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Voss wrote:

The whole "Is she going to replace Cap" argument that was floating around

Why would that even been an argument?
She's a super hero with strength, flight, invulnerability and energy blasts.

He's a gymnast and a stage act. Or that kid in captain planet with the heart gem. A monkey in a funny hat could replace Cap.

Not in a million years, captain american is the conscience of the avengers, he keeps them honest, if we go by the current comic version of captain marvel.... well, she is replacing no one, taking a space in a line up that could be better served with many many other characters.

Also lets not forget that Monica rambeua marvel led the avengers for a bit too, actually thinking about it why did they choose the 7th/8th version of captain marvel rather than the 1st or 2nd???

 Formosa wrote:

Voss wrote:

The whole "Is she going to replace Cap" argument that was floating around

Why would that even been an argument?
She's a super hero with strength, flight, invulnerability and energy blasts.

He's a gymnast and a stage act. Or that kid in captain planet with the heart gem. A monkey in a funny hat could replace Cap.

Not in a million years, captain american is the conscience of the avengers, he keeps them honest, if we go by the current comic version of captain marvel.... well, she is replacing no one, taking a space in a line up that could be better served with many many other characters.

Also lets not forget that Monica rambeua marvel led the avengers for a bit too, actually thinking about it why did they choose the 7th/8th version of captain marvel rather than the 1st or 2nd???

Because Carol Danvers debuted as Ms. Marvel in 1968 and is much better known than any other Captain Marvel incarnation outside of Mar-Vell?

 trexmeyer wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Voss wrote:

The whole "Is she going to replace Cap" argument that was floating around

Why would that even been an argument?
She's a super hero with strength, flight, invulnerability and energy blasts.

He's a gymnast and a stage act. Or that kid in captain planet with the heart gem. A monkey in a funny hat could replace Cap.

Not in a million years, captain american is the conscience of the avengers, he keeps them honest, if we go by the current comic version of captain marvel.... well, she is replacing no one, taking a space in a line up that could be better served with many many other characters.

Also lets not forget that Monica rambeua marvel led the avengers for a bit too, actually thinking about it why did they choose the 7th/8th version of captain marvel rather than the 1st or 2nd???

Because Carol Danvers debuted as Ms. Marvel in 1968 and is much better known than any other Captain Marvel incarnation outside of Mar-Vell?

That doesnt explain why mar'vell was not used though?

 Formosa wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Voss wrote:

The whole "Is she going to replace Cap" argument that was floating around

Why would that even been an argument?
She's a super hero with strength, flight, invulnerability and energy blasts.

He's a gymnast and a stage act. Or that kid in captain planet with the heart gem. A monkey in a funny hat could replace Cap.

Not in a million years, captain american is the conscience of the avengers, he keeps them honest, if we go by the current comic version of captain marvel.... well, she is replacing no one, taking a space in a line up that could be better served with many many other characters.

Also lets not forget that Monica rambeua marvel led the avengers for a bit too, actually thinking about it why did they choose the 7th/8th version of captain marvel rather than the 1st or 2nd???

Because Carol Danvers debuted as Ms. Marvel in 1968 and is much better known than any other Captain Marvel incarnation outside of Mar-Vell?

That doesnt explain why mar'vell was not used though?

Because Carol is more interesting.

Carol is a person who we can both relate to because shes human (and thus a firm link to earth), yet has her foot firmly planted in the cosmic marvel universe, has the soldier background, and at this point a longer history in the Marvel universe and relationships formed and enemies made.

Mahr-vell is a alien defector who's stories didn't last that long and whos source material predates the 70s which more or less guarantees that they are fething terrible. Besides him not actually being needed to tell Carol or anyone elses story is a big reason to skip him. And the fact that in the comics he is ANOTHER white blonde dude doesn't help either.

All of his bad guys have been Carols bad guys and then some. He's very replaceable. Obviously.

well thats your personal preference and fair enough, I cant see it though, Danvers is a very very boring character and that shows with the multitude of failed attempts to push this character over the years, I suppose its a case of one failed character over another failed character.

Personally I would have prefered a Black Widow movie, way back when they were saying they were thinking of doing it I didnt think it would work as Lucy had come out a few years earlier and Ghost in the Shell was just out, so another Johanson spy movie would have been lost in the noise, now would have been the perfect time for it, and she has earned it.

Good news. Black widow is getting a movie inbphase 4.

That is good news I like Johanson

 Formosa wrote:

Voss wrote:

The whole "Is she going to replace Cap" argument that was floating around

Why would that even been an argument?
She's a super hero with strength, flight, invulnerability and energy blasts.

He's a gymnast and a stage act. Or that kid in captain planet with the heart gem. A monkey in a funny hat could replace Cap.

Not in a million years, captain american is the conscience of the avengers, he keeps them honest,

Except for that part where he lies to his friends and fights (and probably cripples) innocent law enforcement agents doing their jobs to save an assassin because the assassin's meat happened to have been someone he cared about.

That isn't an honest man with conscience. That's a selfish man with a questionable set of ethics. [And while that could be argued to be justified, it isn't an example of conscience or honesty]

But Captain Marvel doesn't replace that. Instead, she's potentially useful for fighting the upper level threats in the Marvel universe, while Captain America is useful for... crowd control and punching foot soldiers and normals. Which is what he's done consistently in the films.

I would call that the height of honesty and integrity and ultimetely he was proven right, bucky was innocent, he was not in control of his actions and the only person to believe in his was the only person who knew him well enough to know, had his colleagues and friends had trusted him enough it could have all been resolved in a much less painful manner.

As for use, captain america is a symbol that captain marvel can never be and will never be, no matter how hard they try and "deconstruct" captain america or push captain marvel, one has stood the test of time, the other has consistently failed.

in universe, well that doesnt even come close, Cap wins every time, its not just about "power levels" otherwise we just use the top level heroes every time and ignore the rest, Captain marvel is a uniter and has the clout to pull in even his enemies when the going gets tough.

Voss wrote:
Except for that part where he lies to his friends and fights (and probably cripples) innocent law enforcement agents doing their jobs to save an assassin because the assassin's meat happened to have been someone he cared about.

That isn't an honest man with conscience. That's a selfish man with a questionable set of ethics.

This is the warped perspective that makes someone think the Empire are the good guys in Star Wars movies too.

Captain America has always been the moral compass of the Marvel Universe. If he thinks something isn't right it probably isn't. And he is uncompromising in his willingness to fight the things that are wrong.

The exception to that is the Mutant stuff. But thats less a fault of the Captain America character and more an issue of the X-men comics. None of the Xmen stuff makes any god damn sense in the larger picture of the marvel universe. It's always taken place in it's own little bubble that for whatever reason is always cut off from everybody else until the story needs someone else to be there.

They summon literal hell in the middle of NYC and spiderman, ironman, luke cage, iron fist, daredevil, dr. strange etc etc.... are nowhere to be found. The X-Men killed the ultimate universe (literally and figuratively both because their stories were shot gunned out so fast and were all so ridiculous that the rest of the Ultimate universe couldn't keep up AND because Magneto did Ultimatum) and if the MCU isn't REALLY careful about how slowly they introduce them into the MCU and what scale they tell their stories at they will ruin the MCU also.

 Formosa wrote:
well thats your personal preference and fair enough, I cant see it though, Danvers is a very very boring character and that shows with the multitude of failed attempts to push this character over the years, I suppose its a case of one failed character over another failed character.

Personally I would have prefered a Black Widow movie, way back when they were saying they were thinking of doing it I didnt think it would work as Lucy had come out a few years earlier and Ghost in the Shell was just out, so another Johanson spy movie would have been lost in the noise, now would have been the perfect time for it, and she has earned it.

The same reason why the movie SHAZAM! is not called Captain Marvel.

Voss wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Voss wrote:

The whole "Is she going to replace Cap" argument that was floating around

Why would that even been an argument?
She's a super hero with strength, flight, invulnerability and energy blasts.

He's a gymnast and a stage act. Or that kid in captain planet with the heart gem. A monkey in a funny hat could replace Cap.

Not in a million years, captain american is the conscience of the avengers, he keeps them honest,

Except for that part where he lies to his friends and fights (and probably cripples) innocent law enforcement agents doing their jobs to save an assassin because the assassin's meat happened to have been someone he cared about.

That isn't an honest man with conscience. That's a selfish man with a questionable set of ethics. [And while that could be argued to be justified, it isn't an example of conscience or honesty]

But Captain Marvel doesn't replace that. Instead, she's potentially useful for fighting the upper level threats in the Marvel universe, while Captain America is useful for... crowd control and punching foot soldiers and normals. Which is what he's done consistently in the films.

Couple things:
Cap was ultimately right about Bucky and because he was right, they had the Winter Soldier.
Cap punches up in the Marvel Universe, especially the MCU. He fights way above his power level.
I would want nobody else calling the shots in the middle of a team fight. Human or otherwise. He is a great strategist.
Carrol Danvers has a terrible time with getting mind controlled/tricked by people. Which means she is a potential enemy as well as ally.

 Lance845 wrote:


They summon literal hell in the middle of NYC and spiderman, ironman, luke cage, iron fist, daredevil, dr. strange etc etc.... are nowhere to be found. The X-Men killed the ultimate universe (literally and figuratively both because their stories were shot gunned out so fast and were all so ridiculous that the rest of the Ultimate universe couldn't keep up AND because Magneto did Ultimatum) and if the MCU isn't REALLY careful about how slowly they introduce them into the MCU and what scale they tell their stories at they will ruin the MCU also.

I am very worried about the X-Men joining the MCU. They are going to have to dial down a lot of their powers otherwise the introduction of Omega level mutants is going to break everything. They would have to really up the scale of power in the MCU because a lot of the mutants would make Ms. Marvel look like a child. I am not sure who they could bring in to fix that either. Black Bolt, Adam Warlock, Sentry, and The Beyonder would be a good start but those will be hard sells to the audience.

Why Carol Danvers?

Well, I don’t know a lot about Captain Marvel. And nor will the majority of movie goers.

So to make the most of cross media sales, you go with the current iteration, so if I pick up a Captain Marvel Comic Book, I won’t spend my time reading where the hell Carol is.

Cap was ultimately right about Bucky and because he was right, they had the Winter Soldier.
Cap punches up in the Marvel Universe, especially the MCU. He fights way above his power level.
I would want nobody else calling the shots in the middle of a team fight

How so? (seriously I have no idea what made him 'right,' or what indicates he was) Also, in what way did that help? A random guy with a machinegun did not help in a African Tau vs Tyranids battle. And that itself was a complete side note to what was actually at stake.

When has this ever happened? Beyond foot soldiers, Bucky and Stark, who has Cap -ever- punched in the face? His Ultron fight was all about how outclassed he was (and the spies as well)

Eh. MCU fights are about cinematography, not tactics. Between tech, magic and experience plus superpowers, many of the others can just find weaknesses or not care. Stark was much more effective at calling shots in a lot of avengers's battles.

Voss wrote:

Cap was ultimately right about Bucky and because he was right, they had the Winter Soldier.
Cap punches up in the Marvel Universe, especially the MCU. He fights way above his power level.
I would want nobody else calling the shots in the middle of a team fight

How so? (seriously I have no idea what made him 'right,' or what indicates he was) Also, in what way did that help? A random guy with a machinegun did not help in a African Tau vs Tyranids battle. And that itself was a complete side note to what was actually at stake.

When has this ever happened? Beyond foot soldiers, Bucky and Stark, who has Cap -ever- punched in the face? His Ultron fight was all about how outclassed he was (and the spies as well)

Eh. MCU fights are about cinematography, not tactics. Between tech, magic and experience plus superpowers, many of the others can just find weaknesses or not care. Stark was much more effective at calling shots in a lot of avengers's battles.

Bucky was not acting as Cap remembers him to be, Bucky was being mind controlled, and as such not responsible for his actions, Cap knew this and tried to explain it to his friends and allies, they disregarded his warning and he decided to try and help Bucky, ultimately being proven correct about Bucky and through doing so uncovered an insider threat within shield, so he was right, through loyalty, integrity and princibles, he was ultimately proven right.

Cap saved america from the red skull and hydra several times, he was also instrumental in stopping the helicarriar fleet, he fights against people he stands no chance against and as such is an inspiration to his friends and allies.

The Avengers films show badly the other abilities of captain america, he is an amazing tactician and strategic expert, he can go toe to toe with iron man while barely armoured and win, very few can beat him in hand to hand combat with exception to the massively super powered, but if we go off your logic none of that matters because scarlet witch is there, so she can just reshape reality however she likes so everyone else is just redundant

Voss wrote:

Cap was ultimately right about Bucky and because he was right, they had the Winter Soldier.
Cap punches up in the Marvel Universe, especially the MCU. He fights way above his power level.
I would want nobody else calling the shots in the middle of a team fight

How so? (seriously I have no idea what made him 'right,' or what indicates he was) Also, in what way did that help?

The plot of civil war is that zemo finds the journal to control bucky but he can't actually find him.

So he puts on a rubber mask and a wig and blows up the UN to make everyone THINK bucky did it and start a word wide man hunt.

The police that show up to get bucky that cap and bucky fight their way through have orders to kill on sight. Black widow (Or sharon carter?) tells cap that before he goes in to get bucky.


Cap is right on several levels. 1) Bucky didn't even do it. 2) if he did do it he did it under mind control and isn't ultimately responsible and shouldn't pay with his life for it. 3) you don't execute people without a fair trial but thats exactly what those soldiers were going in there to do.

Because Cap refused to let Bucky get shot on sight in that film it lead to him being actual arrested and put in the containment. Which ended up playing it to zemos hands which the authorities were not even looking for. As far as everyone else knew they had their man. Which, if the avengers all signed the accords would have been their job. Not to investigate or find the real culprit but to follow orders like those soldiers who were told to kill on sight.

When bucky got mind controlled again by zemo they found the real person responsible for the UN explosion.


The only reason Bucky fell into Zemos hands is because everyone knee jerk reactioned and went gunning for him. If they let cap stop to talk to him first they would have taken another look at that security footage or something else and started looking for the right person. As it is, Zemos plan was a good one and it got everyone fighting themselves. Zemo ultimately won in Civil War. But not because cap was ever wrong. But because cap had to fight uphill against his allies because he was right.

The only one undoing the snap or defeating Thanos is......



Thanos......

 Easy E wrote:
The only one undoing the snap or defeating Thanos is......



Thanos......

Or....





...Alpharius?

I think Easy E has it.


They need Thor and Captain Marvel (and Hulk?) to fight their way through Thanos' armies and legions and navies and so on to reach him. This will provide much of the visual spectacle of the film

From there-on though, I think it will all come down to something quieter, more personal for a finale. Steve and Tony talking to Thanos, genuinely reuniting and working together. - Giving their character arc closure.

The argument, I think will be. "We do not trade lives" - the arc words of Infinity War. - Perhaps Tony talking about Peter, Cap talking about Bucky?

And the life that Thanos traded? Gamora's. He'll be convinced that it wasn't worth it.

This is all my theory of course.

I also think that there's a chance that the ending might also come down to in order to undo the snap by using, the soulstone needs another soul.

I can imagine something like Cap saying. "This isn't a trade, this is a choice. I was supposed to die 75 years ago. This is it. This is my choice. It's been an honour." *SNAP*

I've seen a persistent rumour of Steve dancing with Peggy. - One could imagine that sort of scene being lit up under the soulstones light.


Although it could just as reasonably be Tony sacrificing himself. - Which would fall under theRetirony and Widowed At the Wedding for Pepper.

And would call back to the discussions about him not being the one to do the sacrifical play. - But maybe that's been resolved already with the first Avengers film?

Regarding the whole Captain America vs Captain Marvel thing: it really doesn't matter what Steve is or is not, what he brings to the table or what his role on the team is. Chris Evans has stated his intent to leave the franchise. They aren't going to just recast the character. So either way Cap is going to be replaced with SOMEBODY. Iron Man as well. Its an inevitability.

I'm curious to see how Marvel handles it, but I think "Steve Rogers and Tony Stark hang around the MCU for another 5-10 years" is completely off the table.

 Compel wrote:
I think Easy E has it.


They need Thor and Captain Marvel (and Hulk?) to fight their way through Thanos' armies and legions and navies and so on to reach him. This will provide much of the visual spectacle of the film

From there-on though, I think it will all come down to something quieter, more personal for a finale. Steve and Tony talking to Thanos, genuinely reuniting and working together. - Giving their character arc closure.

The argument, I think will be. "We do not trade lives" - the arc words of Infinity War. - Perhaps Tony talking about Peter, Cap talking about Bucky?

And the life that Thanos traded? Gamora's. He'll be convinced that it wasn't worth it.

This is all my theory of course.

I also think that there's a chance that the ending might also come down to in order to undo the snap by using, the soulstone needs another soul.

I can imagine something like Cap saying. "This isn't a trade, this is a choice. I was supposed to die 75 years ago. This is it. This is my choice. It's been an honour." *SNAP*

I've seen a persistent rumour of Steve dancing with Peggy. - One could imagine that sort of scene being lit up under the soulstones light.


Although it could just as reasonably be Tony sacrificing himself. - Which would fall under theRetirony and Widowed At the Wedding for Pepper.

And would call back to the discussions about him not being the one to do the sacrifical play. - But maybe that's been resolved already with the first Avengers film?

Has Thanos even got armies and hordes of minions any more - The end of the film seemed to suggest he just when to live on his own somewhere - all of the named characters that served him are dead (or as dead as anything in comic based universe).

Thats not to say that those who have lost loved ones may be hunting for him - to set it right, get vengeance, woship him etc etc - earth is only one small planet.

I like much of the rest of your post - except I want Pepper and Tony to have a happing ending I am sure RDJ will pop in for cameos for a suitcase of money or just do his voice.

Isn;t the Winter Soldier just going to become the new Cap A

I think the next phase is going to go much more cosmic focus.

It wont be "who takes caps place on the avengers" because it wont be about the avengers.

I could see fantastic 4 get introduced. And through that the negative zone and annhilus. Throw in nova. Silver surfer. Cap marvel. The kree skrull war. Adam warlock and the guardians of the galaxy.

Then do annhilation wave.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, again, my money is on Nebula undoing the snap. She will get the gauntlet. She will undo it. And in the process she will take gamoras place in the soul gem.

 Compel wrote:

The argument, I think will be. "We do not trade lives" - the arc words of Infinity War. - Perhaps Tony talking about Peter, Cap talking about Bucky?

And the life that Thanos traded? Gamora's. He'll be convinced that it wasn't worth it.

This is all my theory of course.

I imagine there is something to that as Red Skull tells Thanos that everyone thinks that they are ready to make the sacrifice but all of them are wrong which seems to imply that Thanos is going to regret it as well.

BlaxicanX wrote:Regarding the whole Captain America vs Captain Marvel thing: it really doesn't matter what Steve is or is not, what he brings to the table or what his role on the team is. Chris Evans has stated his intent to leave the franchise. They aren't going to just recast the character. So either way Cap is going to be replaced with SOMEBODY. Iron Man as well. Its an inevitability.

I'm curious to see how Marvel handles it, but I think "Steve Rogers and Tony Stark hang around the MCU for another 5-10 years" is completely off the table.

Bucky or Sam are probably going to be taking Cap's place...

Lance845 wrote:
Also, again, my money is on Nebula undoing the snap. She will get the gauntlet. She will undo it. And in the process she will take gamoras place in the soul gem.

Well, there's certainly a precedence for that happening - at least, in the Comics!

 Lance845 wrote:
I think the next phase is going to go much more cosmic focus.

It wont be "who takes caps place on the avengers" because it wont be about the avengers.

I could see fantastic 4 get introduced. And through that the negative zone and annhilus. Throw in nova. Silver surfer. Cap marvel. The kree skrull war. Adam warlock and the guardians of the galaxy.

Then do annhilation wave.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, again, my money is on Nebula undoing the snap. She will get the gauntlet. She will undo it. And in the process she will take gamoras place in the soul gem.

I am in on Annihilation Wave. That would be real interesting. Even the Celestials get involved there if I remember, seeing some of the Cosmic Constants would be interesting. Isn't Galactus a key player in that though? Like, isn't that the one where he goes 1 on 1 with Eternity or something and he is eventually vindicated as a good guy? (Been a while since I read up on it and might be getting arcs mixed)

If they don't kill Cap and Tony off in Endgame, I expect to see Tony show up as an AI voice and Cap(If they convince Chris to do some cameos) take over the job of Nick Fury. Steve has gone underground in the comics before, I could see them putting Cap on hiatus in the hopes that in 5-10 years Chris will want back in the game.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Compel wrote:

The argument, I think will be. "We do not trade lives" - the arc words of Infinity War. - Perhaps Tony talking about Peter, Cap talking about Bucky?

And the life that Thanos traded? Gamora's. He'll be convinced that it wasn't worth it.

This is all my theory of course.

I imagine there is something to that as Red Skull tells Thanos that everyone thinks that they are ready to make the sacrifice but all of them are wrong which seems to imply that Thanos is going to regret it as well.

I think what he meant there was that Thanos is not ready because Thanos does not understand the price. When Thanos realized it, he already didn't want to do it. You could see it in his eyes. He probably has some serious regret and hate for himself. I assume that Thanos, cosmically powered as he is, can fall to depression.

Looks like Captain Marvel is down to a 28% Rotten Tomatoes score.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Looks like Captain Marvel is down to a 28% Rotten Tomatoes score.

Might be significant, but I'm not attaching too much importance to that just yet, given how many seasoned culture warriors will have had the knives out for this movie right from the start.

 Elemental wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Looks like Captain Marvel is down to a 28% Rotten Tomatoes score.

Might be significant, but I'm not attaching too much importance to that just yet, given how many seasoned culture warriors will have had the knives out for this movie right from the start.

I dont know man, thats 34000 "seasoned culture warriors", if you go and read the comments you will find some of those but the overwhelming majority are just normal people, that being said though, who cares, its rotten tomatoes, they are hardly to be trusted anyway

34000 people havent seen the movie yet. Its not out. Only some press screening have happened. I very much doubt 34000 seats of press screanings exist.

 Lance845 wrote:
34000 people havent seen the movie yet. Its not out. Only some press screening have happened. I very much doubt 34000 seats of press screanings exist.

The ranking is “want to see it” which.... okay? Honestly that’s a thing I learned exists today.