to remain balanced as their base costs are equivalent to marine base costs. Which means they will always be inferior to Ultramarines, Deathwatch, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, etc.

Look at Custodes. They are what GK should have been.

harley1200 wrote:
Man you guys are quick!

So that's why they are unseen in my local GW, was kinda hoping they are this 'forgotten' chapter that when appeared are feared on the battlefield, guess I have to take that heavy lump into consideration!

How are Space wolves performing?

(I'm choosing between Space Wolves/Grey Knights but prefer the painting/scheme of Grey Knights over space wolves)

May I ask, what is the 'big issue' with grey knights right now? Lack of kit/special ability's? Considering they are all Spykers was exspecting that to add a huge benefit to the field...

Thanks for the replies all!

The whole "all psykers" thing is a big problem for them, because you can only cast one instance of any power per turn, so most don't cast anything, and their smite is super nerfed.

Also, all their units have deep strike, but you can't deep strike on turn 1 anymore and you can only deep strike half your army.

Finally, they all have force weapons, which are expensive and rather extraordinarily unuseful.