Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Quiet, you 😂😂

For a moment there I thought I had forgot to watch last week.

So far this season of The Bad Batch has been divided into two distinct themes:

1. The Bad Batch goes to get something, and fails.
2. Not The Bad Batch.

The second episode from yesterday brought those two themes together... and Echo left.

Not sure where the series goes from here. Can it really go back to getting jobs from Cid, going to the job, failing the job, come back empty handed, rinse/repeat?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
For a moment there I thought I had forgot to watch last week.

So far this season of The Bad Batch has been divided into two distinct themes:

1. The Bad Batch goes to get something, and fails.
2. Not The Bad Batch.

The second episode from yesterday brought those two themes together... and Echo left.

Not sure where the series goes from here. Can it really go back to getting jobs from Cid, going to the job, failing the job, come back empty handed, rinse/repeat?

See, it's the Gilligan's island dilemma.

If they ever succeed and strike it rich, then their problems are solved and the series is over.

So they can only ever fail.

But how many times can you fail before someone realizes 'this show is stupid and its setting is too empty.'

And that's why Firefly was canceled. Because no one wants to watch a show about a loveable gang of rogues who are only ever allowed to fail because success would render their struggles moot and the only reason people love it is because the show was cancelled before anyone learned to hate how pointless it all was.

...

What show were we talking about?

Except 'success' isn't really the point. Its whether, with the transition to the Empire, are they going to stay out of it all and hide, or are they going to take action?

Given that its a show about them, action is inevitable (unlike Gilligan's Island, where the island isolation is the point). The only question was how long the writers were going to faff about before getting on with it.

Voss wrote:
Except 'success' isn't really the point. Its whether, with the transition to the Empire, are they going to stay out of it all and hide, or are they going to take action?.

That's what the trailers promised, but honestly you could have fooled me. The most interesting character arc in the entire season so far was Commander Cody. Can we get a show about him? I'd watch a show about him.

Technically they successfully got the item they were sent to recover this episode. It’s not their fault the senate is full of morons.

 LordofHats wrote:

And that's why Firefly was cancelled. Because no one wants to watch a show about a loveable gang of rogues who are only ever allowed to fail because success would render their struggles moot and the only reason people love it is because the show was cancelled before anyone learned to hate how pointless it all was.

I wait what?
Most of their jobs weren't of the "oh we'll never have to work again" kind. A few were high paying but nothing in the same league as being "millionaires"

I mean I get what you mean but Firefly is just the most absurd one to pick for that comparison. It failed because the person in charge of the show slots purposefully killed it by scheduling it against big draw shows on other channels; showed it out of order and at different times. It was setup to utterly fail. We never saw it even settle into its repeat show pattern properly. We've no idea if it would have settled on rogues doing things or if it might have gone any number of different pathways in time.


Also you're overlooking the fact that many people to enjoy regular show structures. You only have to look at something like NCIS to see that. Of course I agree that there comes a point where it feels a little thin and weak; however I'd argue that most decently written series can go on for a good few seasons worth of shows before they hit saturation point.

I know. I'm just being trolly in calling out Firefly because I think the show is very overrated and the Gilligan's Island Problem is why.

There's only really 1 plot in the show, and that 1 plot only ever ends 1 of 1 ways because 2 is out the question. Mal can't get rich no matter how hard he tries if any of his get rich schemes ever worked the show would be over.

On Gilligan's island, it's getting off the island.

So you don't make the show about getting off the island. You make the island a situational comedy and the show is about the situation more than escaping it. Firefly didn't do that really. Instead, it ends up constantly looking for reasons for his current job to fail because the cast isn't allowed to succeed. And who wants to watch a show about a bunch of losers? Firefly just got cancelled before the 1 trick pony plot of the show could really run dry so it endures a golden reputation because it's premise wasn't turned into a beaten horse corpse.

Bad Batch has spent most of season 2 trapped in framing itself with the Gilligan's Island problem which is weird because the trailers advertised it as having a different conflict but they used up 2/3rd of the season before even getting to it.

TLDR: The season was mostly filler. Filler sucks. Even when Filler is good it sucks. The best filler episode didn't even feature the main cast.

princeyg wrote:
Just finished ep.7.

Wow! that was great.

Mostly.

I do wonder how so many people can just recognize Cody on sight. Like they aren't all clones, or something.


Ep8 - I have questions.

Weird how Rex used his stunner on the assassin... I mean he didn't know it was a Clone... hmm...

Anyway, I'm with LordofHats on this, and the Gilligan's Island example is apt. The Bad Batch constantly going on jobs and always always losing becomes quite tiresome.

Even - and I realise how sacrilegious it is to say this given it is the greatest piece of art humanity has ever created - Cowboy Bebop has this problem. They always come up against big bountyheads with huge payouts, and I think they have maybe 1 or 2 successes across the entire show's run. They are always running on empty, with next to no food, and most of their bounties end up with them never being able to collect.

I thought the assassin was Crosshair at first. I have to think we were meant to think so.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Weird how Rex used his stunner on the assassin... I mean he didn't know it was a Clone... hmm...

I just assumed he wanted to interrogate the assassin, whoever it was under the helmet.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I thought the assassin was Crosshair at first. I have to think we were meant to think so.

He wouldn't've missed. That's how I knew it wasn't Crosshair.

 insaniak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Weird how Rex used his stunner on the assassin... I mean he didn't know it was a Clone... hmm...

I just assumed he wanted to interrogate the assassin, whoever it was under the helmet.

That and he didn’t know it was an assassin. He heard gunshots, and went to investigate. Saw an unknown person shooting at an unknown other person. Chose cautious intervention and stunned the person with the gun until he could find out more information about the situation. Course he Did then just immediately take the word of the person still awake at face value…

 AduroT wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Weird how Rex used his stunner on the assassin... I mean he didn't know it was a Clone... hmm...

I just assumed he wanted to interrogate the assassin, whoever it was under the helmet.

That and he didn’t know it was an assassin. He heard gunshots, and went to investigate. Saw an unknown person shooting at an unknown other person. Chose cautious intervention and stunned the person with the gun until he could find out more information about the situation. Course he Did then just immediately take the word of the person still awake at face value…

I don't think that's a problem. He would know that Riyo is one of Padme's pals. He'd have no reason to distrust her.

Hopefully these two episodes are the pebbles of merit that lead to an avalanche of compelling story telling.

We’ve had a seemingly last gasp at looking after the surviving Clones, and even keeping them in their jobs. We’ve seen a realisation that Palpatine is way ahead of everyone else, so politicking is now extremely unlikely to succeed.

That now brings us to “we’ll have to take our fate into our own hands” type territory.

Yeah, seeing the senate in action should be the wake up call they need. If not that, what else would get them involved?

Voss wrote:
Ep8 - I have questions.

Spoiler:

Everyone knows what the clones look like. No one even bats an eye at this little blond girl claiming to be one, just accepts it as true and not a big deal. But not going through the accelerated growth should raise at least thoughts in people's heads, especially when they're knee deep in clone related shenanigans. So what the heck?

And why take her into the Senate where various people who might know something will see her? I'm a little puzzled that Rampart didn't recognize her on the spot, but can't be asked to go check season 1 to see if they ever crossed paths- but she was the MacGuffin of season 1, so her wandering around publicly should raise flags.

On the first point,



As for the second point,

That and she was utterly unimportant to anyone but the Kaminoans. Her only role was being a source of raw dna from which to make more clones. Since they’re not making clones anymore she’s irrelevant.

 Geifer wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Weird how Rex used his stunner on the assassin... I mean he didn't know it was a Clone... hmm...

I just assumed he wanted to interrogate the assassin, whoever it was under the helmet.

That and he didn’t know it was an assassin. He heard gunshots, and went to investigate. Saw an unknown person shooting at an unknown other person. Chose cautious intervention and stunned the person with the gun until he could find out more information about the situation. Course he Did then just immediately take the word of the person still awake at face value…

I don't think that's a problem. He would know that Riyo is one of Padme's pals. He'd have no reason to distrust her.

I'm not sure that Kenobi's field commander would have a friend's list for his boss' student's secret lover.

She also seemed young and new to all this political maneuvering, which suggests to me that she hasn't been around all that long.

More importantly, Organa seemed real cautious of her, and took time to feel her out, and he was definitely one of Padme's pals. If she was part of that circle, his presence in the episode outside the Senate floor makes no sense.


Now, she's not very secretive and its more likely that some clone she talked to shared info with Cody. Don't know that he'd entirely trust her motives, but he'd have reason to know who she is.

AduroT wrote:That and she was utterly unimportant to anyone but the Kaminoans. Her only role was being a source of raw dna from which to make more clones. Since they’re not making clones anymore she’s irrelevant.

I'm impressed that you just made me dislike season 1 even more. If all that running about and screaming was pointless, that speaks poorly of the narrative thread and connective tissue.

Well I mean she had her big purpose during season one’s story arc, just that story was resolved quite explosively at the end of the season. Now she has as much purpose as any other member of the Batch. She’s just not someone anyone in the Senate would know about to recognize her or care.

 AduroT wrote:
Well I mean she had her big purpose during season one’s story arc, just that story was resolved quite explosively at the end of the season. Now she has as much purpose as any other member of the Batch. She’s just not someone anyone in the Senate would know about to recognize her or care.

I vaguely remember some Kaminoans being dispatched to elsewhere and other parties having an interest, so I don't know if I'd call that resolved.

She also raises questions of 'do clones have a future?' and they just re-raised the old question of , so 'just one of the Batch' isn't really satisfying from a story perspective. They're either setting her up as The Clone's Legacy, or there's even more plans for her. A dropped thread from season 1 who's just one of the gang simply doesn't work in this narrative format.

I'm pretty sure helpful boss clone in the last two episodes was Rex, not Cody.

Senator Chuchi has been in Clone Wars since the first or second season*, whenever the ice planet episode happened. She'd be Pantora's senator for at least four or five years at this point in the Bad Batch. I don't think she's in Padme's inner circle but they got along well, worked together on some anti-war issues and their votes in the senate aligned at least most of the time. She came to Ahsoka for help via Padme. I think that qualifies as close enough to Padme to make her trustworthy.

Bail probably has trust issues because he's been setting up a rebellion against the Empire even before the Empire was founded, so he might just be extra cautious at this point and not let anyone in without being absolutely sure of their character for fear of having his rebellion crushed before it has the means to fight back.


* Edit: Definitely since season one now that I think about it. She's in the senate hostage situation as well.

I don’t think even other Kaminoans would care about Omega at this point, if they were even of rank or position to recognize her. She was only needed to keep making more clone troopers, and that government contract is quite well dead irregardless.

So yes, very important to season one’s story about the continuing clone production. Still important now as a member of Bad Batch on the show called Bad Batch. She doesn’t need to have some super grand destiny, she’s fine just being the Heart or Childlike Innocence of the team.

Omega was valuable for what she represented rather than as an individual. She was a pure clone of Jango Fett, and we all know that thanks to a spectacularly bad film the Emperor is setting himself up to be the Sith Eternal. The science that made Omega is valuable and she holds that science in her genetics and such.

 Geifer wrote:
I'm pretty sure helpful boss clone in the last two episodes was Rex, not Cody.

Huh. That makes more sense. Clones, eh?

So yes, very important to season one’s story about the continuing clone production. Still important now as a member of Bad Batch on the show called Bad Batch. She doesn’t need to have some super grand destiny, she’s fine just being the Heart or Childlike Innocence of the team.

That's really not how Star Wars shows are written. Especially for distinctive children that stand out from the people around them. Super grand destinies are, unfortunately, handed out like candy in this universe.

Also, Childlike Innocence generally doesn't shoot lizard people in the head or get the gold-lust.

Voss wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I'm pretty sure helpful boss clone in the last two episodes was Rex, not Cody.

Huh. That makes more sense. Clones, eh?

Yeah, I'm the first one to admit that all these clones just look the same to me.

Aaaaaaand back to mediocre filler.

Hate to say it, but perhaps Clone Force 99 are just….too one dimensional to be interesting on their own?

Character building episode for my least favorite clone? Sure. Tech has to be one of the dumbest smart guys I’ve seen. And of course the stereotypical doesn’t get emotions/social cues/autistic thing.

The ever positive me can't bring himself to think of the episode as filler when...

They technically stole the better stuff they found as well. The episodes main plot in general is fairly pants on head stupid, but it’s just kind of there to ignore while they deal with some good character and emotional stuff, plus the ship.