CODEX ORKS -strategies and tactics in 8th.

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**CaptainO**

I dunno. Someone could argue that the battle begins when the first dude moves. Up untill then its merely two groups out for a walk in a 4' x 6' park.

Obviously I'm joking. I have seen some awful rules lawyering on dakka dakka though. Attempting to recoup 3 CPs pre battle will be enough for me.

Has anyone actually finished a game with orks with any CP left? So many awesome stratagems to buy.

**tneva82**

Well short of mono guard not many armies can do that one. Either they generate many CP's or they use tons of CP. Mono guard is about only codex that not only easily generates tons of CP but also doesn't have all that hungry strategems.

Better Q is how many have got to turn 3 with some CP left

**CaptainO**

Lol. Orks make it rain CPs.

**tneva82**

Orks rain but it's not actually as easy as say IG. Our HQ's are more pricey which makes 3rd battallion rather expensive even if you don't take any boyz. Boyz are very expensive. And orks might have tons of CP's but they eat a lot. Loota star eats over 5 per turn in average plus 1 for mobup if you want more than 15.

**CaptainO**

No doubt. By make it rain i meant in an "ork in a strip club throwing away CPs" kind of way. Our loyal 32 cp farm is 200pts vrs the guards which is 180pts and 30 guards supported by 2 commanders has a lot more uses that 30 grots with 2x index big mechs. Also the guard loyal 32 regain CPs on a 5+ rather than our blood axes doing it on a 6+

**BaconCatBug**

To be fair Guard are going to be going up in CA. If they don't change DKOK Guard will need to bring 181 point DKOK battalions for CP.

**Nora**

Hi
I know the rules for index units that does not has any data sheet in the index and also for options that no longer exist in codex, but for some units this feels a bit like sheeting. Lets take the DEFFKOPTAS for an example. They have the option of a free bigbomm in the index but not in the codex. Is it all right to take this for them?

**An Actual Englishman**

Nora wrote:
Hi
I know the rules for index units that does not has any data sheet in the index and also for options that no longer exist in codex, but for some units this feels a bit like sheeting. Lets take the DEFFKOPTAS for an example. They have the option of a free bigbomm in the index but not in the codex. Is it all right to take this for them?

I believe you can take Big Bomms on deffkoptas from the index but I wouldn't do this personally either. They've clearly been pointed without the bomm so it seems like gaining an unfair advantage through an exploit.

**Jidmah**

Nora wrote:
Hi
I know the rules for index units that does not has any data sheet in the index and also for options that no longer exist in codex, but for some units this feels a bit like sheeting. Lets take the DEFFKOPTAS for an example. They have the option of a free bigbomm in the index but not in the codex. Is it all right to take this for them?

The eldar index allows autarchs to take a banshee mask for free, which prevents units from firing over-watch against that autarch. The codex removed that optiong, however, this piece of wargear is explicitly given as example by GW for wargear a codex autarch can take from the index.
I have yet to face an autarch without banshee mask.

So, bombs away!

**gungo**

I get what people are saying about using the index however the codex was written with a harsh guideline of only using what on a model for rules due to chapter house lawsuits. The index is still used all over gamesworkshops own batreps and supported. It is literally the old model rules book. At some point it will go power rating only but that’s not going to be in 2019. And as long as Gw continues to balance index units in FAQs and chapter approved there is absolutely nothing wrong with using them. If gw feels free Deffkoptas bombs are a problem they can always give them points in chapter approved like I’m sure several other index units will be adjusted.

**CaptainO**

I'm predicting a 30 pt price hike for the index warboss on bike come CA. maybe 20/30points for the painboy and big mek on bikes.

**tneva82**

Did the previous CA touch index units for codex? GW doesn't seem to be too keen on maintaining those rules.

**Multimoog**

tneva82 wrote:
Did the previous CA touch index units for codex? GW doesn't seem to be too keen on maintaining those rules.

Nope, they don't care. The best way to get into the mindset of GW design is to understand that while they do have increased support for matched/tourney play and players with established collections, they really want those new players to come in and start an army with new models.

**gungo**

tneva82 wrote:
Did the previous CA touch index units for codex? GW doesn't seem to be too keen on maintaining those rules.

Ya the other guy is wrong.
The point sheet touched upon a lot of units in forgeworld and index

We know he is wrong since orks only had an index and yet chapter approved lowered the price of morkanaut skorchas warbuggies and Wartraks and a ton of wargear.

**geargutz**

gungo wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Did the previous CA touch index units for codex? GW doesn't seem to be too keen on maintaining those rules.

Ya the other guy is wrong.
The point sheet touched upon a lot of units in forgeworld and index

We know he is wrong since orks only had an index and yet chapter approved lowered the price of morkanaut skorchas warbuggies and Wartraks and a ton of wargear.

my guess is he meant that armies that had codexs by the time CA rolled around, if they got pts adjustments it was only for codex options. we got pts drops in the 1st chapter approved but we obviously didn't have a codex yet, it was mainly a pathetic show to throw us a bone until we got our codex. i doubt we will see any changes to index options in the next CA2019/2020.

but we will see changes for FW prices since they are very unlikely to make any new imperial amour books for the foreseeable future (so lets cross our fingers for our FW options in this CA).

edit, of course i might be wrong, please point out any index options for a army with existing codex if there is any in the previous CA.

**Ashkayel**

Hey guys, I haven't been around the last few weeks, and I haven't read the last 50 pages or so. Sorry if this has been discussed before.

My first post-codex game is this Friday. Is it just me, or the Deathskullz Klan Kultur (6++ and rerolls) is godsend for lone koptas? And especially KMB koptas!

39 pts for a 6++ kopta with an Assault 1 (rerollable) S8 (rerollable) AP-3 DamD6 (rerollable) shot! The reroll mitigates a bit the Gets Hot rule, and with Dakka Dakka Dakka, a kopta might get 2 hits with a single KMB shot!

Along with a Bad Moon battalion, I'm bringing an outrider detachment of a Weirdboy (he benefits from all the perks of the klan, including Obj Sec) and 5 lone koptas. That's 257 pts. Lots of mobility, anti-tank power, backdoor shenanigans, and psychic goodness! Not bad!

Any thoughts?

**Coh Magnussen**

Re: 5 lone koptas.... Rule of 3?

**Nightlord1987**

Deffkopta isn't Infantry so no Obsec.

**Ashkayel**

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Re: 5 lone koptas.... Rule of 3?

Ahhh damn you are right, forgot about this. Well, 3 koptas are not bad... Maybe I'll group them in pairs... Thanks

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Deffkopta isn't Infantry so no Obsec.

Yup, I know, but they benefit from the other goodies. And the Weirdboy benefits from Obsec.

**Nightlord1987**

Yea. I saw what you were referring to the wyrdboy after posting.

Solo koptaz seem good. Soak up overwatch. Nab objectives.

**Badlur**

Hello!

Has anybody stomped khorne lord of skulls already?

What is the best tactic?

**Grimskul**

Badlur wrote:
Hello!

Has anybody stomped khorne lord of skulls already?
What is the best tactic?

Khorne lord of skulls is one of the weaker super heavies in the game, so it shouldn't be causing you too much trouble. In any case, the ideal unit to counter them are tankbustas (Bad Moonz preferably) since they get to re-roll to hit against vehicles. More importantly, if you manage to get them with 6" grenade range, for only 1 CP you can potentially throw up to 15D3 Tankbusta Bombs at it, all re-rolling to hit, proccing on 6's for DDD! AND doing D6 damage a piece. If you combine this with Moar Dakka! and (if Bad Moonz) Showin Off', you're practically guaranteed to kill it, or at the very least, maim it down to a few wounds left. Thus the bigger question is, how do you deliver them? Tankbustas work best either in a Trukk, or tellyported as a suicide unit T2 onwards so you can combo off your stratagems (keep in mind that the latest FAQ has clarified that neither Moar Dakka! nor Showin Off' are usable for units embarked on vehicles) without having any casualties. So it's up to you pointswise and model-wise which works best for you.

**tneva82**

Mind you trukk wil' be priority target so likely you will take casualties that way. Another way is da jums them.

Or from different angle 10 meganobz with twin saws will makequite a dent

**Badlur**

Thanks!

A few questions, if telleport or jump bustas, they will be over 9 inch from enemy unit deployed, and will be counted as already moved, so they have to take lots of dakka. In this case, what if i take tankhammers and charge?
And the second, what if telleport Gork and 3 dreads and charge, will it worth points?

**tneva82**

Bustas are assault weapons so unless you advanced to get within range of weirdboy with da jump you don't need more dakka unless you want more hits.

Tank hammers are just bad. Don't do it. Wouldn't even go within 9" especially if further gives you chance to hide from some return fire.

Gork+3 dreads will likely miss one charge at least and even if you get all you average 22 wounds in average so not enough to kill it. You would certainly cripple it but issue is that many walkers in deep strike is easy to block by screens and 4 charge rolls are very unlikely to succeed all.

**the_scotsman**

Badlur wrote:
Thanks!

A few questions, if telleport or jump bustas, they will be over 9 inch from enemy unit deployed, and will be counted as already moved, so they have to take lots of dakka. In this case, what if i take tankhammers and charge?
And the second, what if telleport Gork and 3 dreads and charge, will it worth points?

Bustas don't care about moving and shooting. Only lootas do. So knock yourself out!

Honestly though, I haven't found bustas deep striking to be that amazing. They have 24" range, theyre relatively cheap and easy to just load into trukks, so just split up the squad and put them in several different trukks. I think people underestimate the value of a unit that's actually good WITHOUT spending any CP to do it, and bustas are just that - lets you save your CP for your big jump blobs, warbosses, loota bombs etc.

**Blackie**

the_scotsman wrote:
Badlur wrote:
Thanks!

A few questions, if telleport or jump bustas, they will be over 9 inch from enemy unit deployed, and will be counted as already moved, so they have to take lots of dakka. In this case, what if i take tankhammers and charge?
And the second, what if telleport Gork and 3 dreads and charge, will it worth points?

Bustas don't care about moving and shooting. Only lootas do. So knock yourself out!

Honestly though, I haven't found bustas deep striking to be that amazing. They have 24" range, theyre relatively cheap and easy to just load into trukks, so just split up the squad and put them in several different trukks. I think people underestimate the value of a unit that's actually good WITHOUT spending any CP to do it, and bustas are just that - lets you save your CP for your big jump blobs, warbosses, loota bombs etc.

Completely agree. I've played several times 2x10 bad moons bustas in trukks along with 3x goffs or evil sunz BWs/bonebreaks full of boyz and nobz. They do a lot of work even without the stratagems. If you have armor saturation, like 3 threathening def rollas vehicles full of green skins they can live for several turns because they aren't the target priority. Of course if you're planning on bringing some sort of green tide with just a single trukk deepstriking the bustas is way more efficient.

**Badlur**

I suppose it will be better to give a quick comment about an enemy army. There will be predator with lascannons, defiler, obliterators, havocs with lascannons, prince, bloodthrster and lord of skulls. plus troops. So, bustas will be walking, if not teleported. If they will be teleported they will be destroyed in a moment, if they could make a shooting attack it will be about 9 wounds to lord of skulls from 12 bustas, what is not as many for about 270 points, plus, i suppose they will be alive for 1 turn only. If i make a ramming speed attack with Gork, it will make about 13 wounds attack, what is much better for about 300 points, plus i suppose to bring 30 skarboys there and get about 8 wounds and stack lord of skulls. Lord can not target the boyz if here a vehicle near of him. One shot of a lord of skulls is not necessary as i dont want to take all range attacks, plus the strength will be 5 only after 21 wounds.

All the lootas, flash gits on trukks or battlewagons, mek gunz will be destroyed very quickly.
Boss with kastom klaw can make 16 wounds max but will be killed after 2 lucky hits. Maybe it is the best tactic to take Ghazz and jump him or teleport himself or inside a Gork?

**the_scotsman**

Badlur wrote:
I suppose it will be better to give a quick comment about an enemy army. There will be predator with lascannons, defiler, obliterators, havocs with lascannons, prince, bloodthrster and lord of skulls. plus troops. So, bustas will be walking, if not teleported. If they will be teleported they will be destroyed in a moment, if they could make a shooting attack it will be about 9 wounds to lord of skulls from 12 bustas, what is not as many for about 270 points, plus, i suppose they will be alive for 1 turn only. If i make a ramming speed attack with Gork, it will make about 13 wounds attack, what is much better for about 300 points, plus i suppose to bring 30 skarboys there and get about 8 wounds and stack lord of skulls. Lord can not target the boyz if here a vehicle near of him. One shot of a lord of skulls is not necessary as i dont want to take all range attacks, plus the strength will be 5 only after 21 wounds.

All the lootas, flash gits on trukks or battlewagons, mek gunz will be destroyed very quickly.
Boss with kastom klaw can make 16 wounds max but will be killed after 2 lucky hits. Maybe it is the best tactic to take Ghazz and jump him or teleport himself or inside a Gork?

I mean, from the composition of the enemy army this sounds like it's either like a 5k points game or "plus troops" actulaly means "very few troops at all."

You seem hyper focused on "what one thing can I take to beat enemy's one thing" when in reality, you're going to have a massive amount of resources to throw around.

Given the extreme anti-tank nature of the enemy army, I'd take a solid green tide plus a loota bomb in the back. The enemy has extremely limited anti-infantry firepower, and none of it will get through grot shields.

if you gave me complete carte blanche to take on this army, my setup would be (since you say Ghazzy i assume you have goffs, and the game is at least 2.5k)

Bad Moonz Battalion

grots
grots
grots

Weirdboy fists of gork
KFF big mek

15 lootas
10 lootas

Goffs Battalion

30 boyz klaw
30 boyz klaw
30 boyz klaw

Ghazghkull
Warboss killa klaw on bike
Weirdboy warpath

Banner nob with DLS
Painboy

Then past that point I'd just throw more boyz at the problem. Blunt and simple. No tanks at all.

**Badlur**

There are little amount of troops indeed. I completely agree that lots of troops is the best tactic here, but i have a big problem with lord of skulls as it have rule that gives it a possibility to shoot troops that are in hth or when it is in hth itself, plus its cannons have lots of shots and 48 range, it is about half of a boyz mob a turn. In hth it is even worse as it can shoot and chop in the same turn without falling back. Plus, defiler can block scarboyz and make a lot of damage.

Your list is good, but i dont think that lootas can make sufficient damage to destroy all the units that can stop green tide, especially versus lord of skulls. Maybe it is worth to teleport some dreads or Gork to block lord of skulls shooting in hth possibility?

Have made a roster:

Spoiler:

It is a friendly battle, so i think 1 extra point will be ok. The army has only 94 PL and maybe i can choose the 1-st turn.