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Made in us
Been Around the Block




Having spotted a pair of Goblin Wolf Rider scouts, Aldrik the Runesmith asked the Thane from Clan Dulrok to assemble his clan and neighbors to the defense of the hold in the face of the incoming green menace!

2000 pts battle report that pit Dwarfs vs Orcs & Goblins after the click -> https://www.livewaaaaagh.com/battle-reports/2018/10/6/warhammer-fantasy-battle-report-dwarfs-vs-orcs-goblins-oct-2018

LiveWaaaaagh.com 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Cookie cutter O&G with all the full cheese. The stunties need to up their game.

Gyrocopters to slow down the advance, Miners to kill the warmachines, several options to try.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Orlanth wrote:
Cookie cutter O&G with all the full cheese. The stunties need to up their game.

Gyrocopters to slow down the advance, Miners to kill the warmachines, several options to try.


A cookie cutter build I hadn't faced before (just not a lot of experience vs O&G). As a result, the exact units you mentioned (gyros and miners) are currently being painted and will be ready for the next game.

Thank you for reading!

LiveWaaaaagh.com 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

O&G has only a few common items in the meta.

Top list:

Savage Orc big'uns with Shaman with shrunken head
Trolls
Black Orc BSB
Mangler Squigs
Wolf rider chaff
Doom diver

Common adds:

Black Orcs
Wolf chariots
Pump wagons
Night goblins
Giant
Rok lobbers

After that comes everything else. Now there are a lot of orc players who don't follow the meta. I didnt, I have no savage orcs and no night goblins, basic orcs are workable but do not win against meta builds only other casual players.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/10 16:49:25


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Again, thank you for the comment! I've played against Goblin-heavy armies with Mangler Squigs, Trolls and Night Goblins. However, I sort of prepared for Trolls with the Irondrakes and the rune of Burning on the OG. What I wasn't ready for were 12 trolls. :(

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





LiveWaaaaagh wrote:
Again, thank you for the comment! I've played against Goblin-heavy armies with Mangler Squigs, Trolls and Night Goblins. However, I sort of prepared for Trolls with the Irondrakes and the rune of Burning on the OG. What I wasn't ready for were 12 trolls. :(


The trolls never got into combat though....

I'd agree with some of the comments above. However I think your army choice would have struggled with a lot of other armies.

You had only 40 front line troops to somehow combat 65 tough O&G models + 12 trolls. That was never going to work. Dwarfs work by grinding down their opponents, you can't do that without a decent sized core army so you can absorb incoming fire from spells/artillery etc.

Almost 25% of your army was spent on artillery - this is too much. This was compounded by the being used in artillery duel which is not their prime purpose and basically comes down to luck of the die. Instead they should have been targeting down the savage orc group which both gives a better chance to hit even with scatter and starts to weaken it prior to the first engagement. If you want something to take out the artillery you want a small unit of miners/gyrocopters.

Watch the rune cost - remember that for each 8 pts you can get another warrior. Each 12 pts is another thunderer/crossbow dwarf. Keep a limit to these and have an idea of what you want for them to specifically. You spent a lot on anti-magic and it did very little. In my view it can look good on paper but can have limited effect. Perhaps one runic item for anti magic.

Also remember to focus fire. A few wounds scattered across several units is less of an impact than more on one unit.

Charging into the savage orcs was always going to fail without them having being whittled down first. Dwarfs are not high damage dealers, they work better on a narrow frontage. If you are charging into a unit that has been set up with a large number of files (and less ranks) then they want to engage on that wide frontage so they can deal out lots of damage. If you minimise your frontage then you are neutralising the purpose of a wide front.

Really you never wanted to engage that savage orc unit immediately. This is where gyrocopters are your friend. Two of these could have run rings round them. Not only could you use them to try an force a frenzied charge but angling them in a specific way pulls that unit out of formation. Even if they pass the restraint test they are still blocking movement and have to decide how to get rid of it (or just sit there for you to plough more fire into them). If they charge, potentially, the trolls are then testing on Ld4 for stupidity if the general moves out of bubble range and then that unit is not quite as scary.

Other things I would note is why 15 Thunderers with command? Two units of 10 (possibly one crossbow for the range) and you have more options. Any decent unit will roll over them anyway so the command is of less use.

Why the Runelord? A Runesmith does effectively the same thing but is a bit weaker. You can then consider a Lord instead. You can even set him up with a 1+ save, +2 wounds (gromril shieldbearers,, rune of stone), and 4+ Ward (or perhaps T10 but expensive). And then a great weapon The lord can then play the same game as the gyrocopters. Run into the savage orc unit and then just sit there. That completely negates the purpose of the unit and then the rest of the army can tear into the rest. S6 will give most challengers some pause for thought (or perhaps hand weapon and rune that double S against T5+ against O&G which would double your strength against the heroes and trolls).

Why the master engineer? You've scattered the artillery so widely that if the one it is supporting destroyed the primary purpose is nullified. This could be dropped for a Runesmith.

Also perhaps consider some more terrain to break up line of sight more. Finally it appears most games are battlelines. Randomising the scenarios can keep things a bit more honest as you have to consider the different victoy conditions that are possible.

Just some thoughts

"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

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"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

I agree with most of the above assessment, but it does make assumptions on the list that are not true. Such as the Runelord.

Lets look at the army line by line:

General – Runesmith w/Master rune of Balance, 1x Rune of Iron, 1x Rune of Stone

Pointless. A runesmith is there for the 'scroll caddy', either the 25pt Rune of Spellbreaking or the 45pt one. master rune of Balance is a bad buy, you cause the opponent to lose one power dice which will not be enough to stop them 5 dice casting a nasty spell unless they dont roll that high on 2d6, in which case you normally have enough dispel dice anyway. The dawi got unlucky in that the winds of magic were strong that day. The runesmith needs few other runes, Spellbreaking is his purpose. A shield gromril armour and rune of stone is acceptable.
You can still keep him as army general if points are tight.

Master Engineer w/GW + Rune of Stone

Drop the great weapon and he wont need the rune. In fact just drop the engineer. He is good if you have the right warmachine, more on this later. If you want an engineer take the special character Grim Burloksson, you pay +95pts for him but he is worth it. Burloksson does lack a ward save and has only a 4+ for an important character, so he needs to be in a unit, preferably with the BSB listed below. This does not effect his functionality. His main asset is giving a warmachine BS5 on a 2+, this means a runed up organ gun, the same organ gun is also provided one reroll making it very reliable.
On top of this he is armed with an assault rifle causing 2d3 S4 S5 shots which is a miniwarmachine of itself, and he can stand and shoot with that, which will likely add up a combat res tally before the Ironbreakers have to swing. He attacks at S6 without ASL, but still only I2. You don't want him in combat if you can help it, but he can hold well against grobi if needs be.

Thane BSB w/Master Rune of Grugni + shield.

I cant really argue with this pick.

20x Longbeards w/shields & FC. Rune of Stoicism.

Longbeards should be downgrade to warriors. S4 and immunity to panic is not worth +4pts per dwarf, dawi dont run and they dont need runes to tell them this. Save some points for needed changes.

15x Thunderers w/shields, musician and STD.

ok, though you can save points here, and also deploy two units instead of one. Keep the musician. Get the musician to a healer, he has been a dirty little dwarf.

20x Ironbreakers w/FC. Rune of Stoicism, Rune of Sanctuary.

Ironbreakers are good, but they dont need stubborn, they dont bleed much. Instead give them a better magic defence.

1x Grudge Thrower w/ Rune of Accuracy and Rune of forging

Underperforming and overpriced. You pay 50pts for insurance on an 80pt S3 weapon. O&G can take that. If you want scary Grudge throwers take two basic Grudge throwers with no runes. Better yet take a single Flame cannon. This you should place Rune of Forging on.

1x Cannon w/rune of forging

I cant say dont take cannon, you never know when they will be useful. If you dont take Grim Burloksson do take the cannon. give it Rune of Burning and maybe Rune of Forging if you like.

1x Organ Gun w/rune of accuracy

Now this and the cannon are either/or if you take Grim take the organ gun, if not take the cannon. Back either with the single Flame cannon with Rune of forging as your two artillery pieces.
If you take Grim make this his gun and make it count. Rune of Penetrating and Rune of Burning for maximum devastation with BS5 and reroll.
If you want to go cheap with a basic engineer drop the Rune of Penetration also.

10x Irondrakes w/FC & 2x rune of slowness

Drop them, If you cant burny do it properly, see above, Buy more core warriors and thunderers/quarrelers.

Add ons.

Two gyrocopters,
Two small units of miners.
More core dwarfs, keep em cheap.
Bolt throwers.

The bolt throwers need some explaining, they are your anti chaff flankers. Most armies use a light skirmish unit for flank protection, dawi use a war machine. ote that I have not added the bolt thorwers t your list of artillery because they are ot in truth. Sure they get a nice shot off each turn, but their main purpose in your army is to be 55pts of stubborn. Flanking light cavalry like to engage warmachines, in this case let them. Dont give them any runes or support, maybe just a Rune of Burning, if you haven't used a solo rune yet. This will make them nasty vs trolls, but they are good for killing black orcs and wolf riders too. Point is that its 110pts of flank security (one each side) to keep your main missile units on purpose, they are not very accurate, and may or may not pay for themselves, and while damage is potentially very good it doesn't matter too much if they miss all game so long as they remain at their weapon when charged.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/13 14:47:45


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Whirlwind wrote:
LiveWaaaaagh wrote:
Again, thank you for the comment! I've played against Goblin-heavy armies with Mangler Squigs, Trolls and Night Goblins. However, I sort of prepared for Trolls with the Irondrakes and the rune of Burning on the OG. What I wasn't ready for were 12 trolls. :(


The trolls never got into combat though....

I'd agree with some of the comments above. However I think your army choice would have struggled with a lot of other armies.

You had only 40 front line troops to somehow combat 65 tough O&G models + 12 trolls. That was never going to work. Dwarfs work by grinding down their opponents, you can't do that without a decent sized core army so you can absorb incoming fire from spells/artillery etc.

Almost 25% of your army was spent on artillery - this is too much. This was compounded by the being used in artillery duel which is not their prime purpose and basically comes down to luck of the die. Instead they should have been targeting down the savage orc group which both gives a better chance to hit even with scatter and starts to weaken it prior to the first engagement. If you want something to take out the artillery you want a small unit of miners/gyrocopters.

Watch the rune cost - remember that for each 8 pts you can get another warrior. Each 12 pts is another thunderer/crossbow dwarf. Keep a limit to these and have an idea of what you want for them to specifically. You spent a lot on anti-magic and it did very little. In my view it can look good on paper but can have limited effect. Perhaps one runic item for anti magic.

Also remember to focus fire. A few wounds scattered across several units is less of an impact than more on one unit.

Charging into the savage orcs was always going to fail without them having being whittled down first. Dwarfs are not high damage dealers, they work better on a narrow frontage. If you are charging into a unit that has been set up with a large number of files (and less ranks) then they want to engage on that wide frontage so they can deal out lots of damage. If you minimise your frontage then you are neutralising the purpose of a wide front.

Really you never wanted to engage that savage orc unit immediately. This is where gyrocopters are your friend. Two of these could have run rings round them. Not only could you use them to try an force a frenzied charge but angling them in a specific way pulls that unit out of formation. Even if they pass the restraint test they are still blocking movement and have to decide how to get rid of it (or just sit there for you to plough more fire into them). If they charge, potentially, the trolls are then testing on Ld4 for stupidity if the general moves out of bubble range and then that unit is not quite as scary.

Other things I would note is why 15 Thunderers with command? Two units of 10 (possibly one crossbow for the range) and you have more options. Any decent unit will roll over them anyway so the command is of less use.

Why the Runelord? A Runesmith does effectively the same thing but is a bit weaker. You can then consider a Lord instead. You can even set him up with a 1+ save, +2 wounds (gromril shieldbearers,, rune of stone), and 4+ Ward (or perhaps T10 but expensive). And then a great weapon The lord can then play the same game as the gyrocopters. Run into the savage orc unit and then just sit there. That completely negates the purpose of the unit and then the rest of the army can tear into the rest. S6 will give most challengers some pause for thought (or perhaps hand weapon and rune that double S against T5+ against O&G which would double your strength against the heroes and trolls).

Why the master engineer? You've scattered the artillery so widely that if the one it is supporting destroyed the primary purpose is nullified. This could be dropped for a Runesmith.

Also perhaps consider some more terrain to break up line of sight more. Finally it appears most games are battlelines. Randomising the scenarios can keep things a bit more honest as you have to consider the different victoy conditions that are possible.

Just some thoughts


Lot to unpack here, but first of all, thank you for reading and thank you for the comment. Let's start there!

- Is the army I brought absolute top notch? No - it's not meant for tournament and it's one limited by models, more than anything else. I was out of the hobby for about a year, so I hadn't really painted anything in a long time. Not an excuse, just saying that I'm limited by models, not that I didn't want to bring a gyro, for example. It just never got painted when I got it. It'll be painted this week though!
Why the 15 thunderers, for example, instead of 2 units of 10? Well, because I have 15 and I needed to hit min. core.
The runelord was a runesmith actually, and I was trying out a Master Rune of Balance that I've seen used in the past.

- I think some comments might be benefiting from the ol' hindsight is 20x20. I had no idea what he was going to bring - how competitive or cheese of a list was coming at me. And O&Gs are an army that I persona;lly don't have much experience with because my last group (before I moved) had 0. The 20 IBs and 20LBs have stood in front of several armies in the past and either come up on top, or at least it was a much better fight. Plus, I just don't have more models. hehe

Beyond that, some items are preference, I think. For example, the OG with Engineer and Rune of Accuracy has worked very, very well in the past. His blocking it, and 2 lackluster roll of dice didn't make it very strong 0- I don't think I ever rolled more than 10 on the artillery dice rolls. But it's something that has worked for me in the past rather well.

But we agree: A gyro or two, and/or maybe a unit of miners would have done great things.

LiveWaaaaagh.com 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Orlanth wrote:
I agree with most of the above assessment, but it does make assumptions on the list that are not true. Such as the Runelord.

Lets look at the army line by line:

General – Runesmith w/Master rune of Balance, 1x Rune of Iron, 1x Rune of Stone

Pointless. A runesmith is there for the 'scroll caddy', either the 25pt Rune of Spellbreaking or the 45pt one. master rune of Balance is a bad buy, you cause the opponent to lose one power dice which will not be enough to stop them 5 dice casting a nasty spell unless they dont roll that high on 2d6, in which case you normally have enough dispel dice anyway. The dawi got unlucky in that the winds of magic were strong that day. The runesmith needs few other runes, Spellbreaking is his purpose. A shield gromril armour and rune of stone is acceptable.
You can still keep him as army general if points are tight.

Master Engineer w/GW + Rune of Stone

Drop the great weapon and he wont need the rune. In fact just drop the engineer. He is good if you have the right warmachine, more on this later. If you want an engineer take the special character Grim Burloksson, you pay +95pts for him but he is worth it. Burloksson does lack a ward save and has only a 4+ for an important character, so he needs to be in a unit, preferably with the BSB listed below. This does not effect his functionality. His main asset is giving a warmachine BS5 on a 2+, this means a runed up organ gun, the same organ gun is also provided one reroll making it very reliable.
On top of this he is armed with an assault rifle causing 2d3 S4 S5 shots which is a miniwarmachine of itself, and he can stand and shoot with that, which will likely add up a combat res tally before the Ironbreakers have to swing. He attacks at S6 without ASL, but still only I2. You don't want him in combat if you can help it, but he can hold well against grobi if needs be.

Thane BSB w/Master Rune of Grugni + shield.

I cant really argue with this pick.

20x Longbeards w/shields & FC. Rune of Stoicism.

Longbeards should be downgrade to warriors. S4 and immunity to panic is not worth +4pts per dwarf, dawi dont run and they dont need runes to tell them this. Save some points for needed changes.

15x Thunderers w/shields, musician and STD.

ok, though you can save points here, and also deploy two units instead of one. Keep the musician. Get the musician to a healer, he has been a dirty little dwarf.

20x Ironbreakers w/FC. Rune of Stoicism, Rune of Sanctuary.

Ironbreakers are good, but they dont need stubborn, they dont bleed much. Instead give them a better magic defence.

1x Grudge Thrower w/ Rune of Accuracy and Rune of forging

Underperforming and overpriced. You pay 50pts for insurance on an 80pt S3 weapon. O&G can take that. If you want scary Grudge throwers take two basic Grudge throwers with no runes. Better yet take a single Flame cannon. This you should place Rune of Forging on.

1x Cannon w/rune of forging

I cant say dont take cannon, you never know when they will be useful. If you dont take Grim Burloksson do take the cannon. give it Rune of Burning and maybe Rune of Forging if you like.

1x Organ Gun w/rune of accuracy

Now this and the cannon are either/or if you take Grim take the organ gun, if not take the cannon. Back either with the single Flame cannon with Rune of forging as your two artillery pieces.
If you take Grim make this his gun and make it count. Rune of Penetrating and Rune of Burning for maximum devastation with BS5 and reroll.
If you want to go cheap with a basic engineer drop the Rune of Penetration also.

10x Irondrakes w/FC & 2x rune of slowness

Drop them, If you cant burny do it properly, see above, Buy more core warriors and thunderers/quarrelers.

Add ons.

Two gyrocopters,
Two small units of miners.
More core dwarfs, keep em cheap.
Bolt throwers.

The bolt throwers need some explaining, they are your anti chaff flankers. Most armies use a light skirmish unit for flank protection, dawi use a war machine. ote that I have not added the bolt thorwers t your list of artillery because they are ot in truth. Sure they get a nice shot off each turn, but their main purpose in your army is to be 55pts of stubborn. Flanking light cavalry like to engage warmachines, in this case let them. Dont give them any runes or support, maybe just a Rune of Burning, if you haven't used a solo rune yet. This will make them nasty vs trolls, but they are good for killing black orcs and wolf riders too. Point is that its 110pts of flank security (one each side) to keep your main missile units on purpose, they are not very accurate, and may or may not pay for themselves, and while damage is potentially very good it doesn't matter too much if they miss all game so long as they remain at their weapon when charged.


I think again, a lot of this is personal preference. For example, LBs vs Warriors - if I bring warriors, they'd be GW, not S&B. And I don't have those units.

The runesmith - I was trying a new rune combo to test our the Rue of Balance. No big deal there.

Engineer vs Burloksson - Yes, I've Burlokkson to great effect, but prefer sometimes to stick him with the Thunderers for the extras he brings to that unit. Engineer on a runed up OG has been very successful for me personally. So I'm not sure I agree on that one. The OG can easily hit on 3+ in long range, and 2+ in short range in what can be devastating attacks. Just a few low rolls, and his usage of Wolf Riders was good, in my opinion.

Agreed re: Grudge Thrower though.

Cannon - well, he could have brought a giant or an arachnorok, or a mangler squig. With those options, I think you have to bring a cannon.

Agreed againw ith some of the recos: I'm finishing painting a gyro (I don't liek to field non-painted models. And also have a unit of 10 miners half painted. So those two are the next additions to the army. Well... them and Belegar Ironhammer for certain more fluffy battles!

LiveWaaaaagh.com 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

LiveWaaaaagh wrote:

Cannon - well, he could have brought a giant or an arachnorok, or a mangler squig. With those options, I think you have to bring a cannon.


Never overestimate cannon, a lot can go wrong. You can misfire, you can fail to bounce, you can roll a 1 to wound and you can roll low on number of wounds caused. There is a sequence of dice and you need to get all the particulars to go your way, Now dont get me wrong often it will and everything requires the correct dice roll, but with canon there are an increaaed number of options that cause no effect, and d6 wounds can go both ways. You need two cannon to make good with them. Now an organ gun or helblaster will cause a large number of S5 shots and is pretty good at taking out monsters. Dwarfs have nice upgrades for both cannon and organ guns, if you can boost the BS then it becomes a superior option.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Orlanth wrote:
LiveWaaaaagh wrote:

Cannon - well, he could have brought a giant or an arachnorok, or a mangler squig. With those options, I think you have to bring a cannon.


Never overestimate cannon, a lot can go wrong. You can misfire, you can fail to bounce, you can roll a 1 to wound and you can roll low on number of wounds caused. There is a sequence of dice and you need to get all the particulars to go your way, Now dont get me wrong often it will and everything requires the correct dice roll, but with canon there are an increaaed number of options that cause no effect, and d6 wounds can go both ways. You need two cannon to make good with them. Now an organ gun or helblaster will cause a large number of S5 shots and is pretty good at taking out monsters. Dwarfs have nice upgrades for both cannon and organ guns, if you can boost the BS then it becomes a superior option.


Agreed!

LiveWaaaaagh.com 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Orlanth wrote:
LiveWaaaaagh wrote:

Cannon - well, he could have brought a giant or an arachnorok, or a mangler squig. With those options, I think you have to bring a cannon.


Never overestimate cannon, a lot can go wrong. You can misfire, you can fail to bounce, you can roll a 1 to wound and you can roll low on number of wounds caused. There is a sequence of dice and you need to get all the particulars to go your way, Now dont get me wrong often it will and everything requires the correct dice roll, but with canon there are an increaaed number of options that cause no effect, and d6 wounds can go both ways. You need two cannon to make good with them. Now an organ gun or helblaster will cause a large number of S5 shots and is pretty good at taking out monsters. Dwarfs have nice upgrades for both cannon and organ guns, if you can boost the BS then it becomes a superior option.


My view is that you should always have a back up option in case something goes wrong. Relying on one individual model is problematic and leaves you open the vagaries of the dice. With two options it not only gets you opponent to split targets but it covers you if one goes wrong, gets splatted etc. That's why I preferred the Dwarf Lord for 2k because it can fill that back up option (in multiple roles at time). Yes you are a bit more exposed to magic, but then I never had much success running a Runelord instead of a Lord so maybe I'm biased.

I also appreciate that hindsight is a wonderful thing. It's easy to dismantle an army afterwards. My view is that 2k is a bit too small to be taking too many shiny things and more 'weaker' units with a few tools helps immeasurably helps avoid getting overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!

"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics 
   
Made in ie
Crazed Troll Slayer




An Tsaoir

Enjoyable battle to read through. I think as has been alluded to above that there is a bit too much elite stuff for a small army. A bit more chaff and at least one redirect unit or gyrocopter would also be beneficial.

A grudge never too old to settle with metal and ire on the funeral pyre of vanquished foe  
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Very cool. Although honestly I think the table needs more terrain. And spread around too rather than just in the middle of the board.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Whirlwind wrote:
 Orlanth wrote:
LiveWaaaaagh wrote:

Cannon - well, he could have brought a giant or an arachnorok, or a mangler squig. With those options, I think you have to bring a cannon.


Never overestimate cannon, a lot can go wrong. You can misfire, you can fail to bounce, you can roll a 1 to wound and you can roll low on number of wounds caused. There is a sequence of dice and you need to get all the particulars to go your way, Now dont get me wrong often it will and everything requires the correct dice roll, but with canon there are an increaaed number of options that cause no effect, and d6 wounds can go both ways. You need two cannon to make good with them. Now an organ gun or helblaster will cause a large number of S5 shots and is pretty good at taking out monsters. Dwarfs have nice upgrades for both cannon and organ guns, if you can boost the BS then it becomes a superior option.


My view is that you should always have a back up option in case something goes wrong. Relying on one individual model is problematic and leaves you open the vagaries of the dice. With two options it not only gets you opponent to split targets but it covers you if one goes wrong, gets splatted etc. That's why I preferred the Dwarf Lord for 2k because it can fill that back up option (in multiple roles at time). Yes you are a bit more exposed to magic, but then I never had much success running a Runelord instead of a Lord so maybe I'm biased.

I also appreciate that hindsight is a wonderful thing. It's easy to dismantle an army afterwards. My view is that 2k is a bit too small to be taking too many shiny things and more 'weaker' units with a few tools helps immeasurably helps avoid getting overwhelmed by sheer numbers.


Never take a Runelord unless you want the altar, a Runesmith does all you pay for him to do.
As for backups, an augment to BS or a reroll is a fair boost to reliability especially on a weapon that has a large volume of fire. individual shots, no matter how potentially powerful they are have a built in unreliability factor, you need to take multiples, a single organ gun properly augmented by skills or runes generates enough dice to play the numbers game. Yes it can still fail but then so can three cannon.

Dwarfs have some reliability in them and you can accept that a certsin unit will do what it is set up to do. Of course you can be wrong, stubborn Ld9 can still result in breaks, even Dwarf Lords sometimes run like cowards, of whiff their attacks with runed up axes. The thing is you often cannot afford to take a backup of every army element with the dawi, as everything costs so much, some things you need to rely on solo quality assets without backup and hope you don't roll impressively badly. With tight list management you can afford most of those asset bottlenecks. You might even be able to literally have two of everything you need, but you still don't have a backup, because dwarfs are a static army and even with the best deployment you cant have an army with two of everything who can afford primary asset and backup asset to overlap on the battle line, You simply do not have the mobility for that. Hence why I say that for some army assets you might have no choice but to rely on one model or unit to perform a specialist role with no backup available. Sometimes you will lose those capabilities, and you may lose them earlier than you would hope. Accept this and hold anyway with what assets you can afford while mounting superiority elsewhere and pressing to victory.
Dwarfs are powerful enough to be an easy army to not-lose with, but unless the opponent is rash and brings the victory to you you will find that dwarfs are a difficult army to win with on anything other than battles of raw attrition. The dawi require careful asset management and pre-placement strategy, runes give you enough rope to hang yourself with wastage while also hiding a win-button amongst them for you to find. The slow but prime dwarfen units need to be positioned oh-so carefully as you cant fix errors in deployment, every turn must be though out in advance especially as many units will need to spend nearly the entire game in uninterrupted march if you are forced to take the offensive. All in all there is a lot to go wrong, but if you manage to plan to have dwarfs in the right place at the right time there is no army that can stop them, not even daemons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/16 04:52:33


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

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Nice report, shame the stunties couldn't pull it out. Have you thought of a flame cannon to deal with those Trolls?

It's time to go full Skeletor  
   
 
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