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Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






 fraser1191 wrote:
Finger wrote:
 fraser1191 wrote:
 John Prins wrote:
EricDominus wrote:


Saviour protocols now procs at 4+.

I REPEAT: 4+ Saviour Protocols!


Makes Shield Generators more worthwhile if you can't count on drones. This may tempt people into not bothering to clear drone chaff first, which is a mistake, but people will still do it.


Every time I watch my DE friend play my Tau friend that's how it goes down...

"I'm gonna fire my dark Lance at your Ghostkeel at - 2 to hit. I hit! I wounded!"
"on a 2+ it'll go on my stealth drone..."


Your DE friend play very badly ...

He have to kill the drone with multi shoot weapons, then kill the drone that give -1 to hit to the ghost (easy), then kill the ghost.



I beat him with a terminator GK list soooooooooo


Oh with a God hammer land raider to boot
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Torquar wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 GI_Redshirt wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Torquar wrote:
 John Prins wrote:
EricDominus wrote:


Saviour protocols now procs at 4+.

I REPEAT: 4+ Saviour Protocols!


Makes Shield Generators more worthwhile if you can't count on drones. This may tempt people into not bothering to clear drone chaff first, which is a mistake, but people will still do it.


If you're going to have to roll a 4+ for either the Shield (result: no effect) or Saviour Protocols (result: dead drone) why bother with the drone at all?

Because you get to do both. Failed your 4++? Ok let your drone try.

If stormsurges are really battlesuits, and not far more expensive, I might even finish painting mine.

I don't think it works like that. You cant fail your save then transfer it to the drone.
You have to roll a 4+ to transfer the wound to the drone. If that fails you can role to save it yourself.


Nope, pretty sure Savior Protocols can be taken after saves.


Unless it has been updated in an FAQ somewhere, Savior Protocols states that you roll after a SEPT Infantry or SEPT Battlesuit unit has been wounded by an enemy attack, not after you fail a saving throw. The roll is done between being successfully wounded and rolling your save. If you fail the Savior Protocol roll, you take the wound and roll your save as normal. So you can get both rolls, but only if you fail to pass it off first.


Actually, I just read the FAQ and it clarifies the order.
You roll savior protocol, then saves.

Still doesn't mean savior on a 4+ is useless though. You still have a 50% chance of stopping an attack that deals multiple damage and reduce it to a single mortal wound, which can be negated by a shield drone.
That's still pretty good. The shield generator would be useful if you fail the savior roll.


But if you made the 4+ for SP to work, that same 4+ would have completely negated the attack with the Shield Generator, saving you the cost of a drone.


If they were mutually exclusive you'd have a point. But they are not.
You have a 50% chance of SP, followed by a 50% of stopping the attack with a shield. That's about a 75% of avoiding damage.
If you just take the shield generator that's a 50% chance of taking a lascannon to the face. Pretty sure crisis suits are worth more than drones.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in ca
Fireknife Shas'el






Torquar wrote:


But if you made the 4+ for SP to work, that same 4+ would have completely negated the attack with the Shield Generator, saving you the cost of a drone.


50% negation chance with just the Shield Generator vs 75% with Drone + Shield Generator.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

I wanted a Ghostkeel to round out my 36 stealth suits, this just cements it.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 John Prins wrote:
Torquar wrote:


But if you made the 4+ for SP to work, that same 4+ would have completely negated the attack with the Shield Generator, saving you the cost of a drone.


50% negation chance with just the Shield Generator vs 75% with Drone + Shield Generator.

Plus with the shield drones FNP you might not even lose the drone.
So that lucky D6 lascannon shot will do feck all.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I wanted a Ghostkeel to round out my 36 stealth suits, this just cements it.

With the 180 points you will have saved on your Stealth suits you will be able to afford one, maybe two lol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/17 22:27:54


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

tneva82 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:



Actually, I just read the FAQ and it clarifies the order.
You roll savior protocol, then saves.

Still doesn't mean savior on a 4+ is useless though. You still have a 50% chance of stopping an attack that deals multiple damage and reduce it to a single mortal wound, which can be negated by a shield drone on a 5+.
That's still pretty good. The shield generator would be useful if you fail the savior roll. You basically get two, possibly 3 common layers of protection, which is more than what most other armies get.


Wonder if grot screen gets changed as well almost right away. How that works is that you roll to hit, to wound, to save and roll how many damage if it's like d3 or d6 damage. Then for each damage you suffer you roll and on 2+ it kills grot(on 1 it goes to original model).

Though as it's not unit but strategem maybe that working on 2+ isn't considered too bad. Also multi wound weapons goes through grots and orks very easily.


I doubt it. The codex just came out. You have to use command points for it anyway and it protects one unit, as opposed to savior protocols which can protect every unit if there's a drone nearby.
Imagine if the wording for Grot shields was that it affects every unit in your army that takes a wound. That's pretty much SP.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 GI_Redshirt wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Torquar wrote:
 John Prins wrote:
EricDominus wrote:


Saviour protocols now procs at 4+.

I REPEAT: 4+ Saviour Protocols!


Makes Shield Generators more worthwhile if you can't count on drones. This may tempt people into not bothering to clear drone chaff first, which is a mistake, but people will still do it.


If you're going to have to roll a 4+ for either the Shield (result: no effect) or Saviour Protocols (result: dead drone) why bother with the drone at all?

Because you get to do both. Failed your 4++? Ok let your drone try.

If stormsurges are really battlesuits, and not far more expensive, I might even finish painting mine.

I don't think it works like that. You cant fail your save then transfer it to the drone.
You have to roll a 4+ to transfer the wound to the drone. If that fails you can role to save it yourself.


Nope, pretty sure Savior Protocols can be taken after saves.


Unless it has been updated in an FAQ somewhere, Savior Protocols states that you roll after a SEPT Infantry or SEPT Battlesuit unit has been wounded by an enemy attack, not after you fail a saving throw. The roll is done between being successfully wounded and rolling your save. If you fail the Savior Protocol roll, you take the wound and roll your save as normal. So you can get both rolls, but only if you fail to pass it off first.


Actually, I just read the FAQ and it clarifies the order.
You roll savior protocol, then saves.

Still doesn't mean savior on a 4+ is useless though. You still have a 50% chance of stopping an attack that deals multiple damage and reduce it to a single mortal wound, which can be negated by a shield drone on a 5+.
That's still pretty good. The shield generator would be useful if you fail the savior roll. You basically get two, possibly 3 common layers of protection, which is more than what most other armies get.


I don't disagree at all. SP being on a 4+ is fine. Does it hurt being nerfed by so much? Of course it does. But having it be on a 2+ was probably too powerful, especially with it being extended to new units like the Stormsurge. Besides, to balance it out almost all of our battlesuits got a points reduction, save for the Riptide, though if we're being honest it is undercosted currently. So while we will protect less wounds of Battlesuits with Drones, we will have overall more wounds worth of Battlesuits on the board to compensate.

Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,500 points (3,200 points fully painted)

Genestealer Cult 1228 points


849 points/ 15 SWC 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





We also dont know if the drones have changed in cost.
They may have gone down all well. (Or up...)
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






Shield drones in particular were/are extremely OP with it being 2+

My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
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Made in se
Dakka Veteran



Sweden

Hopefully there's way more changes to the Storm surge than just adding a few new keywords to it. That in itself is not gonna make it a better pick than a riptide. It needs more dakka and a solid points reduction among other things.
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

I haven't seen many Tau lists dominating though. This nerf seems a bit harsh, unless its to balance other changes, that is.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

X078 wrote:
Hopefully there's way more changes to the Storm surge than just adding a few new keywords to it. That in itself is not gonna make it a better pick than a riptide. It needs more dakka and a solid points reduction among other things.


Well, the Riptide will be 220 points base. How much is a stormsurge?

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





 grouchoben wrote:
I haven't seen many Tau lists dominating though. This nerf seems a bit harsh, unless its to balance other changes, that is.

More of a frustration in mid-level play kind of nerf than being OP at top tables, I think. It's not fun being unable to shoot anything until every drone has been cleared from the board.

GW has already given up on Tau at top tables because they're a single-book army.
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran



Sweden

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
X078 wrote:
Hopefully there's way more changes to the Storm surge than just adding a few new keywords to it. That in itself is not gonna make it a better pick than a riptide. It needs more dakka and a solid points reduction among other things.


Well, the Riptide will be 220 points base. How much is a stormsurge?



Around the 330 mark without anything, no shield no nothing, and with (the current state) mediocre cheaper gun.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Cymru

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Shield drones in particular were/are extremely OP with it being 2+


OP would imply they were smashing it at the top tables which was not really the case.

What they were was frustrating, T'au were sometimes winning by frustrating their opponent. If any of this is true then it looks like T'au get less frustrating to play against but more dangerous as the points drops and having less reason to take zillions of shield drones will put more guns on the table.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Guys the rumors about Tau (all of them) were proven false.
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

Oh really? How so?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/17 23:28:26


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Oh good. Another image with no provenance. :-/

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator





Spoletta wrote:
Guys the rumors about Tau (all of them) were proven false.


To be fair, from what I have seen so far not everything Tau related is fake. The initial leak about Crisis Suit points being around 30 ppm came from the same source that gave all the Marine leaks as well. This source is apparently highly reputable and seems to be accepted without too much salt. The later ones (notably the Stormsurge datasheet) are coming from a source that people are now saying fabricated these pics.

So, unless we have evidence that the initial source also lied and fabricated everything (something which I have seen no evidence for yet), at the very least the Crisis and Farsight points drops seem to be accurate. With that in mind, I don't think we can rule out that the points adjustments we have seen as fake.

The rumors about Tau (all of them) have NOT been proven false, certain elements of them have been claimed (with some potential evidence) to be faked, while others have not. Unless there is evidence online somewhere I have not seen that proves every single leak we have seen thus far to be false.

Mobile Assault Cadre: 9,500 points (3,200 points fully painted)

Genestealer Cult 1228 points


849 points/ 15 SWC 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Spoletta wrote:
Guys the rumors about Tau (all of them) were proven false.


Where's the proof? We see images, and people claiming these images are fake. That's not definitive proof.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





 GI_Redshirt wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Guys the rumors about Tau (all of them) were proven false.


To be fair, from what I have seen so far not everything Tau related is fake. The initial leak about Crisis Suit points being around 30 ppm came from the same source that gave all the Marine leaks as well. This source is apparently highly reputable and seems to be accepted without too much salt. The later ones (notably the Stormsurge datasheet) are coming from a source that people are now saying fabricated these pics.

So, unless we have evidence that the initial source also lied and fabricated everything (something which I have seen no evidence for yet), at the very least the Crisis and Farsight points drops seem to be accurate. With that in mind, I don't think we can rule out that the points adjustments we have seen as fake.

The rumors about Tau (all of them) have NOT been proven false, certain elements of them have been claimed (with some potential evidence) to be faked, while others have not. Unless there is evidence online somewhere I have not seen that proves every single leak we have seen thus far to be false.


Yeah sorry, i should have specified that i meant the Tau leaks outside the first batch of leaks. Those are highly likely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Guys the rumors about Tau (all of them) were proven false.


Where's the proof? We see images, and people claiming these images are fake. That's not definitive proof.


The same person who posted those Tau images also posted this:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/17 23:58:47


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Wait, do you mean on this forum, or elsewhere?
Because you posted the thing about the Stormsurge, some other guy posted the thing about the drones and someone else posted that joke image.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/18 00:06:24


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




Pretty sure CA doesn't use codex colors so anything blue is probably fake.


 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine



Ottawa

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Guys the rumors about Tau (all of them) were proven false.


Where's the proof? We see images, and people claiming these images are fake. That's not definitive proof.


According to the thread they originated from on B&C: Yep those are 100% fake. The guy who made those sent this picture to our local tau community. He intended to make a joke for them. So i'm sorry i posted those here. Though those about space marines aren't made by him, so those can be true.
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






The weapon profile one looks off though
   
Made in mx
Fresh-Faced New User




A lot of talk about tau, but what about pts changes to Chaos space marines, is there any info yet?, they really need pts adjustments in a lot of stuff.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






quzzaq wrote:
A lot of talk about tau, but what about pts changes to Chaos space marines, is there any info yet?, they really need pts adjustments in a lot of stuff.


*agrees in dust*

pls gw give my rubicks cubes a points drop so I can buy more of them.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Boosting Space Marine Biker





the_scotsman wrote:
quzzaq wrote:
A lot of talk about tau, but what about pts changes to Chaos space marines, is there any info yet?, they really need pts adjustments in a lot of stuff.


*agrees in dust*

pls gw give my rubicks cubes a points drop so I can buy more of them.


they really shouldn't cost 250+ points for 6 with boltguns, 2 with flamers, 1 with cannon, and an icon of flame.

they should be at least cheaper than thirty tzaangors with an icon and brayherd.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Honestly, the things I'm really wanting to know any changes about are...

Wraithknight
Corvus Blackstar
Dreadnoughts
harlequin neuro disruptor
Haywire (harlequin)
Ravenwing bike/speeder changes
   
 
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