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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




There was a few rumors popping up for a Black Legion codex to be fair, and I do believe one of those sources was supposed to be reliable.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator




The Void

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Because it’s not a mechanic they want in 8th, seemingly. Old rule from old ruleset not being in new ruleset is a choice the designers made.


It was a bad choice. They took away the rules that made landraiders and terminators viable, and now nobody uses them. Same with...75% of other marine units. I'm amazed they aren't doing anything due to greed alone. Marines aren't selling anywhere near what they could be.

Uh Land Raiders weren't ever viable in the first place, and honestly this is the first edition I've seen where Terminators were even remotely durable.


When did you start playing? Land Raider Rush was a staple marine list in 5th ed. Back when Land Raiders cost ~250pts. And, ya know, had assault ramps. We also had multiple armies that could field viable wing lists. Terminators have lost a lot of relative durability vs common threats compared to past editions. And have lost most of their relative offensive power.

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Indeed, Land Raiders & Termies were pretty solid in 5th.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Because it’s not a mechanic they want in 8th, seemingly. Old rule from old ruleset not being in new ruleset is a choice the designers made.


It was a bad choice. They took away the rules that made landraiders and terminators viable, and now nobody uses them. Same with...75% of other marine units. I'm amazed they aren't doing anything due to greed alone. Marines aren't selling anywhere near what they could be.

Uh Land Raiders weren't ever viable in the first place, and honestly this is the first edition I've seen where Terminators were even remotely durable.


When did you start playing? Land Raider Rush was a staple marine list in 5th ed. Back when Land Raiders cost ~250pts. And, ya know, had assault ramps. We also had multiple armies that could field viable wing lists. Terminators have lost a lot of relative durability vs common threats compared to past editions. And have lost most of their relative offensive power.

I started playing in 4th, and 5th made them mediocre, not good.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator




The Void

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Because it’s not a mechanic they want in 8th, seemingly. Old rule from old ruleset not being in new ruleset is a choice the designers made.


It was a bad choice. They took away the rules that made landraiders and terminators viable, and now nobody uses them. Same with...75% of other marine units. I'm amazed they aren't doing anything due to greed alone. Marines aren't selling anywhere near what they could be.

Uh Land Raiders weren't ever viable in the first place, and honestly this is the first edition I've seen where Terminators were even remotely durable.


When did you start playing? Land Raider Rush was a staple marine list in 5th ed. Back when Land Raiders cost ~250pts. And, ya know, had assault ramps. We also had multiple armies that could field viable wing lists. Terminators have lost a lot of relative durability vs common threats compared to past editions. And have lost most of their relative offensive power.

I started playing in 4th, and 5th made them mediocre, not good.


Okay bro, we can call it whatever you want. I don't remember ever seeing a landraider fielded in 4th, but i wasn't following the meta much then. But that's not the point. In 5th, people fielded land raiders regularly and it worked. They were seen in tournament lists too. And now they aren't.

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Because it’s not a mechanic they want in 8th, seemingly. Old rule from old ruleset not being in new ruleset is a choice the designers made.


It was a bad choice. They took away the rules that made landraiders and terminators viable, and now nobody uses them. Same with...75% of other marine units. I'm amazed they aren't doing anything due to greed alone. Marines aren't selling anywhere near what they could be.

Uh Land Raiders weren't ever viable in the first place, and honestly this is the first edition I've seen where Terminators were even remotely durable.


When did you start playing? Land Raider Rush was a staple marine list in 5th ed. Back when Land Raiders cost ~250pts. And, ya know, had assault ramps. We also had multiple armies that could field viable wing lists. Terminators have lost a lot of relative durability vs common threats compared to past editions. And have lost most of their relative offensive power.


I remember when Avatars of Khaine got Exarch powers and were immune to certain weapons and Marines were toughness 3.........

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator




The Void

 Mr Morden wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Because it’s not a mechanic they want in 8th, seemingly. Old rule from old ruleset not being in new ruleset is a choice the designers made.


It was a bad choice. They took away the rules that made landraiders and terminators viable, and now nobody uses them. Same with...75% of other marine units. I'm amazed they aren't doing anything due to greed alone. Marines aren't selling anywhere near what they could be.

Uh Land Raiders weren't ever viable in the first place, and honestly this is the first edition I've seen where Terminators were even remotely durable.


When did you start playing? Land Raider Rush was a staple marine list in 5th ed. Back when Land Raiders cost ~250pts. And, ya know, had assault ramps. We also had multiple armies that could field viable wing lists. Terminators have lost a lot of relative durability vs common threats compared to past editions. And have lost most of their relative offensive power.


I remember when Avatars of Khaine got Exarch powers and were immune to certain weapons and Marines were toughness 3.........


I remember when people on here could make an argument without being disingenuous.

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Now that...I'm not buying.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator




The Void

 Elbows wrote:
Now that...I'm not buying.


Yeah, you're right. I broke the suspension of disbelief on that one >_>

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Because it’s not a mechanic they want in 8th, seemingly. Old rule from old ruleset not being in new ruleset is a choice the designers made.


It was a bad choice. They took away the rules that made landraiders and terminators viable, and now nobody uses them. Same with...75% of other marine units. I'm amazed they aren't doing anything due to greed alone. Marines aren't selling anywhere near what they could be.

Uh Land Raiders weren't ever viable in the first place, and honestly this is the first edition I've seen where Terminators were even remotely durable.


When did you start playing? Land Raider Rush was a staple marine list in 5th ed. Back when Land Raiders cost ~250pts. And, ya know, had assault ramps. We also had multiple armies that could field viable wing lists. Terminators have lost a lot of relative durability vs common threats compared to past editions. And have lost most of their relative offensive power.

I started playing in 4th, and 5th made them mediocre, not good.


Okay bro, we can call it whatever you want. I don't remember ever seeing a landraider fielded in 4th, but i wasn't following the meta much then. But that's not the point. In 5th, people fielded land raiders regularly and it worked. They were seen in tournament lists too. And now they aren't.

They really weren't. People were just excited that their Land Raider didn't die to a stiff breeze so everyone wanted to bust out their models.

They weren't great. You need to stop looking through them rose tinted glasses you got on.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






Terminators in second edition were where it was at. Bring them back.

My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




These rumors point to a change in how toughness and saves are pointed. Throughout this edition anything T7+ or 2+/3+ has been overcosted, this CA could be an edition-wide adjustment to that flaw.

Hopefully this means cheaper vehicles, MEK, TEK, and daemons.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator




The Void

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Because it’s not a mechanic they want in 8th, seemingly. Old rule from old ruleset not being in new ruleset is a choice the designers made.


It was a bad choice. They took away the rules that made landraiders and terminators viable, and now nobody uses them. Same with...75% of other marine units. I'm amazed they aren't doing anything due to greed alone. Marines aren't selling anywhere near what they could be.

Uh Land Raiders weren't ever viable in the first place, and honestly this is the first edition I've seen where Terminators were even remotely durable.


When did you start playing? Land Raider Rush was a staple marine list in 5th ed. Back when Land Raiders cost ~250pts. And, ya know, had assault ramps. We also had multiple armies that could field viable wing lists. Terminators have lost a lot of relative durability vs common threats compared to past editions. And have lost most of their relative offensive power.

I started playing in 4th, and 5th made them mediocre, not good.


Okay bro, we can call it whatever you want. I don't remember ever seeing a landraider fielded in 4th, but i wasn't following the meta much then. But that's not the point. In 5th, people fielded land raiders regularly and it worked. They were seen in tournament lists too. And now they aren't.

They really weren't. People were just excited that their Land Raider didn't die to a stiff breeze so everyone wanted to bust out their models.

They weren't great. You need to stop looking through them rose tinted glasses you got on.


I never argued that they were great. I argued that they were viable, and that they were used. They weren't the top of the meta, but they were a solid 'B' list from any marine codex except Chaos (due to lack of hammer+shield assault terminators.) And now they have gotten worse.

Always 1 on the crazed roll. 
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





4th Obelisk On The Right

I started in 3rd and Land Raiders have only ever been something you take because you liked the model not because you thought it would help you win. But my opinion might be skewed because I played Tau from 3rd to middle 5th and then Necrons from 6th to 7th. However, I've faced a lot of Land Raiders, a lot of terminators and both have never been viable from my perspective on the other side of the table.

I've also have had Dark Angels from 3rd to 8th. So everytime I see Land Raiders and Terminators lined up against me I'd feel a second of doubt before I remember that those things usually fail to make it to 6th turns.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/18 23:34:00


 
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Land Raiders not viable in 5th? feth me, I must've hallucinated all of those Redeemers you couldn't move for and the TH/SS Termies contained within...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/18 23:45:18



Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think the viability of Land Raiders in past editions can certainly be made into its own thread in another subforum.

As for CA rumors, I'm a bit sad that the Tau ones ended up being debunked. Those looked fun.

Either way, we've still got like a month before any of this comes out anyway.
   
Made in gb
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster





London, UK

I'd like to see some changes to soup and cheapo units that generate CP's, but not necessarily in price increases.

It's the mechanic that needs fixing. Maybe link CP's generated to points invested in a battalion? Make CP's only affect certain keywords. I'm not sure how to handle it, but full elite armies seem to be handicapped. But, as it's a core mechanic, perhaps that's too far of a change.

It just seems weird for large god machines and/or the finest soldiers in the Imperium to need 200pts of IG to help them out.
   
Made in ca
Nimble Skeleton Charioteer





Canada

Anyone heard anything about Nids?

I've read a while ago that most monsters/unpopular units might get a point drop, but don't remember where that came from and if it's reliable.

Fantasy armies - Retired (Tomb Kings, Vampires, Empire, Chaos Warriors/Daemons, Dark Elves)

Tyranids army - Ever evolving, but about 10k pts
Custodes - 3,500pts (Fully painted yay!)
Thousand Sons - 4,000 pts
Eldar - 3,000pts 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade





 Skywave wrote:
Anyone heard anything about Nids?

I've read a while ago that most monsters/unpopular units might get a point drop, but don't remember where that came from and if it's reliable.


That'd be really nice, but a few other slight changes to some might help. Trygons and Mawlocs being T6, while Carnifexes are T7 bothers me. They need to go up. And this is going to sounds controversial, but I believe everything that provides synapse should get at least a 5+ invuln if it doesn't already have one.

PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 dan2026 wrote:
Slagmar wrote:
With a rumored new Keeper of Secrets coming I'm hoping to see a points drop with the greater demons. Such nice models yet they hardly see a competitive table. I would love to get mine out of the display case and into a tourney but that's not gonna happen at their current points and rules.


Agreed.
Each greater daemon probably needs at least a 50 point drop if not more.


I'd personally prefer the Greater Daemons to be stat buff to be effectively a Questoris Knight equivalent. But I know CA isn't for stat bumps.

(But seriously, compare the Axe Bloodthrister to a Knight Gallant and weep)
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




If you want to make comparisons in the Daemon book and be sad about it, compare a Screamer to a Shining Spear.

What do you think a point of WS, a Shuriken Catapult, the Laser Lance shooting attack, auto 6 advance, a 3+ armor save, half a dozen incredible strategems, access to Ynnari nonsense and way better Psychic shenanigans should cost?

Did you guess zero points? Because a Screamer is just a Shining Spear without all of that and costs the exact same.
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





Actually, I really don't know how they are going to balance this. Let's say they reduce the basic space marines by 1 pt, or even 2, then they need to literally tweak almost every base troop choice relative to space marine?

Necrons, nids, all loyalist and CSM troop choices, Eldar? Sisters ? Because relative to a basic space amrine that costs say 11 points, a lot of troop choices then all need to be changed.

Also, what about cult marines? What about sternguard and chosen? What about havocs, devastators, assault marines (chaos or loyalist).

At this point, they are literally changing the points for tons of units across troop, FA, heavy and elite choices already. If they only reduce the points of space marines (csm and loyalist) of the basic troop choice. Then a lot of other things in other slots, as well as other factions then all start looking expensive.

A ton of stuff are all basically balanced around the basic 13 point troop choice space marine. Changing that basic space marine involves changing the points of a ton of other stuff or at least considering it. Everything from havocs, assault marines, devastators, chosen, sternguard, cult marines, other faction troop choices all need to be reconsidered and balanced.

Basically, do you have to draw a line in the sand to say, all these are below shouldn't be reduced in cost, they may even need to be increased because they are "horde units" (like orcs, cultists, conscripts, infantry) and all these above this line are candidates for point reductions (necron warriors, all marines, sisters of battle? etc etc). And if you draw this line, then I don't know where eldar fit in here either because I don't play eldar.
   
Made in ca
Nimble Skeleton Charioteer





Canada

 Carnikang wrote:
 Skywave wrote:
Anyone heard anything about Nids?

I've read a while ago that most monsters/unpopular units might get a point drop, but don't remember where that came from and if it's reliable.


That'd be really nice, but a few other slight changes to some might help. Trygons and Mawlocs being T6, while Carnifexes are T7 bothers me. They need to go up. And this is going to sounds controversial, but I believe everything that provides synapse should get at least a 5+ invuln if it doesn't already have one.


Oh there's a lots of stuff that could need major fixing and redesign, but at a minimum I would settle for a meaningfull points drop

Why the Toxicrene does not have a -1 to be hit (even just for himself, no need for an aura as we got that covered already), or why big fighty monster have so poor WS (that degrade) and usually low attacks. The Maleceptor is a relatively bad psyker too with its poor psychic overload ability. We could go on and on :p

Fantasy armies - Retired (Tomb Kings, Vampires, Empire, Chaos Warriors/Daemons, Dark Elves)

Tyranids army - Ever evolving, but about 10k pts
Custodes - 3,500pts (Fully painted yay!)
Thousand Sons - 4,000 pts
Eldar - 3,000pts 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Loafing wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:
Slagmar wrote:
With a rumored new Keeper of Secrets coming I'm hoping to see a points drop with the greater demons. Such nice models yet they hardly see a competitive table. I would love to get mine out of the display case and into a tourney but that's not gonna happen at their current points and rules.


Agreed.
Each greater daemon probably needs at least a 50 point drop if not more.


I'd personally prefer the Greater Daemons to be stat buff to be effectively a Questoris Knight equivalent. But I know CA isn't for stat bumps.

(But seriously, compare the Axe Bloodthrister to a Knight Gallant and weep)


Ditto. Funny how much there's complaining about price of 40k armies yet also people are glamouring for point drops rather than ability buffs which has effect of making 40k even more of an expensive game. Plus makes manouvering less and less meaningful...

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




Eldenfirefly wrote:
Actually, I really don't know how they are going to balance this. Let's say they reduce the basic space marines by 1 pt, or even 2, then they need to literally tweak almost every base troop choice relative to space marine?

Necrons, nids, all loyalist and CSM troop choices, Eldar? Sisters ? Because relative to a basic space amrine that costs say 11 points, a lot of troop choices then all need to be changed.

Also, what about cult marines? What about sternguard and chosen? What about havocs, devastators, assault marines (chaos or loyalist).

At this point, they are literally changing the points for tons of units across troop, FA, heavy and elite choices already. If they only reduce the points of space marines (csm and loyalist) of the basic troop choice. Then a lot of other things in other slots, as well as other factions then all start looking expensive.

A ton of stuff are all basically balanced around the basic 13 point troop choice space marine. Changing that basic space marine involves changing the points of a ton of other stuff or at least considering it. Everything from havocs, assault marines, devastators, chosen, sternguard, cult marines, other faction troop choices all need to be reconsidered and balanced.

Basically, do you have to draw a line in the sand to say, all these are below shouldn't be reduced in cost, they may even need to be increased because they are "horde units" (like orcs, cultists, conscripts, infantry) and all these above this line are candidates for point reductions (necron warriors, all marines, sisters of battle? etc etc). And if you draw this line, then I don't know where eldar fit in here either because I don't play eldar.


I would say that things that use the body of a space marine tactical, but aren't a space marine tactical, don't necessarily need to change just because Tacs go down a bit. Devs/Havocs/Chose/Sternguard/etc are all so vastly different from each other that honestly it doesn't make any sense to pair them up just because the chassis are the same. If those units are good at their battlefield role for the cost(they're not but if they were) then they're going to get taken. In fact, I don't actually think there's anything special really about tactical marines in regards to balance(except maybe against the suspiciously similar SoB Battle sister squad). Tacticals suck for their cost, so they should go down. That has no affect on any other unit in the game(again, except for MAYBE battle sister squads) until they go down TOO much and become op.

Think about it this way, you're not gonna drop the cost of a predator every time the rhino goes down are you? Or drop the Hemlock because the Crimson Hunter comes down?

Even if we are talking Battle Sister Vs Tactical marines, which are VERY similar units(MUCH more similar than Tacs and Sternguard or Tacs and Devastators); Battle sisters are currently the better value per point so you could drop tacticals down to 12 and it would just put them on even footing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 06:51:49



 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




All faction characters get cheaper - Ghazghkull goes up
Orks get a counter to minus hit modifiers, and pay for it as a result - minus hit modifiers go away
No army pays for tactics+stratagems (with the rumor other factions will also increase in points) - Ork Boyz do, other factions still don't (minus chaos cultists)

Is this looking about right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 07:03:49


 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





EDITED

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 07:28:07


 
   
Made in ch
Regular Dakkanaut




I'd be happy if the LAND RAIDER COULD ALSO DISENGAGE AND SHOOT (only the loyal one, don't give a damn about the traitors).
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Why would the loyalist land raider get that, but not the chaos one? That makes no sense.

No vehicles should be able to be locked into combat by any infantry, period.

Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in gb
Student Curious About Xenos




Norn Iron

tneva82 wrote:
Loafing wrote:
I'd personally prefer the Greater Daemons to be stat buff to be effectively a Questoris Knight equivalent. But I know CA isn't for stat bumps.

(But seriously, compare the Axe Bloodthrister to a Knight Gallant and weep)


Ditto. Funny how much there's complaining about price of 40k armies yet also people are glamouring for point drops rather than ability buffs which has effect of making 40k even more of an expensive game. Plus makes manouvering less and less meaningful...

Yeah, I play Necrons mainly and I'd much prefer my models to perform better with some rules changes rather than just bringing the points down and needing more of them on the table. Though as mentioned above GW would probably prefer to make changes like that in a new codex rather than in CA.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 12:07:20


Gareth 
   
 
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