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Why is Magnus fighting in Battle of the Fang taken out of context so much?
Magnus merely sent an avatar in Battle of the Fang (possessing the body of a commander) after enough anti Chaos runes were cleared out for him to manifest.





This happened roughly at the end of A Thousand Sons.

IT BEGAN WITH yet another earthquake, a common enough occurrence that no one paid any mind at first. A sullen mood had fallen upon the Thousand Sons, which was wholly expected, for what manner of man would not keenly feel the loss of his home, father and brothers?But this earthquake did not simply fade away after splitting yet another fissure in the endless volcanic plain while sealing another shut. Cracks spread from the centre of the plain in a radial pattern and a black diamond, like a thrusting basalt speartip, exploded upwards.It rose into the sky, pushing higher and higher and growing wider and wider with every passing moment until a new mountain had been birthed. Towering and steep-sided, it rose higher than Olympus Mons and the Mountain of Aghoru combined. Broken rocks tumbled from its impossible height, falling from its angular sides to craft a fringe comprising shattered Cyclopean stone and titanic blocks of strange angles and impossible perspectives.When the rain of dust and debris had ended, the Thousand Sons gathered at the base of this stupendous creation, knowing that nothing natural could have created so magnificent an edifice. Glowing fire arced from the distant mountain’s peak and a shimmering blue light suffused its entirety, as though lightning filled its tunnels like blood in a circulatory system.A bright shape descended from the mountaintop, a wavering and indistinct form wreathed in the light of stars and the power of infinite possibility. Brilliant wings of shimmering aetheric fire unfolded from the figure’s back, and the Thousand Sons fell to their knees as their father’s light spread over them.Magnus landed softly before his sons and they stared in amazement as his light illuminated the bleak darkness of the world. This was no corporeal shell of a subtle body as worn by the primarch when he had walked among them. This was a body of light that could exist beyond the confines of the Great Ocean. Magnus had sacrificed the flesh that had contained his essence, and in so doing had ascended to a more evolved form, one free from the constraints of mortality and the limits of reality.*“My sons,” said Magnus with weary resignation, “welcome to the Planet of the Sorcerers.”*​

As it said, he raised the Obsidian tower and ascended to a form "free from the constraints of mortality and the limits of reality."



He is too powerful to fully exist within the materium.



Right forum. And this is a different thread from the other.

Well, yes.

He's a daemon primarch - essentially a daemon prince; he can't be 'killed' any more than a daemon can - 'killing' his material form means at best banished unless something very out of the normal occurs.

What do you mean by "taken out of context"?

Basically leaving out that Magnus only sent a weakened avatar and was not at full power.

I'm not sure the phrase "weakened avatar" applies exactly - he's not deliberately weaking himself or sending a duplicate, he's manifesting as strongly as reality allows - but it's close enough; I get what you mean and it's not wort nitpicking over words.

It's like facing a summoned daemon (because that's essentially what he is); facing him on the planet of sorcerors in the Eye of Terror would be a different issue to facing a 'summoned form' on Luna or Fenris.

Also note that the weapon which was key to beating him on Fenris was the Axe Morkai which (whatever the Wolves claim) is at best a Khornate Rune Axe (I doubt it's still a 'true' daemon weapon) and I could see Khorne 'leaning in' to the fight given the opportunity to hurt one of his rivals foremost servants.

Battle of the Fang is way before the Axe of Morkai. Magnus only fought Bjorn and whatever the Great Wolf was called then. I've never seen why people whined about it tbh.

locarno24 wrote:
I'm not sure the phrase "weakened avatar" applies exactly - he's not deliberately weaking himself or sending a duplicate, he's manifesting as strongly as reality allows - but it's close enough; I get what you mean and it's not wort nitpicking over words.

It's like facing a summoned daemon (because that's essentially what he is); facing him on the planet of sorcerors in the Eye of Terror would be a different issue to facing a 'summoned form' on Luna or Fenris.

Also note that the weapon which was key to beating him on Fenris was the Axe Morkai which (whatever the Wolves claim) is at best a Khornate Rune Axe (I doubt it's still a 'true' daemon weapon) and I could see Khorne 'leaning in' to the fight given the opportunity to hurt one of his rivals foremost servants.

That is more or less what he did. He possessed a commander's body, an avatar, that was weakened from the Daemon wards.

Not sure what you mean by out of context, has somebody claimed that Magnus is no longer in existence?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Not sure what you mean by out of context, has somebody claimed that Magnus is no longer in existence?

Some people say Magnus at his prime as strong as he could be anywhere, the Warp or the materium, lost in Battle of the Fang.




Magnus casually walked through all their firepower, into a fortress that has so many anti-daemon wards that even Holy Terra was jealous. He then proceeded to butcher his way through, slaughtered the apothecaries thus denying the Space Wolves the cure to their geneseed, the wolf guard that came were both slaughtered in hand to hand, he essentially did this to Odain Sturmhjart:


https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-4803945


Jarl Greyloc, a space marine captain, was beaten into the ground by Magnus and killed.

As he was doing this, he was tanking constant hits from a Plasma Cannon, you know, Plasma the thing that instantly incinerates people and has the heat of a solar flare in just pistols? Yeah, he was tanking them in the face and giving zero cares about it.

He then proceeded to rip off the arms of Bjorn the Fell-Handed, the mightiest Dreadnought in the entire Imperium. Yeah, cause we all know Bjorn the Fell-Handed is just a 'dreadnought'. That guy is as much a 'dreadnought' as Lord Commander Dante is just a Space Marine or Kaldor is just a Grey Knight.

Before he could finish Bjorn he got hit in the head by a hypersonic droppod. Then, of course, the Great Wolf came out, you know him, the Chapter Master of the Space Wolves? Only, he got killed too by Magnus despite all the damage his avatar had taken. Then, Magnus left as it was becoming harder to hold the avatar in real space. He was not banished, he was not defeated, he accomplished his objective, butchered most of their greatest heroes including their Chapter Master and then walked off.

And this, again, was done by his avatar in a place full of enough anti-daemon wards to make Holy Terra proud.

pm713 wrote:
Battle of the Fang is way before the Axe of Morkai. Magnus only fought Bjorn and whatever the Great Wolf was called then. I've never seen why people whined about it tbh.

Ah. Sorry - wrong invasion of fenris. I've not actually read battle of the fang; I thought this was the wulfen cycle. Although it's still post prospero and (presumably) post the rubric and Magnus and the Crimson King becoming seperate entities (amongst others - long story, see Ahriman trilogy for details) and the "he's basically a daemon" argument still applies.

Onething123456 wrote:

He then proceeded to rip off the arms of Bjorn the Fell-Handed, the mightiest Dreadnought in the entire Imperium. Yeah, cause we all know Bjorn the Fell-Handed is just a 'dreadnought'. That guy is as much a 'dreadnought' as Lord Commander Dante is just a Space Marine or Kaldor is just a Grey Knight.

Whilst I'm hesitant to poke plot-holes, Bjorn as an individual is awesome but his dreadnought chassis is more or less just a standard (if venerable and well-maintained) castraferrum chassis - compare Bray'Arth Ashmantle, who was 'just' a Salamanders Captain but was enterred in a dreadnought chassis (The Iron Dragon) crafted by Vulkan.

Beating down that many individuals (Harek Ironhelm was the great wolf) was impressive - in fairness, Ironhelm did manage to hurt him, even if he did lose.

I don't see anyone arguing against the idea that Magnus would be more powerful in the warp than out of it, that's how pretty much all demons work. I also see nothing though indicating that the version of him summoned during the battle isn't the strongest form he can hold together in the Materium.

Magnus is too powerful to exist in the materium, as my quote showed.

But he did exist in the materium, at least as much as a daemon can ‘exist’.

This post seems to be picking a fight with no one.

But... simply to gak in the stew... Magnus was a wussy-pants that a guardsman could splatter using only the blunt end of a bayonet equipped lasgun.

I quote,

“Guardsmen Nhownayme stared at Magnus, cowering in the corner of the small interrogation room. “Your heresy has been your undoing. Since the Space Wolves, most awesome of all space Marines, have already whooped you in your most powerful form, they have left it to me to extract the vital information from you. You’ve had days to recover, now will you talk?”

“Yes!” Squealed Magnus. “Just please don’t...”

Nhownayme raised the butt of his rifle and slammed it into the traitor’s face. Immediately, Magnus began to dissolve. “Oh frack!” The enlisted man shouted. “The commissars are going to be pissed about this.”

Looking about furtively, knowing the Commissariat wouldn’t believe that he accidentally hit the Daemon Primarch so hard that he banished him, Nhownayme slunk out of the interrogation chamber, hoping some worthy foe would slay him in honourable combat before he was executed for his incompetence.

- GBT

phillv85 wrote:
But he did exist in the materium, at least as much as a daemon can ‘exist’.

To "fully" exist in the materium.

Yup, daemons are only as powerful as the warp energies provided to sustain them.

for the record I don't think anyone here has used Battle of the fang to "prove" magnus was somehow not a tough Son of a bitch.

He was and he still is, ANY Primarch is going to be a tough foe to take down, and the deamon primarchs add chaos juice to the mix

BrianDavion wrote:
for the record I don't think anyone here has used Battle of the fang to "prove" magnus was somehow not a tough Son of a bitch.

He was and he still is, ANY Primarch is going to be a tough foe to take down, and the deamon primarchs add chaos juice to the mix

He possessed the body of a commander in Battle of the Fang, his power was weakened by being limited in the materium and having many Daemon runes.

Onething123456 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
for the record I don't think anyone here has used Battle of the fang to "prove" magnus was somehow not a tough Son of a bitch.

He was and he still is, ANY Primarch is going to be a tough foe to take down, and the deamon primarchs add chaos juice to the mix

He possessed the body of a commander in Battle of the Fang, his power was weakened by being limited in the materium and having many Daemon Runes.

Um...BrianDavion was agreeing with you? I feel like half the time you're just talking to yourself.

Onething123456 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Not sure what you mean by out of context, has somebody claimed that Magnus is no longer in existence?

Some people say Magnus at his prime as strong as he could be anywhere, the Warp or the materium, lost in Battle of the Fang.




Magnus casually walked through all their firepower, into a fortress that has so many anti-daemon wards that even Holy Terra was jealous. He then proceeded to butcher his way through, slaughtered the apothecaries thus denying the Space Wolves the cure to their geneseed, the wolf guard that came were both slaughtered in hand to hand, he essentially did this to Odain Sturmhjart:


https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-4803945


Jarl Greyloc, a space marine captain, was beaten into the ground by Magnus and killed.

As he was doing this, he was tanking constant hits from a Plasma Cannon, you know, Plasma the thing that instantly incinerates people and has the heat of a solar flare in just pistols? Yeah, he was tanking them in the face and giving zero cares about it.

He then proceeded to rip off the arms of Bjorn the Fell-Handed, the mightiest Dreadnought in the entire Imperium. Yeah, cause we all know Bjorn the Fell-Handed is just a 'dreadnought'. That guy is as much a 'dreadnought' as Lord Commander Dante is just a Space Marine or Kaldor is just a Grey Knight.

Before he could finish Bjorn he got hit in the head by a hypersonic droppod. Then, of course, the Great Wolf came out, you know him, the Chapter Master of the Space Wolves? Only, he got killed too by Magnus despite all the damage his avatar had taken. Then, Magnus left as it was becoming harder to hold the avatar in real space. He was not banished, he was not defeated, he accomplished his objective, butchered most of their greatest heroes including their Chapter Master and then walked off.

And this, again, was done by his avatar in a place full of enough anti-daemon wards to make Holy Terra proud.

Hold up a moment, the battle for the Fang was M32, just after Bjorn became a Dreadnought and gave up his position as Great Wolf. Magnus has been back to Fenris since then, twice that I’m aware of, one partial summoning stopped by Ragnar Blackmane and the Spear of Russ and more recently Warzone Fenris where Khorne put him down by hyper-powering Grimnar’s Chaos forged axe. Since then Magnus has supposedly manifested on Cadia to harass the Wolves further and since then appeared on what was left of Prospero to try and bargain Lukas the Trickster into betraying the Space Wolves.
So who said Magnus isn’t fine?
Are you sure you aren’t getting the Battle of the Fang and Warzone Fenris mixed up in your timeline?

 Grimskul wrote:

Onething123456 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
for the record I don't think anyone here has used Battle of the fang to "prove" magnus was somehow not a tough Son of a bitch.

He was and he still is, ANY Primarch is going to be a tough foe to take down, and the deamon primarchs add chaos juice to the mix

He possessed the body of a commander in Battle of the Fang, his power was weakened by being limited in the materium and having many Daemon Runes.

Um...BrianDavion was agreeing with you? I feel like half the time you're just talking to yourself.

He wasn't being clear enough for me. Sorry about that. And I was playing.

locarno24 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Battle of the Fang is way before the Axe of Morkai. Magnus only fought Bjorn and whatever the Great Wolf was called then. I've never seen why people whined about it tbh.

Ah. Sorry - wrong invasion of fenris. I've not actually read battle of the fang; I thought this was the wulfen cycle. Although it's still post prospero and (presumably) post the rubric and Magnus and the Crimson King becoming seperate entities (amongst others - long story, see Ahriman trilogy for details) and the "he's basically a daemon" argument still applies.

Onething123456 wrote:

He then proceeded to rip off the arms of Bjorn the Fell-Handed, the mightiest Dreadnought in the entire Imperium. Yeah, cause we all know Bjorn the Fell-Handed is just a 'dreadnought'. That guy is as much a 'dreadnought' as Lord Commander Dante is just a Space Marine or Kaldor is just a Grey Knight.

Whilst I'm hesitant to poke plot-holes, Bjorn as an individual is awesome but his dreadnought chassis is more or less just a standard (if venerable and well-maintained) castraferrum chassis - compare Bray'Arth Ashmantle, who was 'just' a Salamanders Captain but was enterred in a dreadnought chassis (The Iron Dragon) crafted by Vulkan.

Beating down that many individuals (Harek Ironhelm was the great wolf) was impressive - in fairness, Ironhelm did manage to hurt him, even if he did lose.

Bjorn wasn’t just a Dreadnought, or even just a Venerable Dread, he was the Great Wolf and before that a Wolf Lord. Until recently Bjorn’s Dread was packing enough furry Iron Halos to grant his whole armoured body a protective energy shield.

He was indeed great wolf (although I thought he was one of Russ' wolf guard rather than a wolf lord before that?).

However his chassis is a (very) venerable castraferrum dreadnought but not, for example, a heavier contemptor or leviathan class. Hence the comparison with Bray'Arth, whose awesomeness comes more from the chassis than the pilot.

(He has intermittently in different editions had damage rerolls, an ignore-wounds-roll and a weak-ish invulnerable save to represent general bad-assness but he's certainly never had an iron halo per se, and I don't recall him those rules ever being described as coming from a specific piece of wargear rather than 'venerable' status)

Magnus is too powerful to exist in the materium, as my quote showed.

To a degree it's not about power - any daemon, even something small and not that powerful like a fury or nurgling - never exists fully within the materium when it manifests.

locarno24 wrote:
He was indeed great wolf (although I thought he was one of Russ' wolf guard rather than a wolf lord before that?).

However his chassis is a (very) venerable castraferrum dreadnought but not, for example, a heavier contemptor or leviathan class. Hence the comparison with Bray'Arth, whose awesomeness comes more from the chassis than the pilot.

(He has intermittently in different editions had damage rerolls, an ignore-wounds-roll and a weak-ish invulnerable save to represent general bad-assness but he's certainly never had an iron halo per se, and I don't recall him those rules ever being described as coming from a specific piece of wargear rather than 'venerable' status)

Magnus is too powerful to exist in the materium, as my quote showed.

To a degree it's not about power - any daemon, even something small and not that powerful like a fury or nurgling - never exists fully within the materium when it manifests.

When I said furry Iron halos I was referring to his Wolf Belt of Russ.
The Space Wolves’ equivalent of the Iron Halo, there’s one in every great company and is usually worn by the Wolf Lord.
You’re right, he was never a Wolf Lord. I assumed since he had a belt he had been a Wolf Lord, maybe he was wearing the 13th Great Company’s and gave it back now that they’ve returned...or maybe he just got plain old nerfed.

well keep in mind as a chapter master he'd have been leader of a great company.... eaither he was given a new one or Russ presented him with his,

BrianDavion wrote:
well keep in mind as a chapter master he'd have been leader of a great company.... eaither he was given a new one or Russ presented him with his,

I don't think Bjorn ever lead a great company unless they changed his background. He got the job cause he was the only one of Russ's wolf guards who didn't get to go off into the Eye of Terror to fight chaos.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
well keep in mind as a chapter master he'd have been leader of a great company.... eaither he was given a new one or Russ presented him with his,

I don't think Bjorn ever lead a great company unless they changed his background. He got the job cause he was the only one of Russ's wolf guards who didn't get to go off into the Eye of Terror to fight chaos.

Was the entirity of Onn Great Company Wolf Guard though? if not Bjonn presumably would have inherited command of it

Does Arjac Rockfist hold the power of a Wolf Lord being 2iC of the Champions of Fenris?
Does Grimnar have Chapter Master duties that demand his attention and force him to leave Arjac in command of a Great Company?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
well keep in mind as a chapter master he'd have been leader of a great company.... eaither he was given a new one or Russ presented him with his,

I don't think Bjorn ever lead a great company unless they changed his background. He got the job cause he was the only one of Russ's wolf guards who didn't get to go off into the Eye of Terror to fight chaos.

Russ went chasing his brothers, the 13th company went into the eye to fight Chaos. If Russ is there he is trying to rescue Corax or Khan - whichever one went mad.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Does Arjac Rockfist hold the power of a Wolf Lord being 2iC of the Champions of Fenris?
Does Grimnar have Chapter Master duties that demand his attention and force him to leave Arjac in command of a Great Company?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
well keep in mind as a chapter master he'd have been leader of a great company.... eaither he was given a new one or Russ presented him with his,

I don't think Bjorn ever lead a great company unless they changed his background. He got the job cause he was the only one of Russ's wolf guards who didn't get to go off into the Eye of Terror to fight chaos.

Russ went chasing his brothers, the 13th company went into the eye to fight Chaos. If Russ is there he is trying to rescue Corax or Khan - whichever one went mad.

Late reply, but yes, I am certain I got Battle of the Fang right. As I described, Magnus ripped apart the Wolves even with his avatar weakened by anti Daemon wards.


Hope I did not do anything wrong.

Onething123456 wrote:
Why is Magnus fighting in Battle of the Fang taken out of context so much?
Magnus merely sent an avatar in Battle of the Fang (possessing the body of a commander) after enough anti Chaos runes were cleared out for him to manifest.





This happened roughly at the end of A Thousand Sons.

IT BEGAN WITH yet another earthquake, a common enough occurrence that no one paid any mind at first. A sullen mood had fallen upon the Thousand Sons, which was wholly expected, for what manner of man would not keenly feel the loss of his home, father and brothers?But this earthquake did not simply fade away after splitting yet another fissure in the endless volcanic plain while sealing another shut. Cracks spread from the centre of the plain in a radial pattern and a black diamond, like a thrusting basalt speartip, exploded upwards.It rose into the sky, pushing higher and higher and growing wider and wider with every passing moment until a new mountain had been birthed. Towering and steep-sided, it rose higher than Olympus Mons and the Mountain of Aghoru combined. Broken rocks tumbled from its impossible height, falling from its angular sides to craft a fringe comprising shattered Cyclopean stone and titanic blocks of strange angles and impossible perspectives.When the rain of dust and debris had ended, the Thousand Sons gathered at the base of this stupendous creation, knowing that nothing natural could have created so magnificent an edifice. Glowing fire arced from the distant mountain’s peak and a shimmering blue light suffused its entirety, as though lightning filled its tunnels like blood in a circulatory system.A bright shape descended from the mountaintop, a wavering and indistinct form wreathed in the light of stars and the power of infinite possibility. Brilliant wings of shimmering aetheric fire unfolded from the figure’s back, and the Thousand Sons fell to their knees as their father’s light spread over them.Magnus landed softly before his sons and they stared in amazement as his light illuminated the bleak darkness of the world. This was no corporeal shell of a subtle body as worn by the primarch when he had walked among them. This was a body of light that could exist beyond the confines of the Great Ocean. Magnus had sacrificed the flesh that had contained his essence, and in so doing had ascended to a more evolved form, one free from the constraints of mortality and the limits of reality.*“My sons,” said Magnus with weary resignation, “welcome to the Planet of the Sorcerers.”*​

As it said, he raised the Obsidian tower and ascended to a form "free from the constraints of mortality and the limits of reality."



He is too powerful to fully exist within the materium.



Right forum. And this is a different thread from the other.

No when Ironhelm killed the avatar of Magnus in the eye, Magnus became his full self at Fenris, that's why he said killing his avatar would have consequences. All daemons are more powerful in the warp. You are just looking for reasons to excuse the fact that your boy getting a beating from Bjorn and Irnohelm

Magnus's avatar was weakened from the anti Daemon wards. And actually, Magnus slaughtered the Wolves.