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So we now have an official preview of the contents of CA 2018 in the form of Looted Wagons for Open and Narrative Play, the Eight bodyguards of Farsight with rules even for Matched Play, and most of all, a pair of pics from the Beta Codex for the Sororitas:



Your thoughts about it ?

I'm going to start by saying the Order of the Bloody Rose army trait is essentially BA or SW +1 in a way, not exactly the same but I'm sure both armies would be glad to trade their trait for this one.

And that this stratagem Burning Descent is a spit in the face of Deathwing players who pay 2/3 CPs for the same thing but without the bonus range for flamers.

All in all in my opinion it feels bad to have had your codex early in the releases when you see the kind of things that new codices got, like some Ork traits or this one.

+1S on base S3 model isn't as big a deal as +1S on base S4 (vs T4 you're wounding on 4's now for 1 round), the bonus attack is helpful though.
The Strategem is strong though, clearly similar vein as the Deathwing one but just cheaper and with an almost sideways bonus (flamer increased range vs option for plasma/assault cannons). It's the cost that makes it good, which means it's either undercosted or the Deathwing version is overcosted. Guess that's something for playtest to decide.

The stratagems have continuously gotten stronger with each release, same with the army traits. Typical power creep.

Excited to see the rest of the rules though, maybe they'll be balanced.

The Conviction will be good for Repentia and relic Sword wielding Canoness's.

Pity St C is not from that Order

I'm glad this is a beta codex because that Burning Descent stratagem is... wow. It will need more fine tuning thats for sure, but it looks promising.

 BroodSpawn wrote:
+1S on base S3 model isn't as big a deal as +1S on base S4 (vs T4 you're wounding on 4's now for 1 round), the bonus attack is helpful though.

You're going to be running your S3 models into T3 and T4, against either of which this represents a +1 to wound (whereas the S4 version only helps against T4 and the far less common T5). It's less useful for models carrying Sx2 weapons, where the breakpoints are far less significant (you'll get +1 to wound against T6 monstrous creatures and T7 vehicles, but right now people mostly care about killing T8).

A hand flamer and a Heavy flamer are not the same thing.

 Aaranis wrote:
So we now have an official preview of the contents of CA 2018 in the form of Looted Wagons for Open and Narrative Play, the Eight bodyguards of Farsight with rules even for Matched Play, and most of all, a pair of pics from the Beta Codex for the Sororitas:

Spoiler:

Your thoughts about it ?

I'm going to start by saying the Order of the Bloody Rose army trait is essentially BA or SW +1 in a way, not exactly the same but I'm sure both armies would be glad to trade their trait for this one.

And that this stratagem Burning Descent is a spit in the face of Deathwing players who pay 2/3 CPs for the same thing but without the bonus range for flamers.

All in all in my opinion it feels bad to have had your codex early in the releases when you see the kind of things that new codices got, like some Ork traits or this one.

Most SoB units are WS 4+ S3 T3 right. Getting the same trait as spacewolves or w/e got would be getting a worse trait than them on the simple basis that the units getting it are far weaker.

And it's hand flamers and bolt pistols dude. You're paying 1CP to kill like...4 ork boyz AND you can't take inferno pistols because the range is too short AND they're worthless in CQC.

You should consider the context of the changes. Deathwing getting the same strategem would have been really, really strong. Space wolves getting the Bloody rose CT would have been bonkers good, sisters getting them is barely usable.

I see people talking about the burning descent stratagem like it's a way bigger deal than it is so I'm going to point out that it's good but not fantastic:

Seraphim can take 1 plasma pistol and up to 4 total inferno pistols or hand flamers. Inferno pistols are useless with this strategem so you'd only be using hand flamers. Hand flamer have an 8" range, are strength 3, and do D3 autohits.
Notice something? Yeah, without the range boost, they can't hit the target so you're STILL only getting 1 shot per turn with them. The rest will be bolt pistols.

So congrats, if you take a unit of 10 seraphim and stratagem them you'll get 1 plasma pistol shot you can't overcharge, 4 hand flamer shots, and 17 bolt pistol shots for a grand total 3-4 dead marines once per unit per game if you take a max strength unit of seraphim. Even adding on their additional shooting attack you're only getting MAYBE 5 dead marines out of an almost 150pt unit that will absolutely die on your opponents next turn.

Don't get me wrong, it's good and I'm glad we have it, but look at the unit that it's applied to, don't just imagine how strong it would have been on a much shootier unit and call it unbalanced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 BroodSpawn wrote:
+1S on base S3 model isn't as big a deal as +1S on base S4 (vs T4 you're wounding on 4's now for 1 round), the bonus attack is helpful though.

You're going to be running your S3 models into T3 and T4, against either of which this represents a +1 to wound (whereas the S4 version only helps against T4 and the far less common T5). It's less useful for models carrying Sx2 weapons, where the breakpoints are far less significant (you'll get +1 to wound against T6 monstrous creatures and T7 vehicles, but right now people mostly care about killing T8).

Don't forget it's also +1 to wound against T8 AND +1 to wound against T4. The S3-S4 breakpoint on units that can take double strength equipment is BY FAR the most important one. The difference between an S6 repentia and an S8 repentia might be enough to have them actually see some legitimate play.

Yeah IMO, even with the stratagem handflamers are not worth it in the slightest. They do something like d3 s3 auto-hits with a range of 6" (IIRC).

So you're paying 1 cp for a max of 4d3 s3 autohits (because you can give up to two Seraphim two handflamers each). I guess it's not terrible, but you're giving up the Inferno Pistols which are way more useful on Seraphim IMO.

+1 S and +1 A on attack and the like is pretty strong, yes, but IMO it's adding strength to a pretty weak base so it's unlikely to be OP in practice.

Of course, that's applying that to the Index Sisters' baseline. There could be other changes in the Beta Codex that changes things.

I understand the fear of the Order of the Bloody Rose conviction. With it, the Celestians are capable to beat even Assault Marines!!!

Kidding but then you can get 4 attacks with 3+ S4 per model, not ridiculous. Not scary but not ridiculous.

I feel like if you could give the entire squad hand flamers, this would be a pretty great stratagem. Assuming plasma pistol and sword on the superior, that would be 18D3 S3 hits, which while not superb against high toughness, heavily armored opponents, would really help the sisters with crowd control.

Buuuut....I could easily be wrong.

I'd make a joke about the conviction's name being a pretty good description of SoB players, but I won't. *cough*

It's very good to see them getting a Beta Codex in Chapter Approved. I guess my real fear from such a publication is it means GW has to show their hand as far as new units are concerned. That means one of three things:

1. They give us rules for things that don't yet have miniatures. Small chance.
2. They don't include the rules for units that don't yet have miniatures. That means it's not a real play-test.
3. They don't actually put any new units/weapons/items into the Sisters of Battle, meaning what we have now is what we'll have in X months when the actual Codex comes out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd make a joke about the conviction's name being a pretty good description of SoB players, but I won't. *cough*

It's very good to see them getting a Beta Codex in Chapter Approved. I guess my real fear from such a publication is it means GW has to show their hand as far as new units are concerned. That means one of three things:

1. They give us rules for things that don't yet have miniatures. Small chance.
2. They don't include the rules for units that don't yet have miniatures. That means it's not a real play-test.
3. They don't actually put any new units/weapons/items into the Sisters of Battle, meaning what we have now is what we'll have in X months when the actual Codex comes out.

I think outside of a couple of folk, most of us would be happy with 3 if it means we get all of what we "have now" in plastic. Assuming they do it thoroughly and don't half-ass things that's a lotta kits, and assuming I played 8th I'd prefer everything we supposedly have at the moment in plastic with a solid, functional codex than a bunch of newshiny up-to-11 OTT SuperDuperSister stuff and NounNouny VerbNoun equipment options. Then again, I'm probably not the best person to ask since I'll be buying the models to use in older editions.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd make a joke about the conviction's name being a pretty good description of SoB players, but I won't. *cough*

If some of the subsequent ones are "Easy to bait" and "Utterly Humourless" we'll have our confirmation!

ERJAK wrote:
Don't forget it's also +1 to wound against T8 AND +1 to wound against T4. The S3-S4 breakpoint on units that can take double strength equipment is BY FAR the most important one. The difference between an S6 repentia and an S8 repentia might be enough to have them actually see some legitimate play.

Derp, I'm an idiot. I was applying the conviction after the weapon modifier for a total of S7. Your interpretation is correct, which means that the ability is quite good assuming Sororitas assault is worth investing in at all.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd make a joke about the conviction's name being a pretty good description of SoB players, but I won't. *cough*

If some of the subsequent ones are "Easy to bait" and "Utterly Humourless" we'll have our confirmation!

I resemble that remark! (not an auto-correct).

I'm now looking forward to receiving my sci-fi variants of Anvil's armoured Nuns, adding them to what I have left over from my metal Sisters and seeing what I can come up with.

It's about time the Order of the Valorous Heart marched again.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd make a joke about the conviction's name being a pretty good description of SoB players, but I won't. *cough*

If some of the subsequent ones are "Easy to bait" and "Utterly Humourless" we'll have our confirmation!

Goes along well with the new Chaos Marines; "Little Brother Syndrome" and "30 year Victim complex".

ERJAK wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd make a joke about the conviction's name being a pretty good description of SoB players, but I won't. *cough*

If some of the subsequent ones are "Easy to bait" and "Utterly Humourless" we'll have our confirmation!

Goes along well with the new Chaos Marines; "Little Brother Syndrome" and "30 year Victim complex".

re Sisters players - all the actual moaning and complaiming in EVERY thread these days is from Marine players - is pretty incessant.

The Seraphim could have more handflamers which would be fun

 Mr Morden wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd make a joke about the conviction's name being a pretty good description of SoB players, but I won't. *cough*

If some of the subsequent ones are "Easy to bait" and "Utterly Humourless" we'll have our confirmation!

Goes along well with the new Chaos Marines; "Little Brother Syndrome" and "30 year Victim complex".

re Sisters players - all the actual moaning and complaiming in EVERY thread these days is from Marine players - is pretty incessant.

The Seraphim could have more handflamers which would be fun

Honestly, just going back up to D6 shots and MAYBE dropping a point would be perfectly fine.

 Mr Morden wrote:
The Seraphim could have more handflamers which would be fun

If you ever run out, the Necromunda weapon packs contain the richest source of handflamium ever to be mined across the galaxy.

It's kinda odd how hand flamers are only d3 shots. The warpflame pistol gets d6 shots and that's essentially the same thing, just with Tzeentchy warp magics added to make it penetrate armor better.

The original 2nd ed rules for Seraphim allowed you to kit every Sister out with paired hand flamers, and allowed you to either fire both pistols separately (getting two small 4” templates) or combine them into the equivalent of a flamer (one 8” template).

That would be easy to replicate in an 8th edition datasheet.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The original 2nd ed rules for Seraphim allowed you to kit every Sister out with paired hand flamers, and allowed you to either fire both pistols separately (getting two small 4” templates) or combine them into the equivalent of a flamer (one 8” template).

That would be easy to replicate in an 8th edition datasheet.

Oooooo! That WOULD be cool! Do D6 S4 auto hits instead of 2D3 S3 hits. It would also mean rolling less dice. I like it!

nm

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
2. They don't include the rules for units that don't yet have miniatures. That means it's not a real play-test.

Since this one is about as far away as it gets from the advertised goal of making the codex the best they can, you just know this is going to be the one. After all:

"This is quite possibly Warhammer 40,000’s most anticipated codex ever, and we want to make sure we absolutely nail it, so, alongside our usual rigorous professional playtesting, we’re asking you to help us out and provide your thoughts."

Does anything about 8th ed strike you as being rigorously and professionally tested?

Yeah, incomplete beta codex incoming.

Emperor willing!

So much cynicism, so little reading comprehension:

"As if that wasn’t enough, Chapter Approved 2018 will also feature a beta codex for the Adepta Sororitas! This is quite possibly Warhammer 40,000’s most anticipated codex ever, and we want to make sure we absolutely nail it, so, alongside our usual rigorous professional playtesting, we’re asking you to help us out and provide your thoughts.

Make no mistake – while this is a beta codex, it’s a fully fledged one that offers the Adepta Sororitas more options and more cool stuff than ever before, allowing you (for the first time EVER) to represent the unique tactics of various orders with unique Orders Militant Convictions. The Order of the Bloody Rose, for instance, are zealous close combat specialist."

 alextroy wrote:
So much cynicism, so little reading comprehension:

"As if that wasn’t enough, Chapter Approved 2018 will also feature a beta codex for the Adepta Sororitas! This is quite possibly Warhammer 40,000’s most anticipated codex ever, and we want to make sure we absolutely nail it, so, alongside our usual rigorous professional playtesting, we’re asking you to help us out and provide your thoughts.

Make no mistake – while this is a beta codex, it’s a fully fledged one that offers the Adepta Sororitas more options and more cool stuff than ever before, allowing you (for the first time EVER) to represent the unique tactics of various orders with unique Orders Militant Convictions. The Order of the Bloody Rose, for instance, are zealous close combat specialist."

That could just mean (and i'd say the rest of the sentence implies) the different Order convictions and stratagems etc that every codex has got.

Yep. Where new units never seen before comes? Then again i don't expect never before seen units next year either at start anyway

 alextroy wrote:
So much cynicism, so little reading comprehension:

"As if that wasn’t enough, Chapter Approved 2018 will also feature a beta codex for the Adepta Sororitas! This is quite possibly Warhammer 40,000’s most anticipated codex ever, and we want to make sure we absolutely nail it, so, alongside our usual rigorous professional playtesting, we’re asking you to help us out and provide your thoughts.

Make no mistake – while this is a beta codex, it’s a fully fledged one that offers the Adepta Sororitas more options and more cool stuff than ever before, allowing you (for the first time EVER) to represent the unique tactics of various orders with unique Orders Militant Convictions. The Order of the Bloody Rose, for instance, are zealous close combat specialist."

GW-Speak for chapter traits, warlord traits and relics. The new Ork codex offers the most options ever, too. In spite of cutting out units and offering units options only if the bits are found on the sprue.

Reading comprehension helps if you can take things at face value, which is not an advisable stance to take with marketing material.

Call me optimistic, but I think "fully fledged" means it will be a full codex, not a cut rate one missing tons of units with no inkling of any new units that will be released with the full codex. Can't very well Beta test things we don't know about.